REZUM--HAVE YOU HAD THIS DONE???????

Good evening Alan,  Before you had the Rezum did you research it.  The last few on here over the last 6 month's did not work for the guy's.  All it did is give them retro.  I hope you do better.  They do say it take up to 3 month's to see if it works.  I wish you luck and try to take it easy..  Ken 

Ken,

       I feel that I need to step in here for the benefit of those who are researching Rezum and have come to this site to see what experiences others have had. 

       You seem to be very concerned about RE (retrograde ejaculation) because a few of the men who have 'talked' on this site have had that happen to them. It is very unfortunate for those guys, and I'm hopeful that they will eventually get some of a normal ejaculation back. However, I really do believe that the vast majority of the men who have been treated by the Rezum procedure have had a positive outcome, and that very few of those successful procedures have been recounted here on this site. As you noted, several guys who have experienced problems have shared their experiences here on this site. If someone who was contemplating his options were to read only those experiences, and your  comments about the possibility of RE, they might well conclude that they would have the same chances of getting RE with Rezum as with say a TURP. That would do them a huge disservice. Rezum is, when properly qualified ahead of time and properly done, is far and way the best procedure for many, if not most, men suffering from BPH symptoms.

Ken

 

"Rezum is, when properly qualified ahead of time and properly done, is far and way the best procedure for many, if not most, men suffering from BPH symptoms."

Have you researched PAE? No retro. No hospital stay, not catheter, no blood. A very easy procedure with minimal side effects. Followup IPSS scores show that it's effectiveness is about equal to any of the standard procedures. 

The various BPH procedures all reduce the prostate size (except Urolift), and there is a certain group of men who don't get relief from any of them due to bladder issues. 

I have been reading the REZUM posts from the beginning, and it certainly does work, but it does have side effects that should be understood and taken into account.

Due to the lack of post operative side effects I would rather have a PAE as a first treatment procedure before considering anything else. If the PAE either doesn't work or doesn't work well enough then I would think about a second PAE or another form of treatment. Since PAEs are NOT performed by urologists it is not something that they normally recommend. Why would they? A PAE is performed by an interventional radiologist. 

I had a PAE last year - it was a very easy and pleasant experience, the post operative side effects were minimal. 

Tom

Good evening Ken.  Thank you for stepping in so you say.  There are a lot of men on here that look to these site to get some idea of what will happen after they have a procedure.  Any procedure.  Some doctor give you 5 minutes when they explain a procedure.  They buy pass or over look a lot of these things that we would like to ask.  It's to late to ask when you are being taking in for surgery. And then when you have it and the procedure does not work and you complain it very hard to get in to see that doctor.   Most doctors do not want to deal with failed procedures.  Even men has the right to have what ever procedure he wants but he need to know what may happen.  My urologist and his partner were going to do the Rezum procedure but after they look more into it it was not for them.  The Rezum does to much damage to the inside shell of the prostate.  The steam fry's the inside and it will destroy any tissue it come in contact with that is why the retro is higher then what doctors are telling there patients.  And I do agree with you on one point .  Any procedure can work if you find the right doctor but how do you know.  It is to late after it is done.  I have a very good Urologist. I trust him to tell me what is going on but it is my option if I want to take it.  I also have been in contact with many doctor.  One is the inventor of the Urolift, A Dr. Muir from the UK .  He does laser.  He also wrote a book with some of his friends that said that any procedure that you have  can be done in way you don't have to end up with retro even a Turp if the doctor takes his time. But most just what to get in and out and move on to the next.  Dr K. is a very nice man  He has giving me a lot of answer.  I have talked on the phone or by e-mail. With all of them.  Information is the key and every man deserve's to know the good and bad of every procedure.  When a man has BPH he has a lot to think about not only being able to pee. But any side effect he will have to deal with for the rest of his life and not just him his family also.  Life is to short to give up on anything.  Every man picks the procedure he want to try and I just hope they picks the right one for him. Also remember we have had good and bad out comes on all the procedure.  I hate to see something go wrong.  Take care.  Ken      

Good evening Tom  Glad your PAE worked for you.  My Urolift worked for me.  There are men that have had many of the others procedures to and they worked for them But men need all the information then can get on any procedure they are going to have.  There are to many doctors out there that don't give the time or the information that the men need.  If they did we would not need theses sites.  Take care and enjoy your life  Ken 

I don’t think PAE is performed at a lot of centers.

I also don’t think a lot of insurances cover it, and I don’t think Medicare does.

Most men can not afford to pay out hundreds, let alone thousands (maybe tens of thousands?) for a procedure

Medicare definitely covered PAE for me, and when I researched it two years ago there were many places in the US that offered it. And the cash cost quoted at the two most prominent centers was in the 6 to 8 thousand range.

 

That's a lot of money. For many of my patients, that would be a substantial part of their savings and could potentially bankrupt them.

Most of my patients will have minimal out of pocket costs for Urolift, Rezum, Aquablation, or button TURP. PAE would be a hard sell.

Tom,

       Thanks for your comments about PAE. I don't know much about PAE, but it seems that it, like most of the treatment choices, may be effective for some men, but perhaps not for all. I personally ruled it out because my prostate was enlarged to the point that it was causing retention and I had to self-catheterize every day. I needed something that would be effective quickly. And I certainly didn't want to go the route of a TURP style of procedure.

Fortunately Rezum turned out to be a near miracle for me. Within just a few days my urination was turned back a couple of years, and after a couple of weeks, it was near normal. And all of that with almost zero pain. 

Yes, my procedure was very easy and effective. But from my understanding in talking to a couple of very experienced urologists, that is the norm for Rezum. 

