Patches

Of course, it has to be a personal decision and family medical history may well influence that but the official UK recommendations from NICE state that Oestrogen‑only HRT causes little or no change in the risk of breast cancer. It does seem to be combined HRT that has the risk - but it is still very small. It does have very positive benefits for me - and I suspect a lot of other women - and I've decided that, for me, the benefits outweigh any slight risks. Some women sail through the menopause with few or short-lived problems, for others of us, the effects are more severe and carry on a lot longer. If you have doubts, do your research from reputable medical sources and make your own mind up.

I have been quite happily on oestradiol since 1990 after surgical menopause. It is the most wonderful necessity for me and without it I am a total physical and mental wreck. I do not fear the myths that some drs and non drs spread. I had to educate my gp because she only knew of the old research that was finally admitted to being fraudulent.

If you are going to get breast cancer, you are going to get it anyway. Why are young women getting breast cancer? - they are not using hrt for menopause. My maternal aunt had breast cancer and she never used oestrogen or any other form of hrt. Her lifestyle was very different to mine - her diet, alcohol, smoking, etc.

There are a lot of research out there that reports positively on the benefits of oestrogen, oestradiol in particular. It is best to read medical research, not blogs. In these forums it is best to speak of actual personal experience.

From 2002 to 2008 I had an undiagnosed prolactinoma (small tumour on my pituitary gland) which gave me 6 years of living hell, because the excess prolactin was causing my oestradiol to be ineffective. My symptoms never went away in 8 months. It was not even gradual, the symptoms were bad from day 1 till I was diagnosed 6 years later. The medication cabergoline caused a miraculous recovery - reducing the tumour and the prolactin, and life was sweet again.

So for those whose body needs oestradiol as mine does, don't let other people put you off using it.

I'm sorry about your experience with cancer but its wonderful to have a great recovery like that.

Regarding HRT: at first I thought the best information is from others and their personal experiences but as you say, the variable of genetics and lifestyle do make a lot of difference... as does age, other health related issues and medications. the links I posted are not from people who manufacture and market oesterine. the links are from scientific research journals under strictly controlled guidelines, concerning targeted age groups. I can tell you didnt even read them. I wish I had read them before I overwhelmed my thyroid, lost my hair and just had a biopsy today. Consider that a doctor makes money selling oesterine and in some cases, injecting a pellet or giving an injection. if you also research government crackdown on supplements, you will find many companies make claims abt miraculous healing but come to find out, bad things develop. Sort of like vitiman D3; dogs died from toxic levels in dog food. the FDA had to step in for multiple recalls. my doctor put me on 6000 D3 and when my RA specialist saw high levels he took me OFF ALL SUPPLEMENTS. he also said that every patient of his reported no benefits of HRT and not to do it again. he is q very respected doctor in SanAntonio. many awards of distinction. I tend to listen to him.

I didn't see your links before they were removed but have read a lot of research and articles online regarding HRT - being very careful of their sources. It's also worth checking the dates of any research - some of the early trials were badly flawed and more recent evidence contradict those earlier findings. That said, for every specialist that recommends HRT, you'll probably find another that doesn't - even the experts can't agree and many doctors themselves aren't up-to-date with the latest evidence.

The NICE recommendations I mentioned are from The National Institute for Health and Care Excellence - the UK body that advises our GPs on prescribing and treatment. They take into account current trials and research and detail any risks and benefits involved. Our healthcare system is very different in the UK from the US and we don't tend to get treatments pushed on us - sometimes the opposite and we need to persuade our GPs to prescribe.

I'm not sure what criteria your specialist has for saying he saw no benefits. I agree that there is no proof that it can stave off dementia or certain other conditions but for treatment of severe menopausal symptoms, there are certainly benefits for many women. Just read a bit from the thread on here - forced off HRT at 60 - where many women are left feeling dreadful after unsympathetic doctors stop their treatment.

