Problems diagnosed as Osteoarthritis CAN be cured in some cases.
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If you're a proactive individual that's been diagnosed with incurable Osteoarthritis it's *possible* that you can in fact beat the diagnosis and get back to full fitness and functionality. It happened to me.
I should add that I was diagnosed at age 42 and was very fit and active at the time. I think it might be very different for older individuals, people who's condition is advanced, or people that don't enjoy exercise.
Here's my story. I can't make any promises that it'll be the same for you. But I will if people are interested share some of the resources that helped me to beat what I considered to be a life shattering diagnosis, for which I was assured there was no possibility of a cure. I don't know whether to believe I was misdiagnosed and never actually had Osteoarthritis, or whether they're wrong when they say Osteoarthritis is incurable. What I can say is that I was told my symptoms were 'classic' and that the diagnosis was certain - that my symptoms couldn't be explained by anything else. The whole area is so poorly defined and slap-dash that it's impossible to tell. Either way, it means there's at least hope of beating it if that's what you want to try and do.
I've spent 8 years battling against the people that were hell bent on brow beating me into believing I had Hip Osteoarthritis when I knew I didn't. My real problems were ignored - I was essentially left to rot. I was treated like an idiot. Told I researched too much. That I was in denial. Told that I was making my problems worse by training to keep myself fit, strong and active. Told I should swim and cycle and give up all other sports. I was asked repeatedly "You've had numerous experts try to help you - don't you think one of them would have succeeded if this really was curable?".
Finally I've been vindicated. I figured it out for myself. A simple, treatable muscle imbalance causing all of my problems. Obviously I wanted to let the people know that have tried to help over the years. I expected them to be amazed - a breakthrough that could help lots of people. These cases that we think are incurable can in fact be fixed!!
My excitement was met with apathy: [paraphrasing]. "The reality is that most people are inactive and unwilling to put in the work needed to address muscle imbalances like this. Even if the correct diagnosis was made, for most people the end result would be the same. People who are willing to put in the work necessary to reverse the condition are so few and far between that they aren't statistically significant to make it worth the cost of training and research. We were unable to solve your problem because we've not been adequately trained to do so. But well done for hanging in and figuring it out yourself."
Why wasn't I told this BEFORE I discovered the solution for myself? Why did they try to convince me I had incurable OA when they knew how determined I was to beat it?
Here's the reality as I now understand it (as it's been explained to me). This may not reflect every health professionals view, but it is a summary of what I've been told by various health professionals:
GP's are responsible for diagnosing OA. Yet they know very little about bio mechanics (unless they've got an interest and educate themselves).
They don't understand the condition in great detail, but they don't need to. They're working to a script. It seems not to be widely known who writes that script (so who to go to with questions or doubts)...which is a little bit of a worry.
Some know that often it's a misdiagnosis - more forward thinking GP's are aware that it's frequently a treatable soft tissue issue. But like the physios, think it doesn't matter too much as for most patients it makes no difference. They lead inactive lifestyles and any attempts to restore them to full functionality will fail. There is little point in wasting resources trying to give an accurate diagnosis when the end result will usually be the same regardless. So OA is the 'catch all' category you put them in. There is no cure - you manage with drugs and operate if and when necessary.
Even when someone is in great shape, keen to be proactive in their treatment and has an active lifestyle worth preserving there's nothing to be gained in finding the correct diagnosis as there is no one to refer them to to get it fixed. People worth bothering with (because they can be restored to a good, active life) aren't statistically significant enough to be worth the research and training needed to put systems in place to help them.
So, the GP's make the OA diagnosis despite not necessarily knowing much about OA. Who are the specialists then if you're determined to find the real cause of your joint stiffness or pain? Well, there's a bit of an oversight there. There is no one.
Orthopedic surgeons know about surgery. If your problem is an easily curable soft tissue issue they probably won't know enough to detect it. They may well put you under the knife unnecessarily. Or tell you that you have an incurable problem that will deteriorate over time - that your active life is over (that's what happened to me). But this is more a case of them forcing your problem into something that fits their specialist knowledge. Not a proper diagnosis.
Then there's physios. They aren't trained to detect and treat curable soft tissue problems that lead to joint wear and might otherwise be diagnosed as OA. However, some are better than others. Some might actually be very capable. It's pot luck. I think it's unlikely to find someone with these skills working for the NHS, but I may be wrong. I have been told (by a physio) that the failure rate in these cases is 99% within the NHS.