Ken,

     Well said. Thanks for your thoughtful response. I agree that anyone contemplating a procedure for BPH should move slowly and carefully and proceed only after a lot of research. My original urologist only does bipolar TURPs, so of course that is what he offered to me as a solution. I am so thankful that I was able to say 'no thanks' because I knew that waiting for a better solution was an option too.

Ken

That make total sense. The same thing, of course, could be said for any procedure for the many men without any insurance. My suggestion for men with insurance or Medicare would be to determine before having any procedure whether it will be covered. A quick google of whether PAE is covered by Medicare came back with mixed results. As I said in the previous post, mine was covered.

Setting aside cost issues, IMO PAE certainly seems to be the least invasive and having the least possible detrimental bad outcomes of all the BPH procedures currently offered.

 

My urologist has gone from recommending microwaving to Urolift to Rezum. Microwave is just not an option as far as I'm concerned. I've read many horror stories about Rezum. Urolift seems to be the safest and easiest. I scheduled one with a different urologist then cancelled it. I'm just not mentally ready. I've had friends with laser who loved it. I don't want to be one of the 2% or whatever the number is that has issues for days, weeks and months. I hate the meds which cause ED but I pee pretty good, no major urgency and sleep through the night most nights. I have kidney stones which is an additional problem. Prostate cancer runs in my family so eventually something must be done. Right now PSA is 2.1.

very confused.

My understanding from here is that PAE is sometimes covered depending on the specifics of the diagnosis.

Jim

What are the meds that cause you ED ? Can you overcome with Viagra or the likes ? Yeah, tough decisions to make. Hank

"IMO PAE certainly seems to be the least invasive and having the least possible detrimental bad outcomes of all the BPH procedures currently offered."

Rich, 

That is exactly whey I decided to move forward with my PAE last year. The actual prostate is not heated, cut or touched in any way. The blood supply is reduced and over time the prostate shrinks. 

My PAE was covered under my Kaiser Medicare Advantage insurance, and all I had to pay was a copay for the imaging. I did have to drive to Oakland, CA and stay overnight in a hotel before the procedure. My wife drove me home the next afternoon, so there was very little "downtime", no bleeding, no post operative pain, no overnight hospital stay. The side effects were relatively minor - some burning sensation for a few days while urinating and I had to increase my Flowmax and take some Tylenol and Ibuprofen. After a week I was back to where I was before the operation, and a couple of weeks later completely went off the Flowmax. 

According to my uro, my current symptoms (urgency, frequency, nocturia) are being caused by the bladder, not the prostate. 

As I have said before, there are many considerations when considering any BPH procedure: is it covered by insurance, how far away would I have to go to get it done, what are the side effects, how quickly would I be able to resume my normal activities, and, what are the normal side effects (retro is a consideration for many), and how fast will I notice improvement?

In my case, after long and careful consideration of all available procedures, I decided on the PAE. It is repeatable. If I want to try some other procedure at a later time (to improve my urgency/frequency issues) I can always do that. 

One downside to the PAE is that it takes time for results to show up. I was told that I would notice the bulk of the improvement in a month, and that the prostate would continue to shrink for up to six months. It's now been eight months. My urologist says, after scoping me, that my prostate is no longer restricting my urine flow, but the flow is still much slower than I would like, so I am now working with the PT nurse and am undergoing PTNS (Percutaneous tibial nerve stimulation) to calm down the overactive bladder symptoms. Depending on the success, or lack thereof, of the PT and PTNS I may request additional imaging and would consider a second PAE. If a second PAE doesn't solve my issues, then I would consider a more aggressive treatment. My uro says that any of the aggressive procedures can have lasting negative effects, and he would rather I try to solve my issues with the non-invasive treatments I have just mentioned - a prudent recommendation. 

What I have learned from all of this is that the prostate/urethra/bladder is a complicated and delicate linked system. and I decided to go with the treatment that had the highest effectiveness/side effects ratio. Other procedures might be more effective and/or work faster, but the side effects and downtime must be considered. 

Many on this forum have been very happy with all of the various treatments, but some have later regretted what they did, so this is something worth a lot of research, which is why we are all here.

Tom

Viagra works but I still have retro ejaculations.

It's a complicated decision and they all have drawbacks. I'm leaning towards Urolift because it's not invasive, fast results, no sexual issues and I can do another procedure like laser if it doesn't work. Haven't made an appointment yet, still thinking.

What kind of physical therapy exercises are you doing?  I'm doing a lot to strengthen the transversus abdominis.

PT has me doing stretching, breathing. Gave me a handout with pictures. Hasn't been working so far, but I am doing exercises every morning. 

No problem.  I hope all goes well for you.  My urologist does not do many Turps.  He said that is a last resort. Him and his partner only did 3 last year.  They always start with the less evasive first. There are many to pick for now.  I'm happy that I am in 2018.  Not the 50's and 60's Take care Ken  

First of all relax and breath If everything is going ok just take your time but do not let your fears or your problem dictate what procedure you want to have.  Just because prostate cancer runs in your family does not mean that you are going to get it.  Just relax and enjoy life.  Ken

If you are still on the other meds you will still have retro.  I was on Flomax and Rapaflo before I had my Urolift.  Had retro with both pills.  I stopped when I had the urolift.  No problem.  Took about 2 weeks to go back to normal.  Ken

Thanks, I'm obvious a nervous wreck.

how long did you have a catheter?

2 weeks isn't terrible to get back to normal.

I celebrated New Years Eve crawling on the floor in pain passing kidney stones this year.  That was the wake-up call to me about my bad BPH.  When they put the Foley in me, they drained about 2 liters of pee out of my bladder and i lost over 4 pounds.  The last few months and next few months are all about self-cathing and bladder recovery before any surgery is even discussed.  The urologist had me do several tests and imaging to check the health of my kidneys.  So with BPH and kidney stones has your urologist had you do tests and imaging for your kidneys too?  

