Refusing to take statins. What can my doctor do?

Posted , 24 users are following.

Hi,

Having read a lot about statins, the very high numbers needed to treat and the harm they can do, I told my doctor I did not wish to take them. We almost ended up by arguing as she dismissed my concerns and insisted that her advice is that I should take them. Mu current level is 7.3.

I showed her research which showed the numbers needed to treat (NNT) for statin use in those who have not been diagnosed as having heart disease is between 50 and 250; I showed her a pro-statin study which said if 1000 patients were statinised for 5 years, just 18 events of cardiac disease would be avoided. The study hailed that as a success!

Still she repeated her advice. I asked if I still refused would she have me exception reported as a non-complier and she shrugged which I took to mean 'yes'.

My previous doctor, now retired, understood my reluctance to take statins and the reasons for it and didn't push them onto me. It seems that the new doctor is now bullying me into taking her advice to take statins.

Blood tests have all shown my liver to be functioning as it should and yet the new doctor told that if I take the statins I must have another test to ensure they are not damaging my liver, a known possible side effect!

Given the huge controversy around statin use, can anyone tell me where I stand if I still refuse to take the doctors advice? Can she kick me off her list at a surgery where I have been a patient for 70 years?

4 likes, 53 replies

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  • Posted

    A neighbour stopped taking his statins several weeks ago. He had a blood test last week and as a result was called to the surgery. His doctor said she wanted to double the dose from a 20mg to a 40mg dose as his cholesterol levels had risen. He hadn't at that stage told here he had stopped taking the statins weeks before.

    I suggested he asked the surgery what his levels were. He came the figure of 5.4!!

    From what I have read that is in the "optimum" level of between 5 and 7 mmol/l.

    He called the surgery again to check the numbers and they confirmed the 5.4. He then asked why, as he had dieted away a stone in weight and the level appeared quite normal, was he being advised to double the dose. Surgery replied: " We want to get everyone below 5."

    Seems to me there could be what may be called a scandal here. People are being asked to take a drug which can have all sorts of side effects with little evidence of benefit so that, according to Dr Phil Hammond in "Trust me I'm still a doctor" the surgery can claim the government payment for reaching the target of 60% of patients below the arbitrary level of 5.

  • Posted

    Another thing that bothers me about all these blood tests is that the blood is always taken from the same vein in my arm

    How can constantly making holes in my vein in same area be wise? How do we know what happens when the vein heals? Is there any protrusion inside the vessel? And all because they are treating folks who are not sick.

    • Posted

      I'vejust been reading up on news that U.K. doctors areto be paid £50 for every patient they diagnose withdementia 'to help meet targets' and came across information that they are also paid for every patient put on statins (They kept that one quiet) -as someone who has been on statins for over twenty-odd years and suffered debilitating leg and hip pain and weakness until about four years ago, -in conversation with practice nurse -mentioned the pains, -which I thought I just had to put up with, -she told me she'd put me on another brand of statin, -I asked what good that would do,- she said the one I was on had a reputation for causing side effects, -but doctors were told to prescribe it first , -as not everyone suffered to the same degree, -but if patient complained, -and only if, -change to more suitable brand, -and also dropped from 40mg to 10 mg,.  -I still get pain and weakness in legs and hip, -but nowhere near as bad.  (Used to stop at bus stop and have a seat for 5 mins to ease pain, -pretending to wait for bus.) -best of luck.
    • Posted

      They have done you physical harm, what have they done to your cholesterol levels?
    • Posted

      There seems to be an idea amongst the statin converts that it is only simvastatin that causes these problems. Ten days of half dose Lipitor (atorvastatin?) left me unable to walk more than 50 yds. The reason simvastatin has the worst reputation is that it was the first and is used the most as it is the cheapest having been out of patent for longest. The others aren't much better - just they aren't used as much to acquire their bad reputation.

