1. Community
  2. Bones, joints and muscles
  3. Frozen Shoulder

Orthopedic Surgeon Said, “Do NOT Do Physical Therapy In Painful Stage! Makes Worse”

Posted , 15 users are following.

Je_n
Je_n

Good morning all,

Finally saw an Orthopedic Specialist yesterday.  He told me that Physical Therapy was the worst thing you can do if you are still in the painfull stage of FS. Which is something myself and a lot of others on this website have suspected. He said it can auctually extend the FS and make it worse. The Ortho suggested doing a few of the excercises at home and if it hurts STOP.  I just wanted ot pass this along to everyone. This is something some of us learned the hard way. The doctor said this has to run it's course, there is nothing you can do to ride it out. 

The doctor also said that most Diabetics, such as myself a several others here, it takes about 3 years for us to cycle through Frozen Shoulder (FS). Guess I am only about 8 months in...Guess I am still in the freezing stage.  No surgery for me yet.. Going to try new treatments in a few months.

5 likes, 58 replies

58 Replies

Prev Next
  • annie1963
    annie1963 Je_n

    Posted

    I just saw my orthopedic specialist yesterday.  He explained that this condition isn't 'glamorous enough' to be studied, although there are so many people with it. Mostly women.  And diabetes makes it worse.  He explained the course of pain that gets worse then better,amount of time depending on whether you are diabetic or not.  He also said that doing Physio during the first part was probably not a good idea, and when it starts to get better, very gentle physio.  Since I am getting better, he said to do my own exercises at home, and stop if it hurt.  And the only bad thing he said was that in about 10 years or so I would probably develop it in the other shoulder spontaneously, and they have no idea why that happens, either.  I had already read enough on this forum to know all that he had told me, and was impressed that he said to listen to your body.  
    • midonda
      midonda annie1963

      Posted

      Well said and all so true, especially that part you wrote about FS not being a "glamorous"enough condition to properly study. That sums it up all too well.Great post. Mike.
    • Je_n
      Je_n annie1963

      Posted

      Sounds like a good doctor Annie. Especially that the doc was impressed that you learned about the condition. That's a very VERY rare medical professional. I have seen my share of doctors in my life and have only come across one who was interested in having a true dialogue. Hang on to that doc. Well, at least we all have some experience with FS when our surprise oposit shoulder freezes. Lol sorry, I have to make jokes, I'm taking myself too seriously today.
    • beverly52803
      beverly52803 annie1963

      Posted

      Annie, I see this is an old post, but I had FS on the right side then on the left some years later. The 1st was FAR worse than the 2nd. I was told (or read) that this is a very common condition with golfers; also it is an auto immune disease. My 1st one started when I raised myself up on my elbow in bed. I felt as though I had been stabbed...truly. Had never felt a pain like that. When I told the orthopedic guys they refused to acknowledge it could start like that(?)  I opted out of surgical intervention as was advised by my 2nd opinion sports doctor. It lasted 3 years, but it left me with chronic discomfort in neck and back for 12 years. What freed me of it all was intensive acupuncture. When the other shoulder began to freeze up, I got acupuncture and that seemed to move it along very quickly. 

      People aren't mentioning age, but I did read (as I suspected) more women got it post menopause.

    • stephen35024
      stephen35024 Je_n

      Posted

      I dislocated my shoulder falling from a working platform about 14 weeks ago.I had shoulder popped back in then sent home without sling on.I got out of car lifted arm up an shoulder come straight back out.so ended up back at casualty where they repeated procedure.I ended up with a sling on for six weeks with limited movement.I then started physio which as you can imagine is brutal but after 4 weeks of this I was told I probably had fs.it was confirmed by consultant 2 weeks later.I am now going in hydrotherapy pool as well as manipulation.slow progress and still cannot lie on shoulder as I still am conscious of if popping out again.also just started getting pain in other shoulder.anything to worry about??
    • beverly52803
      beverly52803 stephen35024

      Posted

      I had acupuncture to head off second one that was starting. Seemed to work as it went away. Can't attribute it to anything else. 

  • valerie06033
    valerie06033 Je_n

    Posted

    For me the "jury's still out"...