Sorry it's so late but was watching my grand kids.  I had a catheter for 2 days.  I had it done at 1 pm on a Monday and it came out on Wednesday at 8 am.  There going to put in about 250 cc of fluid to make sure you pee. < this was my first time with a catheter >  Take a male pad with you just in case they hold a lot..  I was ready for anything.  You may need it or not with driving home.  You will be ok just do what the doctor tells you.  If you have any question just ask  Ken   

How long did you have pain.

does catheter hurt much? How about coming out?

Oldyank,

I had 6 Foley catheters put in and taken out over a period of 5 weeks after radiation for prostate cancer. I learned how to make the Foley's comfortable. What you want to avoid is any tugging or excessive motion, so you tape the drain tube to your leg, and pad the tube in your underwear where it inserts into your penis so it is lying sideways - also reduces tugging and motion. You keep that part constantly lubricated with Neosporin so it's slippery and sterile. These simple techniques make wearing a Foley very easy. You can take it out yourself. The Foley stays in the bladder with a little balloon tip that has fluid. Your nurse can give you a little plastic syringe to drain out the liquid, then nothing is holding the tube in your bladder. Go into a shower and run warm water over your lower abdomen and the tube will just slide out. Very simple and easy. No worries. 

Tom

What Tom is telling you is true.  At that time I did not have any problem with the catheter.  Do make sure you put some neosporin or a water base lube at the tip of the catheter it will help.  All ways make sure your leg bag is empty so it does not pull.  How long did the doctor tell you that you will have it in.  Should not be long just a few days.  I don't care for them but I would rather have them put in when I'm out then when I am awake.  Last November I have a very bad infection cause by my external sphincter It was to tight  They try 7 times all was very pain full.  I could have jump off that bed.  Even had the nurse in tears.  It's better coming out.  You will just feel relieved.  Take care  Ken    

The doctor told me just one day, one doctor said no days. They say it's better to have but they do lie.

Agree with you.  I think kenneth1955 has the best of intentions.  That said we, who have this condition, simply cannot make a contest out of which therapeutic treatment is best, nor can we make it a contest of one-upmanship.  Instead, this should be an information forum.  I consider myself to be one of the most fortunate guys on the entire planet.  With whom do I commiserate?  Those men who didn't necessarily choose the "wrong" procedure (truth be told - I think all procedures have their pros and cons), but whose outcomes were less than optimal.  Could happen to any of us.  Let's face it.  We reach a point in life where our suffering is unbearable.  While we'd like to have a guarantee in spades, there is an inevitable element of risk.

Most of the time they do not use catheters with the Urolift.  It is up to the doctor.  I ask my doctor for one because I have a problem peeing on demand.  And with any procedure they want you to pee after so you can go home.  And if you can't they put one in anyway.  Before I had mine there were some men that had the urolift that could not pee when they got home so they ended up at the hospital.  It was much better for me.  Ken

Hi Alan, I agree with. There always is an element of risk on any procedures.CIC  i have been doing this for 18 months.What concerns me at 88 years old is what do i do i if i'm not able to CIC? ER I guess. 

My Uro tells me  there is a 50 % chance of being incontinent for ever with any procedure.CIC sounds better than that? What do you think ?

frank,

My doctor said he always uses a catheter with urolift for 1 day to ease pain in peeing. Said results have been great that way.

That's good  With any procedure the prostate is inflamed so it needs a few days to relax  Ken

I think I agree with you, frank74205.  As far as I can tell, CIC is the absolute best route to go.  You asked what you would do if you're not able to CIC.  The only circumstances I can envision for such a scenario is that your prostatic urethra has become too constricted to allow the passage of the catheter itself.  And as I understand it, those circumstances are extremely rare.  Personally speaking, I definitely think you're doing the right thing.  The only reason I didn't try CIC is because I think it's a nuisance.  No disrespect intended.  That said, CIC is definitely the safest.  I had the Rezum simply because the data are out, and they're lookin' pretty good.  Then again, who can say for sure?

Hi alan1951,

You wrote: "I had the Rezum simply because the data are out, and they're lookin' pretty good."

I did a comprehensive Internet search for data on Rezum.  What I found was limited but as you said "lookin' pretty good."  The 3-year post-surgery period of record on patients that have had the procedure did not bother me because in 3 years, a better technology may be available.

So what was your source of information on Rezum?

If I do need surgery, at this time, I am leaning towards Rezum.  For the time being, I am doing CIC which while being inconvenient is really not that bad and it is giving my bladder some time to recover.

Steve 

I believe no chance of incontinence with PAE.

@Alan: That said we, who have this condition, simply cannot make a contest out of which therapeutic treatment is best, nor can we make it a contest of one-upmanship. 

----------------------------------------------

Good point. In part it's called confirmation bias, which is the human tendency to confirm their own decisions and/or criticize alternate decisions. I've seen it here with all the procedures. Confirmation bias is also at work when your doctor recommends a procedure he does and/or criticizes a procedure he doesn't do.

The anecdote is to try and read as much as you can from as many sources as you can and keep especially on guard when someone tells you that their procedure is absolutely the best. Truth is (here's my confirmation bias coming up -- there is not best procedure right now, just different procedures that all have their pros and cons. If there was a great procedure out with great results and no risks, I'd have it. But until then I will continue to self cath!

Jim

Thank You Jim for that priceless info.

frank,

Jim I believei have an overactive bladder. I'm doing CIC 8,9 and sometimes 10 times a day. My Uro said this could be overactive bladder,but says i'm to old for this medicine ,it has too many side effects.

