Reduced Tablet 6 Months Ago-Still Withdrawal or Menopause? Advice Needed Please
Posted , 5 users are following.
Hi, i reduced my 37.5 mg tablet by a quarter 6 months ago and i am not sure if what i am experiencing is still withdrawal symptoms or menopause symptoms??! I had already done 2 previous cuts of quarters last year without any problems, maybe headaches cant actually remember! I use a pill cutter so the 1/4's are not exactly the same size each day but the difference wouldnt be really big (maybe it doesnt need to be?). I am still experiencing anxious feeling in my chest-sometimes on wakening other times it can kick in at any time of the day, weepy feeling and or crying, feeling hot/flushes, feeling of being cold, headaches-mainly on wakening, low/flat mood.
My problem is that due to ongoing symptoms i am due to change my hrt to a higher dose which i am scared to do in case its the wrong thing or could it be that the difference in size of a 1/4 of a pill on a daily basis could be causing all of these problems???
Has anyone else experienced anything similar or could give some advice please im in such a pickle about what to do.
Many thanks in advance for any replies, x.
0 likes, 13 replies
nigel45109 angela65121
Posted
hello, given the amount reduced, and time since, i dont think its withdrawal, because your body has now adjusted to the lower dose. it may be that you need the higher dose, to deal with your anxiety? you need to speak to your dr and person dealing with the hrt, and go by their consensus, as too many variables and unknowns.
nigel45109
Posted
the two areas, anxiety and hrt will be strongly linked to each other, and you have a hrt increase due. the person dealing with the hrt is probably the best source for advice.
angela65121 nigel45109
Posted
Hi Nigel thank you for your replies. I hadnt told the hrt clinic i had reduced my ad as they probably wouldnt be too happy about it. I did increase my a d again by a quarter but only lasted 2 nights at it as it made me feel like i didnt care about anything....if someone had asked me how i felt about my daughters i would has said 'yeah they are ok' i couldnt really care didnt have my normal loving feelings for them, i wasnt interested in engaging with them I just cant stand feeling like that! Do you know what i mean?, would it take the normal 6-8 weeks (the time it would usually take for ven to take effect) for that to pass do you think with doing an increase of a 1/4 of a tablet? I know you dont really know Nigel and neither will my dr or hrt clinic probably it will be a case of doing one or the other and seeing what happens....if i increase the hrt and its the wrong thing it could effect me badly. Maybe increasing the a d is the lesser of 2 evils. Just to say i have never suffered from anxiety until i hit menopause i dont know what it feels like per say, i dont actually feel anxious about anything i just get this anxious feeling in my chest the only way i can describe it. Thank you if you have read to the end of this post i know im just rabbiting on!
nigel45109 angela65121
Posted
when we feel anxious, we chase the quest of altering meds, to makes us feel better. meds after getting over the initial start up, eventually make you feel better, though not always, and you need to tried another. meds can only do so much. often people have been on a med for a long time, and start believing the med is the cause of the issue, and start to come off them. for a few, this may be the case. for most i think, its the wrong thing to do. you should only come off an anti dep, if uouve been feeling good for at least 6 months. one thing about withdrawing, whether slowly and correctly, or quickly, but completely wrong, is that we can i initially feel better, ie, youve achieved something, so feel good about it. however, after a few weeks, the feel good wears off, and thats when you find out whether you genuinely are better for it, or you start declining, as you still need the med. most people still need the anti dep. in your case you are talking about extremely low values, so i think your thoughts are driving how you feel, rather than the dose. you need to tell your dr and hrt person, so you can get informed advice, as changes in both, will effect each other.
Nixy angela65121
Posted
HI Angela
I have been reading your posts and i too am at a similar age (i assume) as started early menopause. I tried hrt and it didnt help me, it gave me heart palpitations so i stopped.
So.... over a year ago i started a very low dose of VEN. I am now on 18.7mg a day, not exactly sure as i have to cut the tablets myself... but roughly that.
What you said about your feelings really struck a cord, as i too have felt quite numb on the highest dose i was taking which was 75mg. Now im down to 18ish mg im starting to feel more tuned in. Reducing has been ok so far. But im yet to quit completely and thats the scary part.
My main reasons for coming off this, is the 2 plus stone weight gain, im so embarrassed about how i look now, relationship with my husband has suffered because i was feeling so numb. He said im not the same on this medication and i agree with him.
I hope you manage to get the balance of hrt and ven right, i know its not easy for us ladies.
x
ZenMed1965 angela65121
Posted
It can definitely be withdrawal. When I came off ven too fast I also came off the BCP and found I was in menopause. I do not recommend doing any of that all at once! The hot flashes were unreal, and I would have such wild temperature swings at night that I'd be drenched with sweat running off my body, sheets soaked, and then freeze! During the day I'd have the same thing. In addition I had a burning skin sensation. I reinstated the ven (not the BCP) and the hot flashes backed off considerably. I visited a Facebook Ven group and ask if others (including men) had the wild hot flashes/temp regulation/burning skin and they said yes.
