Menopausal Frozen Shoulder

So sorry Anna to hear you have had problems too with frozen shoulder. I am too scared to go on full HRT; had hysterectomy but kept ovaries that was 4 year ago. Menopause starred around 6 years ago so ovaries will be gradually producing less hormone, using topical estriol due to scat tissue from pelvic floor repairs but that was only a very small amount directed at site of scar tissue.

Hope you recover soon from your surgery so good to hear things are improving, keep us all updated.

Phyl x☺

I wouldn't be scared about HRT - especially as, after a hysterectomy, you'd only need eostrogen.  Read the NICE guidelines (Google NICE hrt benefits and risks) - you'll find the the risks are minimal anyway - but especially for eostrogen only and even less risks when using patches, rather than tablets.

I'm convinced that (while probably not the only cause), lack of eostrogen can be a trigger for frozen shoulder.

Thank you for your reply Maria, will look up the NICE site, I talk to lots of women and it does seem that everyone has pain in one area or another after hormones start to deplete, and those who have repeatative jobs more lightly to suffer in those particular areas.

Never used contraceptive hormones, although did use a coil. Had to use thyroxine for under active thyroid, had no choice I blew up like a balloon after 4th child, has always been a bit on the lean side as did regular swimming and hill walking. That was the first pregnancy that I blew up big and couldn't shift the weight, almost starved myself as I couldn't stand the breathlessness. My mum spotted the swollen neck and sent me back to GP to request thyroid check and right enough I was grossly under active.

However bowel, and osophagus cancer in family and 21 year old son died of heart seizure with no apparent cause, Gran always said the males in the film a died young due to weak hearts so never liked the idea of using hormones but do understand that sometimes things so bad it's worth taking the chance.

Thanks again for positive reply,

Phyl x

Meant 'males in the family dies young due to heart failure' but none nearly as young as my son.

I can understand reluctance - especially after so many conflicting scare stories over the years.  Some lucky women seem to cope OK with the menopausal symptoms, but not me!  The cancer risks seem to be specifically for breast and not other cancers and (quote from NICE) "Oestrogen-only HRT causes little or no change in the risk of breast cancer."  

As for heart disease (quote from NICE) "HRT does not affect your risk of dying from cardiovascular disease" and for strokes and (blood clots) "HRT tablets (but not patches or gels) slightly raise the risk of stroke."

I'm on eostrogen only patches - so for me, I believe the risks are minimal and outweighed by the benefits.  Lack of sleep due to night sweats (not to mention the frozen shoulder) was playing havoc with my immume systen and general physical and mental health, which I'm sure has it;s own risks  Everyone needs to make their own choice (armed with as many facts as they can find) but my quality of life has been much improved by HRT.  

Good luck, whatever you decide.

Thanks Marie very informative, I do get bad hot flushes now and again, hardly bothered me when I could go to gym, but since pelvic floor repair very limited what I can do at gym and flusher really bad . So think I'll look into HRT

Phyl x

It must have been heartbreaking to lose your son so young.  Maybe more likely to be some sort of congenital problem, rather that the kind of heart disease suffered by older people, caused by lifestyle or other external causes.  Either way, it doesn't make it any easier to bear and my heart goes out to you. x

Thank you Maria, he died about 16 years ago, his cousin started taking black outs and eventually was diagnosed with epileptic fits which didn't start till around late teens early twenty. My maternal grandfather was diagnosed with narrow tubes in the lungs when being checked for army during the war ( he ended up as an army chef). My son himself had a narrow bowel when he was born and showed up when he had a hernia, so had surgery as a baby and had the bowel stretched. So I often wonder if it was just narrow tubes or a grand mal seizure and if he would have been epileptic like his cousin if he had survived. Post mortem said all organs were healthy and bloods were clean so no drugs or alcohol found and they said it was a failure of the signal from the brain to the heart, he had a tiny mark on his forehead where he had fell in the snow on the way home but he seemed fine before going to bed, was found next day on floor of his room. We all had heart tests and the older adults had treadmill tests for arythmia but nothing showed up.

It is a worry as I know their are lots on heart conditions that they can't always diagnose.

Anyway they reckon unlikely to happen again to any of the others.

Phyl x

Thank you x will do 😀

Hi Maria,

At GP yesterday and definitely not frozen shoulder, just as well I have managed to do exercises as that has helped to keep it mobile and a little lesx stiff than it otherwise would have been.

She has given me a form for referal to physio, she reckons that i probably initially caused damage when i banged it against a doorway, ( my co-ordination has not been so good these days) and repitition at work is putting strain on joint leading to inflamatory condition.

A huge relief, so just have to wait now for physio,eanwhile will have to ask work for some time on self scan to give my arm rest, a bit apprehensive as I can not stand for too long on my feet due to pelvic floor repair.