      Plus - and this is the worst aspect of it all: if a patient has a bad reaction to a drug it is to be reported using the yellow card system. That can be by the doctor, the pharmacist or the patient themselves. However, the doctors say "Oh it's a known side effect, doesn't need to be reported" and patients don't know they can do it.

      As a result, only a tiny proportion of such events are reported and recorded - so that the apparent rate of side effects is far lower than the actual rate. It is thought that only about 5% of adverse events are reported - making a mockery of the figures they quote us about how safe statins are. 

    • Posted

      My GP takes simvastatin and runs marathons!

      A professor prescribed Rosuvastatin for me. It gave me muscle pains in the legs. I stopped it for a while and the pains went. Started it again and thry came back so now I refuse them.

      Last week the Daily Mail doctor told a reader:

      "I am also not convinced statins are to blame. You tell me you are taking a type of statin called simvastatin. As many are aware, statins can cause unpleasant muscle sensations, such as stiffness and tenderness, for reasons still unknown.

      However this affects all muscles in the body - not just muscles in the legs, as in your case."

       

    • Posted

      Which just shows how we are all different doesn't it - but the docs tend to forget that! 

      There is a hospital in Canada (I think, Vancouver - if it isn't it is in Seattle in the US) which has simvastatin on its drugs black list - no one is allowed to prescribe it. Even the manufacturers admit in their info that it has been known to trigger polymyalgia rheumatica and it is listed under adverse events - have a gander at the forum on here. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy having had it for 10 years! I wasn't on statins at the time though.

      I have read that doctor's "advice" in the People's Medical Journal in the past and been amazed at his blanket statements some of which were so out of date it wasn't true. 

      It is thought it causes muscle problems of various sorts in more like half of patients than the few they claim. The cholesterol story is far more than "high cholesterol bad", "low cholesterol good" and low fat diets have caused more problems than they have solved - except for the manufacturers of low fat products. If statins prevent heart problems (and they may well do) it isn't because of reducing cholesterol levels. 

    • Posted

      And don't for get ...the heart is a muscle...I took them for years different types.....with atoravistatin I couldn't hold a newspaper...the last was simvastatin....felt really ill could not walk upstairs...when I reported this to my gp...he sent me for blood tests.....which came back ...normal...he told me not to worry as I would soon feel better....and so I did.....I imediately stopped the statins...and although my cholesterol went up ..I told him never again would I take another one.....oh ..and about a year before that I was told I had type 2 diabetes....I've never been on medication for my diabetes....and since stopping the statins....my blood sugar levels have been fine...
  • Posted

    Update. I saw my doctor yesterday following a blood test. She asked if I had been taking the statin she had almost insisted on prescribing despite my objections and a sheaf or research papers I gave her pointing out the dangers. I said I had not taken the atorvastatin. She said she could give me a different tab but I said I had read so much research on these things that I didn't want to take any of them.

    She said my readings had gone up from 7.3 to 7.4 but eventually removed statins from my prescription. I was speaking with another medical professional at the practice about this and she said that she wouldn't take them either!!

    BTW, I did take Benecol for several weeks in an effort to please the doctor with lower levels ( coward that I am ) but it does not seem to have worked in my case.

    • Posted

      People who have been taking it for years complained that its taste suddenly changed about two years ago.
  • Posted

    No studies exist which demonstrate that stanols and sterols actually improve health, and this fact has not escaped the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE), which actually advises against the use of stanols and sterols.

    The fact is, no published studies have tested the impact of stanols or sterols on human health in the long term. One may argue that this is not an issue because we know that cholesterol reduction is beneficial and, so the benefits are almost assured and, anyway, what harm can they do?

    Well, the evidence shows that when we take dietary steps to reduce cholesterol through reducing fat in the diet or substituting saturated fat for ‘healthier’ fats, it does not reduce the risk of heart attack or stroke or overall risk of death. This, obviously, casts some doubt on the validity of the assumption that dietary reduction of cholesterol is necessarily a good thing.

