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Quality of sleep is terrible

Posted , 5 users are following.

kris118
kris118

Hello,

I'm always tired. I get around 7-8 hours of sleep a night (24 yr old male). Recently I've started tracking my sleep and I get on average 40minutes of REM sleep per night. I am on medication (zopiclone) to help me sleep when my GF stays as I barely sleep at all when she does. So I took one last night when I slept by myself to see if it helped my quality of sleep at all and I had 4 hours REM sleep for the first time it's been over an hour since I  started tracking two weeks ago ( i only track when I am sleeping in my bed alone ).

What can I do about my terrible quality of sleep? Really don't want to have to take medication every single night for the rest of my life, i'm young and in very good shape, not stressed just can't catch a good night sleep.

Would love to hear any advice... I mean 4 hours of deep sleep last night i woke up and still feel tired but presumably it's because im chronically deprived of sleep.

Thanks,

Kris

0 likes, 7 replies

7 Replies

  • lily65668
    lily65668 kris118

    Posted

    Hi Kris,

    I wouldn't get too wound up about your lack of REM sleep. I agree 40 mins seems a bit short, but it does vary widely from one individual to another. It may well be that you've never had more REM sleep than this. All the same, the fact that you managed 4 hours of REM when you took the zopiclone suggests that you're not getting enough in general, and were catching up. (The brain will do this quite naturally.)

    I suspect that the fact you got more REM sleep on the night you took the zopiclone was a coincidence, and not the result of the medication. It looks from your post as if this is the only time you've monitored your sleep on a night when you took zopiclone. If you read up on this medication, you'll see that there's general agreement that it reduces time spent in REM sleep! I'm wondering whether you'd taken it for a run of nights before the monitoring night, and your brain got so desperate it caught up on REM sleep regardless.

    I'm wondering how long you've been taking zopiclone, and how often you take it. I honestly think this could be at the root of your problem.

    Are you on antidepressants by any chance, or have you taken them in the last few months? They are often prescribed for people who have disorders related to REM sleep, with the express purpose of suppressing REM sleep altogether. Interestingly, these individuals don't seem to suffer too much. I believe other psychotropic medications can alter sleep cycles too.

    Drinking alcohol late in the evening is known to reduce REM sleep, and I recently heard that smokers spend less time in the REM phase.

    If you're worried about this, why not get yourself referred to a sleep clinic, and spend a night in the sleep lab? Home sleep monitors aren't all that reliable, and you'd get a better overview of your whole condition from a sleep doctor.

    • kris118
      kris118 lily65668

      Posted

      Hello Lily,

      Appreciate you taking time you provide an in depth response. I know you said maybe 40min REM sleep is all i ever get, yet I am always tired so surely this isn't enough? Even if my body is used to it. Anyway, I tracked it again last night after taking zopiclone again and managed 3hour11 minutes of REM sleep. Considering the previous two weeks averaged at 40minutes it has to be the medication helping, also my sleep cycles are improving from 0-1 per night to 3-4. However I still feel tired, again presumably due to deep sleep deprevation. I would say I've been taking zopiclone for 1 year now and on average two tablets (3.5mg) per week. I only need the tablets when I sleep in the same bed as the GF.

      Good idea about the sleep clinic although before I start all the hassle of getting myself admitted and having to take time off work I wanted to get some peoples opinions.

      I only drink on a weekend, yes that definitely affects my sleep quality then but shouldn't be this bad on weekdays. Don't smoke, and no i've never been on antidepressants, this is literally the only medication ive ever taken long term. I work out 4-5 times a week, do sports, live a very active and social life.

      While these home tests probably aren't very accurate, I am running two different apps to track and both have pretty similar results, it scores your sleep out of 100, previous two weeks have been around 35 and last two nights up at 80 (not closer to 100 as I have many disruptions in my sleep for some reason 10+ per night on and off zopiclone)

      Anywho, my question is, say I went to a sleep clinic, they monitored me and saw yes my sleep is bad - What can they actually do for me besides medication (as surely i'll get more and more immune to zopiclone ect, and the fast I don't want to be on meds at 24 to sleep)

      I can't think of anything negative in my daily routine that would impact my sleep, like you said it's just normal for me to not get much deep sleep.