There are people out there that do know how to diagnose and treat these soft tissue problems. And there's plenty of info on this on the internet that you can use to help yourself. It's down to the individual to separate the wheat from the chaff. Contrary to what we are led to believe, OA isn't an incurable degenerative disease. Strictly speaking it doesn't exist. It's a 'catch all' diagnosis used to put people with joint problems in when there aren't resources and training to find out and fix what's really wrong with them. Contrary to what we're led to believe, there is no category of the medical profession with expertise in the multitude of conditions commonly labeled as OA. If you think you've seen an expert and had a reliable diagnosis of OA - think again.
There is no easy fix - that's true. There is no way of knowing if yours is a curable soft tissue problem without trying to fix it. I'm led to believe that official research into OA is centered around keeping this 99% of people that are deemed incurable (because they are perceived to be inactive and unwilling or unable to adhere to the required rehab plan), as pain free and independent as possible at minimum cost. It's simply not cost effective to put time and effort into finding the cause, the cure, or training people to make diagnosis and cure soft tissue problems in the cases where how to do so is already known by some.
But there are people out there that have figured out how to diagnose and cure at least some of these cases. Some speculate that all OA is initially a soft tissue dysfunction. However, this is mainly in the private sector - or perhaps in the NHS, but on an unofficial level. You're faced with the dilemma of separating the fakes from the real deal. Most will claim to be able to help - and many will diagnose incurable OA when they fail. That doesn't necessarily mean you can't be helped. Many tried and failed with me before I figured it out for myself.
But if you're willing to work at it yourself - or maybe even find the right person (which is very difficult) then it is quite possible that what you have is very curable.
31 likes, 607 replies
hope4cure susan67756
Posted
u seem to have a understanding on what works for UR body.
I have had 2 THR due to OA. both hips were bone on bone . Surgery done several years apart. They don't call ostero arthritis the wear and tear disease for nothin.
I was active and athletic skiing, motorcycle dirt biking , training horses did a lot of horse endurance racing. As well as my work required me to carry heavy sample books., The thing we do when we r young full of energy and strong.
All of these activities had contributed to the wear and tear of the hip sockets. Once I found out I had OA in my early 40 's I decided to take it easy. After THR surgery the pain I endured before surgery was gone. Rehab took me about two years to slowly build up muscle and tendons to be as athletic as I was. Then ten yrs later the other hip was bone on bone. OA is a auto immune disease... No cure so I have learned how to manage it. It's in all my joints. So there is is the deal of the card or was it DNA.
MOST arthritis is immune diseases and new meds today can help put it into remission. That doesn't mean no pain that just means the medication in most cases has slowed down the damage to our bodies.
susan67756 hope4cure
Posted
I was diagnosed in my early 40's. I too was told to take it easy. For a while I did and I went down hill. Then I started researching for myself, learning how little the 'experts' actually knew and through trial and error turned things around. Often learning from people that had gone before me and turned around THEIR incurable condition.
Is this possible for everyone? No one can say for sure either way. There isn't the research and without a doubt it's not an easy condition to reverse. I think OA is a bit of a catchall used to tidy away anything involving joint pain that they can't fit into any other box so it's likely there are lots of root causes. The other problem is that most people don't try because they're led to believe it's not possible.
I think the only thing that's really known is that no one has a good understanding of what OA is. Prognosis is based upon typical outcome. But as the only treatment offered is drugs and accepting a gradual decline in activity then it's pretty much inevitable that things will deteriorate in most cases. Something is clearly wrong - if nothing is done to address that root cause then of course most people will just deteriorate.
Another problem is that most people with severe OA are very old and in very poor health all around. Things have been allowed to deteriorate for too long. Perhaps little chance of turning things around with them. But for younger or more robust patients..? Things have moved on. For example, it used to be thought that running caused OA. But more recent research is showing that it actually PROTECTS us from hip and knee OA and possibly even helps prevent deterioration in those already diagnosed. Perhaps the old folks in a bad way now would have been better off had their docs told them to keep exercising - not to go into retreat? We simply don't know.