He does not do Percutaneous Tiberal Nerve Stimulation. Do you know anyone who had this done? it;s supposed calm the over active bladder. Do you have any info on this?

Thanks 

frank,

Jersey doc, My Uro tells me if i have surgery Turp or laser ,or any procedure there all the same ,i could possibly be incontinent forever there is a 50 % chance.What is your opinion on this? 

I failed urodynamics test, had 2 cystoscopy's ,1 year a part, both different. Whats your opinion on this?

at 88 years old . I'm doing CIC. Do you do all the procedures? What would you recommend?

thanks 

frank,

 

Jimjames what’s a good source of info re self cath?  Never done it and really dread idea of Foley even more than Rezum procedure in not too distant future. Dr/nurse don’t know all the tricks involved for pain free self cath. Thanks for any info.  

Jimjames what’s a good source of info re self cath?  Never done it and really dread idea of Foley even more than Rezum procedure in not too distant future. Dr/nurse don’t know all the tricks involved for pain free self cath. Thanks for any info.  

Alan,Are ok with Rezum? Hope all went well for you? What were the side effects? When did you have this done?

Thanks 

Alan

Frank,

If you are doing CIC 8 or 9 times per day then this sounds like an overactive bladder. I have the same issue and am now undergoing the PTNS procedure. I have had four so far. Don't really notice much difference, although I seem to be able to sleep in slightly longer stretches at night - instead of getting up every hour and a half I can last two hours. The therapist told me most people notice some change after the sixth treatment. There are twelve in all, so I am a long way from being finished. The actual treatment itself is very easy and painless - I hardly know anything is happening. I just read for 30 minutes. 

Tom

Frank,

How much are you cathing each time? Have you done a void log recording the time and amount of each catherized and natural void That would help confirm overactive bladder. I've heard of nerve stimulation but don't know much about it. If you have OAB, I'd try bladder retraining and pelvic floor exercises first.

Jim

Haven't really found a good one-stop source but you could check out the self cath threads here or ask some questions. But in short, start with a good slippery catheter like Coloplast's Speedicath. A good starter size is FR14. If you have an enlarged prostate try the Coude model. The idea is to set your daily cath frequency so that your bladder isn't holding more than 400ml at any one time. That would be the sum of each catherized volume and the natural void just preceding it. I'd also recommend prophlactive antibiotics for the first few days just like you would take them if you had a cystoscopy.

Jim

My PAE was also covered by MEDICARE.

NEAL

What Medicare plan do you have ? Hank

jimjames,

Very well said!  If there was a perfect procedure out there, then there would not be competing procedures at this time.  All procedures have their pluses and minuses.  We are all outliving our prostates, which should have served their purpose a long time ago and we should all be dead by now from something else

Steve 

He may mean that your bladder may not have the ability to empty even after a procedure (any procedure.)

The risk of incontinence inherently is generally very low from any of the procedures you mentioned

Hello steve05114!  You're correct on so many levels.  First of all, if you want to do CIC for another three years, why not?  You're buying time.  Smart.  Speaking of smart, you'll want to talk to jimjames about CIC - one of the smartest guys on this site.  I've heard many men echo your sentiments; that CIC "is really not that bad." 

You asked for my information source on Rezum.  I'm working of my experiences with Rezum, and I plan on posting them within the next two weeks.  If I post the source / link, I'll get the boot.  Remember steve05114.  There is no one right procedure.

Hello frank74205!  I'm definitely okay with Rezum, and things did go well for me.   As for the side effects, it's too soon to tell, as I am writing this on 25 April 2018, and I had the procedure on 19 April 2018.  About the only side effect I'm having right now is minor bladder spasms.  Removed a Foley catheter 18 hours ago so they were to be expected.  I'm working on the sum total of my experiences, and plan on posting them in two weeks.  Hope this helps.

From what you've written, something like Rezum, PAE or FLA are your best shot at getting off the catheter, if in fact, you have a significant blockage caused by your prostate. If so, it may work, it may not, or after some time doing cic without the blockage, your bladder might rehab enough to get you mostly or completely off of CIC.

The results of the cystoscopy are critical here. Incontinence is almost non existent after Rezum and I think also for the other two procedure's I mentioned. I would avoid TURP and any laser as many problems can occur and the risks are probably higher due to your age and condition.

Hi OB, Have you heard of anyone on this forum who had Rezum and it didn't work ,but they cut down on amount of times a day they do CIC/

frank,

Alan, Sounds great ,i hope all goes well with you. I'm thinking of  doing the same thing ,Rezum.

Was there much pain?

thanks 

frank,

 

Frank - not that I remember. There have been a few people it didn't work for at all. The main issue if you're looking to cut down on or not have to do CIC is how much of your problem is an enlarged prostate. If the obstruction is big enough, even CIC won't allow the bladder to rehab. If you have a significant obstruction caused by BPH and you're doing CIC, Rezum could help a lot. Or some, or not at all - depending on the condition of your bladder and whether it can be rehabbed.  It could be that until you remove the obstruction, your bladder can't rehab enough via CIC. Others like jimjames have BPH, but made significant strides without any procedure, just with CIC.

If you have a diagnosed and significantly enlarged prostate and want to try to get off the cath, Rezum is probably worth a shot. The worst thing that happens is nothing - you're never able to do a natural void - which is where you are now. You're already full time CIC, so other than some pain for 60 intermittent seconds and some blood in your urine, recovery will be a snap. You'll either start voiding on your own (probably little bits on and off at first) or you won't If your bladder needs significant rehab, it could take a year.

OB, Thanks for that info. The next thing is to find a Urologist that is not a rookie? How to find one who has done 100 or more Rezume's? They all tell you they have done a hundred or more.Would you know how to find out if the Urologist is not a Rookie doing Rezum?