    Almost 4 months in stage one.  it was "secondary" to falling hard and breaking my hand/wrist (probably with shoulder soft tissure strain i didn't even initially notice) followed by arm inactivity.  My very knowledgeable PT said, "the shoulder is very unforgiving, and if it doesn't heal fast enough, the chronic (capsule) inflammation can set in."  So maybe that's why i'm having better "success of sorts"--because no diabetes and not primary(but rather secondary) adhesive capsulitis. Since it's an inflammatory condition and my body tends to be inflammatory, i've worked on that from diet (lots of green juicing & cutting sugar, plus lots of msm, also Prayer!). Since ortho told me inactivity has freezing set in, besides PT i stretch my arm out against wall from standing in doorway, easing into stretches but stretching every concievable way i can come up with, otherwise it's very stiff by morning.  So my result at this point is pretty painful trying to unsnap bra and if i lie on floor on my back with chicken wing arms out to side, bad side not only hurts but also won't lay flat.  But my reaching up has pretty much full mobility still. Got cortisone from top about a month ago helped only a little (i wonder if it didn't make it's way down enough to bottom of capsule where i'm more effected--And where my PT also thinks i have some tendonitis at the tricep insert).  i'm doing so well i guess, that after being diagnosed by TWO orthos with frozen shoulder, a third said "impossible, you don't have frozen shoulder" and rediagnosed me with bursitus with no other evidence (or even checking my various ranges of movement) just because it was "impossible" to reverse and no way would i have this mobility. i'd like to think he's right because it's not like it doesn't WANT to keep freezing down and i'm NOT in the clear...But even my PT who intitially refused to accept the diagnosis is convinced it's frozen shoulder now because it's the capsule that hurts (based on her movement testing).  And besides he doesn't know what he's talking about because sometimes it CAN be reversed in early stage says more recent medical literature, and particularly now they are recommending cortisone but RIGHT AWAY early or it won't help.  But if you can somehow bring down the inflammation in the very beginning it sometimes can be done.  i WISH i'd understood all this at that point but didn't have a diagnosis until maybe 6 weeks into it and THEN didn't believe the Doc until i saw the MRi come back clear (PT & i thought it was a labral tear at first).  Waiting still to see result of 2nd cortisone shot which is only 2 days old...

  • valerie06033
    valerie06033 Je_n

    Posted

    P.S. considerably less pain than in the beginning, and i can even sleep on it for a couple of hours sometmes now (impossible before)
  • Maddie64
    Maddie64 Je_n

    Posted

    Hello. I'm new here and have diabetes type 1 am hypothyroid, and started with this right frozen shoulder issue in September 2015. Started PT In February referred by my PCP, but couldn't handle the pain. This is terrible, I can't sleep a full night and try to save my arm from any painful movements so that I can make it through a days work. Last night I woke up screaming with horrible muscle spasms in my right arm. I had one ortho appointment on 4/13 and can't get them to call me back for a follow up. I'm booked with another group in a few weeks. Just wondering if anyone else gets inner elbow/biceps pain and numbness down to pinkie and ring finger? My arm is really bad and it's hard to get dressed, go to bathroom, or give myself insulin even. I don't want surgery or cortisone (cause it makes my sugars worse). Not sure what else I can do. Waiting it out seems crazy. Today I didn't think I'd make it a full day working but I did. My mom said she took Celebrex 20 years ago when she had fz. Maybe this is a hereditary thing. She doesn't have diabetes. Any advice?
    • Je_n
      Je_n Maddie64

      Posted

      Hi Maddie,

      So sorry you are also going through this FS (Frozen Shoulder) too. Yes, I also have the pain down my elbow and sometimes down into my hand. Everything I have read states that us Diabetics (on insulin especially for some reason) have much more dense scar tissue/Adhesians. This is actually a long-term Diabetic complication for us, so it's a little different and apparently harder to treat (per my doctor).  I have had the FS about the same amount of time as you. August, 2015 mine started.

      I have had  3 steroid injections, they were awful and reeked havoc on my blood sugar, I even had an allergic reaction so something in the last injection. They do help some of the people here, I can't say how much it has helped me. Frozen Shoulder seems to have a mind of it's own. 

      What medications do they have you on? Are you using the ice or damp heat or both? 

    • Maddie64
      Maddie64 Je_n

      Posted

      I'm only taking over the counter ibuprofen on my worst days, like today. I'm glad to hear someone else is having numbess running thru elbow into their fingers. I have my Endo appointment this week and hopefully she can give me more direction than what I've received. It seems once I said I was not interested in surgery or injections the ortho no longer seemed interested in helping me. I've spent a ton on MRI, X-rays, and now possibly an EMG(I think) with no treatment options yet. its been 8 months and I don't use this arm for almost anything now except typing and eating. Can't imagine how it can get worse than this. Is that possible? I pray that I'm close to "thawing stage" if that really exists.
    • karen25221
      karen25221 Maddie64

      Posted

      i got numbness thumb forefinger and middle finger left arm my physio pulled my neck it went BUT itcan be inflammation from the shoulder pushing on the nerves. i had surgery 4 weeks on wednesdayvafyer failed cortisone injections x2, hydrodilation. i jadxa sub acromial decompression and capsular release.but i still get pins and needls / numbness from the elbow in all my hand whjch i will speak to thecsurgeon about.My ROM is now good better than it was somedays are brill other days i get "post op ache " from over doing it but i stop have a rest carry on. Bearing in mind it takes a while as its not been used and itsbeen operated on but feeling positive
    • Je_n
      Je_n Maddie64

      Posted

      Hopefully you can have some access to pain killers and muscle relaxers. For me, it is the ONLY thing that helps. Over the counter pills don't do anything. Norco (pain killer) is helpful on very painful days. I like the muscle relaxer, especially at night so I can SLEEP... The Flexeril/muscle relaxter seems to keep things a little more level /not as many "pain spikes."  Maybe because I can auctually sleep.

