Question about Disability Benefit

Hello SES and everyone

I really cannot see why you're not getting the benefit SES, it seems so unfair - I'm personally finding it very hard to get through life - mainly due to the pain, I find people not very sympethic to my moans, because they dont feel what I feel - but you sound worse than me SES, and I really feel for you. I really hope that you get what you deserve.

I still haven't heard from the Upper Tribunal - I may phone them tomorrow to see what is going on. I'll keep in touch.

Alan

Thanks Lyn for your posting

I'll have to wait before re-applying because my case is still ongoing, this is really unfair, because if I lose my Upper Appeal case I would have wasted loads of time.

I'm still thinking maybe it's best to take them on with a civil case - somebody has to do it - I know that there's plenty of laywers out there who believe that what the State is doing regarding using these provided doctors observations over the claimants GP's is illegal - My own GP is one of the states provided doctors - which makes the process laughable.

He's given me a cast iron medical report that was ignored by the morons on the panel - There's one strong thing in my favour with my case.

There was definatley descrimination by the judge not allowing me to use my documents, especially my closing submission.

Its taking so long with the Upper Tribunal that it's making me wonder if they're having a really good look at my documents - because I've threatened them I may take alternative action. This may have got them a little bit worried - I hope so!!

Alan

Hi again Alan

Have you tried to contact them regarding your case? A phone call might throw some light on why it's taking so long. At least you will remind them that you are still waiting.

It must be really frustrating as you can't reapply while your case is ongoing but then again you are going to lose out if it fails. I'm sure it will come good in the end and a small push in their direction might do some good. Just think, if you win with the Upper Tribunal and your case is heard again, you will be paid from the date you first applied. Hopefully this will be the case and the money will be of some help to you for assistance or whatever you need to make life a little easier.

I'm still waiting to hear from my new claim but it takes so long that I feel like losing the will to live! They have told me it will take up to 16 weeks to make a decision, then when they tell me to sod off again, I have to wait months for another Tribunal. I'm ready for them this time and won't allow them to bully me again as they did last time.

Good luck and keep pushing them. Don't let them sit on their laurels too long.

Take care

Lyn

hello everybody

When I got home from Norfolk Last week, there was a note from the postman saying that a letter was trying to be delivered but they couldn't get it through the letter box, and that I would have to collect it at the sorting office. Well I collected it today, and do you know what; just when I thought things couldn't get any worse - They did!!!

The letter was a 400 page document that was sent to me in a brown paper envelope that had split open in transit - Oh my God, this is the second time this has happened to me. The letter was sent by the Upper Tribunal Service on the 29 June - and I got it today. It informed me that I was to attend a hearing on the 22 July in the centre of London at 10:30am and that I was to address the sitting Judge as \"sir\"

I phoned up the Upper Tribunal Service and gave them a mouthful of my best language, and told them in no uncertain terms that there was no way in hell that I would call anybody \"sir\" I was told that I have to in respect of his authority - I told him I couldn't careless of who he was, I was not going to call him sir.

The hearing is to see if I'm going to be allowed to appeal against the first tier Tribunal decision. This is all getting beyond me so I decided to phone the Law Centre and ask for they're assistance - so off I trot this morning to the Law Centre - I spent 2 hours there, and do you know what I was told? I'm the first person that they've heard of who has managed to get to see the Upper Tribunal - he could not believe how far that I've got on my own. His advice I must say was next to useless - he wasn't able to help me because The hearing is only to see if I can appeal - He told me that if I was successful he would take up my case. I told he that I didn't think that I had a cats chance in hell!!

He confirmed to me what I already knew - that the hearing judges have been given such strong powers that that can moreorless do what they like, and say what they want.

I told him that they use opinionated evidence from the provided state doctors - he said that it was \"medical evidence\" I said no it's not, medical evidence is what the claimants GP's use

He gave me the impression that he didn't have a clue as to what I should do, his advice was to go to the hearing and see what happens.

I told him that I already know what's going to happen - I'm going to lose because you people (lawyers) all stick together like glue.

If I was granted permission to appeal then that would men that the credibility of the first tier hearing judge would be put into question, and the whole system would be questionable. They wouldn't allow me to do this. I dont think.

I also asked him what would be my position if I was refused permission to appeal - He told me that, that would be it.

I asked him if it would be possible for me to take a civil action against the Tribunal Service - he said no.

