Menopause

Hi Natacha:

I read your comment and have been thinking about over the last few days.  I know this wasn't the main point of your response to Steffani and I applaud the supportive note to her.  But I was struck by your comment about very few men being able to deal with their spouses, girlfriends, etc. and their menopause.  

My wife is going through peri menopause at the moment and has a burgeoning OCD issue as well.  I'm witnessing 'the change" first hand.  And you're right it's very difficult to deal with.  I'm having a very hard time dealing with it.  My wife has told me her feelings of being lost, being numb, feeling desparate.  Compounding this are the issues of our life, raising a 6 year old son, the financial pressures of life in NYC, living in cramped quarters, etc.  I feel guilty as all get out for my part in the struggle and I've worked so hard to make things better.  With all we have going on apart from the peri menopause that issue has gotten obscured and doesn't ever get addressed.  

What I'm struggling with is the manifestation of this change.  The constant berating and belittling, the constant harassment.  As i'm writing this we haven't made love in 10 months.  Before this it was a struggle to have intimacy on a bi-monthly basis.  I've been sleeping on the couch for 2 1/2 years.  My wife literally wants nothing at all to do with me.  She has villanized me for our situation.  And to be sure I'm to blame for part of it.  But there is an unspoken component of the tension and that is the changes my wife is going through.  In february I began work with a zen-darma certified buddhist priest to help me not react when I'm being attacked and channel love, empathy, compassion and understanding.  And I gladly do this work because it makes me a better man.  My wife has only poked fun at my efforts.  It's never come back to me. 

i'm at the end of my rope in this marriage.  My son has replaced me in the bed.  I'm on the couch.  I've been subjected incredible berating.  My wife told me i need a girlfriend.  She told my sister that she'd rather go out with her girlfriends because they don't care what she looks like.  

I feel bad that I am one of those men who can't deal with the menopause.  But I don't feel like i have any choice but to make a move.  It's no longer about me.  It's about giving my son a positive role model.  He only sees his dad getting nipped at and not loved.  He sees that he gets away with sleeping on our bed while I sleep on the couch.  Something has to give.  

I'm sorry to call you out and ive tried to be respectful in my response.  But I did feel the need to respond.  Thanks, Michael  

Oh dear you really have it bad. I know many women who do that to their spouses.

Believe me I am not one of them. On the contrary i never took it out on my partner. He was what made me happy. It was comforting when we saw each other. It was escaping reality and submerging into a world of my own as a woman. Sex was a must to me. When I went through the tough period of peri I was alone, my marriage had collapsed long before my peri kicked in. The death of my son was what gave me strength to leave a man that was cheating and not being there for the kids and I. After that peri kicked in and I remained alone. The man that walked out on me was the first man I loved after so many years.

He walked out without an explanation and the changes began after I told him about my health issue, that I am still sorting out.

I do know there are many supportive men or there and I do know some women go absolutely bonkers when stating their peri.

If I had a supportive husband like you I would be over the moon.

I am not one to lash out, or take my frustrations out on people, on the contrary I am always helpful and I sort myself out when not feeling right. I seek medical help, therapy.

I know there are good and bad no matter the gender and I know that women are far from saints.

But when u have been in a relationship for a while and u need the person the most and they just walk out on you it hurts.

Probably my judgement of him was blinded.

When we first met my daughter was rushed to hospital for self harming and he was with me that day. We had just started our relationship. We were about 2 months in it and when I went to the hospital he came with me and stayed until she was sectioned. He made me believe that he was the right person and gave me the ability to believe in love again.

So when my health issues began I thought he'd do the same. But I was wrong.

Maybe I brushed off things and didn't see what he was truly like. One of those things where a woman wants to be loved because she still believes in it. I always wanted someone to share life with. Maybe my choices weren't good. If I stop to think now I fall for the same type all the time. The type that is good at the beginning and the type where sex is amazing and we have fun but the type that is afraid of responsibility, Peter Pan syndrome.

I wish their were men more like you in the world. U are a good person.

