Question about Disability Benefit

My theory is that these Upper tribunals are just there to keep you hanging on and like you in the end useless unless the tribunal have broke the rules in some way and so highly unlikely a good result for the Apellant if any rules are not broken by original first appeal..... total waste of time, my advice is just keep re-applying and you have more chance, as in the end they should listen to you, as another theory I think if you keep nagging them so to speak it kind of prooves you are genuine case as those that only had a \"sore back\" would maybe give up which is of course what they are wanting you to do!!!!

Good luck everyone xx

I agree with you - it's all a waste of time going to these tribunal's - I've got another claim pack - this time I'll fill it in with all the information about my medical condition, I've got a really good report from my GP that they wont be able to ignore. The Tribunal was not able to accept it because it's the rules that they've been given by the Secretary of State.

We'll see what happens this time.

I haven't finished the Upper Tribunal Statement yet - but I'll do it another day, it's really interesting.

Bye for now Alan X

This is the continuation of the Upper Tribunal Statement:

31. The tribunal set out both in their findings and their reasoning with some care and in some detail. I can see no realistic argument that the tribunal may have misinterprented the relevant law or erred in it's treatment of the facts it found. It is certainly not the role of the Upper Tribunal to teach the First- tier tribunal how to weigh the evidence it receives.

(6) The tribunal judge made \"dishonest stetements\" in the statements of reasons:

32. This is really just another way of the applicant stating that he disagrees with the tribunals findings of fact and in particular how his evidence was treated. On closer examination, however, I am satisisfied that the grounds will stand up. For example, the applicant denies that he ever said that he used a wheelchair when using the airport to go to Spain in 2006. However, the Record of Proceedings states clearly \"Spain? Cab - Gatwick, then w/chair at other end\" The applicants own recollection is that he referred to using a \"trolly\" or airport buggy. I prefer the judge's contemportanous record for the same reason as above. In any event, the disagreement is not material - use of a wheelchair would if anything had made the applicants case stronger ,not weaker.

This is me talking - the last statement made by the judge is quite frankly discraceful to his profession - He's telling me that a \"lie \" would have made my case stronger. How dare this person say such a thing!!!!!

If I had been getting DLA - I would have been classed as a \"Benefit Cheat\" for making this statement!!

There's more to come but later.

Alan D

This is the continuation of the Upper Tribunal Statement - I know that it's probably very boring to read but this is a very important document for people who are thinking of taking my stance to read - it's also a legal record of information that's gone before.

33...Similarly the applicant also complains that the statement of reasons states that he was \"asked repeatedly\" questions about his walking ability when he asserts that he was not. However on the applicants own recollection the hearing lasted about 1 hour, and the Record of Proceedings shows a series of questions directed to this end, e.g. \"Effect [of visual problem] on mobility?; muscle spasms affect mobility?; Spondylosis?; Pain?\" along with questions about the extent to which he had been out and about or not. All those were relevant to mobility. This ground is not arguable.

This is me talking: I have absolutely no-idea what the judge is talking about here. The Dr was informed that my pain was 10/10 The DWP had already made it clear to me that my loss of an eye - does not relate to a disability. The Dr asked me if the loss of my eye was causing my dizzy spells - I told her that that it wasn't that - it's a known fact that some people who suffer from C/S get dizzy spells - this is caused by the partial blocking of artries - I believe as a Dr she would have already known this.

Muscle spasms are also a known problem with C/S

The next statement that the judge make is very interesting but I'll save it for another day.

Alan

PS

I've filled in another claim pack, this time I've left nothing to chance - I enclosed medical evidence from my GP which was used at my tribunal but wasn't accepted because it was made after the claim pack - Please note everybody, anything produced after your claim pack \"will not be accepted\"

even if it is strongly in your favour - but they, the DWP will use everything that they can against you!!!!!!

They've not even accepting the new evidence - they're once again writing to my GP for another report. My GP is well aware of these people now - What I'm going to do is: let my GP use the same form as the examiners use - this form is diobolical it invites the examiner to make guesses about you. which the DWP will use against you.