This is a rather beautiful country but the systems governing people's rights. STINK!!!!

To fight the STATE is impossible- because everything has been put in place by the STATE for the protection of themselves, Even the Law Centre that I went to today is paid for by the STATE - The Judge that I'm going to see next week, is paid for by the STATE - all the people on the

panels are being employed and chosen by by the STATE - There is NO INDEPENDENCE in this country for people to be able to defend themselves. The CA is another useless set up.

What we need is something that is set up by independent people's money, that the STATE has no control over - it's the only way to get real independence.

Happy Birthday Alan!!!!

Question: Has anybody been to the Upper Tribunal?

Hi Alan

I've been thinking about your post all evening, sad life I lead, and I think sometimes we have to play the game to get what we want! You said you wouldn't call the Judge Sir but the way I see it is this, If you come across as surly and bad mannered (the way the system thinks, not me) then it is possible that the Judge will believe that the Tribunal was not unjust in their attitude. Sometimes when people are 'rude' it can make us defensive if you see what I mean?

Sometimes we have to give them what they want and be well mannered and respectful, galling I know but necessary. If you go in and are well mannered and respectful and speak quietly and politely, it will make the Tribunal Judge look exactly the way he was with you, rude and ill mannered. You will come across as the 'wronged one'! If you go in with an attitude that is angry, justifiably so, then they may not see your case in its true light. Sometimes it could distract from the case in hand. Reasonable people always seem to get further with 'Authority' than angry people.

I hope you see this as constructive and hope I am not coming across as a bit patronising? I just feel that if you can remain positive and calm at the Hearing then you may get the right outcome. Judges feel they are superior to us mere mortals and to get what we want, it helps to stroke their ego a bit! You don't come across as someone who bends over to the system and rightly so but just this once it may help your case!

Have a think about it anyway and try to help yourself rather than fight an unfair system alone.

Maybe, after you have won your case, which I am sure you will, you could start a campaign and we could all bombard the Government with our stories about how the system is unjust and how money is wasted on stopping people getting what they deserve rather than just paying out in the first place to those who need it.

Hope I haven't offended you but I felt I needed to highlight a few issues in the event it may be useful.

Take care

Lyn

Hi Alan,

I first applied for DLA in Oct 2007 and with that application I got as far as the Upper Tribual, so took two years to get there so to speak, but when I phoned the tribunals regarding somthing else in December regarding my ex they said oh is this for your DLA, well you have been unsucessful and should recieve documentation why..... and guess what, I still havent recieved it???? so what is that all about? I might phone them actually as you have reminded me? As I want to know the reasons why they have come to their conclusions!!!! I have since however put further applications in on this basis, actually two since december due to dx changing, this last application I have put in they are looking at my appeal straight away which to be honest was a suprise..... anyway I am not holding my breath!!!!!

Be calm Alan as you need to be x good luck x

Good luck to us all x

Regards

SES

Thank Lynb & SES for your advice, I was angry yesterday, I'm normally a fairly calm person - this is what really annoyed the first tier hearing judge. I will be polite but I just hope the situation doesn't arise where I have to call him sir - My Granddaughter laughed when I told her that I 'm in no way going to call him sir. I told her that it would be like I was being sick!!!!

As I'm trying to fight for us all - I will, if I have to mutter the word sir in my lowest voice possible!!!

Has anybody read tomtom16 posting (DLAAppeal?)

I'm really sorry tomtom16 but I've just read it, and it makes me really sad but it make me stronger to fight the injustice of the sysyem - it's the STATES provided doctors that are causing most of the trouble - and it's obvious that the tribunal hearing judges have been directed to only accept their doctors opinions. I actually wrote a letter about this to the tribunal service several months ago.

tomtom16 account of the disability examining doctor was almost identical to my encounter with them, and it was almost word for word what the doctor wrote in his report - you cant tell me that these people are working indepentently when they're opinionated clinical reports on people are so similar in content.

I hope that I can win my appeal next wednesday, and I promise I will be on my best behaviour, anyway my wife is coming with me but she said that there is no way that she will be coming in the room with me - because she knows what I'm like?

I've taken my pills and I'm calm now!!!

If I win?the Law Centre will take up my case, and maybe if the lawyer has some balls we can at last make a fight of it - He was very interested in the case, he spoke to me for two hours, and he knowws that I'm strong willed.