Believe me I am not demanding and never asked my X to live together or I demanded from him. He always told me that when I love I love with heart and soul and that I was is easy to get on with. I was fun, a companion, his best mate.

I don't know. He had the charm and the chemistry was amazing. But the one thing that he didn't have was the courage or want to help me through. Even with his son he would be like that. Did what he had to do but told me that he wouldn't want the kid full time, he couldn't do it if something was to happen to the ex wife.

When we would go away on holidays he would barely speak to the boy, and the 11 yr old boy would act like a 5 yr old begging for attention. So he believed in his mind that he was doing the right thing by paying his dues, picking the boy up every fortnight and dumping him in front of the Xbox or sending him to his sisters. The boy cannot hold a conversation at 11. The father every 30 mins or so say to him: alright little boy?

Thinking of it he'd do the same to me. Would ask me if I was ok. We would talk but it seemed that smoking and drink, listening to music, going to the pub was his outlet.

Maybe he was the one going through menopause and not me.

Anyway, as I write I reflect and your message shows me that good man still exist and women can go psycho during their peri. I know several that left their husbands and adventured themselves trying to recap their youth.

These are usually women that have married young and did not live all they had to. Me I did it all and that why I would just like someone to share my bed and life. Doesn't have to be there 25/7 as my work takes over and so do kids. But someone to do fun things with and create memories and cuddle to.

Maybe I should stop going for the bad boys and focus on the men that are sweet.

Thanks for your words. They gave me hope.

Xx

Good morning Natacha:

Thank you for such an expedient response.  It was a most welcome note to start my day with.  I'm honored that you shared a bit of your story with me.  You've been through the wars indeed.  I'm so sorry for the hell you've been through.  My mom lost a child a child as well one day after delivering her. It has been probably the single defining moment of her life.  So I can only imagine what the experience was like for you.  My dad was in absentia after the fact as well.  He was in the Navy at the time and didn't request a hardship leave.  In fact he went on maneuvers with his ship in the Mediterranean for a few months leaving her alone to deal with the grief.  All she had were other Naval wives to support her.

Being a dad I can also empathize how extraordinarily difficult it must've been to see your daughter hurting herself.  The only thing we want to see is our children thrive unencumbered by the burdens that we carry around.  Seeing your daughter hurting herself i'm sure hurt your soul in unimaginable ways. I'm also sorry that the men you trusted and loved betrayed that trust when it was most needed. 

Your language and choice of words had me wondering if you were British.  And it was confirmed when I checked out your profile.  My wife is British as well, hailing from a tiny coastal town in Kent.  So perhaps this will ring true or at least familiar with you.  My wife has a bit of stoicism in her and in this case means that she's not one to share the difficult parts of her day.  Her belief is that she's only got 60-90 minutes with our son before night nights and doesn't want to infect that precious time with complaints about how hard her day is. To coin a British-ism, she's a "Not so bad" person when asked how she's doing.  She once told me that I know only what she tells me.  That was in response to me trying to intuit what she was thinking and feeling.  

My wife is a nanny.  And outwardly she's literally Mary Poppins.  Our son goes to a British school here in NYC.  Outwardly she's a beacon of organization and light, revered by all the other moms who always stop me in the hallway at school to tell me how wonderful my wife is.  And in those moments I'm always proud of her.  But internally she's battling this 800lb monster.  She's taken that to the next level issuing a sort of gag order that she won't indulge in recaps of her day and expects the same of me.  She doesn't want to hear about the hard parts of my day.  I've always believed in the power of conversation.  I can deal with the real, whatever that real may be.  With a gag order in place I can't showcase my talents with the power of talk so I can't ever be the supportive husband I want to be.  With my wife's other issue, OCD kicking in when the apartment appears to be a bit of a tip any possibility of connecting as a couple at days end falls away.  