THANKS OB

frank,

 

I think for the most part, you can trust a doctor if they tell you how many they've done. But one way to confirm, is ask (before you ask how many they've done) when they got the machine, if they track results (if so ask for specifics, how many people in the database ect.). Any doc who has had them machine for a year or more has probably done at least 100.

If you live near a large hospital, you might start there. Reading a doc's bio can tell you a lot - where they studied, trained, how long, ect. 

Hi OB, I don;t think think reading a doc'c bio can tell me how many Rezume's he has done? Ask when they got the rezume machine ,and how many people are in your database,then ask how many has he done sounds like  a good approach.OB did you have Rezume done ?

Thanks ,

frank,

Hi Hank,

I have plain old U.S. MEDICARE and TRICARE For Life, as I retired from the U.S. Air Force.

Neal Pros

Tom86211,

There is some anecdotal evidence from posts on this site that PAE does not work well for someone with an enlarged median lobe.  I have an enlarged median lobe and the PAE I had done in 2014 did not work for me.  It looks like the best minimally invasive procedures for Median lobe are Rezum and FLA.

Thomas

Yes Thomas  , you are another man  in row , where  PAE failed  in case of big median  lobe. There  will be usefull to collect these data.   I  collect just data for  FLA patients  in  Excell table, Stan . 

Is really neccessary  to do  PAE  results research . There are surely many 1000's PAE procedure  patients.  As my  PAE  Dr ,said last  year  there is about  80 %  rate of PAE success . What about more detailed analysis of this rest 20 % ?    Good morning  Scientific and Medical community, stil sleeping ? Stan

FWIW, I think the success rate with Rezum is higher than that. Probably because you can direct the steam to any spot causing a blockage, including a median lobe. And some people probably get all of these procedures when other issues are the main cause of their problems and they have been included in the stats as failures when it wasn't the procedure that fail, but the doc and their diagnosis. So PAE is probably well into the 80s and Rezum in the 90s

Hi Jim, I haven't been on this forum for a while. I caught a vary unusual infection C-diff  it's  awful. I lost 15 pounds diarrhea ,won't stop,i have taken Vancamycin 40 pill and now perhaps another round ,48 more this tiime. I was told this was caused by taking another antibiotic. I had a tooth  abcess,and was given clyndamycin. It's a merry go round. I'm sure grateful to you for teaching me how to CIC

THANKS JIM

frank,

Frank sorry for what happen to you but I am glad your ok.  There have been a few of us looking for you. Yes taking different king of antibiotic.  That same thing happen to me in 2014 was taking a antibiotic for a infection.  As you know it kills the good and the bad off.  I got food poisoning and had nothing to fight it off.  I did not know what end to put over the toilet first.  I ended up with sepsis.  The doctor told me another week I would have gone into kidney failure.  Was in the hospital for 6 days and left with a port in my arm for another 11 treatments.  I am so happy you are doing better I was worried about you.  So happy that your back on with us.  God help you get more better  Ken      

Frank,   Probiotics may help your situation.  You can get them from yogurt,  sauerkraut, keifer, or pills.  Try several types of pills to get a variety of helpful bacteria.  You might also look for pills that have a coating to prevent the good bacteria from being killed off by stomach acid, and delay the release of the good bacteria until the intestines.

Raw garlic crushed or chopped may be useful at killing the bad bacteria.  The garlic helps dissolve biofilms that some bacteria produce to protect themselves from the bodies defense system.  It can also make antibiotics more effective, by getting rid of the biofilms.  Of course run this by your doctor, to make sure its compatible with his treatment plan.

Hope this helps

Thomas

Ken I'm not that great yet I'm peeing, every 1.5 to 2.5hrs app. I peed that much before surgery. So Resume didn't help me at all. I still have to wear a depends. Just in case I don't make it to my bathroom. I still can't enjoy my life anymore. I can't go to bars. I'm afraid that if I have to wait for a restroom to clear I end up peeing my depends. And dependi g on which way my dick is laying. Sometimes I wet my shorts and have to go home. So my life SUCKS FOR NOW!!. I've had the worst of luck on surgerys. Pretty much every surgery threw out my life I've had problems with.

Hi Frank, Sorry you haven't been feeling well but glad to see you back. Assuming you were not overweight, now you've got to work on putting back those pounds gradually. If you were overweight, look at the weight loss as a silver lining. You're very wellcome regarding the CIC and glad it's kept you away from the knife while you're figuring out if a procedure makes sense for you or not. Did they tell you to take some sort of probiotics for the C-Diff? I'm not that well versed in it but you might ask your doctor.

Jim

I thought I read that a fecal transplant helps most people recover from a C-diff infection. 

Your right. They technique is to use fecal material from a close relative. There's something about using the relative's fecal material that makes it work well to recover from the Cdiff.

I had a bout with Cdiff around 15 years ago, but was given a different antibiotic as a treatment. The fecal transplant wasn't around then as a treatment.

Since then I've taken probiotics regularly just as a preventive thing. I definitely don't want to go through that again... 

Tom so sorry that your having a problem.  How long ago did you have it.  They do say it take 3 month's.  I know when I had my Urolift I used the pads the day they took my catheter out.  They really held a lot.  I will put you on my prayer list.  God bless  Ken

It will be 3 months this comming wed. Thanks ken.

Good morning  I am very sorry that you have not had a good out come.  After 3 month's you should have had some improvement.  What does the doctor say.  Are you sure it was your prostate and not a problem with your bladder.  I hope things get better for you  Ken 

My dr, says 3. MONTHS and I should see some improvement. Well this Monday will be the start of 3 months. Well I'm up to almost 3 hrs before I have to pee. My goal is to get to 5hrs. Maybe as another month goes by. It will get better.