There is nothing on offer from the NHS except the pain relief and activity modification. I was told by a physo and GP that they know that is inadequate and that the OA diagnoses is often a cop out. But that most people are too lazy to do what's necessary to reverse things so the outcome is the same regarless of what treatment the prescribed. I've heard this so often from health professionals. 99% of patients are too lazy to doing anything to help themselvses. I'm not saying it's true, but that's what they think and that's what factors into their diagnosis.I think they are wrong. People most likely give up because of the gloom and doom diagnoses they're given. I don't think I could be bothered doing a bunch of exercise just to allow me to walk or get out of a chair with a slight decrease in pain. However, to be able to climb mountains, lift weights, do gymnastics.....that's awesome fun and certainly not a chore. But you need a positive outlook and a determination to succed to achieve these things when everyone is telling you it's impossible.
There are lots of peple like me that just want to fight for their health and active life till their dying breath. I'm posting for those people to share my experiences because I know that's what I desparately wanted to hear about when I was first diagnosed. I was sick to the back teeth of people telling me to just roll over and die. That's not who I am. And I know there are lots of people that think just like me.
My information (which is my experience and what I've found out through years of research and looking at available research studies) is for those that want it. I don't want to force it down the throat of anyone that doesn't choose to view things the same way as me.
At age 51, due to exercise - exercise that most health professionals would say is too extreme for even someone in their 20's - I am now pain free, in great shape and able to out-perform most men in their 20's let alone women. I don't think there is enough research or knowledge for ANYONE to know for sure that they can't achieve the same outcome. The only way to know is to try. All the health professionals do is guess and try things. They tend to err on the side of take drugs and do less thinking that's less risky. But research is starting to show that in actual fact doing more is probably less risky in most cases. And certainly those drugs aren't a 'safe' option.
It's an individual choice. No gurantees either way. Well actually, if you follow the doctor's advice you're guaranteed not to get better.
hope4cure susan67756
Posted
My take on this is... Since THR I AM IN LITTLE PAIN...
e-rays and MRI's don't lie. Once the damage has been done it's done.. I fought off THR FOR YEARS. IT WAS SO,STUPID cus I literally put myself in jeapordy by letting the bone and soft tissue deteriorate.
never put off THR ... UR r risking future repair. Unless u have access to stem implants to replace bone and soft tissue, there is noway my hips could be rare pairs. Thank god for THR considering the alternatives.
this is a AUTOIMMUNE DISEASE there is no cure but I'll take the THR and TKR to keep walking on mu own.
UR not guaranteed anything in life life is full of risks and decisions. I have made my choice to stay mobile thru THR. Without it I would be on a wheel chair. That's my choice. Wheelchair or mobility on my own.
Nothing is perfect with THR or any surgery but if u had a chance for a heart transplant to live longer or cornea transplant to see better ?
Life is full of choices some are for a better quality of life.. That's is the choices in the many advancements in medicine has given us.
For a lot of patients with serious duprugs to control their diseases like thryroid/ Addison are absolutely necessary to survive. There r more side to drugs than the bad side. There's many drugs that have literally saved lives.
If diabetics don't take their meds or hp meds foe heart disease is no different tan the options available discussed for OA.or PSA .
I dont care how I get better or how my family members get better if it takes drugs or surgery and many times it is not a choice but more of a positive responsibility to take decisions offered to us by the medical community to improve our quality of life.
susan67756 hope4cure
Posted
The following two statemtents are known fact:
- Some people have next to no signs of degenerative changes on x-rays and MRI's but they have terrible pain, lost range of motion and so on.
- Some people have terribly disintegrated joints with no symptoms whatsoever.
This proves that it's possible to have joints in a terrible state but no symptoms. And doctors know for a fact that this is often the case. This is why some more forward thinking doctors don't like to send people for xrays and mri's because something 'wrong' will be found with most people and this leads to missdiagnosis - the symptoms being pinned on whatever is found on the MRI and the real cause ieft undiagnosed.
Imagine then I go to the doctors and say I have bad pain in my hip. He orders xrays / MRI and it comes back clear. OA is ruled out and we keep looking for the cause of the problem, in time find it, treat it and the symptoms go away.
What happens though if I'm one of the people that happens to have degenerative changes in joints but no related symptoms? I'll be diagnosed with OA and they'll stop looking for the real cause of my pain. I'll be given pain killers and told to come back when I need a hip replacement (this in fact did happen in my case!).