She has given me co-codemoil for pain relief. So hoping this helps.

Thank you again for your help and advise will keep in mind if my condition eorsens and my shoulder completely freezes .

Take care,

Phyl x☺

This is exactly how a frozen shoulder begins. You may be one of the rare people on this forum who has true FS. The right age and the right onset. One question can you sleep on the painful shoulder?

Hi ..it's been now about 8 months (winter)ago when my frozen shoulder was in the unbearable painfully phase..when spring arrived 5 months ago I could live without the painkillers..I was more stiff than pain...so I stopped using the meds..

Now in summer I am in no pain and sloooooowly gaining my ROM..now and again I feel a bit of pain...but more like a severe discomfort then I see a physio..and sleeping on my FS is okayish as I naturally sleep on my right side...sometimes I get tht discomfort but not pain.....so I think I'm in the thawing phase..but it's a definate hormonal issue for me in my opinion..xoxox

I think there is a hormone connection and quite possibly hypothyroidism as well.

Frozen shoulder has nothing to do with menopause, it is unfortunate in that they happen at the same time in life and so menopause gets the blame. Non Caucasians have menopause but I believe frozen shoulders are unheard of.

FS is genetic handed down from the Vikings. Where their postcedents have gone frozen shoulders, dupuytrens and fibrotomas appears.

How can you be so sure???Not even doctors are able to know the connection.

I can only make an informed analysis for me personally, on the facts as I see them. Lack of oestrogen effects ligaments, I menopsused very quickly at 40 and had FS symptoms within the year, my mother and grandmother both menopaused early and quickly, both have suffered with frozen shoulders during / after their menopause. My Physio therapist has seen many women in the same position. Yes it could be genetic but why does it follow so quickly within years of a quick menopause??

I have to agree.  More general aching joints, skin thinning, etc, are accepted physical side effects of menopause.  Oestogen plays a role in maintaining collagen, which my physiotherapist told me the shoulder capsule is made up of.  During meopause, oestogen levels can fluctuate wildly, before dropping off.  I'm personally convinced that, while it may not be the only factor, this has some sort of role to play for women in this age group.  I'm not aware of any instances of frozen shoulder in my own family, so no obvious genetic link here.

Completely agree that it's lack of hormones and to do with college levels.

X

Meant 'collagen ' levels.

Many doctors do know the relationship but it seems not the administering Docs for the patients here. If you read back on this forum and others there are about 40 causes of frozen shoulder. If caused by oestrogen deficiency or hormones you must ask why no FS after 60 years when I would think there would be an acceleration of hormonal loss.

Hi Maria, so why not frozen knees,hips or wrists?

Hi frozen stiff,

I am guessing but I think that there is an indirect link.

I saw my physio yesterday and although I don't gave full frozen shoulder she reckons I could have had I not been doing exercises for frozen shoulder that kept my joint loose. I have impingement. Due to injury and inflammation and then repetitive nature of my work. If I hadn't kept if loose would have been much worse.

Definitely much harder and longer to heal from injury due to lack of hormones (depleting collegen and weaker ligaments. When we injure ourselves when young our bodies seem to cope so much better and we get over things douch quicker.

Phyl x?

Let your Physio know that if you are going to have a frozen shoulder it will come no matter what you do. Exercising will not stop it, it is a genetic disease and nothing to do with resting it in a sling either.

Physio reckons I should be sorted in 6-8 weeks if outcome is good.

Trying to be positive and hoping she is right, she said that she had similar problem when working checkouts in the past and reckons I have a good range of motion.

Thank you for your concern but really hoping not frozen shoulder.

Phyl x

Because is not a sudden drop of hormones at 60, you are way over your menopause years. In few cases still happen.

We have fluctuating hormones of our lives, but mainly, before and after menopause.

They are cases of frozen hips, wrists, ankles if you research.

I have a frozen hip, if you go and read all the treads in this website.

I meant to say all our lives.

Are you also suffering of frozen shoulder???

A frozen hip would suggest that it will freeze, stay frozen for a stage and recover fully. Therefore if you read up on the histology you will see that the joint tissue in the hip does not change as it does in FS or DuPuytrens. Most stiff hips in the 50s and over are early osteoarthritis. Google the above and you will find some scientific articles.

I'm not saying by far the onset of pain in the hips would be called frozen hips. As my problem began with the shoulders soon after both my hips started experiencing pain like the shoulders. Remember my problems started by a mere decrease in mg dosage just a couple months thereafter and progressed rapidly to unable to fully function once meds were stopped only a couple months of not taking HR meds.

Once I accidentally stumbled up on this site as I'd never heard of such thing in my life called frozen shoulder, it intrigued me to come see what was if any the same problems I was having. After reading all the threads contained in this post I started taking my meds again. A few days after I noticed my right shoulder was not near as bad and my hips were not bothering me much either. But my left shoulder would not ease up in discomfort.

