scared to have another cervical smear test

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Had such an unpleasant experience with my last smear test that im now two years over due , five years since i had my last one, nurse was left handed, does that, should that make much difference?  she said she couldnt find my cervix, and it was very painfull. never before have i found it like this in all the previous years. i know its silly and i should have one seeing im post menapausal but i am very reluctant to make an appointment.

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  • Posted

    Susan, chances are you're having unnecessary pap testing. MOST women are HPV- and cannot benefit from pap testing, but can be harmed by false positives, excess biopsies and over-treatment. (which is fairly common)

    Only about 5% of women aged 30 to 60 are HPV+, these are the only women who should be offered a 5 yearly pap test. (until they clear the virus)

    This is the new evidence backed Dutch program, no population pap testing, a cruel burden for HPV- women, and instead women will be offered 5 HPV primary tests at ages 30,35,40,50 and 60 OR women can self test with the Delphi Screener...and ONLY the roughly 5% who are HPV+ will be offered a 5 yearly pap test. This will save more lives and takes most women OUT of pap testing and harms way. Many post menopausal women find pap testing intolerable, painful, may cause bleeding and even the position can be difficult if you have arthritis etc.

    Fact is MOST older women are HPV- and having unnecessary pap testing.

    Heads should roll, so many women have been left worried and harmed by this testing. Informed consent is supposed to be a legal right, yet has been ignored in women's cancer screening.

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    • Posted

      Thanks eliz52, i wasnt aware of this, its true about being harmed too, i had so much pressure put on the entrance to my uretha last time that i ended up with urithitis due to brusing. im 64 next birthday so will not be bothering to have any more unless symptoms persuade me otherwise.

       

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  • Posted

    You can source HPV self testing online or ask your doctor for advice on HPV self testing, but you'll have to be firm, doctors get target payments for pap testing. You might have to doctor shop to find someone respectful. You can also, order kits online. I'm 56 and don't have pap tests, it concerns me that so many women are having unnecessary pap testing, excess biopsies and potentially harmful over-treatment. This damage is mostly avoidable. 
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    • Posted

      Hi Susan.I am 51 and since discovering the truth about this programme I will take no further part.I live in New Zealand and informed consent is not part of cancer screening here. They still smear test women from the age of 20 and pay incentives to push Drs to capture 80% of eligible women. As for breast screening, women are not told about the harms of over diagnosis. Thankfully,women are beginning to get to the truth by doing their own research.
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  • Posted

    Couldn't agree more with Eliz52.

    Have your previous tests all been negative? If so, your odds of getting cervical cancer are extremely, extremely remote. You need to test positive to the HPV virus to even run a remote risk of getting cervical cancer. Unfortunately the NHS does not offer HPV testing, and the tests are only available privately for about £45. This involves yourself taking a swab with a long Q-tip and sending it off to a lab. You get the results back in a few days. Urine tests for HPV have been successful in development, but we still aren't seeing them being made available to women yet, who are expected to roll up to the painful old test without question. The Netherlands is offering HPV self-testing kits for free from 2016, and there will be no need to roll up for a smear test if the result comes back negative. Australia has also announced it will switch to HPV testing in 2016. I think our NHS is keeping this information from British women out of fear many will hold back until the new test comes out. You are not silly at all, but wise and sensible to question a procedure, which causes you so much pain. If you are low risk, you may wish to wait for a better test to come along. It is your right to be informed.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/new-urine-test-could-replace-invasive-smear-tests-9736609.html

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    • Posted

      Thanks informed for that info too, yes all my smears have been negative for the last 40 odd years. i was under the impression that our chances of developing nasty things increased after the menapause, our sons girlfriend who is a nurse said aww you should have it done considering your age. Have made a note of the link thanks
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    • Posted

      Susan,

      Your son's GF is right, the likelihood of lots of things increases as we age, but cervical cancer is different, your risk comes down to whether you're HPV+ or HPV- (and aged 30 to 60)

      Evidence based programs found in the Netherlands and Finland don't offer pap testing before age 30 (and note the Finnish program goes back to the 1960s so this is not new evidence) and testing usuallly stops at age 60. (sometimes earlier)

      Now HPV primary testing and HPV self testing will take most women out of pap testing and many women will test for HPV only once or twice, those HPV- and no longer sexually active or confidently monogamous.

      You should know also, that a false positive pap test result is more likely when you're post menopausal and it can be difficult to get a decent sample. So these poor women often endure re-testing or an unnecessary colposcopy or biopsy.

      It's a disgrace that women are not treated as individuals, that informed consent is ignored along with the evidence.

      So many women go through hell with this testing and it's all so unnecessary.

      Needless to say a program that would take 95% of women out of pap testing would not be welcome by pathology companies, doctors etc. who all make milllions from this testing, excess biopsies and over-treatment.

      Every woman should have the option of HPV self-testing, it's easy and reliable and we should receive evidence based information. I note some UK doctors state HPV- women should still have pap testing, that's not a statement backed by the evidence. HPV- women cannot benefit from pap testing, but can be harmed.

      Good luck...hope this information eases your mind.