I was told I'd need hip replacements by now. Instead I'm pain free, almost back to full range of motion and weightlifting, running (not just jogging, but running up and down mountains), back to doing karate - kicking a heavy bag and getting back to way beyond normal hip ROM.
I'm not saying no one needs surgery. What I'm saying is that mine was diagnosed as a 'classic case'. I was told that there was no doubt and no hope of cure or improvement for me. If my case was so classic and I was missdiagnosed then how many other people have been missdiagnosed?
I'm sharing my story for those people that want to move heaven and earth to rule out the other possibilities before accepting the OA diagnosis. I've always known in my heart that the doctors were wrong about me. I'd always trained hard and knew how my body responded to things inside out. What they were saying did tie up with the history or how I felt - I KNEW they were wrong. The hardest thing for me to deal with is the negativity of the medical profession- and other people that seemed hell bent on making me accept their chosen prognosis. My decision was to fight this and all I ever got from them was attempts to talk me into giving up. I wasn't asking them to foot the bill for anything that I did - just occasionally I'd ask for a bit of input/advise and always got slammed down and made to feel a fool for being stupid enough to think I could beat it.
Some people WANT to fight this. It isn't known for sure what the cause of OA is and they don't yet know how to treat it (other than drugs and surgery). This doesn't mean there isn't other treatment - just that they haven't got a tried and tested method of doing it. Some of us think it's worth digging in, using the internet to touch base with others and figure it out for ourselves. This thread is for THOSE people. There are plenty of threads for those that have chosen to embrace the drugs and surgery route - or for those that have such bad symptoms that they feel they have no choice.
Yes. there is a risk that you're wrong and that things get worse. But there's also the risk that you give up active life and take dangerous drugs or go under the knife when there could have been a resolution through corrective exercise. You need to follow your own heart and make your own decision. Often I think our gut feelings are right.
You're happy with your decision and the outcome. I'm happy with mine. We both started in the same place with an OA diagnosis at the same age after having lived a very active life. Proving that there is more than one possible course of action and more than one possible outcome. Maybe I made a better choice than you on how to deal with it or mabye my case was simply different from yours. Maybe what I did wouldn't have worked for you. This is the dilema we all face - how to proceed. But you and I are proof that no matter what the diagnosis the outcome can't be predicted as reliably as the doctors would have us believe.
MINE seemed a hopless case. Countless experts told me I was in denial. My dad had both of his hips replaced by age 55 so it was assumed to be a genetic thing in my case. Yet mine was either missdiagnosed and I didn't have OA (in which case many others WILL have been given the same missdiagnosis) or OA IS curable.
There are plenty of threads, articles and health professionals talking about the benefits of drugs and surgery. It's not as if any of us are unaware of the line the doctors and OA research organisations take. Some of us choose a different path. To me it seems a sensible approach - try drug-free, non invasive procedures before getting hooked on drugs and going under the knife. Just be aware that you won't get this under the NHS and you won't be able to afford the number of private sessions you'd need to get to the root of the problem. You're on your own.....with the help of Google!
fran64082 susan67756
Posted
I've resisted the surgery (so far) and continue all my usual activities and exercise and the pain has almost disappeared. I know there is still a problem, as I am often uncomfortable at night, but daytime is mostly pain free, although Yoga is almost an impossibility - not that i was very good at it anyway!
I don't understand why the pain (which is not excessive, but to quote your own word some time back, "exquisite") comes and goes. Months without and then a flare-up for a few days. But so far I am winning.
I am 74, so particularly self-satisfied with my progress. If I one day need that op, I'll do it under protest, but in the meantime will deal with this mysterious ailment myself. Don't tell me it's an inevitable part of aging, and suggest pain pills. That really gets me fighting mad.
I take Glucosamine & Chondroitin (no real evidence that it's useful, but what the heck!)and I take a couple of aspirin at night when I need them. Rarely more than that.
Again, my thanks to you. Everyone on here is singing from the same song book. It's nice to have such optimistic company.
hope4cure fran64082
Posted
Some day to have successful surgery u must have good bone & tissue for the prothesis to attach to and heal .
Dont wait too long there r many risks involved that do put THR surgery at risk. UR tissue and bone can develop necrosis and his can become extremely painful. Loss of a lot of bone and tissue can take longer for rehab and greater risk for many , many other serious issues that have not been discused .