We've tried couples therapy and I was a willing and eager participant in this endeavor.  But a few issues derailed the effort.  We were never reimbursed by insurance for our sessions. The lady we were seeing was also utilizing a long game approach of "Stop, pause & identify" to modify our interactions.  A more urgent strategy was needed.  And lastly my wife never developed a comfort with articulating her feelings in the presence of a counselor.  So this endeavor only lasted a year.  Shortly thereafter we were having an argument on a particular saturday morning and I said "man we need help".  She detonated on me saying that "no i'm not gonna waste $3000 on therapy when all you need to do is listen to me".  

So I fear that my marriage is beyond repair.  I'm still doing the work of not reacting for the sake of my son.  I've also eliminated sacasm from our discourse after reading the Four Agreements.  In that text I realized that I don't just hurt my wife when I'm sarcastic, I also hurt myself.  And it just doesn't help things in any productive way.  I think my sarcasm was born of not being able to process such hurtful utterances from my wife who i love. So now when the attacks happen I just have to go to that elnlightened place in myself to deal.  But this is not a healthy way to live at all.  

I haven't cheated though the choruses are getting louder and louder and my radar is now up.  I never thought nor did I ever want to be that guy.  Maybe I am that guy.  Hard to say.  But It's been so long since I've had any affection from the person I want it from the most.  And affection is not wanted from me.  At least the body language and spoken language don't suggest affection is wanted.  And it's difficult to offer it when rejection is right there.  

Natacha you sound lovely and I'm truly touched by your generosity of spirit in sharing your story with me.  Thank you.  It was nice to be labled a good person for a change instead of constantly being made to feel like a piece of crap.  

Have a great day.  

Michael xx

 

Michael, I think you should share these post with your wife. Yes, it's likely to kick off another fight, but it may not.

How long has your wife been in the US? I ask because it probably took me six years or more to accept where I was living after moving from UK to US. I am not saying this is the sole cause of the issues, but it really did not help one lil bit.

Thank u so much Michael for sharing this with me.

I hold a British passport and have been living in the U.K. for 25 years.

I am as born in Switzerland, lived in Canada for 8 yrs and I7 years in Brazil. My family still

lives there. I go every 2/3 years to visit as I am not very fond of the country.

I left Brazil after finishing uni and came for a year away and here I am after 25 yrs.

I left Brazil after the break up of a relationship and came to adventure myself.

I don't blame peri or post menopause for what I have been going through. Every woman is aware that they will have to pass through it one day. It is the same thing for women who decide to have kids. They know pregnancy can be very difficult or hey may sail through it. They same applies for peri/post menopause. Sometimes these feeling that we get are so overwhelming that they are hard to control. I was with my GP (doctor) on the phone and just broke down in tears. Never was much of a crier but ever since I stopped HRT life has been hell.

I do believe more research should be done to help women who go through this. I see many marriages collapsing because it is tough not only for the woman but for the man as well.

Mum went through hell with her menopause but dad was always there supporting her. She as well knew she wasn't well and just couldn't control it. She even had suicidal thoughts. I do believe medicine should look more into it as women become disfunctional when going through it and many things that were good just collapsed.

Every woman that is going through this should seek help. Counselling, therapy, coping mechanism and even an anti depressant or anti anxiety.

When I first entered my peri I didn't have a clue what was going on with me as I was just too young, 37. I only realised what was going on when I almost ran over 2 jehova witnesses that were preaching on my estate. The next morning went and sought help. I was put on fluoxetine and things calmed down a bit.

It is important to help yourself, if u love the person u are with as a woman it is important to seek help.

With my partner (X) I was always there for him through thick and thin and lived him a lot. But unfortunately British men (typical ones) their idea of life is pub, beer, smoking and not being bothered. Their values are different from the ones that come from mixed marriages, religion or different countries, the kids seem to have more morals and principles and family values. This is what I have noticed throughout the years I have been living here. The same applies for Brazilian men. My ex was Brazilian and from a totally different reality from mine.

I have been through very tough times and all I want is to be happy again. I don't like feeling low and crying.

But if I managed to live without my son I will manage to get back on the horse.

Xx

Good morning Sabrina:

Thank you for your note.  I would say she would probably lop my head clean off my shoulders in a manner of speaking.  Lol.  I found this page while doing research on peri menopause/OCD and marriage.  Communication has broken down altogether.  But it's a good thought and I thank you.  