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  • Posted

    Hi To Susan and all women out there.  Because doctors are making a fortune out of smear testing (The whole industry in England is now worth 3billion!!!!!!! in America it is 17billion!!!!)  they are not telling you about the alternatives.  A simple urine test has been available for the past 10 years which will twll you once and for all if you have the HPV virus.  If you have it no amount of smears will tell you if you have cancer.  It is impossible.  What you need to demand!!! yes demand is the Delphi home testing kit.  I assume most women know where there cervix is.  one wipe and post the sample off in the supplied special envelope to your nearest cytology lab.  Come on sisters wake up!!! Doctors will never change unless you start demanding your rights as a woman.  Smears are an outdated form of testing but the doctor will never tell you this becasue he gets about 200 per patient if reaches target of about 80%
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    • Posted

      You are spot on, Linda. GPs get about £3,000 if they can hit the 80% screening target, nevermind how many HPV negative women they hurt, bully or pack off to colposcopy in the process. This conflict of interest should be widely disclosed to all women going for screening, but it is kept well hidden. They don't want women to know that what they are going through with this test, could be simply replaced with a home self-test HPV kit. A variety of them are now online. HPV negative women have no chance of cervical cancer, and therefore a smear test is futile in these cases. It's all about making money, keeping women in the dark about risks, tabloid newspapers selling scare stories and attempting to frighten the wits out of women, so that they will flock to these screening programmes out of guilt and desperation. These programmes and the charities, which support them peddle blind fear and ignorance rather than helpful balanced information. It is time that the truth came out.
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    • Posted

      The other shocking fact is that 95% of women aged 30 to 60 WOULD test HPV- if you gave them the opportunity to test and the right information so they understood the significance of being HPV-

      The misinformation given to women means advances often end up being harmful/excess, we see the Americans using both the pap and HPV test on women over the age of 30, using both tests leads to the most over-investigation for no additional benefit to women, but of course, it leads to even higher profits for vested interests.

      I believe women are being used in the worst possible way to make big profits for vested interests.

      In the UK if women use a HPV self test they're often told they still need pap tests, rubbish. HPV- women cannot benefit from pap testing, they know that (or should know that) but want to keep all women in the program, they're protecting the program, not women. It's telling and concerning when pap testing HPV- women can do no more than expose them to risk. 

      It's a very serious matter, it has shocked me for a long time now, that the medical profession and others would treat women like this, the cervix is now the centre of a huge and highly profitable business model, it has nothing to do with healthcare, the way it's practised, it's harmful.

      Also, we should not be doing pap or HPV testing on women under 30, we should protect them and their cervix. Long standing evidence shows this group produce the most false positives and we know where that can lead, and we also, know that pap testing young women does not prevent the super rare cervical cancer that occurs in young women.

      So it means high over-treatment for young women for no benefit.

      So it's as easy as women using the Delphi Screener or other HPV self test at age 30 (or the invasive test taken by a doctor) and the roughly 5% who are HPV+ should be offered a 5 yearly pap test. All of the "confusion" and excess is not about our health, but more about justifying and preserving the business model that suits so many, but it's a lousy deal for women. Keeping real information from women means keeping women in the dark is easy and ignoring informed consent and even consent itself means they can capture a lot of women. (forget about ethics and the law)

      I'm convinced women will have to take matters into their own hands, demand something better, vested interests will do all they can to keep their businesses sound, they couldn't care less about us or our health.

      I do know that doctors back off quickly when they're faced with an informed woman, I've also, found some GPs have a poor understanding of cervical and breast cancer screening, they seem to rely on the official discourse and just follow the program. (they're also, rewarded for doing so with target payments for pap testing)

      Once informed, you're safe, and can make informed decisions about testing.

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    • Posted

      So in summary 95% of women aged 30 to 60 are having unnecessary pap testing, they'd be HPV- (if they tested)

      AND we shouldn't be testing women under 30.

      That's a LOT of unnecessary pap testing and a lot of colposcopy, excess biopsies and over-treatment that could be avoided, easily avoided.

      We also, know that women find colposcopy, biopsy and treatments very stressful, there is a Nordic Cochrane study that talks about the high stress associated with these procedures. (as if we needed a study to know these things are stressful!)

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  • Posted

    Hi.  I think some of you here are friends from 'womenseyesonly'  I am making it my business over the week to go on every forum I can find to alert woman to this scam. I put a post on the NHS offical website and within hours I got a not to say they had taken it off!!!!  I have put another toned down version of it on this morning hopefully that will pass there criteria. 
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    • Posted

      Censorship has always been a feature of this program, but the last 5 years things have changed and more of my posts stay in place. I think they know the old tactics to silence critical discussion no longer work, word is out, more women are informed, screening rates are falling and more women are demanding something better or sourcing better options themselves...that must be a huge worry to those who protect these programs. Most of their tactics only work if women have no clue of the evidence and don't understand their rights.

      Perhaps, it's time they started protecting and respecting women, wouldn't that be a nice change?

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    • Posted

      I think now is a good time to contact politicians, with the general election coming up in May. They all have web sites and contact pages online. Search the Hansard online or parliament.uk for who has spoken up recently for smear tests.  Most of them are under the impression that women are gagging for more screening, due to the recent media campaigns by some misinformed members of the public who believe the smear itself is a cure for cancer. Note the NHS stays very quiet on informing the public of the medical evidence. Don't want to see a drop in screening attendances, after all, do they....  

      Some MP's think screening is a sure vote winner amongst the female electorate. It is important we speak up and let them know how we feel. I've had several leaflets through the door already and health and rapid cancer diagnosis is high on the agenda. It is important we let them know that we want evidence based actual fugures, not scaremongering percentages. We also want informed choice and an informed role in decision making about our health. We want to go to our GP's to discuss what WE have come about, not what boxes THEY want to tick off with us. This is our appointment, not theirs. Women want honest, real information, not the paternalistic, 1950's "Woman's Weekly" style preaching the doctors give out on this site.

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