Reflux and heartburn after gallbladder surgery

Hello Paul 

Yes I had both tests done last month but they haven't got the results yet, I only have an app. With the doctor in March 17th. I am feeling more pain now so I really asked for the surgeon's secretary to let him know that I can't wait another month just for him to tell me about the report. I actually said how ridiculous is that. 

May I ask you if you ever experienced painful spasms in your chest? I have to lie down when I have those in my back. I am praying that is not bile reflux because no meds made any difference to me. What did you take for your bile? Maybe there's somthing I haven't heard about. 

I Hope you  can get the right treatment and please keep us posted about how you get on. I was told by a specialist that those 2 tests are crucial to know what's going on. All the best luck

 

Thaks for getting back to me. please post the results of your tests as it would be great to know how things are going. I have my next appointment on the 5th March. I also have been suffering and asked my GP to write to the specialist in December to move my appointment forward............Guess what?? They have never moved my appointment, they are just the worst and I am going to make clear how upset and angry I am about my treatment when I go in the next couple of weeks.

I have experienced terrible spasms in my chest after a night of sleep and when I stretch in the morning.........absolute agony!! Feels like a heart attack!! Then it subsides but is even sore to the touch.

I just want a full diagnosis and then I will look at what treatment is open to me. Until they give me a full diagnosis I cannot start to get myself fixed. It is unbelievable it has taken 3 years and I still have not had a Ph test or gastric emptying study or anything. I will be getting all those things done as soon as I have my appointment. If you do not firght you get nothing from these people. They must only be interested when you finally get cancer and they can tick a target off rather than helping people who need it but do not have cancer. It is outrageous, Lewisham Hospital have really let me down and I will make sure it changes when I get there. Godd luck with your results...........I have found mottilium (Domperidone) has helped a little but other than that I have not had anyt treatment other than Denoltab (Prescribed for stomach ulcers even though I have been told I do not have a stomach ulcer.....) which never worked (unsurprisingly). If I find anything else I will let you know......Good Luck. Hope we can both get through this!!

OK, without the link then...

Chest spasms.  Have you been checked for a hiatal hernia?  There's a story about a doctor who discovered that his 88yo Dad had a hiatal hernia and he got relief by doing this weird maneuver drinking a bunch of water and then jumping on a trampoline.  There are also massages that you can do or a chiropractor can do a soft tissue realignment (I'm not sure I would let someone else touch me but I might if I was desperate).

One of the symptoms of hiatal hernia is chest spasms and also acid reflux.  Hiatal hernia can result from pregnancy or any other condition that causes the stomach to press up tight so that it slides into the chest, e.g. weight lifting, crunches, etc.

Hi Barry, with me I have had a endoscopy and a ultra sound and I suppose that would have shown up a hernia...........unfortunately i wish it had. I am gonna push for further tests becasue I can't carry on like this much longer/ I am only 40, have been suffering for 4-5 years and have had no treatment as yet. Just 2 endoscopies............It is driving me bonkers!!

Hey Paul- sorry about your acid reflux.  I've only been dealing with it for 5 months (soon to be 6; time flies when you're having fun...not!) and I've found some things that do seem to help.  H2 blockers give some relief and so do PPIs.  If neither H2 blockers nor PPIs gave someone any relief I would suspect something other than acid might be at play.  There's been a lot of discussion about bile reflux for folks without their gallbladder, the theory being that the bile and acid mixed together in the stomach which churns and spits out some of it into the esophagus (that's the short version of the explanation).  There are bile acid sequestrants (colestyramine is one I use) that can soak up this bile and push it through and out.

What have you tried and what has worked (if even a little) so far?

No I haven't been check for hiatal hernia. After I delivered I was fine with my chest and digestion apart from GB attacks of course. I had  GB surgery two months after my daughter was born. Never had any issues with heartburn or chest pains whatsoever. I don't think I have a hernia but I think I need all tests that I can to rule out anything. Thanks

Have you've ever tried denol or sucralfate? Those were the drugs suggested by a gastro if bile is actually the culprit of my reflux. I have to say that both made me very constipated and sucralfate made me nauseated. I don't take anything now for like 2 months and now the pain in my chest is also radiating to my back. I take paracetamol when pain is too unbearable. 

If no meds help with bile/ acid reflux I 've read that only surgery can help, but  I'm scared because the surgery to treat bile is a huge surgery where they redirect the stomach away from the bile duct. Have you ever heard about it or know anyone that has done it?

I also tried denoltab which help a little bit with my symptoms but they don't really treat anything,  it protects  the lining of the stomach and esophagus. The side effects are also terrible. I was so constipated I had to stop taking any meds. This is a constant battle.m. I am only 39 and just had a baby but now I feel sick every day. I really hope that there is a solution for this condition, whatever it is..