My wife has been in the US since '87-88.  She has never expressed an interest in becoming a citizen and is a proud English citizen.  I have expressed a sincere desire to move back which is where she seems to want to go but it always gives way to an argument.  

Have a lovely day Sabrina. 

Michael 

Whoa. Okay. Hah. Wow. Well, it sounds like she needs to put her big girl pants on and get herself to a doctor. There's an underlying issue causing all this crap and it isn't you. If you move back at any point, book your appointment for a knighthood. 

I jest, but I am sorry you are going through this. It sounds like it's time to face what you want and take it from there. Our lives are too short to be this miserable. 

just reading all of this.  Michael, all relationships go through rough patches.  It shows true grit to get through them.  It is not unusual for kids to replace an adult in the bed as they are growing up.  Happens all the time.  This is a really tough time for women, but it ends, might take some time, but it does end!  Believe me, she is hurting a lot more than you at this time.  

i really appreciate your comments.  On my good days I am able to step outside myself and realize that my wife is definitely in a bad state.  She reported last week that she's unraveling.  Reading so many of the stories herein in the various discussion threads has given me some understanding and perspective. So to you and everyone I say thank you.  Unfortunately not every day is my best day.  In order to even have something resembling a fighting chance I have to pull back and detach from the marriage a bit in order to withstand the lashing out as well as the cold clinical discourse.  On the downside it makes being the supportive husband a bit of a challenge.  But again thank you for your input.  

I was in Paris last week and I met up with an ex student who is going through exactly the same thing as you. He is beside himself and does not know what to do.

I asked him: do you still love your wife or are u holding the fort because of your 6 year old boy? He said because of the child.

I know being there for her is a must and it is grand of you to do so. I would have loved my ex to have done what u r doing and believe me I was not distant, was not holding back on intimacy, I did not change, the problem was that he did not want to have the burden of having to support me if I had something more complicated.

You seem to be one in a million, one of the few men that are supportive and stand by their spouse, for better or for worse and that is admirable. Nonetheless if the woman is not giving you any opening, if she is not allowing u in, communicating with you or accepting your help you have to think of yourself. Is it healthy what is going on? Is it healthy for your child? Are you doomed to live like this for the rest of your life? This can go on for years Michael.

Have you tired speaking to her? Has she accepted any help? Is she willing to see a counsellor or her doctor?

This is not a healthy existence.

I understand how hard it is for women during this period. But women who do not want to help themselves I do not accept.

The change is overwhelming I get that. I myself have been going through a lot of motions and grieving the loss of my relationship as I should because I want to move on and be happy. But for that I sought help from friends, family and the doctor. I couldn't sleep for weeks properly I went to see the doctor. Lack of sleep was getting to me and making me see things in 3D.

If a woman does not seek help and does not accept her wonderful husband'd support then I am sorry u are not going to sacrifice ur existence and happiness. She is a very lucky woman and any other woman would give her right arm to have a man like u by their side doing what u r doing. But at the end of the day if she is not responding how can u persevere?

What about ur existence and ur child's? Is it healthy for him? Is it healthy for the child to sleep in the bed with the mother? What message is she sending to him? This shall be embedded in his brain forever and u sleeping on the sofa? Come on!! I am all for supporting women throughout their peri/post menopause period but women that act as your wife I do not support because they are just not seeingnor seeking help, and they have what many of us would die for to have.

This is what I told my student. Have a sincere chat with her and tell her u have done loads of research and u want to help her and support her but that it takes 2 to tango and that things have to change. If she doesn't accept that than Michael you really have to question is it worth persisting and living a miserable existence. Are u afraid that if u part she will come back to the UK. She cannot as she would need ur consent to remove the child.

All I am saying that if u r miserable as well u cannot really help her and all of this will

Rub off on your child.

That is what I told my student. To be able to help someone we have to be ok as well. Being in a miserable relationship only makes us miserable and things get hard to cope with.

Think of that.