      Frankly, there is not a lot they can do Maddie. I have had two doctors confirm that fact, they 'do not know much about FS, how to treat it or wht do do for us other than cortizone and surgery.'  I don't think surgery is an option for me either. My Ortho told me, if I had the surgery, I would have to have it several times because of the bad adhesians. Read some of the posts on this forum, it helps some, but I refuse to put my body through that too.  (I did not tell my Ortho that though. 

      A Diabetic on another forum said that she swore by accupuncture, I think everyone is different. 

       

      PS Those electric shocks for muscles gave me nasty head pain. Tens machines, I think they are called, but others here swear by them. 

       

    • Maddie64
      Maddie64 Je_n

      Posted

      Thanks. I'll update post with my Endo's thoughts. I'm hoping she's seen this more often as I've read 37% of diabetics have fz. I'll ask for the muscle relaxers then as the ibuprofen does nothing.
    • Maddie64
      Maddie64 karen25221

      Posted

      I've begged my husband to give me deep tendon massage in neck and shoulder but he's scared to hurt me. Regular massage doesn't work. Surgery would be my last resort but glad to hear things are looking up for you. I've also read about manipulation under anesthesia and that doesn't sound as bad as getting put under the knife. Thanks for your input.
    • Je_n
      Je_n Maddie64

      Posted

      Let me know what your Endo says. I don't have one at the moment. None of the 4 doctors I have seen have been very helpful. Hopefully your Endo has some answers. I am curious what they say.

      My understanding is that they usually preform both the Minipulation under Anesthesia then they go in laparoscopically and then cut the remaining scar tissue/adhesions. Then they have you preform some pretty painful Physical Therapy for however long to keep scar tissue from returning. That was the surgery I was referring too. I'm very afraid of how long that healing process will take as we diabetics heal much slower.

      Oh I'm not sure about deep tissue massage... Could be either the best... Or worst massage of your life... Keep me posted. I have considered it too.

      Ps. I do think one of the cortizone joint injections helped just a little at least with the constant severe pain. At least that comes and goes now. Or could just be the phase I'm in. Gosh, who knows, right?

    • karen25221
      karen25221 Maddie64

      Posted

      personally i wouldnt have MUA it moves it while you are asleep leaves all the scar tissue their. Ive 2 tiny holes obe for camera one for instrument they took photos and full of scar tissue. After tge joint was all pink clearcof scar tissue all gone all i get now is a bit of post op stiffness and aching x
    • karen25221
      karen25221

      Posted

      They donot with an arthroscope its like a laparascope but much smaller and used on joint.Arthroscopy is when they just go in for a look around most joint procedures are done by arthroscope keyhole shame you cant put pictures on my shoulder currently looks ok you cant even see where it was done you really havev to.look hard
    • Maddie64
      Maddie64 karen25221

      Posted

      Very informative. Geez sometimes I wish I could just be put to sleep until this gets better. None of these options sound good. Wish I could hear from people who passed the thawing stage to see if they ever got back to 100%. Ive heard it can take about 3 years for the whole process. God help me. I'll keep you guys updated with any news. Hopefully it isn't also diabetic neuropathy or something crazy. I think I'm googling myself with all the worst case scenarios.
    • karen25221
      karen25221 Maddie64

      Posted

      i was 22 months and opted forcsurgery in desperation even though i think i was starting to thaw id had enough andvmy work wasnt helpingit wad aggravating it.

      I used to work in Operating theatres few years back used to do orthopaedics x

    • Je_n
      Je_n Maddie64

      Posted

      Hi Maddie,

      Why not try posting a new thread if you are looking for different information. I started this tread about Physical Therapy so not sure if you are going to get the answers or responses you are seeking. Just a suggestion as you might have more of a chance of someone seeing your post, plus everyone is very nice to one another and responsive on this forum.

    • beverly52803
      beverly52803 Maddie64

      Posted

      Maddie, I had FS years ago and it did thaw after 3 years. Unfortunately, by that time my neck and back were pretty messed up from all the contortions I was putting myself through just trying to live a normal life doing physical chores. I was in constant discomfort (not the severe pain though) for 12 years. I tried acupuncture which saved me. Had at least 6...maybe 8...sessions and some of it got pretty painful, but I didn't care because if something so small caused such a reaction I felt it was doing something. After those treatments my shoulder, neck and back were finally normal. Some years later it started on my left side so I went immediatly for the acupuncture and it stopped. Have not seen any mention here of anyone trying this as a treatment, but I now swear by it!

      I also see a lot of people tried cortisone shots. My doctor would not give them to me because I was under 50 at the time and he said they could cause more problems then they solved. I have heard others say only the 1st works for various maladies.

      Just want you to know it does finally come to an end and you can be normal again.

    • beverly52803
      beverly52803 Maddie64

      Posted

      Someone on another thread highly recommended Xiaflex. I was not offered to me, but mine was years ago. Google it and ask the DR about it. Good luck.
Back to top
Prev Next

Report or request deletion

Thanks for your help!

We want the community to be a useful resource for our users but it is important to remember that the community are not moderated or reviewed by doctors and so you should not rely on opinions or advice given by other users in respect of any healthcare matters. Always speak to your doctor before acting and in cases of emergency seek appropriate medical assistance immediately. Use of the community is subject to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy and steps will be taken to remove posts identified as being in breach of those terms.