Whats happened to our fun site? Have they removed it? I know that it has nothing to do with our CS but it was a place to have a laugh for us sick people - put it back please it was doing no harm.

regards to you all Alan

I see some of the postings have been removed from this page.

Only yesterday I watched a film called 1984 - Your actions remind me of of the content of this film -I suggest to the people who CONTROL this site to take a look at this film because you're becoming this film.

What has happened to the freedom of speach?

I'm trying really hard on this site to rectify the wrongs that are happening to the people who suffer from a serious condition - who should be getting help in the way of some benefits but they're being denied by a system that has been put in place by the STATE - which is totaly biased in their favour - I'm pretty close to a break through - if I succeed in getting a new first tier tribunal - then the Law Centre has promised to take up my case. which I hope will see the beginning of the end of the current system of assessment for people who claim DLA.

I need the help of the people who have contributed to this site - I would not have been able to get as far as I have without them.

I find it appalling that somebody is using BIG BROTHER tactics on this site

This is 2010 not 1984!!!!!!!

Hi,

I have just received another ESA50 form which I have to complete and send back to planet ATOS. As there will be much writing to do I will have to ask someone to do it for me this time. Since I returned the last form, a year ago, my condition has greatly worsened and using a pen to write anything more than a shopping list is too painful. Even using a computer keyboard hurts and I can only do it in short bursts. The answers I give now will be much different than last time but I may still be sent for a medical assessment again. However, after the last one, I am much the wiser as to the way the draconian bods at the DWP operate. I failed my last assessment but won the subsequent appeal, will it be the same this time.

I have six weeks in which to return the completed form during which time I should get more medical advice.

Over the past few months I have read much advice on how to complete form ESA50 and how to deal with the medical assessment without having to lie. If I have to attend an assessment again I hope I get the same doc as before as I will be ready for the so'n so this time, he's not fit to use an elastoplast let alone be a doctor.

Janner

Hello everybody:

I must write this out for people who have to fight for DLA after me: this is the STATES case against me:

The disputed decision was made in accordance with the following acts and regulations:

Mobility Component:

Higher rate conditions

To be entitled to the higher rate of the mobility component of DLA a person must:

1...be unable to walk or virtually unable to walk because of a physicle disability:

SOCIAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTIONS & BENEFIT ACT 1992, section 73: SOCIAL SECURITY (Disability Allowance Regulations 1991,regulation 12

Lower rate conditions:

To get lower rate of the mobility component of Disability Living Allowance a person must be so severely disabled,physically or mentally that they need guidence or supervision from another person for most of the time when walking outdoors. Any ability a person has to walk on familiar routes without guidence or supervision is not taken into account.

A person who is able to walk is not to be taken as satisfying the condition of being so severly disabled physically or mentally, that he, she, cannot take advantage of the faculty out of doors, without guidence or supervision from another person most of the time, if he,she, does not take advantage of the faculty in such circumstances because of the fear and anxiety.

The above paragraph shall not apply where the fear of anxiety is:

1... a symptom of mental disability: and

so severe as to prevent the person from taking advantage of the

faculty in such circumstances.

SOCIAL SECURITY COTRIBUTIONS & BENEFITS ACT 1992, section 73 (1) (d) SOCIAL SECURITY (Disability Living Allowance) Regulation 1991 regs 12 (7) and (8)

Unable or virtually unable to walk

People are considered to satisfy this criteria if their physical condition is such that:

1... they are unable to walk at all: or

2... their abilty to walk outdoors is so limited, as regard the distance

over which or the speed over which or the length of time for which or

the manner in which they can make progress on foot without severe

discomfort,that they are virtually unable to walk: or

3... the effort needed to walk would put their life at risk or be likely to lead

to a serious deterioration in their health.

Where a person lives or works.or the nature of the work they do cannot

be taken into account.

SOCIAL SECURITY (Disability Living Allowance) Regulations 1991, regulation 12

Virtually unable to walk means unable to any appreciable extent or practically unable to walk. The base point is total inability to walk. This is extended to take in people who can technically walk but only to an insignificant extent.

