My experience of zopiclone (down the rabbit hole)

Hi. Can anybody help me? I have been taking Zopiclone tablets fairly regularly for about 9 months. I nearly managed to come off them using diazepan, but now my doctor won't prescribe any more for me because of the risk of addiction. I have managed to cut down the dose of the tablet but not come off altogether. If I don't

take it I sometimes have such a bad night I am suicidal in the morning. Then when I ring the doctor the answer comes back - take a Zopiclone tablet! I also asked the doctor about melatonin but he said he wasn't allowed to prescribe it. Has anyone any experience of using this for severe insomnia? You can get it without prescription,but the advice on the web is not to take it without a doctor's approval. When I am awake at night I am so frightened of the effects of insomnia that I take a tablet, but I know I need to stop taking them regularly.

Hi Hazel, firstly forget what your doctor says. Doctors don't have a clue what Zopiclone does they just hand it out like sweets as they don't know what else to do. The manufacturers of this horrid drug are primarily there to make money not to make people sleep better which Zopiclone doesn't do anyway no matter what the makers claim.

After some 25 years use and many attempts to give up I came off Zopiclone 36 days ago by stopping it altogether and using 10mg of Diazepam for the first night then 5mg 2mg and finally 1mg before stopping that too. 10mg should be plenty to knock you out. After three days the withdrawals from Zopiclone (which are not severe and amounted to being similar to a slight cold in my case) should have gone.

It is interesting that you mention being suicidal and afraid as others have mentioned this also and I am sure that this is likely to be paranoia introduced by the drug itself. It is a chicken and egg situation but once you stop the Zopiclone the paranoia should stop too. It was one of the main things that bothered me but when you think about it a bad nights sleep without Zopiclone and feeling tired the next day must beat a bad nights sleep and feeling like s***t the next day with the Zopiclone.

I tried Melatonin which you can buy OTC in health shops but for me it had pretty bad side effects in extremely vivid dreams. Others have said it didn't do this to them but a Google shows it is a widespread problem. I also tried Valerian but with no luck there either. I'd definitely recommend going down the Diazepam route cutting the dose down over a week or so and forgetting the Zopiclone altogether.

I found that keeping to a strict ritual of how much Diazepam I took was essential as I didn't want to replace one addiction with another.

You can beat it.

Dave - THIRTY SIX DAYS ZOPICLONE FREE!

PS Hazel. I forgot to mention that Melatonin is not a sleeping drug as such it is used to adjust the circadian rhythm (times when your brain should be asleep and/or awake).

hazel -- how much zopiclone were you on when you first started to come off and how much (if any) are you on now? How much Diazapam were you on when the doctor stopped the prescription? are you out of diazepam supply? If you can contact the doctor, i would tell him you are finding that stopping so abruptly is too hard for you and is causing frightening symptoms. Everyone is different, the doctor may know of people who have come off abruptly that did ok, tell him that you are having some emotional or psychological symptoms you weren't having before, especially severe depression, and you are requesting that he give you a referral to a doctor who specializes or has experience in treating patients with dependency on these kinds of medication, who know how to treat and manage the symptoms you are having while helping you to taper off the medication in way that you are able to tolerate.

I don't know if that will work or if your doctor will prescribe more diazepam and give you a referral to a doctor who is more familiar with managing the process of coming off sleeping medications, but if not, i can only say that i went off a fairly high dose of diazepam cold turkey 20 years ago, after i had been on it for 20 years (not that high of a dose until the end, 30mg) and i had little sleep after going off the diazepam, but i was using some spiritual/psychological affirmations to try to get through it (Louise Hay's book, You Can Heal Your Life, which another person on these forums was using when she went off zopiclone in December, her name is Shiloh),

not sure how i would've gotten through those nights without that, but everyone is different and ways of coping vary. The best thing i can tell you about it is, stopping it abruptly means once you get through withdrawing from it, it will be over, at least it was for me, the withdrawal symptoms (other than short sleep) which included tension, irritability, some twitching of muscles and nerves, sweating off and on, only lasted less than 4 days, and then the worst was over and it got less and less in the days that followed. I did not sleep very well for a long time after that, but it gradually improved over time. I don't think going off the medication caused the long term sleeping problems. i had those before i started the medication, that's why i was taking it.

i have not tried melatonin, i don't have confidence in it and it kind of scares me too because it's a hormone, but some people find it's helpful for them. It doesn't sound like you can get it anyway if your doctor won't prescribe it.

i think it would be really sad to go back on zopiclone, or to increase your dose. I think our bodies need as much regularity and predictability as possible and i believe in doctors working together with patients when coming off medications, not just jerking them around.

you could google Heather Ashton MD and the Ashton manual, Ashton is a doctor in the UK who specializes in helping people withdraw from medications and she has done a lot of writing and publishing about it. Maybe your doctor would look at her basic ideas about tapering slowly off of medications and putting the patient in the lead to judge how well they are tolerating it, while, as Dave said, keeping to a regular schedule of cutting down. She believes in using very small reductions and not rushing it, but containing to go in the direction of reducing the amount, not going back up.