Lest hope thing get better.  They do say it get's worse before it get better.  I don't know if this will help you but I am deal with prostatitis right now and a tight external sphincter.  I can pee most of the time but there are times that I pee in the morning and night time nothing so it 15 to 18 hours.  Before I go to bed.  I take a hot bath and that helps me.  I can pee as soon as I get out of the tub.  It may help  Who knows  Ken   

Thanks ken, I take a shower every night before bed. Doesn't help me. My Dr has me on oxybutin 10mg once a day. To slow my peeing down. It's only been 10 days .But hope it gets better.

Hey Tom   Had to look that up.  I did not know what that did.  Are you having any problem sleeping with taking this pill.  Lets hope all get's better.  Finger cross  Ken  

Is the flow rate better now - do you take any medications such as Flomax? If you had BPH for a long time you could have damaged the bladder, and assuming the procedure cleared the obstruction it might take a long time for the bladder to get back in to shape, maybe 6 months to a year - it also depends on general health and age. 3 hrs is not all that bad if you ask me talk to most people around 60 or older and they will say they have to get up a couple of times a night to pee. Another thing I was told, if you had BPH for many years the body kinds of gets used to peeing often, so it takes a while for it to go back to regular intervals like normal people.

Jersey Urology, I have been doing CIC over 2 years, Does doing CIC strengthen the bladder?I have an obstruction, at 89 years of age. Have you had any patients with this situation get back to a normal void?

thanks

frank,

Frank have you read the thread by JimJames about rehabbing the bladder through CIC ?

Don't mean to butt in... but if one has a obstruction, via a bladder neck, enlarged prostate or stricture of some kind... I can see how CIC can rehab a bladder, by reducing the amount of retained urine and reducing the "bladder stretch"... but "normal function" is out... until the obstruction is fixed... probably via a procedure... agree?

@Tucsonjj: I can see how CIC can rehab a bladder

Yes, but the big question for many of us who had stretched out bladders for a long time from a combination of BPH and AUR is how much recovery is possible. Even after the obstruction is removed, the bladder muscles may not be able to push the pee out all that well.

Unfortunately rehabbing the bladder muscles is not like how I was able to lift weights and pull on big rubber bands to rehab my shoulder muscles after dislocating my shoulder two times from skiing. I have been doing these exercises for over 20 years now.

Next Friday, I get a cystoscopy to see what both the urethra obstruction and the bladder wall look like. I am looking forward to what the urologist sees and says.

Tusc,

By the way I got some samples of Lofric catheters and tried them out. They work very well. Looks like "frickin" Lofric is the way to go. I had a preference for the Origo, but the Primo is not bad either. The lube on either one of them is very slippery. The price is low also.

Thomas

I never had to use caths. After my surgery. A matter a fact I'm the first patient that has had to have my Cath that was put in during surgery. Taken back out 5 hrs later.my Dr said I'm the first patient he's had in his entire career that hasn't had to have a Cath left in. I peed fine after they took it out. And haven't had a problem peeing at all . So I never had to use any caths.

Hi, Thomas, Frikin' right! LOL!!

Yep, I tried many... had high hopes for the Coloplast Speedicath, but that one was the hardest to get by resistance, both 14's and 16's... must be a weird tip on 'em...

Cure hydrophilic are very good too, just not quite as good as the LoFric.

I have been using LoFric Primo fr12's (I am fine with the Origo, just don't like the packaging as much, sometimes a hassle getting it out with sterilized hands and not touching the outside of the package) sometimes, if I am pretty full, I will leak little around the fr12's as they go in... doesn't bother me any, as I cath standing up over the Hillary (toilet)... but may do an order of LoFric Primo fr14's see if they are still easy to insert and have no leakage...

I tied a few Fr8's red rubber and a Cure non-lubed... VERY comfy, but I like the hydrophilic better... and the 8's take forever to drain...

JJ

CIC will prevent further damage to the bladder if done regularly. prevent trabeculation of the bladder

Hi, Steven,

Yes, I have had the same thoughts... my pee problems are long term... the worst times in my mid-20's to my mid 30's... Hytrin 5 mg helped me for years... but I should have been on CIC long ago (just started a month or two ago, I'm 62)... I never had it suggested for some reason (incompetent Docs), and I didn't know it didn't hurt... I thought it would be like a cystoscopy, which can sting if no numbing first...

I am considering a UroLift... my UroDoc is very good and he dislikes the Rezum and the Green Light (I know he is very skilled as he can do the HoLep, most can't)... BUT... since I feel no urge to pee unless I have at least 400-500ml in the bladder... I am thinking once the "obstruction" is relieved... I may still have way too much residual urine most of the time after peeing on my own...

So... I would have to CIC often anyway... so... why bother having the obstruction removed if I will not be able to pee normally and have very little residual?

BTW: make sure your UroDoc shoots some lidocaine up your Johnson and waits 5 minutes before your cystoscopy... most do, but some still don't! OUCH!! I take a pain pill at least 30 minutes prior too... not HUGE pain, but why suffer at all? GL to you!

JJ

JJ, did your urologist say why he didn't like the Rezum? If he's like many, they don't like what they don't do, regardless of the actual differences. You mentioned HoLep, but when I did some quick research on it, I saw that they only compared it to TURP. It's pretty easy to be better than TURP. The site that I read said that the hospitalization is shorter and that you only have to take it easy for a few weeks. When you compare it to Rezum and Urolift (for examples), there is no hospitalization required for those procedures. And after my Rezum procedure, I went back to normal activities (except for bicycle riding) immediately. Yes, Rezum does require a few days of catheterization, but if you're already doing CIC, that eliminates the need for a Foley catheter afterwards. I had been doing CIC for several months prior to the procedure, and I self-cathed within an hour after the Rezum procedure. No pain at all. There was some blood in the urine for a couple of days, and there was some minor urgency for about a week.