I tried HRT during the original withdrawal and it didn't make a difference, only the reinstatement did. You have come down by 25% but indeed if your doses vary then you are yanking your nervous system around with that inconsistency. I recommend getting a milligram jeweler's scale, inexpensive on Amazon, and try getting more consistent dosing, might settle things out for you. I know it is a pain.
I did a very slow taper of two antidepressants, Ven and mirtazapine, over the last four years, but after my original protracted withdrawal which was so very bad, I felt I needed to go this slowly to be successful. I am now on about 0.3 mg and ready to jump off in the next week. I still get waves of heat in the night, but no drenching sweat and nothing that I can't live with. A 25% cut can be destabilizing but you should have settled out by 6 months. You may just be very sensitive and need to do no more than 10% at a time, no more often than once a month. Never cut when you are feeling withdrawal.
And yes, low mood and anxiety are part of withdrawal. Do you feel better later in the day? That is common with withdrawal, bad in the morning but better later in the day. Headaches are common as well.
ZenMed1965
Posted
I will add that the withdrawal version of anxiety can definitely be a body feel, twinge in the gut/chest, without there being triggering thoughts.
angela65121
Posted
Hi Nixy thank you for your reply. You are also cutting your tablets like me can i ask you obvisiously its hard to get it exactly the same each day do you find you feel different daily either withdrawal type symptoms or cuz you have had slightly more? The difference in my quarters is minimal but i really feel it and its totally horrible feel so stuck because if i increase by a qrtr again know im going to go back to feeling nothing, crying, low mood. Wondered your experience in your journey of reducing from 75mg, x.
angela65121
Posted
Hi ZenMed thanks for your reply. What i dont understand is i was able to do 2 qrtr cuts last year and didnt have problems like this. I never cut again until i feel stable always leaving it weeks at a time to be sure. Yesterday i know my qrtr was slightly bigger this morning i woke with a headache, mood not good at all, tears after a while and have felt low, uninterested all day. I believed it was cuz my hrt needed increased but over the last couple of days im starting to think its all down to my a d. I tried to increase again by a qrtr a couple of weeks ago but had to stop after 2 nights as it made me feel nothing for my girls i couldnt have cared less, really really low about me, my life, tears, just cant cope with that. Even if i get scales (which i will) its still going to be really hard to get a tablet cut right. If i did increase again would the side effects last for the typical 6-8 weeks or longer do you think? Your thoughts and advice would be much appreciated please. Menopause is also playing a part which just makes it all more confusing. Hope you see this message i dont know how to send it from angela to zenmed?, x.
ZenMed1965 angela65121
Posted
Sorry to not reply in a timely manner. My experience from spending time on the withdrawal forum is that people often can have an easy time coming off a drug the first time but the second time it is very difficult, and the belief is that the nervous system becomes sensitized for the future. Also, I always wonder why people go back on the drug after "successfully" coming off and I suspect it is because they ended up having emotional withdrawal symptoms (anxiety/depression) which made the patient/doctor think they had replapsed and so they go back on, "need the med."Without physical symptoms, that is what everyone seems to conclude, but the emotional are very much withdrawal symptoms. I've known plenty of people who went on AD for other reasons, insomnia, pain, who had anxiety and depression when trying to come off, not their original complaint! Anyway, the more the nervous system gets yanked around with dosage changes, drug changes, whatever, the more sensitive it becomes to future actions.
As for the scale, what I ended up doing is getting a pill crusher that allowed me to powder the pills and then weighed out the powder doses. If you have a small airtight container or even a gel capsule to put the remaining powder in, you can then save it towards the next dose. Put a piece of wax paper, folded to make creases to hold the powder, on the scale to weigh. I worked in a lab and so I felt comfortable and knowledgeable about such ways to weigh powders. I even bought empty gel capsules to put the powder in, so that I could weigh out the week's doses all in one sitting. Nice to not have to think about the taper for at least 6 days a week! And that's important, because dealing with making your dose every day keeps you thinking (and obsessing, in my case!) about the taper, and it's actually good for you to be able to forget about it and go on living your life!
ZenMed1965
Posted
Oops, lost track of which drug we are talking about here, Ven or Mirtazapine. I did the powder grinding with mirtazapine since I was on the ER version of Ven beads, and you can't powder the extended release version even when you have the larger tablet within capsule version. If you have the immediate release tablets, you can. BUT, that would need to be taken twice a day.
mollysox angela65121
Posted
This is the most evil drug to come off. I belong to a dedicated site just for withdrawal. They recommend tapering by 10% and holding until you feel ready for the next 10%. They use jewellery scales to weigh and they count the beads out and the micro tabs. If you take a slow release it advisable not to cut in half as this affects the slow release. Sorry to be so gloom and doom but it has to be tapered very slowly and many Drs do not understand this
mollysox angela65121
Posted
10% tapering and holding . Those are all withdrawal symptoms in my opinion