I feel for you and hope you can get some proper help with what you're dealing with. The reason i went cold turkey off diazepam was that i developed a tolerance to it toward the end an it stopped working, and i increased the dose but that stopped working too, and then i was going to run out of the medication anyway and didn't have a way of getting any more, so i just stopped it, i had never heard of tapering back then, and probably wouldn't have wanted to do it that way anyway, i wanted to get it over with. And it went well for me, again, the worst was 4 days and i felt that i could stick it out even longer than that if i had to, as long as there was an end in sight, but i now know that going cold turkey isn't for everyone, some people report bad long term results from doing it, and for me personally, i don't feel up to doing that anymore and am working on tapering. i tapered off 7.5mg of zopiclone (about 18 months of taking it), cutting down 1/4 pill at a time, and not rushing it, it took a couple of months, but i was also still taking zolpidem which kept me from losing sleep, i don't really have withdrawal symptoms from zopiclone, mainly because of the zolpidem i think. I do NOT recommend going on to zolpidem because it's just the same thing. i was taking both at the same time, and now am happy to just be dealing with one. After needing to take diazepam for many years back in the 70s-90s, i have a caution about taking that, i think your doctor's worry about you becoming addicted is not unreasonable, but his method of stopping it doesn't seem proper to me.

Hi Dave

We'll done on 36 zimovane free days! What's the main changes it's made to your life? I too have been taking zimovane for 25 years and I''d be interested in hearing the side effects you had when taking zimovane and

and what life is like now Are you finding it easy to staff off them? I really wan to take the plunge and wonder if I should just go cold turkey but slightly worried in case I have seizures or anything. Any advice would be

appreciated. I have been diagnosed (2005) with Idiopathic Insomnia which is typically lifelong and relentless

But I wonder if I'd feel better without than with the zimovane and I do worry about long term effects of

minimum of 3x7.5mg a day!

Well Kathleen, my insomnia hasn't gone away and like you I suspect it is a lifelong thing. I had a rough night last night and ended up dropping 2mg of Diazepam to help me go off which I did at about 3am waking up at 09:00 . I'm retired so I don't have to worry about getting up for w*rk. I am also toying with the idea of watching late night tv if I can't go off (if there is anything worth watching).

What I am getting out of it is not having that stuffed up drugged up feeling which the Zopiclone was adding to the tiredness during the daytime. In that respect I feel much better. I am also interacting much better with people which I couldn't do when on the Zopiclone. My concentration was totally shot as was my memory.

I have never heard of anyone having fits by going go cold turkey, that is nonsense which I was also told would happen. As for staying off them yes the cravings all went inside three days and I have no doubt that I am off the junk for good.

I spoke to my doctor today who said I shouldn't be playing with Diazepam either but as I have previously said he hasn't got any better ideas how to go about things so he prescribe a small amount of Diazepam to be taken if I feel stressed out anytime. Obviously a stressful day isn't going to help get a good nights sleep.

I wouldn't advise going cold turkey without a crutch such as Diazepam for a few days at least to take the bite off any withdrawals but even then withdrawals are nowhere near as bad as you will be dreading. As I say I suspect that a lot of the withdrawals are paranoia brought on by the Zopiclone itself.

Go for it and this time next week you could be off the junk.

Good luck.

Dave - THIRTY SEVEN DAYS ZOPICLONE FREE!

Hi Dave

Thanks for your feedback which I found very interesting. I too have terrible problems with memory and

concentration. I've also found, in recent years, I've been very irritable and can fly of the handle easily and get things out of proportion. I've a lot of chronic pain to cope with in top of sleep problems but I don't like the way my personality has changed. I notice that I'm worse on the days I've taken more than my prescribed amount

of 3 x 7.5mg a day. You just get desperate to get a sleep sometimes - I long to wake up refreshed and feel

I've had a good nights sleep. Your posts are definitely encouraging me to go in the right direction. I definitely WANT to come of the pills and will start to work out re the diazepam. I've read the Heather Ashton Manual on using diazepam but, when I mentioned it recently to my doctor, she said she'd be reluctant to prescribe

diazepam because it's addictive. I don't think she understood the philosophy behind it. I'm due to see a Sleep Consultant soon as a follow up to an overnight sleep study (having another look to see if they can suggest

anything new & checking out for sleep apnoea).