Ken - did Rezum work for you?

didn't didn't really work for me. I'd say 20% Improvement 2 months after

Tucsonjj,

Your comment "standing up over the Hillary (toilet)..."

I'm still laughing, love that one. I will steal it and use it in the future.

Allen

I wonder if you can still do a "Urolift" after a Rezum? IF not... and it really gets bad, you might consider a HoLep... you will have retro ejac... but might be worth it...??

I don't remember all the specifics... but he said it was lots of pain, slow recovery, inconsistent final results. Lots of guys here have had poor results from the Rezum... I agree with my UroDoc that the Urolift seems to be the best first step procedure... why destroy any prostate tissue unless really necessary? I see hardly any bad results from a UroLift here...

The HoLep is very complex, and most UroDocs are not capable of doing it... so it is not as popular... mine does, and I have a lot of respect for a Doc that took the time to train on it... and is regarded as expert in it... I have read that if serious prostate issues are present, not just enlargement... AND the patient can live with retro-ejac... HoLep is the best by far. Much better than the TURP, much better recovery time, excellent results and projected to be the ONLY procedure needed... no additional in 3-7 years, like with almost all others...

My old UroDoc only did the TURP or Green Light... so I dumped him... I suggest that anyone considering a Rezum or Green light... contact a UroDoc that does the HoLep and get a second opinion as to what they consider the best procedure for YOU. May well be, like in my case, the HoLep is not recommended, yet... To me... it is like getting cardiac advice from a General Practitioner... vs getting advice from a top level heart surgeon... many "one trick pony" UroDocs out there... go to the best, and most talented... if at all possible... just IMHO!

Good afternoon

That is one I may ask my Urologist. It would depend on how much damage was done to the prostate. Most of the time it causes scare tissue and to get rid of that I know of 5 men that ended up having Turp surgery because of all the problems

Later .Ken

I agree that it seems that there have been several guys on here who have not had optimal results with Rezum. However, you have to keep in mind that there have been thousands of Rezum procedures and the vast majority (according to my urologist who has been involved with the Rezum procedure since it started) work very well. He said, and the controlled test results agree, that most Rezum patients are very satisfied with the results. It's been almost a year since the 3 year study results were published, and those results are also overwhelmingly positive. If I sound like a 'salesman' for the procedure, it's because I did a lot of research before I chose Rezum, and my experience and results have been nothing short of excellent.

Rezum worked perfectly for me. I had already done a lot of research on the procedure, so I was confident that it was a good sound approach to reducing the size of the prostate. I would have considered Urolift but I had an enlarged median lobe and Rezum was ideally suited for that. Also, I like the idea that the Rezum actually reduces the size of the prostate, rather than just pulling it away from the urethra. And compared to some of the other procedures such as GL, TURP, etc., the urethra itself is intact after the procedure, rather than being partially cut away. Of course having an almost zero risk of ED, incontinence and RE was part of the equation too. I am now 10 months post-Rezum and doing well.

Tucsonjj@: BUT... since I feel no urge to pee unless I have at least 400-500ml in the bladder

Hi Tucsonjj,

I am 62 also. I had the Foley put in on January 15, then removed 3 1/2 weeks later which is when I self-cathing and I have been doing it ever since about 4 or 5 times per day. My average volumes is about 280 ml. About every 10 days or so, I go over 400 .

I got my 1st urge to pee on April 14 and that continues to now, with urges starting at about 200 ml, and strong urges at over 270. When my urges are over 370, I need to pee real bad.

If you are have no urge until 400-500 ml, that is not good. How many times a day do you self-cath and what are your volumes? From what you are saying, it sounds like bladder rehab is still a problem. Surgery may or may not work but it can be tried.

When the family-member-MD and I researched the various options, we dismissed Urolift for a few reasons, the 2 big ones being how the implants would hold up at my level of athletic activity, and if the Urolift does not work being stuck with implants.

No procedure is perfect, they all have their pluses and minuses. The family-member-MD says that urologists will push for the procedure that they do. If you are seeing a urologist who has done several types of procedures, that is probably good.

Tomorrow, I may get to do my back-country skiing of the season in Colorado. Because of my self-cath schedule, my distance is limited by time, but this is the athletic activity that made me dismiss Urolift.

PAE IN MY HUMBLE OPINION IS MUCH MORE LOGICAL TO START WITH IF YOU ARE qualified the other stuff destroys as where this PAE is a different concept AND DONE BY A RADIOLOGIST NOT A UROLOGIST although a urologist is in on follow up is some way

drummer10@ 😛AE IN MY HUMBLE OPINION IS MUCH MORE LOGICAL TO START WITH IF YOU ARE

Embolisms are very tricky to work with. If they go wrong, you can die from the complications! This is a high risk procedure, much higher than TURP and the other prostate procedures.

You can't get a lung embolism from a procedure that destroys an artery.

I agree with Steven that PAE has more risks compared to Rezum. Besides the issue that he mentioned, there also seems to be some concerns about the amount of radiation from the scans that are required for the procedure.

Also, PAE does destroy tissue, just as Rezum does, but much more slowly, and perhaps not as accurately. Whether the procedure is done by a radiologist or a urologist seems to me to be a moot point, since both are working toward the same objective.

Although I've had the Rezum procedure and I'm very satisfied with the entire procedure and the results, I'm actually very open minded about other procedures. As I mentioned, I did several months of online research reading as much technical literature as I could find before I made my decision. Fortunately, I was able to self cath during that time.

Of course you can... any procedure that causes any sort of bleeding can have a clot form and migrate... you speak to many issues you know nothing about. keep it on "RECEIVE" and not "TRANSMIT".