      Thanks,

      Kris

    • lily65668
      lily65668 kris118

      Posted

      Well, you know your own body, but it still sounds to me as if the zopiclone might be playing a role here. I'm wondering whether you ever monitored your sleep before you started taking it. All sleep meds can seriously mess with your sleep architecture. This can start after taking them for only a short time, and the effects can be very long-lasting.

      As to what the outcome of the sleep clinic might be, that depends on the doctor in charge. I know there are a few places where they do some serious sleep re-education, but that would indeed involve quite a big time commitment. To be honest, I suspect that in your case they'd just tell you not to worry so much about your sleep. Either that or, yes, they'd prescribe more sleep meds.

      All I can suggest is trying to slowly wean yourself off the zopiclone. I had problems sleeping most of my working life, after just a year or so of working an impossible shift system that screwed up my sleep for the next 40 years. I never took prescription sleep medications though. I would take one of the older antihistamines - the type that make you sleepy - for a couple of nights when I'd had a run of bad nights, and this would be enough to re-set my sleep pattern for maybe the next week. But even antihistamines have to be treated with respect, as you can develop tolerance to them too, and I believe they can also adversely affect REM sleep. So there's no such thing as a free lunch I'm afraid.

    • kris118
      kris118 lily65668

      Posted

      Thanks for all the advice. I'll visit a sleep specialist when i'm able and go from there!

      Kris

  • susan95644
    susan95644 kris118

    Posted

    That's lovely that you have time to spend with your girlfriend and don't have time to sleep.  I only ever had a boyfriend when I didn't have a job, so there was plenty of time to sleep when I got tired, so I never noticed needing more sleep.  On the other hand, I am terribly afraid in the night and cannot sleep because of it.  Last night, after I listened to a song by Gordon Lightfoot about a "ghost at the bottom of a wishing well," I saw a blue flare up in the air behind the trees in the valley outside my window, and then three heavy helicopters flew over the site one by one, frightening out of my bed and into a bed in a room near the bedroom occupied by my parents.  One way you can get sleep is to realize that if you just lie still in bed and don't move, except to get comfortable you are resting, and rest is what you want to get by getting to sleep, so if you lie awake all night and only sleep for a few seconds, that is probably all you need to get through your day of work, then you can rest again.  Just remember to set your alarm, so it will wake you when you need to get ready to go to work.  You could just lie quietly next to your girlfriend all night and have her lie quietly next to you.  That way you can see her and still get some rest.
  • Zigangie
    Zigangie kris118

    Posted

    Hi kris my sleep isn't great but seems to be a little improved with magnesium and vitamin d3.

    I've been taking magnesium for a while but discovered it wasn't a really good one (cost a bomb because it was ionic but there are several types).

    I thought my sleep had got a bit better with the vit d3, the thing is though at times it does get a little better then returns with a vengeance.

    I had some really bad tooth problem pain and dentist wanted to save it. I had 2 courses of antibiotics painkillers and strong codeine ones from the doctor, this went on for almost 6 weeks and whilst taking all that I didn't bother with the magnesium or vitamin d3.

    Sleep Got much worse with having such tooth ache as well and I ended up a few days ago no sleep at all for 4 days. Started back with the magnesium and vitamins d and from 2nd day sleep has got better again.

    Maybe give these things a try?

    • lily65668
      lily65668 Zigangie

      Posted

      That's interesting Zigangie. My poor sleep improved with age - particularly after I retired from paid employment at age 66, which I put down entirely to reduced stress levels. However, now I come to think of it, that coincided with seriously upping my vitamin D3 intake, in line with updated guidelines as to how much was safe and the benefits of higher doses. Till then I'd been taking a very low dose - well within the old RDA - for osteopaenia (with good results). A year or so ago I also increased my magnesium intake from 375mg per day, which I'd taken for 20 years, to 525.5mg per day, and I have the subjective impression my sleep has improved again since then. Btw, the reason for the somewhat eccentric dose is that I take a preparation of magnesium oxide that delivers a dose of 375mg in two tablets and I've now increased it to three per day.

      These days, vitamin D3 is considered relatively safe, as long as you don't go crazy with it. Magnesium is safe too, though it causes diarrhoea in some people. Best to start low if anyone wants to try it.

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