When they send the examiner around my house, I'm going to refuse to let him examine me: reason being I was told by the DWP that these people do not have to witness your gait or balance, because it would only refer to that point in time - which make the whole thing \"pointless\" I'm also going to give them the same form that that use - with my GP's version - this should be extremely interesting - it will prove that these people are shambolic and are stooges for the Secretary of State because I really cannot see another Dr overriding a claimants GP - this would be an unethical practice which I dont believe they would be prepared to do - this may be the way to stop these \"bogus\" doctors acting on behalf of the State for their pocket money. These people are causing horrendous damage to claimants of DLA by their guesses!!!

My hubby has got three injuries in his knees and has just had his cartlidge rmoved in one of them so now the arthritic joints has no support, he is in severe pain day in day out, he has advanced arthritis in his lumbar and thoracic spine, he has had a seizure through taking too many pain killers to numb the pain and recently we put an application form in.... and guess what it has gone to an appeal...... my hubby is going to see his consultant this month to see what further damage he has, and then we will resubmit another form as I know no this is all the DWP want you to do, is hang on for months and months and then only find out they wont award you and you have to take years I believe to fight it, I have primary biliary chiriosis, cervical Spondylosis with compression which makes my hands go numb, clicky hips, arthritis in hip, degenerative discs in lumbar spine, lost the curvarture also, along with under active thyroid, asthma, & acid reflux.... I had to fight for mine and it took from autumn 2006 till summer 2010, the DWP just do not want genuine applicants to get this!!!! Another way for the Condemed to save money!!!!

I hope they listen to you Alan this time x good luck x

I'm really sorry to hear about your husband, and your troubles.

I saw my GP the other day, and he told me something that a lot of people I'm sure wont know - These so-called \"expert\" Disability Examiners who work on behalf of the DWP have only 2 weeks training before they are classed as \"Experts!!!!!!!!\" And he told me something similar to what you said I think? If you keep at them they will give you the benefit of the doubt.

I got a phone call from the DWP the other day asking me if my disability has got \"worse\" - I told them yes, because it can never get any better.

They wrote back and told me that they're going to ask my GP for a medical report - We've been here already , haven't we?????

My GP said that they may not want to take me on again - because they will know that I know their tactics. and I'll be ready for them. How right he is.

There's more to the Upper Tribunal Report - but I'll do it another day as I'm working on my book which takes up a lot of my time.

Best wishes to your husband SES

Alan

Every time I turn my neck or move my body = Chronic pain.

Attend the pain clinic and have regular injections into my neck.

Flare ups are random, unpredictable and render me bed-ridden.

Continuously medicated with and now dependent on Morphine !

No one wants to employ a person who is medically dependent on prescribed Class A drugs, battling daily with continual chronic pain and discomfort to the point of distraction.

Perhaps I shall consider ask the DWC for their help in getting euthanasia on the NHS .... at least I wont be then forced to starve to death because I am sick, jobless and a white Christian .....

but I still can can manage to walk 200 yards - so Its all my own fault ...

Its a mad system ... wish you all the very best of luck

:oops:

What a state of affairs, you dont want to be talking about \"euthanasia\"

We have but one life, and with that life we have to accept what is dished out to us. What you're saying is what I'm fighting for - the current system of assessment is rotten to the core.

Tell these people that you cant walk 200 yards without feeling severe pain - tell these people that your walking distance is nil!!!

I saw on the TV the other day some of the questions that they're going to ask people to answer who are currently on Incapacity Benefit, and to be honest with you they're shameful and unworkable - they're designed to stop almost everybody who is on IB [not to get it.] They're trying it out first in Burnley and some part of Scotland. But I can tell these idiots now that it wont work - everybody who is turned down will I believe appeal- which will totally block up the system, and in the long run it will cost the goverment more money than it's worth, and in any case there are no jobs for people to do. so what's the point on trying to get people on JSA?

