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PMR and prior immune disorders

Posted , 13 users are following.

Danrower
Danrower

Is there a correlation between PMR and those who have had prior histories of immune (auto or otherwise) disorders ( including but not limited to asthma, skin rashes or symptoms, systemic, arthiritis) I wonder about  patterns.

As I have mentioned, I think many times the beginnings of PMR are stimulated by stress and trauma. I wonder if there are commen auto immune markers or conditions which are precursors to PMR.

I have had chronic eczema (Dyshidrosis), hands, backs of knees and elbows, since a child, and vitIligo since the teens, a skin condition which causes spontaneous skin pigment loss, sometimes partial repigmentation occors. Less noticable on light skin.

Gosh, we tell all here, don't we?

4 likes, 27 replies

27 Replies

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  • EileenH
    EileenH Danrower

    Posted

    Anyone who has an autoimmune disorder is at a higher risk of developing a second, yes. Don't know if the propensity increases with each additional disorder though.
  • steveBN1
    steveBN1 Danrower

    Posted

    How strong the correlations are between developing different autoimmune conditions I don't know. When I developed PMR my GP said it was not uncommon for people with Type 1 diabetes like me to develop other auto' conditions, such as PMR. He mentioned Crohn's disease and Lupus, just to be reassuringlol. Actually, he's an excellent GP and knew I wouldn't be upset. (Thankfully, I'm still off the prednisolone nearly a year and a half after the treatment ended.) I wonder if people with PMR are at higher risk of getting T1 diabetes. Hmm.
  • julian.
    julian. Danrower

    Posted

    From a 2010 paper by Cojocaru. The combination of at least three autoimmune diseases in the same patient has defined as multiple autoimmune syndrome (MAS)........ About 25 percent of patients with autoimmune diseases have a tendency to develop additional autoimmune diseases. ....... In MAS, patients often have at least one dermatological condition, usually vitiligo or alopecia areata.

    I only have two (that I know of).

    • VickieS
      VickieS julian.

      Posted

      Interesting. I also have two (that I know of). I developed a large area of alopecia areata on the back of my head at the hairline about 8 mos. before my first PMR symptoms showed up. Luckily, after 9 mos it filled back in and hasn't returned. I've had Raynaud's syndrome since I was 17 yrs old and since that goes along with other autoimmune things, maybe I should count that too.

       

  • noninoni
    noninoni Danrower

    Posted

    I have recently been reading genetics articles for autoimmune disesase.  All kinds of autoimmune diseases can be traced to  alleles of the HLA gene locus on chromosome 6p21.  6p21 means chromosome 6, p is the short arm of the chromosome, and 21 is the region of the chromosome. HLA means the human leukocyte antigen. These diseases include RA, Lupus, Crohn's, PMR, GCA, etc. etc.  An allele is an an alternate form of the gene, and there are many alternate forms of these HLA alleles.  I continue to read. I have found a few papers that discuss the genetics of PMR and GCA, but I am not yet clear enough on what they mean to report them. HLA-DRB1*04 seems to be particularly associated with PMR and GCA, but I am not sure yet if the association is strong enough to be diagnostic. 

          

    • tina-uk_cwall
      tina-uk_cwall noninoni

      Posted

      Hello all, great! I don't think I've had  an auto immune condition in the past but I suppose there maybe many auto immune conditions that clear up by themselves or that people live with without ever knowing about it?

      but when I was diagnosed with PMR there was a question re my liver results that point towards possible auto immune liver condition. Short of taking a biopsy the only way they can tell if i really do have this additional auto immune condition is that it will rear its head above the water when the preds that I'm taking for the PMR are a low enough dose to control the PMR but are too low to control the auto immune liver condition. 

      So far as I'm reducing the preds, 8.5 currently, my liver results are returning rather confusing, one month great, one month not. So their diagnosis of auto immune liver condition currently remains unsolved. However, I do have mild non alcoholic fatty liver and they are now leaning towards the varying liver results as more that related than auto immune liver condition, (yippee!).

      so, if for example I have only ever had 1 auto immune condition, PMR, are you saying that even if I fully recover, well remission, I could be in line to be back of the gps with yet another auto immune condition in the future?

      regards, christina 

    • EileenH
      EileenH tina-uk_cwall

      Posted

      Raised liver markers are common in PMR with no other cause. And are mentioned in the literature - but a few doctors have expressed surprise when handed the paper.

      Mine were raised at the beginning of the major flare that eventually got me onto pred. I was sent for an ultrasound - totally normal, nothing to worry about they said. Apparently there were far more normal liver U/S's at the time because it was when they first got so scared about liver disease - any slightly not quite normal liver marker resulted in queues for U/S which were so bad they had to run evening clinics!

      Yup - you are a higher risk of another. But you can also have PMR more than once. I wonder which is worse - having it for 10 years like me or having it, getting off pred and then 3 or 4 years down the line having it again...

      Yes. I know, I'm a misery guts redface

    • tina-uk_cwall
      tina-uk_cwall EileenH

      Posted

      Hey, misery guts! Is it really your birthday today? If so I would also like to send you my best wishes and thank you for all your help and expertise. Have a great day. Regards, christina 
    • tina-uk_cwall
      tina-uk_cwall EileenH

      Posted

      Hi Eileen, oops!! Sorry, still hope you have a good day. Regards, christina 
    • Danrower
      Danrower noninoni

      Posted

      Hi noninoni, 

      a bit latin to me, but...