I dug further finding that many problems can present them self's when we woman (some not all) experience a hormonal imbalance either due to menopause, partial hysterectomies full hysterectomies, or problems with our thyroids. If our estrogen level tilt either way a problem can show up, no matter the age, even after menopause. I'll be seeing a specialist in morning and will discuss all I've read about as well as experienced.

Hello, after suffering from frozen hip for over 4 years after my onsetvof menopause almost at the same time.

In the last 6 months beside my frozen hip I feel almost my both hips feel like heavy, almost I can hardly stand up for more then teonhours, this heavy, robotic feeling in both hips almost like they are out of energy.

I really believe menopause brought me an array of diferent feelings and discomfort to the point of having to lay down for part of my day.

Im having other tests done but Inprobably will end up taking some HRT.

Just wondering what are the meds or vitamis you are mentioning here that you were lacking and as soon as you took them make you feel better.

You mention a lack of magnesium if I understood right.

Thanks a lot for all this info and hopefully we can feel better pretty soon.

My very best wishes to you!!!!

I had all sorts of test MRI, CT scan, xrays, bone scans and none of them show any sign of ostheoarthritis, or any other condition. My problem was frozen hip, problem with the soft tissue any other kind of damage was detected, is the reason why doctors couldnt come to a conclusion, until finally took varios things in to consideration to diagnose me with frozen hip or adhesive capsulitis of the hip.

The meds I speak of is premarin. I saw gyn today and spoke with him of my onset of problems, the problems, my internet findings, my research, what happen when I started back on my HR meds. He stated yes lack of estrogen can cause an inbalance in hormones in ones body and for some we do need to be on HR med to keep this inbalance in check at all times.

He also stated that being on the meds I am on can cause some other problems like artery blockage, strock etc... He stated that lack of estrogen or homonal inbalance can cause bad bone cells to eat away at good bone cells causing tissue breakdown and or bonespeer growth where there has never been any prior damage ie... shoulders.

Because I had a DVT in 2013 which lead to a pulminary embolisium is the reasons why they want me off the meds. I asked him how am I to have any kind of quality of life if I am suffering in joint pain of hips and shoulders and what was the next problems I was going to have due to hormonal inbalance! He stated there are other drugs that I can take to help reduce, end or just stop them dead in their tracts before they become sytomatic.

They are scheduling me an appoint. to have a bone density test done. So I reckon I am goin to be put through the ringer (many diff tests) before they find out which drugs will be better suited for me. Right now he put me on something called Risedronate Tablets (RIS e DROE nate). This drug is used to treat Paget's Disease and or put off or treat soft, brittle bones (osteoporosis). 

Me I can't figure how they can put me on something not really know what the exact problem is until they have a final diagnosis. But he too wants me off the premarin. I don't like the possible side effects of this new drug (they scare me more than Prearin). Plenty to read and learn more about.

Not sure which country you are in - I'm assuming it is possibly the US?  In the UK, new guidelines have been produced on the prescribing of HRT by GPs.  Quote from the current NICE (National Institute for Health and Care Excellence guidelines) based on studying all the latest evidence and discounting flawed studies:

"HRT tablets (but not patches or gels) are linked with a higher risk of developing a blood clot"

If you are worried about blood clots, ask to have HRT as a patch (or gel), rather than a tablet.  Google NICE HRT risks and benefits for more information.

 

Thanks for all your info, is really appreciated. I will look in to going back to hormone therapie . I thing is my main problem beside my frozen hip and joint pain.

Thanks a lot and my best wishes to you.!!!

Yes Maria your assumption is correct I'm in the US. Let me start of by saying thank you for the info and I have googled it, and will be doing more reading. However I must say I had never thought that taking HR meds would lead to blood clotting, no one ever told me this up until recently. So the concern of blood clotting is not mine, but rests solely on the Drs who treat me.

ALL I know is when I was reduced in HR meds is when my problems started and when the meds were completely stopped is when the symptoms worsened to the point of no being able move arms without sever pain FS and pain of my hips. These areas are my only problems and have never had injury to them. I had discussed this with my PC dr and the otho dr, both agree to a point as does the gyn about the hormonal imbalance being the cause of onset problems. But it is the gyn dr that is moving forward to do more testing to find the right drugs to prescribe to me to stop this from reoccurring when taken back off the HR meds (pills).

I will finish reading all I have found on the patches and gels ya told me about, then discuss with the dr about possibly changing to them. However the change over may not be as simple as just changing it is the call of the insurance companies here of whether or not to cover the cost. If they will not cover the cost then I'd have to pay out of pocket. If that cost is to high then I will not be able to do it.

Hi Angelscry, I hope you are doing much better!

Have you ever tried bio-identical hormones?  Perhaps they might work better for you but of course check with your doctor first to be sure.