PMR and slow tapering plan
Posted , 12 users are following.
after reading advice from Eileen and others regarding my bombing out at 4 1/2 mg. pred last summer and again this summer, I have come up with a slower tapering plan to get me over the hurdle and help my adrenals adjust to the lower doses of pred. A little background: started pred for PMR in September 2016; both times when I got to 4 1/2 mg. pred (using the 84 day dsns when I reached around 7)--bone crushing fatigue and stiffness and soreness set in. Soooo...here is my plan:
-Go back to 6 mg. pred, stay for 2 months to calm things down. (I went back up to 6 mg. pred 2 days ago; the difference already is amazing.)
-using dsns, reduce to 5 1/2 mg., 84 days.
-stay at 5 1/2 mg. for 2 months.
-using dsns, reduce to 5 mg., 84 days.
-stay at 5 mg. for 6-8 months.
now I'm up to the year 2020. Not what I had planned for myself, but what do you think? Too slow? Try to shorten the 2 month stopping points? Listening to my body doesn't work too well because obviously when I tried to reduce before, I thought I was doing just that, doing well enough to reduce, but then at 4 1/2: whammo! I'm not a patient person when it comes to this illness, who Is? And the side effects of pred although supposedly negligible at lower doses are taking the toll on my body. thank you for your thoughts.
0 likes, 6 replies
EileenH Twopies
Posted
nick67069 Twopies
Posted
Twopies nick67069
Posted
Yes, thank you, i understand that, I just want to know whether my plan to GET to at least 4.5 (or whatever level I need) sounds reasonable or do I need to be that cautious? I know also that we must listen to our bodies but I was not receiving warning signs that things were off track until I hit 4.5. It was the deathly fatigue and weakness that did me in which seems to be a sign of poor adrenal function.
So so my question perhaps really should be: when I use the dsns 84 day method, should I use the 30 day stopping points (which it seems a lot of,people do and which didn't give me warning signs before) or is it best to extend the stopping points to say, 60 days?
Or maybe my question should be: is the adrenal fatigue inevitable no matter what? Having reached it, I was advised here on this forum to increase the pred to a level where I could function again; I did, and it has helped. I want to sensibly get to a level where my body will accept reductions so am wondering what is the best way to go about it. Thank you!
EileenH Twopies
Posted
You aren't really likely to get warning signs BEFORE you get too low - the difference between enough and not enough can be just 1/2mg so it can happen suddenly. I once posted a thread called "What a difference 1/2mg makes..."
Slowness like this is also unlikely to make much difference - if 4.5mg is where you get PMR symptoms you need 5mg for the PMR. If you only get the deathly fatigue at 4.5mg and can still function otherwise and can accept the fatigue then sticking at 4.5mg for a few months should really be low enough to prod the adrenal glands into wakefulness. One top UK PMR rheumy encourages his patients to stick at 5mg for up to 9 months - and then finds the rest of the reduction tends to go better. If you persist with even a desperately slow reduction before the deathly fatigue at a given dose (4.5mg here) has resolved at least partially you will just feel worse and worse - and if your adrenal glands aren't responding then you are also putting yourself at risk of being ill. Cortisol (or pred) is essential for your body to function properly and about 4.5-5 is a reasonably safe low dose.
But it really all depends on whether you can function I got to 4mg some time ago and that was just about OK. 3.5mg wasn't though - I couldn't think straight, I could barely walk around the flat never mind anything else so I went back to 5mg. As it happened a flare materialised a few months later - so the question became academic.
nick67069 Twopies
Posted
I had PMR since October 2015 and thru careful taper got to 3mg and was stable, so I thought. While on the trip to EU ( I live in Japan), I got this hand pain, symetrical and had trouble opening jar or screw on the bottle ( basically had what I call drinking problem
). After returning to Japan I saw rheumi and he was thinking that I may have a start of RA but was not sure and told me to increase dose from 3 to 8-9mg and see him in 4 weeks. I was on 9mg for week or so and all symptoms were gone... I quickly reduce to 6mg and then taper further. This is when I develop the following procedure:
When I wake up, before get out of bed I start test/stretch. I check if my wrist is OK, if my fingers are OK then I check my hips and leg muscles. I check for stiffness and flexibility and I note ANY change.
Currently I am on 3mg in the evening and 1mg in the morning. This morning I felt that my hands are stiff and some pain, so I increased my dose and took extra 1mg in the morning.
I hope this helps you to develop something for yourself. I do it in the morning because I noticed that my symptoms are usually worst in the morning, so it is easier to notice the change from day to day.
lodgerUK_NE Twopies
Posted
Pred since Sept 2016, not so long in the great scheme of things, batting average for remission is 2-3 years and it can be much longer. PMR has a mind of its own, it comes when it wants and goes into remission when it wants. We just have to grin and bear it and don't rush it - you can't if just comes back and bites you.
However I would ask, have you had a Synacthen Test - put it in your search engine.
You can send me a PM for another plan which is practically the same as Eileens DSNS which has a name, Tortoise and Hare (guess which one won the race).
Eileen DSNS has also had a small research test done on it and it came out OK in those tiny results. You can read up on it in the 'Summer Newsletter - You are Not Alone' on the of PMR & GCAuk North East Support Charity Reg No 1138409 website.