Again, it has to be a personal decision, weighing up the risks and benefits for the individual. We're all different and there's no one right solution for everyone.

wonder why they would remove current research info that opposes. my specialist said his patients reported no benefits. regarding RA and osteoporosis, diabetes and other diseases involved in his patients. yes. I agree to the various traumatic symptoms of menopause. been there and made it thru but without much suffering. not just mine either! but a friend of mine suggested black cohosh, wild yam, mallow root, valerian root helps. again, herbal sups. my point with the links was to show most recent research proved a correlation between breast cancer and oesterine specifically. this is more prevalent in older women. I did not understand it to have meant women who were predisposed to get it either. it is something very important to weigh since it can be life threatening whereas menopausal symptoms are not. I believe my links were from UK as well because they are taking the initiative in research and less in the marketing of oesterine. I am grateful they care so much abt the health of their peoples. Good day and thank you for writing

No, I have not read anything about oesterine. Oesterine is no longer available according to posts on the internet. There were no links to Oesterine - one of your posts was totally deleted. Oesterine has never been reported, recorded, or associated with menopausal HRT in anything that I have read. I have never heard of it, I have no idea what it is - Premarin was bad enough although some women are quite happy with it.

But what I have read are books written by menopause and hormone specialists, and a lot of medical research by menopausal specialists and gynecologists. None were written by Rheumatology specialists.

PItuitary gland tumours are not cancerous but affect hormones in a serious way, including thyroid, human growth factor, as well as testosterone and oestrogen. I have always used oestradiol which is the same as our natural oestradiol although of course it has to be chemically made copying the genetic fingerprint of a plant that provides it.

BTW, I cannot absorb Vit D, so my dr prescribed a practioner's brand of Vit D3 forte drops which immediately elevated my blood levels while tablets did not (and I live in a sunny climate). I take 6 drops which is 6000 units every day, and my thyroid is just fine.

I don't know about dogs (animals often cannot consume what humans do - take chocolate for instance - that is toxic for them), but it (Vit D) is imperative for humans, as well as Vit B12. They both make the greatest difference to human health and well being, apart from Vit C. My husband cannot absorb Vit B12 and needs 3 monthly injections (started off weekly). Some men require testosterone to keep some strength, mental health, reduce fatigue, etc.

You say your specialist is a Rheumatologist - well his specialty is of that. I have had my hips replaced because of osteo-necrosis caused by undiagnosed haemochromatosis. But I don't know anything about anything that a Rheumatologist treats. It may be that oestrogen does not benefit that problem. But it is known to reduce osteoporosis, and help prevent heart disease. Without it, post menopausal women who do not have oestrogen support, die of heart disease at the same rate as men. That has been studied, researched and proven.

Women have died as a result of non taking HRT (heart), or committed suicide, have serious bone disease, or lost their marriages and family, their house, and become financially destitute. We are not all the same as you, and we are all not the same as each other. Our genes and metabolisms differentiate greatly.

I hope you find a happy place with your decision but it is not a happy place for all of us.

The closest information I can find regarding 'oesterine' is 'ostarine' which is a dodgy steroid for body builders??? I don't see any relationship to hormones for menopause.

Yes, when I re-read I started wondering that myself - initially thinking 'oesterine' might be a US brand of oestrogen (I think the US spell it estrogen), or something like that.Is it just a mistaken spelling?

As for other "natural" remedies, many of these haven't been through the same rigorous testing that is done on prescribed medication. Black cohosh, for instance has been associated with possible risks of liver damage. I'm not saying these remedies are all dangerous for everyone - but they also need to be taken with caution.

If you have "made it thru but without much suffering", then you are lucky. For some of us the effects of menopause are more severe and long-lasting, effecting both our physical and mental health - and rubbing off on our families too. The effects on health of lack of sleep due to night sweats, for instance, should not be underestimated. We all need to know any possible risks - but also to weigh these up with any benefits for our personal circumstances. It's good to have a healthy debate on these matters and I appreciate other points of view. This gives others the chance to weigh things up for themselves and decide what is right for them.

thank you for responding. had not read that abt black cohosh. however I go back to my previous statement: "WITH much suffering" not without, do not diminish my ordeal, bc it was all of the symptoms mentioned.

the main point is all of those symptoms ate temporary not life threatening as breast cancer IS. please take this into consideration when making a choice.