SOCIAL SECURITY COMMISSIONERS DECISIONS R (M) and R (M) 1 91

Aids and appliances

People connot normally be treated as unable or virtually unable to walk if they can use an artificial limb or aid to help them walk unless they are without both legs>

SOCIAL SECURITY (DISABILITY LIVING ALLOWANCE) REGULATIONS 1991: regulations 12 (4)

GHIDENCE

Guidence may be physically leading or directing the person oral suggestion persuasuation.

SUPERVISION

For the lower rate of the mobility component supervision can be:

1...when another person is monitoring the disabled person's physical or mental state for signs that some intervention may be needed to encourage the person to continue walking: or

2... checking the route ahead for obstacles,dangers or places or situations which may upset the person.

Coaxing, encouraging, persuading or distraction by way of conversation may come within the meaning of \"supervision\"

This is it folks - these are the rules currently being employed by the STATE for the benefit of DLA

The STATE case against me has been taken from the Incapacity medical report as opposed to the Disability report which was mainly in my favour. BE WARNED PEOPLE - it seems virtually impossible at the moment to be granted this benefit, it se

Hi there Alan

there is a way round this you need to follow.......reagrding the mobility...

[quote:04bf083289]

Unable or virtually unable to walk

People are considered to satisfy this criteria if their physical condition is such that:

their abilty to walk outdoors is so limited, as regard the distance

over which or the speed over which or the length of time for which or

the manner in which they can make progress on foot without severe

discomfort,that they are virtually unable to walk:

Virtually unable to walk means unable to any appreciable extent or practically unable to walk. The base point is total inability to walk. This is extended to take in people who can technically walk but only to an insignificant extent. [/quote:04bf083289]

Its how you interpret this......

If you are unable, or virtually unable,to walk. For most people with arthritis for example, Time, distance, speed and manner of walking are all considered.

Do you experience severe discomfort or pain in your feet, legs or lower back for example?

Do you get fatigued after only a short distance?

Do you get breathless?

Do you use a walking stick or walking frame? Remember that if using the equipment means you no longer have difficulties, then that activity won’t count towards your DLA entitlement. So if you still need help or experience pain even though you use this equipment, then explain this very clearly. If walking results in having to have a period of rest to recover?

Can you walk at all on your worse days?

Are you in severe discomfort all the time when you walk or does it begin after a certain distance? People tend to have difficulty estimating distances so, if possible actually measure how far you can walk before you are in pain or severe discomfort. As a last resort count how many paces you can take and then measure your pace.

For a long time people who couldn’t walk more than 100 yards stood a good chance, but more recently awards were unlikely for people who could walk more than 50 yards.

[b:04bf083289]However, a Commissioner has recently reminded tribunals that they are not supposed to just consider how far people can walk, but also other factors such as:

the speed at which you walk,

the manner in which you walk

how long you have to rest for before you can walk again. [/b:04bf083289]

Legally, there is no set distance for eligibility for higher rate DLA – you might be able to walk 400 yards and still qualify if, for example, it took you a very long time to do so.

These are just some of areas I have found!!!! SO they havent gone into all the depth of the entitlement!

I hope this helps Alan!!! x

Hello SES, thank you for your posting, it does help me - it was you who first got me started on my long road, and I thank you for that.

I'm in pain all the time SES, throughout my whole body but you learn , or have to live with it.

I'm now very confident about my hearing with the Upper Appeal on Thursday - all it is, is to for the judge to grant me permission to have another hearing . I'm reading the doucument now and he's starting at page 320. Which was my request for the statement of reasons - I dont remember if I dold you this but the Law Centre told me that, the hearing judge should not have sent it to me in handwritten form. He said that he's never heard of this being done before, and he believes that it's violation of tribunal policy.

The Law Centre ask me how I knew the hearing judge was lying -I told him that I knew because I wrote a response to the proceedings before I received his version.

I believe that I'm going to get another hearing because the hearing judge showed discrimination towards me - by not allowing me to read out my closing submission - not allowing me to argue any disputed points that there was. It's the discrimination that he showed towards me that is hopefully going to be his downfall.

This is what the Upper Tribunal Judge is going to look at.

The hearing judge wrote at the time when I wanted to read out my submission \"that something was handed in\" What a cheak!!! He knew very well that it was my closing submission. I had every right to read it out, and it was a very important document.

The hearing judge in his statement of reasons never mentioned anything from this document.

My submission gave very clear factual medical reasons why I believe that I was entitled to DLA.