This country has now got the attitude that everybody who is on benefits is a benefit cheat. The goverment has created this climate for reasons which are obvious.

The real cheats are those MP's who swindled the people of this country out of millions of pounds over a considerable number of years, and most of them have got away with it, because they set up the system themselves. So they became a law unto themselves!!!

Keep going \"itsall my own fault\" Because it isn't.

All the best Alan

You ask what is the point of trying to get people on JSA. Well the answer is simple, the Government saves over £25 per person per week. It is not to get disabled people into work as there is none for them, it is just to save money. They have stated quite clearly that they intend to cut the benefit bill by 11 billion quid. So their aim is to get as many people as they can onto the lowest paid benefits. There are precious few jobs for the disabled, there are not even enough jobs for the able bodied unemployed, whose ranks are soon to swell.

No doubt they will make it harder to qualify for ESA and DLA, they will \"shift the goal posts\" are far as they can. No longer will you need to \"score\" 15 points but 150. They will say if you can breathe you can work.

I would like to know where the health and safety bods stand. Forcing sick and disabled people into the workplace can be very dangerous.

The next four years are going to be very tough. The government will claw back and squeeze as much money as they can from people, more than is needed to reduce the defecit. Then, just before the next general election, they will increase benefits, cut taxes and give bonuses all just to fool people into voting them back in. Mind you the previous bunch were just as bad. I wonder how much government cash has been spent on the tribunals in the last couple of years. They will spend a pound to save a penny.

Janner

I agree with everything you say - I've heard some nasties in the last few days regarding the re- testing of Incapacity Benefit some of the question's being asked to claimants are:

...can you walk 10 yards

...can you turn on a tap

...can you take a pen from your top pocket

...can you touch your toes

Obviously there's many more but this is the type of questions that they're asking - I think that a lot of disabled people will be able to do most of the stupid questions being asked - so they would fail the stupid test.And some of them will be classed as no- longer disabled. Which is criminal.

There's going to be an awful lot of people lining up for the tribunal service,

and I believe most of the decision's that will be made - will be reversed on appeal - but this goverment couldn't careless.

I never ever thought that a group of people in power would stoop so low as to attack the most vulnerable people in our society.

Not many employers I'm sure would employ a disabled person over a \"normal\" person. [why would they? ] There's always been discrimination in this country regarding disabled people - it seems to me that this goverment doesn't want anybody to be classed as disabled.

Nobody choses to be disabled - able bodied people dont seem to understand this - we're all classed as cheats now and the able bodied people love this. so where we go from here? I really dont know.

It's good to see you back on the pages janner - we need you here.

Alan

Almost two weeks ago I had another DWP assessment with a doc from planet ATOS, I'm still waiting for the result. I could not do much of what was asked of me owing to pain and discomfort. I refused to climb up onto the couch, with the aid of a step stool, as last time I fell off the darn thing. The couch had no backrest or arm rests.

The following week I went for another MRI scan, this time to scan my brain to check for nerve damage to my eyes. I ended up in A&E. When I arrived at the hospital by bus, somewhat early, I thought I would go and look in a few nearby shops to pass the time. I got half way and realised I could not walk straight, I was so dizzy I was all over the damn place. Worried I staggered back to the Hospital and asked for help. I was put in a wheelchair, had my scan, then was taken to A&E. The Doc said I need another scan on me neck to see if it has worsened, which I know it has. I was not prepared to stay for that as it was very late by then and I would not have got home until the wee small hours. I see my GP tomorrow so I will ask for another MRI on my neck. I will know, tomorrow, the results of recent x-rays and blood tests. I am attending hospital so often lately that I will soon be on the staff.

If the DWP declare me fit enough for JSA, not work just JSA, I will have to join the queue to the tribunal again. I won last time and should win again, but I'd rather the cost of it was put to improving my health. However, I would not put it past our government to try to manipulate the tribunal system in order to punish the disabled even further. All our appeals must be costing them a fortune, they will probaby abolish appeals as part of their cutbacks.

Janner

This is the continuation of the Upper Tribunal Report.