    The other issue though concerns safety. How do we know if we do not have the long-term studies of the use of stanols and sterols in humans that are even safe? Again, one may argue what’s the harm, seeing as they’re ‘plant-derived’. Well, it turns out there is quite a body of evidence which suggests far from being the wonder-chemicals we’ve been lead to believe them to be, stanols and sterols may pose real and significant risks to health.

    The research was summarized in a 2009 paper published in the European Heart Journal.

    Several studies link the presence of higher levels of sterols in the blood stream with raised risk of cardiovascular disease. This evidence is epidemiological, which means we cannot conclude from it that sterols actually increase the risk of cardiovascular disease (only that the two are associated with each other). However, more incriminating evidence comes of studies in which the effects of sterols have been tested on tissues or animals in the lab.

    In one study, feeding animals with sterols increased what is known as ‘endothelial dysfunction’ – unhealthy changes on the inside of blood vessels associated increased cardiovascular disease risk. The sterols also led to animals having strokes bigger in size than when no sterols were consumed.

    In another study, sterols led to an increased level of damaging oxidation and release of free oxygen radicals (oxidative stress) compared to cholesterol, which suggests a greater capacity to induce chronic disease (including cardiovascular disease). Sterols have also been shown to induce cell death (what is known as ‘apoptosis’), including in the cells which line human blood vessels (endothelial cells). In another experiment, giving plant sterols to rats (with high blood pressure and prone to stroke) shortened their life spans.

    In summary, there is no evidence that stanols and sterols benefit human health, and quite a few lines of evidence that suggest these substances have potential for harm. Yet, this is the stuff that is marketed on the basis of their assumed value for heart health.

    • Posted

      An active hill walking friend has been taking Pro-Activ for years and it has not reduced his cholesterol readings. He has tried most of statins and all resulted in muscle pain.
  • Posted

    References:

    1. Weingartner O, et al Controversial role of plant sterol esters in the management of hypercholesterolaemia. Europlean Heart Journal 2009;30:404-409

    2. Relationships of serum plant sterols (phytosterols) and cholesterol in 595 hypercholesterolemic subjects, and familial aggregation of phytosterols, cholesterol, and premature coronary heart disease in hyperphytosterolemic probands and their first-degree relatives. Metabolism 1991;40:842–848

    3. Independent association of serum squalene and noncholesterol sterols with coronary artery disease in postmenopausal women. J Am Coll Cardiol 2000;35:1185–1191

    4. Association of plasma noncholesterol sterol levels with severity of coronary heart disease. Nutr Metab Cardiovasc Dis 1998;8:386–391

    5. Baseline serum cholestanol as predictor of recurrent coronary events in subgroup of Scandinavian simvastatin survival study. Finnish 4S Investigators. BMJ 1998;316:1127–1130

    6. Plasma sitosterol elevations are associated with an increased incidence of coronary events in men: results of a nested case-control analysis of the Prospective Cardiovascular Munster (PROCAM) study. Nutr Metab Cardiovasc Dis 2006;16:13–21

    7. Abstract 4099: elevated campesterol serum levels–a significant predictor of incident myocardial infarction: results of the population-based MONICA/KORA follow-up study 1994–2005. Circulation 2006;114:II_884

    8. Vascular effects of diet supplementation with plant sterols. J Am Coll Cardiol 2008;51:1553–1561

    9. Oxidized plant sterols in human serum and lipid infusions as measured by combined gas-liquid chromatography-mass spectrometry. J Lipid Res 2001;42:2030–2038

    10. Beneficial or harmful influence of phytosterols on human cells? Br J Nutr 2008;100:1183–1191

    11. Vegetable oils high in phytosterols make erythrocytes less deformable and shorten the life span of stroke-prone spontaneously hypertensive rats. J Nutr 2000;130:1166–1178

    • Posted

      Crikey!! Thanks for this.

      I Only took Benecol to try to lower the levels without statins but have now stopped. Latest research tells us that saturated fat is not to demon we were told it was for years.

      Sugar is now the killer!!

      So they say!!

       

    • Posted

      There has even been a rethink on salt.....by some:-)

       

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