I hope you can continue to beat OA as long as u can!
u have a very positive attitude and that's half the battle.
"Weather u think u can or cannot, your right". Henry Ford.
susan67756 fran64082
Posted
I went through a stage where I was fine during the day when active, but would be woken with pain at night. That was actually just last year - when things were really going well and I was getting back to full fitness. The more active I was during the day the less discomfort I had at night. If I had a lazy day I would be woken with bad pain at night. Also, things like driving were very painful but I knew the moment I got out the car and got moving the pain would go.
The nature of the pain/discomfort was either 'restless legs' or a horrible ache either in my hip, my outer thigh or my calf/ankle. Location varied - sometimes it ached everywere - sometimes just one spot on my leg. Movement eased or eliminated the pain.
That turned out to be nerve pain (algthough physio / doc said it was OA and to live with it!). Similar to sciatic pain but not related to spine/disc as it was intermittent. (What's known as true sciatica tends to be consistent - it doesn't come and go). In my case the nerve pain (which overall I had for a year at varying degrees) progressed and got really bad to the point where for a while I had uncontrollable pain 24/7 and I worried that I was going to turn into one of these chronic pain sufferers. It stopped me from doing any activity at all for a couple of months.
That has 100% resolved now. It turned out (my theory looking at the whole thing in retrospect and the treatment that worked) to be an irritated nerve. (probably sciatic nerve). Because I'd had this twist in my pelvis and the stiff hip for years my body was always in an unnatural position. Consequently, the nerves had either shortened or got 'entangled' in the tight, contracted muscles. As I got better my body started to straighten out. I probably tried to progress too quickly at one point and over-stretched and irritated the nerve. Recommended treatment for pirioformis syndrome (which is probably a close match to what I had) is to stretch. So my attempts to rectify the problem almost certainly made things worse. So, perhaps something I inevitably had to go through in order to attain full functionality or maybe due to too much stretching too soon. Impossible to say.
I don't know if this fits your pain - the fact that you only have night time pain is what makes me wonder as that was the key thing with me. Some clues might be if you feel a slightly numb or funny sensation when you run your finger nails along your calf. The pain I guess is a gnawing ache.
**IF** this sounds like it might fit then let me know and I'll give you more info re what worked for me.
fran64082 susan67756
Posted
I still have this strong belief that there is something out of position in the groin. I find I am constantly stretching, tensing the leg, which feels good, or deep massaging the area, as if I can click it all back into place. I still haven't sought professional chiropractic help with this.
I treat this situation as an irritation, something that makes me curse occasionally in frustration, but not as a nightmarish, doom-laden sentence for life as some people do. I know I'm much better than last year. I haven't done as well as you, but I've taken charge and know I am still only at the beginning. There is so much to read! It's mind-boggling.
Of course, I have another life above and beyond this (including another novel to publish) and I'm so happy to have things that distract the mind from OA. I mean, it could become obsessive, and who wants to know an aging woman who only talks about her bad hip?
Thanks again, Susan.
susan67756 fran64082
Posted
I know you're not keen on drugs, but if it is an irritated sciatic nerve then it needs to settle down before the pain will go. Once they flare up they can stay that way no matter what you do. There's a drug called amitryptilyne in the UK - I think in America it's Elavil. It can cause side effects with some people - the main one being that it makes you VERY drowsy at first - the other is dry mouth. But if you take them in the evening that's no bad thing because it gets you a good night's sleep! Most of the side effects wear off. You start on a very low dose and build up until the pain goes or side effects become intollerable.
I did great on it. Any mild side effects wore off within a week and it DOES settle that nerve down. I had to build up to 50mg a night and probably stayed on it for around 6 months in total. Then I was able to stop taking it altogether and the pain has never come back. Haven't looked back since then. It doesn't work for everyone, but when it works it works miracles!
So maybe worth talking to the doctor about? I'm not sure my nerve pain would have settled down without this drug. It's NOT a painkiller - just something to settle an irritated nerve.
fran64082 susan67756
Posted
Sciatic nerve. Little devil. Let's see if that's what it is...
claire34834 susan67756
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claire34834
Posted
fran64082 claire34834
Posted
Good luck to you. Love hearing news like this.
claire34834 fran64082
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fran64082 claire34834
Posted
As for knowing who is currently rejecting OA surgery, I tried a search at one point, but all I got was the response to the words "Hip Surgery", not to "Rejecting Hip Surgery". You and Susan are the only other people I've discovered.
claire34834 fran64082
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fran64082 claire34834
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I recognize your question. I say it all the time.
susan67756 claire34834
Posted
My case was classic I was told. 100% definitely OA.