(7) The tribunal was biased against the applicant and in favour of the Secretary of State.

34...It is very easy to make an allegation of bias but rather difficult to disprove it. A claimant whose appeal is unsuccessful but remains convinced of the merits of his or her case may be tempted to conclude that the only possible explanation was the bias of the court or tribunal concerned. However, the applicant has proved no reason to suggest that there was any degree of personal bias or animosty against him on the part of the tribunal. Tribunal judges and members, like court judges, swear the judicial oath and undertake to apply the law without fear or favour. They are not employed by the Secretary of State for Works and Pensions and indeed have no connection with this department. The tribunal statistics, which the applicant himself refers to in the papers, show that a relatively high proportion of DLA appeals are successful at tribunals (in the order of 40 per cent or more) This all makes the suggestion that this tribunal was in some way biased simply unsustainable. It was simply doing its job as best it could on the evidence that it had.

This is me talking: It was my information that I found out that at least 40 per cent of the decisions made by the Decision Makers at appeal were found to be incorrect. No information was available as to how many of these cases refered to mobility

This high figure makes the practice of these Decision Makers at best questionable and at worst corrupt!!!

The worst aspect about the process of going to a tribunal is:

(26) ....that the tribunals powers were limited to considering matters down to the date pack of the original decision.

This practice also applies to real court procedure - so in fact when you go to these so- called independent hearing's - they are in fact going by law - but they kid you into believing that they're informal affairs (no they're not!!)

This means that you could have produced new Medical Evidence at your tribunal which confirms that you're entitled to the award of DLA Mobility but the tribunal panel cannot use this evidence, because the Secretary of State had told them that.This in my opinion would make these people on the panel biased in favour of the State because they have to be.

The only course of action if you have new medical evidence is not to go for a tribunal - but to fill in a new claim pack with the new evidence.

The DWP are well aware of this but they wont tell you - they know fully well that you will be wasting your precious time, going to a tribunal.

This in fact saves them loads of money - I believe the 40 per cent that is quoted doesn't represent( DLA Mobility claims )- It's more likely to be for the old Incapacity claims and other bits and pieces that these dreadful Decision Makers get wrong.

I'm still fighting!!!

Alan

There's been good news - At last they have awarded me the highest DLA Mobility rate - It's taken 2 years!! So I finally answered my question, had anybody ever received DLA Mobility for C/S

Well the answer is now \"YES\" so it is possible.

I have learned several things in my battle to gain this award the most important being: That the Examining doctors medical reports are really not worth the paper that they're written on, because the head person from the DWP wrote and told me that the medical only refers to that \"point in time\" So this statement makes them pointless.

I've always believed that your GP and consultants views about you are really the only medical evidence that should be accepted - but the State has set a shambolic system for themselves so as to deny claimants from claiming.

It's very important that you get your GP on your side - this is what I did,if he or she believes that you're entitled to DLA Mobility and is willing to help you fight then you will get it.I want to thank all the people who helped me, especially you SES - you started me on the road.

This is not the end for me - I believe that there are thousands of people out there who should be getting this benefit, and if I can help in any way.

Please use this site, and I will help . if I can.

Thank you everybody

All the bst Alan

I am very happy for you!!!!! I have been following your story for a while now...I am in Australia, so things are very different here and i am on Workcover for my injury that caused the CS.

Hopefully you can have less stress in your life now....that helps with pain for me!!!

Jassy... :fairy:

I battled so hard with these people, and in the end it was the very people who had turned me down that changed their minds and awarded me the benefit - [The dreaded Decision Makers!!]

I really hope my postings will help other people who are thinking about claiming DLA Mobility - It can be done but you must never give up.

I knew that I was going to win after my last visit to my GP - who was one of the Medical Examiners himself once - He told me that they would grant me the award because in his words \" I knew too much\"

Well through my posting, I hope that everyone else will also \"know too much\"

Thanks once again - you're so lucky to be living in Australia, it's seems to be more civilised than this country.

All the best Alan.