I think I could come off the zimovane with a bit if initial help as I don't believe it can be helping me to sleep

after all these years ...... and I normally only get anything between almost no sleep to 2-4hrs of very

fragmented sleep a night.

I came off tramadol a few years ago with no significant problems and more recently stopped taking

amitryptylne - for compressed nerve pain due to spinal stenosis). I found it was working against me at night

and not helping much with the nerve pain. Anyway, thanks for your help. Keep posting because it gives hope

to folk like me who are still in the vicious cycle of 'Z' drugs.

Hi Dave

Thanks for your feedback which I found very interesting. I too have terrible problems with memory and

concentration. I've also found, in recent years, I've been very irritable and can fly of the handle easily and get things out of proportion. I've a lot of chronic pain to cope with in top of sleep problems but I don't like the way my personality has changed. I notice that I'm worse on the days I've taken more than my prescribed amount

of 3 x 7.5mg a day. You just get desperate to get a sleep sometimes - I long to wake up refreshed and feel

I've had a good nights sleep. Your posts are definitely encouraging me to go in the right direction. I definitely WANT to come of the pills and will start to work out re the diazepam. I've read the Heather Ashton Manual on using diazepam but, when I mentioned it recently to my doctor, she said she'd be reluctant to prescribe

diazepam because it's addictive. I don't think she understood the philosophy behind it. I'm due to see a Sleep Consultant soon as a follow up to an overnight sleep study (having another look to see if they can suggest

anything new & checking out for sleep apnoea).

I think I could come off the zimovane with a bit if initial help as I don't believe it can be helping me to sleep

after all these years ...... and I normally only get anything between almost no sleep to 2-4hrs of very

fragmented sleep a night.

I came off tramadol a few years ago with no significant problems and more recently stopped taking

amitryptylne - for compressed nerve pain due to spinal stenosis). I found it was working against me at night

and not helping much with the nerve pain. Anyway, thanks for your help. Keep posting because it gives hope

to folk like me who are still in the vicious cycle of 'Z' drugs.

'reluctant to prescribe Diazepam because it's addictive' but they have no qualms about handing Zopiclone out to everyone left right and center. The mind boggles.

It sure does. I think the GP should be aware of the Heather Aston method of withdrawal. The Sleep Clinic

know I'm keen to come off/reduce the zimovane so maybe they'll be more receptive to proven ways of doing

this!!!

I've only been going to this GP for the past year and, as expected, she was concerned that I am prescribed

over the recommended amount of zimovane. Her initial response was to want to put me on antidepressants for 6 mths. I was not happy with this as I'm not depressed and the list of side effects from the pill she wanted me to take was endless!!!

I can relate to Kathleen's post as I have a reluctance to stop taking Zopiclone because on the occasions

when I tried to come off them I experienced nasty withdrawal symptoms when half asleep/half awake.

My GP is happy to keep prescribing them for me ,and does not really come up with an alternative

I know they are going me harm,as I have been taking them for so many years and they are not really giving

me a decent's night sleep any more.

I am also feeling dizzy at odd intervals during the day,(vertigo) as I think the pills do not leave my system as

they used to do.

I gave a strong aversion to risking ANY other drugs ,as I saw that whatever my mother used to take for many

years did not really help as she eventually took an overdose.

I am 71.

I do find this forum helpful and supportive and I can see that there is help from you all out there,for which I am most grateful.

Wendl

Dear Dave 88

I have managed to get hold of some more diazepan by twisting the doctor's arm,but I think an initial dose of 10 mg may be too much. I don't want to end up a zombie tomorrow as I have an appointment at the local mental health clinic. Any thoughts?

To be honest Hazel I personally wouldn't go anywhere near a mental health unit. I did once and was seriously let down. I promised myself never again would I ask these people for help. Take the Diazepam tonight have a good nights sleep without the Zopiclone.

Dave - FOURTY DAYS ZOPICLONE FREE!

Hazel - unless i missed it, you haven't said what dose you are taking of zopiclone or diazepam. If you think 10mg diazepam is too much, you must have reasons for thinking that, maybe because you have been taking 5mg and that has been enough for you? i would say to avoid taking more than you need--less is more. The more you take, the more you move in the direction of developing a tolerance for the medication so that over time, it will have less and less effect on you. If you want to keep taking it, or i should say, if you NEED to keep taking it, with tolerance you have to take more to get the effect. Slippery slope. If you think 10mg diazepam is too much and will make you feel like a zombie, you are probably in a better position to judge how much to take than anyone else.

In a previous post, i suggested you might be interested in googling Heather Ashton, the doctor who specializes in helping people get off medication and has written at least one text book about it and has You Tube videos on you tube about her ideas and advice, which are easier to watch than reading through her detailed material.