I think if there were a gold trophy or monetary prize after living through menopause, the "change" might be more worth it. sort of like men in a joust. cant be any worse than how we feel after the rage and torment.

Spurgeon 1 - We (me an Sheryl) had a question about what you meant by "oesterine" - this is not any form of HRT as far as I can see - did you mean "oestrogen" (estrogen)?

We have strayed from the original poster's (Caroline) question, which was asking about HRT patches - specifically Elleste solo. Caroline has obviously made a decision to try these for her symptoms and my initial reply was to state that I have been on these for almost 12 years now, without issue. The "solo" part of the name indicates that these are oestrogen only and not combined HRT - i.e suitable for those of us who have had a hysterectomy. If you read any studies, including recent ones, the risks of breast cancer (though still relatively small) are for combined HRT - e.g . with the addition of progesterone. Quote -Oestrogen‑only HRT causes little or no change in the risk of breast cancer. In addition, for any other potential risks, patches pose less of a risk that HRT tablets.

For me, the menopause symptoms were bad and appeared to be more than temporary. I analysed all the risks and benefits for me personally and decided to carry on taking HRT for the foreseeable future, for my own physical and mental well-being and quality of life. If you are or were on combined HRT, rather that oestrogen alone and the breast cancer risk worries you, then I understand your decision but others of us have different circumstances and decisions to make.

wow. sorry for the confusion. my phone plugs that word in for me and I've been missing it as I go too fast. and it does not improve osteo anything, nor heart disease. As I wrote, his PATIENTS reported there were no benefits. He relayed his findings as a specialist in his field. but I can see you are getting very defensive so I will refrain from trying to warn you of potential danger as you do not want to know. I am not a bringer of bad tidings but the new research is there and waiting for you to evaluate it

pharmaceutical journals,breast cancer institute, bigger brains than I. being angry won't change the facts and I have had my second pellet but will be making my decision on a fully objective, view as one should.

I guess you read different medical research to myself and others. Your rheumatologist patients may be saying that hrt is not benefiting their rheumatology or whatever. HRT benefits thousands of women as you should have read on these posts. Often it is a matter of getting the right type and dose.

I have been on oestrodiol only going on for 29 years now. I don't have breast cancer, osteoporosis or heart disease or any other diseases threatened by those who believe otherwise. Except for the 6 years when my oestrogen was ineffective because of the prolactinoma. My menopause symptoms never went away during that period - 6 years - some women have reported more. Your 8 months is nothing in comparison. I am not lucky - but well informed and well read. Your so-called facts are incorrect - they are not new they are old and outdated. Please don't be condescending to us and claim we don't want to know the truth - this is your truth only.

You will find medical research that reports that oestradiol only does NOT cause breast cancer. Progesterone has its own problems and I am glad I don't have to take it. I feel for the women who do have to take it. There is medical research that found that ovary removal also protects breasts as well from cancer. I am not including those with the BRACS gene. BTW, my maternal aunt survived her breast cancer despite her unhealthy life style. It is not always a death sentence, and as I said, she did not use HRT of any form.

We have read all your bad tidings before over and over again by those who are against HRT and think everyone else should be. We have already weighed up the risks and found they are overrated (in my case because I have chosen to use oestradiol products only including the pellets.) Women new to menopause do not need the stress of unnecessary bad tidings, and have done their own reading and sought advice from doctors and their drs are positive about it - they have read the up to date research. Unfortunately, there are some drs who are still sprouting the ill tidings.

Transdermal is the most safest form of oestradiol and this is what Caroline is using. Please leave her in her happy place as you have found yours.

Totally agree with you Sheryl. I've double checked in the last few days, since reading this and found an up-to-date cancer journal that stated exactly as we said. Any risk is with combined HRT containing progesterone - oestrogen alone does not have the same risk factor. Even that risk is not so great, when all circumstances are taken into account, to be a reason stop combined HRT for most women.