@ken19524 : As I mentioned, I did several months of online research reading as much technical literature as I could find before I made my decision. Fortunately, I was able to self cath during that time.

Same here. The several months required to self-cath for bladder recovery before any surgery was considers, while frustrating at times, was well spent in terms of on-line research. Google and especially Google Scholar which focuses on the more technical literature are your friend!

I am not too sure if my original urologist who only does TURP was used to patients who did so much research as I did, but then, I am a retired scientist 😃

The bottom line is that all the procedures have their pluses and minuses. I decided on Rezum because it is less invasive and I was concerned about how Urolift which is also minimally invasive would hold up to my level of athletic activity.

no place for politics let keep the thoughts to yourself thanks

Good Afternoon Ken

I know we have had our own views on a couple of the procedure. We being different we all have our own concerns. You say that you are doing good with having the resume Which I am happy for you. Not to many men are that happy. There have been some of the men that were all for it Had under 6 shots and it did not work and still ended up with retro.

One of the men I know is one of my Urologist best friend. He went and had the procedure done by another Urologist even after my Urologist told him to try something else and not do it . The doctor did 8 injections. Did not work. The Rezum did so much damage he had to have a Trup done and at 45 he did not want to have retro but he had no choice. My Urologist partner did the Turp

Yours worked well for you and so did my Urolift worked good for me but how would we feel if they did not work on us. Would we be say the same or not.

We have so many different procedure because we are all different and we all have different concerns. Procedure and not one size fix's all.

I find that it is good to do your research but is that enough. I think it also depends on how good your doctor is.

I wish you all the best.........Ken

Its good to hear something positive about Rezum. I'm scheduled for Dec 14, hoping for good results.

Good luck with it! Sure hope U get great result... Could you explain how you chose rezume over other procedures? thx!

I m leaning towards Urolift...

Hello Tim

Good luck on the 14th

Have you been able to talk with your doctor and any of the patients that he has done. That would be a good Idea. I have talk with men that are looking to have the Urolift and see by Urologist. It is nice to here for someone that has gone through it

Like I said I wish you all the luck I can give you...Ken ( The Other Ken )

ken19524 answered my question 4 hours ago and his comment reflects my opinion almost exactly. Urolift isn't covered by my ins and I also dont want implants in my prostate, but thats just me. I also have a large med lobe.

Thanks Ken. I did discuss with my Uro, but not any patients, since everyone has different results, so its hard to know how it will work on me. I have read some of the bad results on this forum and it doesnt boost my confidence, but need to do something.

Yes when it is bad you do have to get something done. Sorry that you can't do the Urolift. They are working on the Urolift with median lobes. It has worked better good. My doctor has done a few. They just clip it to the one side. The only thing with Rezum it has worked for some but when it don't work you end up having to a procedure that you are trying to stay away from. Turp

Good Luck Ken

Good evening all.

I think we all have to take one step back. Remember we all have different opinions

Sometime we have to make jokes. What we all are dealing with is a lot. Should I or shouldn't I have my prostate cut out or should I have it clipped even have injections. We have to decide what is best for us.

This decision not only effects out body but it also as a impact our mind and our way of life. All men have different concerns on what they can deal with. Which is a lot of drama. I have know men that were talked into a procedure and after all they wanted to do is be dead

There are also men that when they do not have the outcome they were told they would have they stopped having sex because it did not feel the same. Some wives even left there husband after. You are not the only one that has to deal with your surgery your partner is in it to.

Let's try to be nice to one another. There is to much crap going on as it is.

God Bless and Take care All..............................Research is the Key.........Ken

Thanks Steve and Ken1955 you're absolutely right

No problem

We all have to stick together to help one another...

The Other Ken

Any procedure that insurance does not cover would be a hard choice for me as well... I wish you all the best with it.

Skoal!

Ken1995,

Very well said! And David, sorry if I picked on you.

Steve

Buddy.

We all have a lot to deal with. I saw the comment it did not bother me. I just read it and moved on. Life is to short to worry about things being said.

We do need to treat others with respect for what we have to go through in life as we get older. BPH is starting to hit me younger men now a days. A man in his 40's would have different concerns then a man in his 60 's or 70 ' s

Sometime we just have to make a joke to stop from crying.

I wish you all good health.................................Ken

Thank you Steven

We all just have to get along. We are lucky that we have this forum to talk with other men with the same problems. In our fathers time you did not talk about things like that.

I could not see my father going into a bar and asking his friend "" How's your prostate today ""

Also we have to remember that we are from all over the world and some procedure are not being used or available in there area. So we have to inform that of what is out there.

I could go on but you all know what I am trying to say

Be good and safe ........................Ken

Right Ken,

It's a big deal that we have a forum like this, through computers, that our fathers and grandfathers didn't have.

My grandfather took a milk carton with him to bed every night to pee in so he wouldn't have to get up so much. Nobody talked about it, but I can see now it was his way of dealing with BPH. If he had a computer and forum like this he may have found out about catheterization which he could have done, even in the 1950s. He lived to 68, so didn't have to deal with it too long.

BPH treatments are moving along very rapidly now compared to the past, because of the aging population, and partly due discussions like this, taking place through forums like this.

Take Care

Thomas

Thank you Thomas

Yes this forum is a God sent.

My Father died almost 20 years ago. He was 82 never had a problem with his prostate. Must have been the the beer he drank when he was younger.

I have a older brother he just told me a few week ago. That he doctor told him his prostate was a little big and told him to take Dutasteride. I told him to ask for something else to many side effect. He is 75 and this is the first time he has as any problem. He PSA is 2.2

I'm glad thing are changing. One day we will have something great. Right now we do have a lot to pick from

God Bless.......Ken