      Is there a relationship these alleles and the results of blood tests, specifically, leukocytes, as mine have been high?

    • EileenH
      EileenH Danrower

      Posted

      Leucocyctes rise in response to pred. Were they also high pred-pred?

       

    • EileenH
      EileenH

      Posted

      pre-pred of course!

       

  • pat38625
    pat38625 Danrower

    Posted

    Hi Dan, don't really know if ME/CFS is an auto immune disorder.  I think it is debatable from what I have read over the years but am not 100% sure.  I was diagnosed with ME 14 years ago and looking back I would definitely say it was brought on my major/chronic stress.

    The same with PMR when I was diagnosed in November last year.  Major unavoidable stress.  The one common denominater was stress.  Don't know if that throws any light on the subject or not.  Regards Pat

    • EileenH
      EileenH pat38625

      Posted

      The emerging role of autoimmunity in myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/cfs).Morris G1, Berk M, Galecki P, Maes M.

      Publlished in Molecular Neurobiology 2014

      There are a lot of things that suggest there is an autoimmune component - you can read the Abstract but unfortunately - like most stuff these days - it's behind a paywall.

    • pat38625
      pat38625 EileenH

      Posted

      Hi Eileen, thanks for the info on ME/CFS.  My gp a couple of months ago was talking about (i cannot remember what Sunday newspaper it was) where she read about a blood test that can now detect ME/CFS  She said it was something to do with Gamma something or other.  I wasn't really listening to be perfectly honest.  Anyway thanks again.   Pat
    • EileenH
      EileenH pat38625

      Posted

      Gamma interferon I think.

      Probably this: "First biological proof that ME is real found by scientists

      Columbia University has found that changes to the immune system represent ‘the first robust physical evidence’ that ME is a biological illness rather than a psychological disorder"

      in the Telegraph - copy and paste that into google to read the article.

      I think it is really interesting - because I had something that in retrospect was almost certainly ME when I was in my mid-20s. It fits all the main criteria but in those days it was "yuppie flu" and very new. It also took 6 months to get to see a specialist by which time the worst was just past and I could stand for more than a few minutes and the blood tests they COULD do then were back to normal. "Must have been a virus" he concluded.

      I had remnants of the fatigue for over 4 years, then developed awful night sweats and was eventually put on HRT which helped the fatigue and sweats a lot. Then one scare about HRT too many and I decided to stop it. It was only months later that the PMR symptoms appeared.

      So - were they really all the same thing with slightly different expressions. Or have I had 3 different autoimmune disorders? The only real "same" has been the fatigue and sweats.

    • pat38625
      pat38625 EileenH

      Posted

      Yes Eileen that's it Gamma interferon.  Also that's exactly what my doc said, now there is physical evidence and it's not all in the mind.  I cannot say for sure but I think a lady llike yourself would know now with hindsight and 20/20 vision that it most definitely was ME and it was labelled "yuppie flu"  Me goes back as far as Florence Nightingale having it.  Also the Royal Free Marsden Hospital in the 50s the staff began to suffer and not just the patients and it was ME.  These are remnents of my reading and researching ME 14 years ago and Dr. Charles Sheppard wrote a comprehensive book on it.  I also had the night sweats really bad and was bedridden on and off for approx 3 years.  My body and mind had had enough.  Stress. stress and more stress.  Then PMR joins in or takes over.  If I could choose between ME or PMR, I would definitely go for ME and that was not pleasant either.  I do think there is a link somewhere.  Extreme fatigue, night sweats, cognitive impairment, memory problems.  But I have never ever experienced the pain of the inflammation in PMR.  Thanks again Eileen and you say your a Leo, well I am straight after you, I am a virgo.  
    • EileenH
      EileenH pat38625

      Posted

      Unfortunately it's going to take forever to persuade non-specialist doctors it IS a real disease. What they learn at a particular stage of their training remains imbedded and - for many at least - immoveable and immutable.

      It is beginning to happen in PMR - because a few people go into medical schools and talk to the students about what it is like to have PMR. Partly as a result of our lobbying a study has been done - and published recently - about the impact PMR has on life because of the disability it causes. It's called "I suddenly felt I'd aged: A qualitative study of patient experiences of polymyalgia rheumatica (PMR)" by Helen Towhig, a GP near Sheffield.

      Unfortunately it's behind a paywall so most patients can't read it - but you could get your doctor to read it if they don't appreciate the amount of pain and disability we have. It's great - it reports interviews with elderly Yorkshire men and women and I can hear the accent in the quotes! 

    • pat38625
      pat38625 EileenH

      Posted

      Thanks for the informaion, very interesting.  My gp has left the practice and a new dr., has taken over.  I have seen her once and it was about A Acid.  She referred me to this website and another one.  Too early yet to say she's on the ball with PMR.  I shall wait and see.
    • Danrower
      Danrower EileenH

      Posted

      Hi Eileen,

      Is there a way that this site can gain access through the "pay walls" to develope a library for reading by the members here? We both agree there are articles that would be beneficial. What are the rules/laws that govern "sharing" these articles, if an individual legally aquires a copy?

      Thanks,

      Dan 

    • EileenH
      EileenH Danrower

      Posted

      I've no idea at all - you could message the moderator and ask him perhaps. The site itself is unlikely to do so - paying the fees for access to online journals is a LOT of money and there are a LOT of journals they'd need to access for the entire site.
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