Yet mine was resolved by untangling the muscle imbalance that was the real cause.
I know others who have 'beaten' their OA simply through trying a different sport,. A 54 year old ultra distance runner and cyclist that was told his running days were over due to knee OA stopped running and cycled around Europe (sure that's not what the doc had in mind LOL). Tried running again a year later and he was fine. He's now back doing ultra distance races including running up and down mountains.
The thing that fits all caes in younger or more active peoples stories is a simple muscle imbalance CAUSING joint wear. Fix the imbalance, stop the wear. Problem sorted. In older people it might be more tricky because things could be too far gone (not just the joint, but strength, fitness etc been allowed to deteriorate too much). It was hard for me to fix things and I was very fit and strong and NOT in much pain.
Where this doesn't fit is when people really do get improvement from hip replacement. That suggests in those cases the joint really was the problem.
So I'm not sure. But I would say that always the course of action should be to assume a muscle imbalance and work hard to fix that. Because even if the cause of your pain/dysfunction really is an arthritic joint I can guarantee that it's causing muscle imbalances that are making symptoms worse.
In your case Claire you have proven that you can function well with your joint in it's current state. You've also proven that the joint isn't deteriorating. You just need to keep it that way! Stay active, keep your weight down, keep your joint moving and mobile. And good luck!!!!
susan67756
Posted
Something I discovered very recently is a gait retraining program that, for me at least, works miracles when it comes to getting your body working as it should.
It won't be for everyone. Inactive people might be a put off by it. But at just $14.99 to buy the program online it's probably worth a try for anyone that's willing to spend half an hour a day working on it.
Google for "The Fundamentals of Efficient Gait - Human Foundations"
I have a feeling that this could work for lots of people with hip issues. Especially those with a twist in the pelvis.....and it seems when tested that this fits with most people.
You need a few bits and bobs of equipment. Idealy access to a cable machine in a gym, but failing that you can purchase resistance bands on Amazon very cheaply that will work fine. Very light hand weights (tins of beans would do).
fran64082 susan67756
Posted
Recall the discussion about amitryptilyne? My doctor call it old-hat, outdated, etc. and immediately wrote out a prescription for Lyrica, as a substitute, without giving me any details. Stupid me, usually far more vigilant, I had it filled. Only when I got home did I read about it. It's basically a treatment for depression, and seems to have little or nothing to do with me. I am not depressed. Side effects are rather daunting. I took the prescription back for the pharmacy for disposal. I haven't seen doctor since, but I am still very annoyed and rather alarmed by that prescription.
susan67756 fran64082
Posted
I'd never heard of Lyrica before, but upon Googling for info it might not have been such a bad move on your Doctor's part.
Both Elavil and Lyrica seem to do a similar job. Elavil too was originally developed as an antidepressant but they discovered that it as also very good at reducing nerve signals to the brain. With Elavil at least, you take a much smaller dose for nerve pain than for depression. You also start on a very low dose and gradually build up. So in practice it's not really as scary as it seems from a side-effects POV.
If someone had nerve pain (perhaps nerve pain is what a lot of people get with OA) that was making life miserable I'd say give it a try.
Elavil was a life-saver for me, but side effects do vary from person to person.
I hope you're doing well and the pain has settled of it's own accord.
fran64082 susan67756
Posted
The pain has settled. Sleep well now, and that had been a problem. Thing is, I fell off our back deck (!) just before Christmas and hurt my right knee rather badly. Three weeks later it's still healing. It meant that I put a lot of weight on the poor left hip, which flared up of course. But it seems to have given it a workout, because it feels better now than it did before the fall.
How did I fall? Old lady syndrome? No, just stupidity. Was hosing down our deck, which is quite narrow, perhaps a metre wide, and saw what I thought was a large Huntsman spider (you probably know I'm in Australia) climbing up behind a bench. Very scary, and I reacted by stepping back off the deck. After I managed to get back up, and turned off the hose, I saw the ugly critter was just a poor grasshopper trying to avoid the deluge. It survived without harm. I was in agony for well over a week.