Hi Leni

I am so sorry to hear your still so sick. I'm not great myself. Haven't slept a full nights sleep since I had the operation 10 weeks ago. Still waking up in the middle of the night with terrible nausea and sometimes vomit bile too. I have a 4 year old and finding it hard to cope with this. I am a very positive person but this has wrecked me completely. The only thing I can be thankful for is that I have no pain. I don't know how your able to look after your baby. I pray that we both turn the corner soon and recover fully from this. Thinking of you. Take care. X

Hi Acejohnston

Thanks for your support. I've never slept too a full night sleep ever again with the worry and of course having a very young baby. It is what it keeps me going actually. Take care 

Colestyramine is a different type of drug.  It's a bile acid sequestrant.  There are others.  They soak up the excess bile and push it through your system.  A soluble fiber (e.g. oatmeal or a supplement) will do something similar but not as effective.  As I noted in an earlier reply, a high quality probiotic protects the intestine better than anything else.  It doesn't do anything for the stomach though.

It looks like my ox bile experiment is a bust.  No benefit.  Now I'm looking back at the NOW SuperEnzymes to find out if perhaps it was the Betaine HCL that helped me after all.  Problem is that it's very irritating to my esophasugs so I'm trying an alternative...Apple Cider Vinegar but in capsule form, not the liquid stuff (or tablets) which feels like drinking a drain opener to my esophagus.  I started taking it on Saturday night after each meal (1 pill) with a big gulp of water to make sure it washes all the way down to my stomach.  So far I haven't had to take any Tums and on average I'd been using 4 or 5 per day in addition to the H2 blocker I'm taking.  This is a very good sign.

If this works it would mean that all those crazies out there saying that the problem is not too much stomach acid but too little are right, however they are simply explaining it erroneously.  My stomach is producing plenty of acid.  Just ask my esophagus!  The problem could be that the PH is just not getting low enough quickly enough.  The Apple Cider Vinegar, in that scenario, would be sending a signal to the stomach saying "Here's your low PH!  Now...proceed to the next digestion phase already!".  I'll keep you posted.

 

Hi Leni! I'm so sorry you are still having issues after surgery. When you had your test did they find anything in the test? This is crazy that they can't give you any answers yet. 

Are you just having the bile attacks or are you still having pain too?  I was really hoping by now you had answers.  How's the little one doing?  I'm hoping you get answers real soon or feel better real soon.

Lori

That's another good theory. I am also definitely producing enough acid as I feel it up my throat too! I take supplements that contain Hcl but possibly not enough? I tried the apple cider vinegar last night after my meal, in its liquid form. My throat did not thank me! However, no reflux. Coincidence maybe but let's see if it happens tonight.

Just on another note, do you get a feeling of acidic liquid flowing down from the stomach to the small intestine? It's like a warm feeling, intermittent, that is perhaps acidic chyme that hasn't been alkalised enough??? Just a theory.

This morning my esophagus was hurting to the point where I broke down and started back on Prilosec.  We've had very chilly weather and I'm not sure that some of my problem isn't due to cold temperatures.  Whenever I go outside the cold air really irritates my chest, much more so than in prior years before I started on this acid reflux odyssey.  Unfortunately, this sort of puts a damper on any further natural remedies, ACV or otherwise, because PPIs do work for me and it's impossible to tell what's working and what's not.  I guess I will need to regroup with an action plan once I feel that my esophagus is healed enough to get off these darn pills.

Have you had tests to prove you have acid reflux?

Other than the fact that all the drugs including antacids, H2 blockers and PPIs (over the counter and prescription) relieve my symptoms, I've had no tests that confirm acid reflux.  What tests did you have in mind exactly?

The 24 hour ph test, Bravo test, endoscopy etc

I've had none of those tests but they might be in my future if I can't get it under control.  My problem is that PPIs are the first line of defense and they do work for me.  I'm one of the 90 percenters who go to the doctor and say "Got this problem with excessive heat/bile/heartburn/indigestion/whatever" and the doctor says "Here (PPI samples), try these".  I go take the samples and they work.....BUT I don't want to take them due to long term side effects.  Most doctors don't have time for this nonsense.  The medicine works, what else do you want?  That's why I came to this web site.

Hi Lori  I' m still waiting for results!! And yes I'm having pain too, In my chest and back area mainly. 

The baby is doing fine. Thanks for asking.