Some GPs don't seem to like HRT - some are more sympathetic to it's use - but I would rather follow the advice of a specialised gynaecologist than a rheumatologist. Specialists (however good) only specialise in their own field and it's probably not surprising that HRT isn't a miracle cure for all other conditions.

I'm not angry or defensive (other than trying to defend facts) - yes, we all must seek and weigh up those facts and make the right decision for our own health and well being. My own decision to carry on with oestrogen is totally objective, knowing the facts and attempting to keep up-to-date with any new studies. You have doubts and have come to different conclusions and I respect that - especially if you have been using combined HRT. Both me, Sheryl and the original poster, Caroline, are oestrogen only, so do not have the risks of progesterone to take into account.

It would be rather stupid if we went to a rheumatologist for HRT advice and to a gyneacologist for rheumatoid arthritis!! The specialists I know would send me off to the appropriate specialist for the problem. I would be very suspect of any specialist who interfered in another's field.

I also have the support of an endocrinologist who monitors my prolactin, and is a specialist in hormones controlled by the pituitary gland, including oestrogen. I never get a negative word about HRT from him.

Hi Sheryl,

I've been following this thread and so glad to see that their is women out there that get it. They have done their research! After reading your response here I agree 100%. Women after menopause are at greater risk to getting breast cancer, strokes, heart attacks ( yes at the same rate as men after menopause), if they are not replenishing their hormones. Why do you think that is? Estrogen, kept us protected all these years. After menopause the good estrogen is gone. Women are getting way too much breast cancer after they reach their menopause years and the majority of them probably didn't take any HRT. If you are taking bio identical hormones you are keeping your body protected. Doctors have not studied outside what they were taught in med school. Med school taught them HRT is bad based on the flawed women's health initiative study from many years ago using synthetic HRT . Most of them don't know how to begin treating women going into peri and most def what to do for women after they hit menopause. That is sad because many women are suffering needlessly at a time when life should and can be joyful. Why would hormones ( the right ones) all of a sudden be so deadly to us when our bodies have been full of them keeping us well our whole life? Makes no sense! Unless they are put on synthetic HRT, where the real culprit lies. Sadly doctors still prescribe these. Getting the right doctor that knows what their doing and getting you on the right hormones that your body needs is key. I was on compounded transdermal creams for three years and most recently started pellets. I will stay on my hormones the rest of my life.

Yes, we really have to educate ourselves in order to get the best hormone - we cannot expect all gps to get it right. I was lucky I had such a forward thinking gyneacologist who did the surgery - but even so I read everything I could lay my hands on (no internet back then) once we discussed it presurgery (when he implanted the pellet at the same time) and if I found that what he was proposing was against what I had read, I would have questioned it.

As you say, oestrogen is not alien to our bodies and luckily we are in an age where bio-identical oestrogen is available.

I have read some of the strangest things done by drs on this forum - like women having to wait a while after surgery before the dr will prescribe hormones. Why? it is better to keep up the momentum for less problems.

I am never asked to stop taking oestrogen before other surgeries. I assume it is because they think the woman will get clots. Well, there are other ways to deal with that - anti clot medications, which I have never had to take. Also, they put some sort of leggings on my lower legs which repeatedly fill up with air, then empties - imitating walking pressure. To go on and off oestrogen just creates problems.

While I did not think so at the time, in retrospect, I feel lucky that I had surgical menopause and did not have to go through peri menopause. Although, looking back, I might have been having those problems without knowing what it was, because I was still heavily menstruating. My need for a hysterectomy was because I had a low grade cancerous tumour outside of my uterus, and heaps of endometriosis in my ovaries and abdomen.

This was confirmed by laparoscopy. I suspected I had Endometriosis during my early twenties but it was not investigated because women are not supposed to know what is going on with their bodies. As one grows older and more experienced, we realise that assertion is necessary.