I've got to go SES- my Granddaughter has just phoned up, she's staying with us for a while - I've got to pick her up from the station.

I shall keep in touch. Alan

hello everybody

Tomorrow's the day!!! I've just written my submission - it's looks pretty good to me. I've set out my case mainly on the judge's discrimination that he showed towards me in his documents. This is one of the rules that the Upper Tribunal do not like the First- tier judges to do.

They've tried to stop me - but they failed I was granted my right to appeal to the Upper Tribunal. I really hope that these people show some fairness towards me. I believe that I have a very strong case.

Hello everybody

Well I set off this morning at 8:am to go to the Upper Tribunal hearing I had a map that was sent to me by the Upper Tribunal of how to get there.

What a nightmare? The map proved to be useless where they said the tribunal building was - wasn't there? It was about a mile away from where they said it was on their map. I was supposed to be there at 10:am but didn't arrive until 11.15 am

I had my hearing in a court room, and everything was being recorded. The hearing judge was very nice, and made me feel at ease - ( I never called him sir once!!!!) but he didn't seem to mind this. I laid out my case, and believe that I put it very well - he did actually thank me for my presentation.

I really dont know what's going to happen next - he told me that he will make his decision in about 3 weeks time.

I would really love to think that justice will be seen to be done - but I'm not holding my breath, he knows all of these tribunal judges personally, and I really cannot see him letting me get any further - The state doesn't work this way - it's put in place for their protection, I'm just a little nobody who's causing trouble to the establishment.

If he was to go in my favour then it would mean serious consequences for the tribunal system, and the system of using provided doctors reports over and above the claimants GP's - If you look on the provided doctors reports - The state gives them the invite to guess, which obviously is totally wrong. I told the Upper Tribunal Judge this but I dont expect him to take any notice of me.

That's really all that I can say for now, because I dont know what's going to happen next.

Hello everybody

I have a letter that I received In September 2009 that I meant to post on this site, it's very interesting - It was written by a Chief Executive from the Pension, Disability and Carers Service.

This letter gives a great insight into the thoughts and running of the DWP.

Here's part of the letter:

...the fact that a decision may be overturned later at appeal does not necessarily mean that it was wrong. A fair and reasonable decision based on the application of the law to facts andevidence that are available at the time can be changed because the tribunal are entitled to reach a different conclusion based on the same evidence.

REALLY!!!! WHY's THAT?

... an appeal tribunal may have the advantage of seeing the customer or of further evidence produced by the customer or their representive. In fact the main reason for decision being overturned at appeal is the provision of new evidence at the appeal hearing itself.

THIS STATEMENT IS NOT TRUE: I was told by the Upper Tribunal Judge that the First - Tier tribunal does not have to accept any further evidence produced past the claim pack - this has been the case for the last 10 years.

This is a very interesting statement from the letter:

...you also expressed concerns that the decision makers are not medically qualified. Decision Makers do not diagnose medical conditions but are required to make impartial decisions based on the application of the law to the facts of the individual case. They receive extensive training and have access to information and advice when considering more complex cases.

The next thing he wrote was a shock to me, listen to this:

...Although GP's or Consultants diagnose disabilites or illnesses and treat patients, they are not necessarily aware of the customers day- to -day care and mobility needs on which entitlement to DLA depends. HCP's are specifically trained to assess these needs and provide their opinion of the person's functional ability to the decision maker based on their examination, observation and questioning of the customer.

REALLY!!!!! SO A HALF HOUR CHAT WITH SOMEBODY WHO DOESN'T KNOW THE FIRST THING ABOUT YOU IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR GP AND CONSULTANT - I THINK NOT.

This is the worse bit:

...HCP's are not routinely asked to conduct a formal walking test during a DLA assessment as this only gives them an indication of how the customer can walk at that single point in time.

When assessing mobility, the customer does not have to be seen walking outside. The HCP will form their opinion of the customers mobility based on the clinical findings following a physical examination, and the observations they make during the period of assessment. An indication of a customer mobility can be gained through observing how they walk across a room or rise from a chair. They can also form an opinion on mobility by assessing such things as muscle bulk. tone, and back functions.

Well what do you think of that?? What a load of rubbish, it's no-wonder nobody is getting the DLA award if they're using this kind of assessment - you dont stand a chance.

Alan- I haven't heard from the Upper Tribunal yet.