Offered Standard Rate before it goes to Tribunal

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Advice need.   Got turned down for PIPs - applied for MR - turned down again.   Put in appln for Tribunal.     Had a phone call last  week - they have offered Standard Rate for Daily Living (Scored 8 points).   

Mobility they have scored me 4 - previosuly 0.

Shall I accept the Standard Rate for Daily Living or is it worth going through the tribunal to get the mobility element.

Gettting really confused on what to do.  

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20 Replies

  • Posted

    I have just sent my pack off and am dreading the outcome I have Bi-polar and am under a psychiotrist I have had it for the last 3 years but every one who is sending their forms off has been declined, hope you get yours sorted out 
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  • Posted

    It all depends what is wrong with you..there should be places in your area that can help like where i live its called comunicare. My ESA and disability were stopped when i changed to pip.i got 0 points in my ESA and 4 and 2 in pip..they went through the points book on both benefits.i have appealed both i was going for 15 i my ESA and im going to try and go for the mobility in pip.even though I had low and medium in disability it just dosent look like i can get the points for both points of pip.i went to my ESA tribunal on Tuesday and got 24 points.got pip next month.i think if you cant get those points then take the offer but if you get that advise and you can get more go for the tribunal.it just goes to show if i hadn't appealed both i would of not got 24 points in my ESA and hopefully get my pip.I hope it goes well for you this stuff is getting alot if people down and its unnecessary.good luck

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  • Posted

    Well as the living and mobilty are separate then you have nothing to lose in going to the tribunal to try for mobility.  I would do it even if I thought there wasn't much chance.  Good luck.  x

     

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    • Posted

       I would do it even if I thought there wasn't much chance

      Which inevitably results in a clogged up system for everyone else.

      If there isn't much chance that you would win - why bother - do you enjoy the stress of it all and then get nothing in return? 

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    • Posted

      Lion has nothing to lose and it is his/her right to claim if they want to.  I have asked you before to stop nit picking everything I say Les,  so I am asking again in a nice way.  I won't ask a third time!

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    • Posted

      Actually Hypercat Lion could lose the points on offer now. They are not set in stone and the Tribunal does have the authority to remove the extra points and leave Lion with nothing.

       

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    • Posted

      Everyone has the right to claim every benefit - I agree.

      But if you genuinely believe that you aren't entitled why bother?

      I could claim for Funeral Expenses, Maternity Allowance/Grant etc, but I know full well that I wouldn't get them.

      I did the self assessment for PIP and as much as I could try to bend my answers to fit the descriptors I could only manage 4 points for Care. Consequently I didn't go for the transition from DLA to PIP as there was little point in wasting my time and energy and that of the DWP in making a claim that would ultimately fail.

      I have more important things to do than filling out a 35 page form to get nothing in return. 

       

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    • Posted

      You need to be really careful as the tribunal will look at the whole award and they can and do remove points if they think the DWP have been too generous.  You could end up losing the care award.
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    • Posted

      Here's a turn up for the book Les - I actually agree with you !! I know several people in my disability support group who challenged the care points at tribunal. A few, although successful with the care appeal, actually lost their mobility allowance altogether and one was awarded standard rate mobility from higher rate and didn't get anything on care. You have to be really careful as they look at the whole award again and if they think the DWP have been too generous with the points they can and do take them away.

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    • Posted

      I agree, but as you know through the failure of the DWP to deal with letters sent to them, I never got as far as an award.

      Part of the blame I also place at the door of the 'Benefit & Work' website. I along with many more, trust that what the PIP self assessment did was to give a good idea/best estimate of what award you were likely to get.

      It gave 4 points for care only.

      Maybe people should use that website if they are challenging an award already given in the hope that they can get a higher award?

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  • Posted

    It would be impossible for any of us to give to absolute advice as we don't have access to your medical records or other evidence.

    Taking a general observation it would depend on what you scored the 4 points on and the possibility of scoring more. 4 points is either awarded for

    1.  Planning and following journeys

    b. Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant.

    or

    2. Moving Around

    b. Can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided

    So to get to 8 points 'standard mobility' you would have to prove on the balance of probabilities that you either 'Can't plan the route of a journey' at all due to mental health or loss of sensary vision or prove on the balance of probabilities that you  'Can stand and then move unaided more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres'

    It could be that the Tribunal come to the conclusion that you shouldn't even have been awarded the 4 points and take them away. It is possible to lose the 8 points (or part of) the standard daily living also.

    Therefore if you are going to Tribunal be absolutely sure of your evidence and argument.

     

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    • Posted

      Yep. I totally agree. The planning a journey points are very tricky as they are only supposed to be awarded on ground of mental health, cognitive or learning disability, not physical ability to walk.  If the tribunal think the DWP have awarded points in this area without good reason they will take them away and reduce your award.
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    • Posted

      I have been awarded 4 points in the moving round (50 metres but less than 200).    I really struggle going out (especially unfamiliar areas) apart from locally due to extreme fatigue/pain.   I get really light headed and disorientated and in the past family members had to come and get me - so have stopped going out on my own.   CAB have advised that I could argue on the cognitive part as when I get really fatigued/pain it affects my cognitive impairment.  
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    • Posted

      OK.  Sorry for taking so long to reply.  I  have researched this and asked around among people who have had first hand experience. To clarify.  Challenging both the care and mobility components at tribunal means that you risk having points deducted for either component and possibly having the award reduced or lost altogether. This is because the tribunal is looking at the whole award and if they think DWP have been too generous or have awarded points in error they will not hesitate to deduct them.  However, if you only challenge one component and not both, they will only look at the component you are challenging. 

      Here are a couple of  examples I’ve gathered from my friends who have been through this process.   One lady was awarded PIP standard rate care and mobility, having had a higher rate award of both under DLA.  She challenged both, hoping to increase the award in both areas but the tribunal decided that the DWP had made an error in the care award and reduced the points – losing her the care award altogether.  She did, however, end up with the higher rate mobility allowance.

      In the second instance the gentleman in question was migrated from higher rate DLA care and mobility and the PiP award again gave him standard rate of both.  He chose to accept the loss of higher rate care and decided that the mobility component was more important to him, as he had lost a motability vehicle as a result of the migration to PiP.  He went to tribunal and won the higher rate mobility component back, and retained his standard rate care award because he had not challenged it.

      In all cases I asked about, the CAB representatives who handled the cases at tribunal had forewarned the claimants that if they challenged both components they could lose out, and to really think hard about what was most important to them.  In addition, there have also been cases where the claimant has arrived at the court for the tribunal and has immediately  been advised by a tribunal representative that if they continued with the case, they were likely to lose out because on preliminary examination there was a case for deducting points

      I think the latter is quite encouraging because it reinforces the point that the tribunal judges try to be fair. 

      I think you need to decide what is most important to you and go with that.  My own opinion – and it is just an opinion, is that you should leave the care component as it is and challenge the mobility decision.  If you already have four points for not being able to walk more than 200 metres, you only need a further 4 points to total 8 and be awarded the standard rate, which is £21 a week.  If you can successfully argue that you have cognitive difficulties and cannot go out alone, this alone will attract a further 4 points, and you’re there.

      You also need to look at the 4 points you have already been awarded, and decide whether you should have been awarded more – if so, then you also need to challenge this at the tribunal.  Remember the ‘reliability’ rule.  To be judged capable of walking any distance, you must be able to walk it repeatedly, to an acceptable standard, with due regard to any pain you experience and in less than twice the maximum time it would take someone without a disability.  If you cannot do it to this standard then you cannot do it and you would then fall into the next higher category. To get 8 points you are judged to be able to walk unaided more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres, and if you need to use an aid such as a stick or crutches, or you need help from someone else, this increases to 10 points.  It’s important to decide which category you think you fall into before you complete the tribunal submission, as once you make the argument you cannot change it.

      I know this is a bit complicated but I hope it helps and please don’t hesitate to ask if you need any further help or info. 

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    • Posted

      CAB have advised that I could argue on the cognitive part as when I get really fatigued/pain it affects my cognitive impairment.  

      I find that argument intriguing. One of my diagnosed conditions is early onset 'Vascular Dementia' and another is 'Acquired Brain Injury'

      In my case I would know where I intended to go and how to get there when I started off but then I would forget where I was and what I was doing (loss of short term memory). This could cause further problems as due to the altered personality I have, I would panic and maybe lash out!!!!!!!

      Yet I live a fairly normal'ish life and other than the spinal injuries I have which do affect my walking length which is dependent on the quantity of pain relief taken beforehand I can't honestly say that I am THAT physically disabled even with forgetting where I was going.

      This is solved in my case by writing notes in a small note pad. It reminds me of what I will probably forget.

      To my way of thinking the planning section and even the getting around section doesn't actually fit my capabilities or problems.

      I do honestly think that you will have a hard job getting a mental health descriptor for a physical act.

       

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    • Posted

      Thanks Pam

      I am only challenging the mobility decision and have got letters from professoinals that I struggle due to pain/fatigue managing 50 metres or so.   Confused on how to write the tribunal submission - shall I state I am happy with the standard rate for daily living and I am only challenging the mobility.   Sorry if I sound stupid.

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    • Posted

      Don’t make a tribunal attempt on your own. Get help from the CAB or ask your GP to refer you to an advocacy group who will assign you a representative to handle the appeal.  Despite what Les has just posted, the planning  and following a journey category has nothing to do with the physical act of walking, it is only awarded to those with mental health, cognitive or learning disabilities – physical mobility problems are assessed elsewhere.  I have some literature somewhere on tribunals, which I will try to post for you tomorrow sometime,  and there is plenty of advice available online – Benefits and Work website have excellent guidance but you need to be a member – if you’re planning to appeal, then their subscription charge, which I think is around £20 a year, is well worth the money.

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    • Posted

      'I do honestly think that you will have a hard job getting a mental health descriptor for a physical act.'  Not sure what you mean here Les. Can you clarify ? The planning and following a journey descriptor for PiP does not look at the physical act as this is assessed elsewhere in the mobility test - it assesses whether the claimant has the mental capacity and cognitive skills needed to plan and follow a journey and what level of help is needed. As such it IS a mental health descriptor.

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    • Posted

      I agree and looking back at my post I have even confused myself with what I have said - blame it on the medicines!

      What I was trying to say was that it is a bit far fetched for mental health descriptor to be used when it has it's roots in a physical problem.

      If a physical disability could be used to claim a mental deficiency is like saying that whilst following a journey I get a headache and feel sick because of physical pain which in turn causes me to become stressed and consequently I lose all sense of direction. If that is acceptable then all and sundry would be making similar claims. 

      I genuinely have short term memory issues along side  

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