no quad control following arthroscopy
Posted , 19 users are following.
hi there
had a routine right knee arthroscopy under gen anaesthetic in nov 2012. 2 weeks later on removing dressing and stiches, physio noted i was unable to do a straight leg raise. was sent to physio, had lots of tests and 2 years later am still unable to do a striaght leg raise, use stairs properly etc.my knee gives way constantly and as a result i ended up with a stellate patellar fracture and patella baja., after a bad fall 12 months ago..i have been in a leg brace for 6 months and see a physio but there has been no change in my quad. my quad has atrophied and i have no motor power. there is no sensory loss however.
any advice /?/ anything at all???
kind regards
helen
0 likes, 149 replies
crimbofairy kittylamb
Posted
Have you tried electric strimulation or tens to wake up the quad? I read somewhere this morning this can sometimes work? Was wondering if you had tried this? After my tumble this week it restricted my physio and im not looking forward to trying the new gym equipment my physio has started me on monday as i fear its only going to make it worse again as after the last session my son had to pick me up off the floor not something a 9 year old should need to be doing but he is my little superman!! Im going to ask my physio at it when i see him next week see if he thinks it will help? Just wondered if you had tried it??
I think the most frustrsting thing im finding is my family are like oh it will be fine just keep trying and your be walking in no time they just dont get that i cant get my quads to function its like their in denial!! Drives me crazy!!
kittylamb crimbofairy
Posted
i havent tried it, funnily enough i read about it and mentioned it to my consultant when i saw him 4 weeks ago and he said he would make some enquiries....heard nothing yet !!!!
i know what you mean with regards to people not getting it.....everyone just seems to think i will wake up one day and be able to do a straight leg raise...they dont seem to comprehend that it would happen like that esp as its been like this for over 2 years and i have severe muscle atrophy...i sometimes think they think im just not trying...or its in my head......drives me mad!!!!!! good luck with new gym equipment tomorrow...all my physio does is give me a list of exercises to do ...so let me know if its any good.
kind regards
helen
melissa77364 kittylamb
Posted
I've gotten that too..They think I'm exaggerating it.
sheila14131 crimbofairy
Posted
Art_lover sheila14131
Posted
sheila14131 kittylamb
Posted
Do you still have this problem? I had the same surgery over two years ago and I still can't move my leg normally.
Art_lover kittylamb
Posted
Hi Kitty lamb (and to everyone else). I'm so sorry you have been going through this. I have been going through something similar and it is a nightmare. I had a knee arthroscopy a year and half ago for a meniscus tear, and that leg has never been the same since! Although I can do leg lifts now, my leg is still very weak and I've been limping/dragging it ever since my surgery and I walk very slow. After the surgery I found it almost impossible to do even one leg lift and for weeks after I could only do a couple at a time. My leg has improved some, but in my opinion very little for it being a year and a half ago. My surgeon did say it was possible a nerve got damaged and I will be getting anEMG soon. Until someone has this happen to them, they ab solutely have no idea what a struggle this is to walk , and how incredibly draining this is physically on the rest of the body, as well as on you mentality and emotionally (and yes, it will definitely make your back and other areas of the body very painful too). Has anyone had an EMG? If so, what were the results? Do you know if by the quads shutting down due to the surgery, does that show up on an EMG? I've heard of several people personally that have had similar problems with muscle weakness/walking issues from a simple knee arthroscopy. Some of them haven't regained what they have lost and are still struggling to walk years later.
This might not be the case for everyone, but I think it just has to do with how your body might react to trauma. I've tried excersises, stimulating the muscle with tens machine etc, and although I think it helps somewhat, in my case, I am still struggling to walk (I can't believe it's been this long!) There have been scientific articles written about activation failure in the quads post knee arthroscopy surgery. This whole experience has been very traumatic for me, I can't imagine not even being able to do even one leg lift. I'm so sorry for everything you (and other's here are going through ). What does you EMG's/neurologists say?
kittylamb Art_lover
Posted
sorry to hear you too are going through all this.....my arthroscopy was 4 years ago now and i stilll cant raise my right leg....i have a full leg brace t0 STop the knee from giving way and regularly visit RJAH hospital in gobowen who are fantastic....are you in uk?
i have had 4 EMGs but all they show is that the nerve is in tact but not communicating with the muscle....and apparently THE nerve could still be damaged as it is not working as it should even though it is there!!!! my quad shut down after the op and has never returned....and i have used farradic conduction machine, physio, exercises, hydrotherapy... etc!!!
my specialists are all now saying that i need to stop wasting my life waiting for my quad to return and more think about living with it/managing it!!!!
noone seems to know how/why this has happened....
it has been a nightmare for me....from being a very active 48 year old working as cabin crew...to now having a full leg brace and crutches and no job!!!
i do wish you luck in your journey....its not an easy one is it?
h xx
Art_lover kittylamb
Posted
Hi kittylamb,
I can only imagine that it's been a nightmare for you too. I'm wondering if somehow your nerve may have gotten crushed while being in the position for the surgery. From what I understand, the leg is in a weird position during a scope, and it could be that some people 's nerves are more fragile than other's. I know what you mean by being active before the surgery. I'd won several trophies at a sport I did twice a week and that gave me the most happiness out of anything in my life. It was my life really. Everything has changed for me and had to go on disability . I would give anything to be able to be able to be active again. The surgery also caused my knee and to be way more painful than before the surgery. I did not imagine I would be that small percent where the surgery would make things worse. Its hard to digest, but it does cause us to be more compassionate /better human beings I think. I sure hope things improve for you. I live in the US. If I lived close by, I'd would try to get together for coffee! Take care😻
Art_lover
Posted
Ps. Besides Sally's great advice below, I read that it helps to work the other leg as well. Apparently the muscles in the stronger leg will somehow influence the muscles in the weak leg to catch up.
sally30mc Art_lover
Posted
Yes I've been told that too (working the other leg) though I must admit I forget to do it, I must try harder! I'm so sorry to hear others have this awful quad weakness - I wish I'd found this thread a while back, I was absolutely desperate, sobbing daily, wondering what on earth had gone wrong, and searching for anything i could find that sounded like what I was going through, but everything I found back then was people having had a total knee replacements! How on earth such a relatively straightforward op can cause such a mess to the leg muscles is a mystery. I'll never take walking for granted again! I am scared my leg will never be the same again, as long as I'm in forward plain and no one bumps into me then I can hobble along, but I am constantly worrying someone will knock me accidentally and I'll fall flat on my face! But, that said, at least I can hobble about now, so I'll celebrate that progress. I think progress is there, but it is so excruciatingly slow, you can almost miss it, and it doesn't match up to initial expectations which makes it all the more frustrating. I'm also a control freak so this lack of control bugs me! Realising I have to put in the work and be mega patient because I can't speed up recovery makes me want to scream!
x
Art_lover sally30mc
Posted
I totally understand! ! It's a very frightening experience when all of a sudden you can't get your leg to work and you know deep down inside that even though everyone is telling you to just keep getting physical therapy, you can tell it could take years, or a miracle for it to get back to the way it was. I was also bewildered and crying everday and although I would never want to, even felt suicidal at times. I felt like I was in a bad dream and crying out for help, but nothing would come out of my mouth and no one could help me. Its hard to express everything you're going through to friends and family. No one understands unless they've been in your there. I also feel like a "Weeble" that wobbles and hopefully won't fall down if someone bumps into me.(I completely relate!). I hate feeling so vulnerable since I know I can't defend myself if needed and I hate going out in public. I'm a single woman and don't have family close by and grocery shopping wipes me out. For the first year just walking through my house, doing dishes/laundry would exhaust me (and still does to different degrees). I too am very worried that my leg will never be normal again. I know that my leg is tearing up my knee and will make the pain worse, but my main concern is walking!!!. I also will never take walking for granted again. When I'm out, I sit and just look at everyone walking quickly and naturally and think "I use to be like that" and still can't believe this has happened all because of a supposedly "simple" sugery. I know I had a good surgeon , but I wish I was warned about the fact that your leg muscles can simply "shut down". I nprobably wouldve gotten it anyway and like most people, tend to think that nothing bad will happen to them. I hate when I'm in public and I have to endure people looking at me.. l love to dance and had people sometimes say that I walked like a dancer. Well, Im pretty sure I won't ever hear that again..
I too have noticed some progress, but it has been hugely SLOW, and feel like I may never get the muscles working in synchronicity like before. I know some doctors say to not look at the internet, but the Internet has really been my saving grace. Without it, I would have felt completely alone😦. Thank you and the others!
kittylamb Art_lover
Posted
and i agree with all you say...i too was sporty etc and have had to go onto disability
it certainly does teach you whats important in life when you go through stuff like this....
shame you are in usa...yeah we could have limped out for coffee!!! hahaha
where in usa are you just out of interest?
i too hope things improve for you
helen x
Art_lover kittylamb
Posted
Haha..limping out for coffee sounds good right about now😃!! Sounds like we couldve played some sports together too.It sounds like we're all strong here. ..I pray we will find our destiny, limping or not! I'm in California btw. So good to talk with you💟
kittylamb Art_lover
Posted
ah i love california....used to go to san diego, san fran and la wen i was flying with british airways.....did a great trip to chandon vineyards and the winemakin places etc....love the good ole usa...x
Art_lover kittylamb
Posted
I love San Diego too. Am originally from Santa Barbara area . Wow, it sounds like you had a fascinating career getting to travel etc. I don't know about the Chand on vineyards, sounds really nice. I've never been to the UK but I do have a friend from South Africa though! I love cats btw (kittylamb?). I have a nutty Siamese that keeps me going lol. Xo
kittylamb Art_lover
Posted
such a shame we dont live closer....we could get together and start a club for people in our situation and have coffee mornings....or wine evenings...hahaha
take care and keep in touch
x
Art_lover
Posted
kittylamb Art_lover
Posted
or lovely laboured lazy laughable legs club!!!
yeah....wud be great to have a penpal across the water...in a similar situation....it keeps you sane (ish)
but i dont kno how to do it either...i imagine if we put our email adressess on it will be wiped?
will try and see what happens
h x
oh yeah my names helen by the way....kittylamb is coz i love cats/ my gran was called kitty...and i love lambs....baaa
kittylamb Art_lover
Posted
my email is
dunno if im allowed to do this?
if theres a moderator around....apologies if im not allowed...please tell me what to do
many thanks
helen x
Moderator comment: I have removed the email address as we do not publish these in the forums. If users wish to exchange contact details please use the Private Message service.
http://patient.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/398331-private-messages
sally30mc kittylamb
Posted
Hi ladies, hope you're doing ok. I have physio tomorrow so will let you know if he has any new bits of advice. I've been using the green physio resistance band this week - tied in a circle & then looped under a heavy table leg. I step my bad leg into it and then have been (trying my best to) step forward with the bad leg. So straight in front, pushing forwards (the band is just above ankle height) against the band, stretching the band. He gave me this exercise last week as I told him I'd tried to nudge something light (a pair of socks!) out the way with my foot, forwards, and was so taken aback by how little movement/strength my leg had at that angle too. I hadn't noticed that move before as it's not something I regularly do! I'll let you know if I get any better from using the band.
Cat fan here too, I have a 13 year old moggy called Binker, I had her pre-husband, and pre-children so bless her she's gone down in the pecking order since it was just her and I! But she's super cute & comes and sits with me whenever I'm at home alone and has done ever since the knee op. Shame she can't do the washing or make a cuppa! x
Art_lover kittylamb
Posted
Ok now that's just weird. My mom's name is Kitty!! Love your club name haha.😁 or..."Anti Languishing Ladies of the Limp". (can tell we'd have fun emailing). Since we both love cats I have an idea. You could join "The Cat Site". If you post a new post and use Kittylamb (or a different name you choose), I could respond to your post there and they have a way members can private msg eachother which is super easy. You could post a msg about ear mites or best types of dry food, lol. So we can talk about cats AND legs in one shot! Just let me know who you post as and I'll respond!😊
kittylamb sally30mc
Posted
great to hear from another in our club...hahahha...and another animal lover..
keep up the good work and yeah be sure to let us kno any updates....are you in uk?
this forum is so good.....just makes you feel not so alone with all we are going thru
h xx
you need to train binker to make tea tho!!!! hahaha
kittylamb Art_lover
Posted
not very good with social media and stuff....i did post my email add to you but it does say its currently being moderated...but i also apologised to the moderator and said if i wasnt allowed to do that cud they let me kno wot to do...im rubbish with technology!!!
and sal gal (sally) is in our club too....and another pet lover...yayay
wow...so funny your mom is kitty....esp as not that popular a name..... wow ...freaky!!!
i dont have any pets at mo....had to move up to north wales and back to my elderly parents house with losing my job at the airlines etc...boo hoo...but love animals...esp dogs and cats
this forum is an absolute godesend
xx
sally30mc kittylamb
Posted
Yes I'm in the UK - in Derby. Yes agree - this forum is so helpful, just feeling that there are other people that understand & know without needing to explain much, not just the leg stuff but the emotional stuff too!
kittylamb sally30mc
Posted
and on this forum...you dont have to justify and qualify everything...you can just moan or waffle etc....its great
my auntie lives in darley abbey
me in north wales at mo
keep in touch x
Art_lover kittylamb
Posted
Yes pretty freaky I agree lol. I'm glad Sal gal is in our club. It takes 3 to officially start a club right? (Or maybe I just made that up), but it's a club and we've started it..hope others who are hurting feel free to join/comment as they need. Its definitely a roller coaster emotionally. Yesterday I happened to talk to two strangers and they asked what happened to my leg. I told them simple scope and they said "Oh, well I had 1 of those and I didn't have anything like that.." If it was legal I wouldve flicked them on the head..but then they couldve flicked me back and I wouldve fallen down. Seriously tho, I do feel sort of judged when they say that. I think it just baffles them . Its easy to think we can just "will" our bodies to do what our minds want. But a nerve problem/muscle weakness is profoundly powerful. It was nice though because I could at least tell them that there are other people on the Internet who have this too. And if we can't email, we can continue to chat here. Pretty sure people in our shoes would like a soft place to land ( oops, didn't mean that litterally!!)
Art_lover sally30mc
Posted
Glad you're a "moggy" lover as well (I love that term , we don't get to hear that in the US. Im already trying to start some of your excersises and appreciate you posting them. Some are different from what I've learned so it's good to know about them. A guy who had quad weakness told me that his physical therapist
taught him to sit on a chair with wheels, like an office chair and wheel himself backwards. Unfortunately for me practically every excersises I do causes me pain and then my leg feels like it's going to buckle.
Have you guys had any burning sensations or swelling in your calf? I do, but ultasound just shows slow blood flow.
Art_lover kittylamb
Posted
Ps. This has been a godsend for me too! It's so fun to be able to joke too, haha.... Thanks for starting this Helen.
Art_lover
Posted
kittylamb Art_lover
Posted
arrrggghhhh.....drives me mad.....and everyone seems to apparently be an expert all of a sudden...i always feel like sayin...oh wow, didnt realise you were qualified in orthopedics....more than my consultant.....but i grit my teeth, smile....nod my head and just ignore stupid comments,,,,,the best one was last week....a woman said to me...oh yeah i had a similar thing and 6 weeks later it was fine.....i didnt even have the energy to say ...well im still waitin after 3 years.. ijust said...oh great..
people are so draining sumtimes!!!!
anyway...rant over....
hahahaha
xx
Art_lover kittylamb
Posted
Oh boy... That would be funny to come up with stuff. "Bank Robbery"...or, "It happened during a rare sinkhole incident ". (Haha).
With the woman and the 6 weeks comment, that must've been the worst. The response she deserved would be a blank stare from you while eating a bag of chips.
I know, the 1st person proceeded to hint to me that my weight may be the issue (Although thinner at the time of my surgery and healthy/athletic ) and was talking about how omitting certain foods did away with his arthritis. He was a very nice man and he was trying to be respectful, but I had to explain to him that my walking with a cane was not because of arthritis, my cholesterol was perfect, no diabetes etc, but that my quad shut down/possible nerve damage! Two hours later I had a woman who was much more overweight than me tell me she had no problems from her surgery!! You have to almost teach people. .."The muscle shut down from the surgery or nerve was damaged. Its not how skinny or fat your leg is. And yes, it happened because of the surgery.
Pre surgery: WALKY. Post surgery : NO WALKY.
Ha...at least we can get a chuckle lol.
(and please rant..it makes me feel good).
Art_lover
Posted
That was meant for Sally...(about the working Moggy😸
sally30mc Art_lover
Posted
I'm just up & just asked Binker, but she tilted her head and her face said "nah!" so I put the kettle on myself! 😂
Watch out with those exercises, I'd hate to make your leg worse! It sounds like it doesn't take much at all to make your leg swell and I'd hate to think I'd made it worse.
x
sally30mc kittylamb
Posted
Art_lover sally30mc
Posted
Oh no , don't ever worry about that. Thx tho. I only do a short time and see how it makes me the next day. As for Binker, I'd be more concerned about her sneaking some catnip into your tea (for putting her 3rd down the pecking order..)
sheila14131 Art_lover
Posted
I to have the quid problem after Sergey, I was over weight before and I'm over weight after, it makes me mad for people to say it's the weight. It's been 4 years now, I live in Georgia, that's USA. There is not to many of us with this problem after Sergey, I just wish I know how to fix it, if my other leg go's out I will be in a wheel chair.
leslie22109 Art_lover
Posted
Art_lover leslie22109
Posted
Hi Leslie. I'm so sorry this has happened to your little girl, it has got to be heartbreaking. I really can't give you any specific doctors since I'm still trying to find answers myself. I think, from what from what I've read , it's not a super common occurrence but its from the quadriceps muscle shutting down to protect the knee. Has she gotten an EMG? That may give a clue on if/how the quadricep is firing. Then maybe you can try to find a odthopedic doctor/neurologist /physical therapist that knows about this sort of thing. I know there have been scientific articles written about "activation quadricep failure", or "CAD" failure and the studies seems to show that it has to do with motor neurons. They apparently are more common from a knee replacement, but can happen from a knee arthroscopy as well. Maybe find a physical therapist who not only knows the right strengthening excercises for the quad/thigh muscles but who can use the right nerve/muscle stimulating machine and how often it should be done. Ive (now) read that a certain setting on the machine combined with so many treatments per day or week can make a difference especially if done early enough after the surgery. I'm not sure if the average physical therapy office understands these things, so ask if they've had experience in helping people with their quads shutting down after surgery. Also, there are you tube videos of excersises that are for firing up the quads. Keep in mind that it can be a very slow process depending on your daughters particular situation, and help her to understand that (without giving up trying). It's important that she has someone that she can talk to about what she's going through emotionally as she is probably bewildered, especially by not getting alot of answers from the medical community. Even talk therapy may help (even both of you together with a qualified talk therapist). I'll say a prayer for her and you both.
Take care
💟
Art_lover sheila14131
Posted
Hi Sheila, Im sorry, I think I missed your comment awhile back. Yes, a person's body weight has nothing to do with this and it's very frustrating when people don't understand that it apparently (from what I've read) has to do with the motor neurons in the leg after the surgery and how someones particular leg responds. Like I said, I talked to a woman who was more over weight than me and she didnt have this problem from an arthroscopy . Also, there are people who were thin/very physically fit who are having this problem! How are you doing now?