I just need to wait for my appointment now to see if I can find out what's been causing all this. Thanks x

Hi Barry,

Sorry for the late reply.........thanks for getting in touch. "Great" to hear that it is not just me suffering! Genuinely happy you have only been like this for around six months. With the benefit of hindsight you must push your GP, specialist and everyone else. They do the bare minimum to rule out "serious" conditions then you are on your own. I have had 2 endoscopies but what I really need is the PH test and manometry and then I will at least have a diagnosis. I only realised that this was available 7 months ago and my specialist was due to see me this Thursday when I would have demanded the tests. Alas they have yet again moved my appointment back 3 months.

In other words fight, fight and fight again otherwise you will be 4 years down the road like me! In terms of what gives me any sort of relief (and that sin't much) the only thing that has worked for me has been Domperidone. I do not take it regularly but when things become really bad and I get really backed up it does seem to give some relief. Other than that I ahve not really had much prescribed as I have put my trust in my specialist who has been worse than useless. All I want is a diagnosis and then I will be able to consider action. I have heard great things about the Linx operation. If I know it will work I would pay for it privately but until I get a full diagnosis I can't just open my wallet and hope for the best. Where do you get colestyramine from? How does it work and do you think it helps? Cheers Paul

Hi Leni,

Please let us know uyou PH test results as soon as you get 'em. Hoping for the best for you and really interested to know what happens after you finally know what is going on!

Paul

Hi Paul-  Sorry you are not feeling well.  Colestyramine is what's called a bile acid sequestrant.  It soaks up bile acid from the gut and pushes it out of your tract.  For people who have problems with IBS it works great.  I'm not sure whether it works for people with bile reflux or not but it's worth a try.  The main side effect is that it slows down the tract similar to a soluble fiber and may give some people diarrhea if taken every day.  I take it as-needed.  Google the term bile acid sequestrant.  There are others.  Some come in pill form.  Colestyramine is a powder and comes in packets that you mix with water or juice.

Leni sorry you are still hurting and have no answers yet.  I have found that fried fish doesn't agree with me anymore, even though fries don't bug me.

I have been so stressed out with home life that if I eat a hamburger when stressed it goes right through me.

My daughter is doing great. Stressed with kids and teachers at school. Stressed at home stuff and not sleeping to well.  When it is just her and me things are great.

I have been having physical therapy for my shoulder that got hurt back in the 80's and hurt again in April (husband did it). Finally asked about seeing someone to get help for my shoulder since I'm left handed and it is my bad shoulder. So far so good. Hurts a less and hopefully getting stronger. Still goes numb at times.

Our oldest cat, almost 16 got sick last month and is finally better. Husband is starting to get help with his anger this week after he almost hit me Saturday.

Waiting for results are so stressful. I hope they finally have answers.  It has been one thing after another thing here and I'm hang in there but I really just want to scream.

Let me know what you find out. We are mom's I can't help to see how the baby is doing. My baby isn't a baby anymore; she will be 13 this 4th of July.

Take Care!

Lori

It's no better up here, year 4 for me lost over 4 stone from various flares stopping me eating and only managed to get through with drinks they give people who cant eat in hosp. I have not even managed an endo, i bit it and they wont do me one again now. I had a ct 3 weeks back and my diagnosis followed functional acid reflux. How they can decide that with no camera images i do not know. Y do they treat us like this?

Hi Leni-

I remembered this post where you mentioned that you "Just had a baby" and ran across a web site that I won't include because my post will be deleted.  I'll give you the search terms so you can find it if you're interested.  Search for drgomniak and you'll find she has a web site.  Lots of stuff on Vitamin D and sleep disorders and conditions caused by low vitamin D and lack of sleep, one of which is acid reflux, but she specifically mentions women who just had a baby coming to see her complaining of chest pain.  See the page with Lectures, and see the slide presentation on Sleep, Vitamins and Cardiovascular Disease.  First bullet on slide 62.

Not sure if it is (or was) your condition or not, but there seems to be a connection with low vitamins D and B12 following pregnancy and poor sleep (along with a host of other related health complaints --- see slides 39, 40 and 44).  She contends that the normal range of vitamin D for healing sleep is between 60 and 80, even though most blood tests will show a normal range at anything between 30 and 100.  If someone is between 30 and 60, they need to supplement in order to get it up to 60.  In the winter it's a double whammy because lack of UVB rays leads to a rapid depletion of D stores.

Take care,

Barry

Some observations about sucralfate- I've been using it lately for about 2 months and at first it was making me dizzy after I first started it.  After a while my body has either gotten used to it or perhaps the dizziness is caused when it hits the irritated parts of my stomach and makes them slightly MORE irritated while it goes to work.  I dunno.  It's just a theory, but the sucralfate seems to be helping me get off the Nexium.  I've counteracted the constipation by drinking more water.