One thing i have found helpful, informative, is an equivalence table in some of the material from Ashton that is on line--it tells you approximately how much diazepam is equivalent to doses of other medications. The table shows the equivalence between 10mg diazepam and the amount of various other drugs that would give about the same effect as 10mg of diazepam. Att the bottom of the list, she has "non-benzodiazapines with similar effects," which are the Z drugs, including zopiclone and three others.

If you know what dose you are taking of zopiclone, as you do, then you can look on this table to see what the approximate equivalent dose of diazepam is. According to this table, 15mg of zopiclone is equivalent to 10mg of diazepam. So, two 7.5 mg tablets of zopiclone is equivalent to one 10mg tablet of diazepam. If you are taking one 7.5mg tablet of zopiclone, that would be about equivalent to half of a 10mg diazepam, or 5mg.

So if you are deciding how much diazepam to take, to get the same effect for sleep that you were getting with the amount of zopiclone you were taking, you could use that table as a guideline.

If i put a link to the equivalency table in this post then the moderators will delay putting my post up on the forum until they check to make sure the link is appropriate. I will post the link in a separate post, but if you want to find it yourself, just google ashton equivalency table and it should come up as the first hit on google, and there should be several hits for it in the list. It's not called ashton equivalency table, it's called the Benzodiazapine Equivalency Table, but it was constructed and published by Ashton.

As someone who has taken both diazepam and zopiclone habitually, i want to say that my experience is that they are not THAT different, they both act on the same parts of the brain in the same ways to help you sleep, they both cause the same kind of dependency. Diazapam may cause more dependency because zopiclone only acts on one part of the brain, the sleep part, while diazepam acts on the sleep part as well as some others, particularly parts that affect levels of anxiety. So, there is more to become dependent on and more to have to give up when the time comes to stop the medication.

But people do come off of both of these medications successfully so whichever someone is on, getting off is pretty much the same, just going through a period of transition to life without the medication. And there are various ways that people do this. One way in the case of zopiclone is by switching to diazepam and then going off the diazepam, as you've been doing and as Dave has done. That is recommended for some people because diazepam stays in your circulation a lot longer, so that the withdrawal process may be more drawn out and gradual. That is one of many ways that people stop taking zopiclone.

The dilemma we all face is that we do not sleep as well or as easily as people who do sleep well, unless we take medication. Unfortunately, medications bring their own problems, one of which is gradually losing effect over time and another which is side effects. So that is the dilemma we face. It's only natural and healthy to want to sleep well and the medications help. So it's hard to stop. I don't think for some of us that the medications themselves are that addictive but what is hard to give up is the help they give for sleeping, which is not a drug addiction but a natural need. However, in addiction to the physical need for sleep that is motivating us to take medication, there is also a lot of understandable psychological anxiety about not having the sleep, and some of that can be exaggerated and can contribute to the dependency or make it worse.

I agree with Dave that mental health professionals can be unhelpful, but i think that most of us who are making progress with going off the medications have adjusted our attitudes and thinking somewhat about just how necessary having control over sleep every day actually is. Dave for example looked at the side effects of the medication and the effect that had on his ability to have an enjoyable relationship with his grandson, and he re-prioritized things so that he saw less control over getting to sleep as a price it was worth paying in order to have a less drugged feeling in his daily life.

He's not the only one. In my case, the long term health effects of the medications scare me (e.g. possible cancer risk), and that is motivating me to be more accepting of getting less sleep, though it's a very hard transition for me, it's going agonizingly slowly.

My success at this point has been to come off of zopiclone so that i'm not taking TWO of these sleeping medications and am only taking one now, although at a dose that's more than double the prescribed amount. I am working my way toward somehow tapering off of this.

39 days zopiclone free and what i've found is that my least favorite zopiclone related symptom has not occurred since i took my last 1/4 tablet--where i used to wake up about twice a week in the morning in this bizarre unreal state, where nothing made sense, and it didn't occur to me when this was happening that it was caused by the medication, it seemed like just the way things are and was very unpleasant. It would only last about a half hour at most, and then would wear off, but i hated it. It was like being lost, not knowing what to do. Nothing made sense.

I have not been sure if it would come back just because of the other medication i am taking, similar to zopiclone, but it hasn't happened. i remember the last time it happened very clearly and wrote it down on my calendar, it was February 22nd. That was around the time i cut the zopiclone down from 1/2 tablet to 1/4 tablet, and the last zopiclone i took was the night of February 26. I have not had another episode of this bizarre unreality state. It does show how dangerously this medication, or the combination of these two medications, affected my brain.

Link to Ashton medication equivalence estimates, showing how 10mg diazepam compares to several other medications. Zopiclone is near the bottom, scroll down. 10mg diazepam is similar in strength and effect to 15mg zopiclone, or two 7.5mg tablets of zopiclone.

http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm