Self Catherization. An alternative to Turp, Greenlight, HoLEP...?

It's called a  "false passage" and supposedly not that uncommon. They also I believe can heal fairly quickly. I thought I had a false passage a few times but the doc kind of blew it off and honestly nothing developed. If you keep having issues, especially if you seem to be hitting a dead end,  other than the bladder, then you should bring it up to your doc and they can take a look inside the urethra and tell you one way or another. What you describe doesn't sound like a false passage but you never know. Not lately, but in the past, from time to time, I've also had a bit of a snag or twinge of pain but then it goes away. I just wrote it off to tissue irritation. Just don't force anything.

Jim

Jim 

Being fairly new at this the false passage thing was a real concern because then and sometimes still now, it takes forever to enter the bladder. I  don't put a lot of pressure on the catheter but enough to bend it a bit (12 Fr) so I am always a bit worried . But then it always eventually enters the bladder so I figure that I'm successful at catherization then worries about false passage are moot..

Is  this a corrrect way of thinking...

Hi Jim,

You earlier mentioned about doing our own bladder wash using a syringe of sterile saline and the catheter. Do you prepare your own syringes or are they purchased ready to attach to the catheter?

Thanks Neil

JW,

Most of the time a false passage is at the external sphincter by the prostate, so probably something else if your problem is entering the bladder (internal sphincter). My 12F Speedicath bends a little as well going around the prostate but has enough rigidity to push through. 

So, if your problem is entering the bladder you might want to try this little experiment I mentioned to Neil. Instead of doing CIC after your natural void, try it one or two times before your natural void. Another thing you might want to try is to use your detrussor's to simulate a void when your catheter reaches the bladder wall. You should probably try these two things independently. The purpose of both is to loosen up the internal sphincter. 

Jim

Hi Neil,

Bladder irrigation will not prevent or stop any bleeding caused by CIC, it just washes the bladder which may have questionable benefits. I have done it a number of times but not much recently as not sure it has done anything. 

That said, I purchased what are sometimes called "irrigation syringes" either online or at a medical supply store. They come without the needles and the pointed part fits right into the hole in the plastic funnel on the catheter. The ones I got were I think 60cc and I filed them with around 40-50cc of sterile saline. Do not get the ones for dental irrigation because they have tiny tips. Think I paid around a couple of dollars each for them, possibly more. I never reused them but I don't see why you couldn't if you washed them thoroughly in a disinfectat like provilone iodine. I got my sterile saline online in individual 100cc bottles. Cost was under a dollar for each bottle.

What I did was to prepare the syringe in advance with the saline and lay it aside on some paper towels. Then, after cathing, with the catheter still in, I would mate the tip of the syringe to the catheter funnel and push in the fluid. Then I would remove the syringe. Then cath out the fluid. Repeat right away once or more times until the fluid coming out is clear or clearer. Three hands would be nice because the catheter tended to pop up right after cathing and before mating with the syringe. But it's doable with two

Alternatively, I would push and pull the syringe plunger up and down several times while catheter is in the bladder to create a "washing machine" motion. Just be careful here because I got a couple of stinging sensations doing this probably caused by the catheter being too close to the bladder wall and pinching it when I created a suction pulling the syringe handle up.

Jim

Thanks Jim.

I finally tried a hot bath just before CIC last night but to my surprise it did not make passage through the bladder any easier. I've tried all the ideas now but the one that works every time is just to maintain light pressure for several minutes and then all of a sudden the tip moves in quietly and with no fanfare. I still get a string or two of coagulated blood coming out first followed by maybe a teaspoon now of fresh looking blood (down froma tablespoon) and then normal urine. The finish now is also normal with no blood.

I wanted to ask you about the finish just when the urine stops flowing. I often get an uncofmrotable feeling like a drain closing down with an abrupt end to the flow. It is hard to explain. Is this normal? No big deal but just wondering.

Take care

Neil

Hi Neil,

Two ideas. 

First idea is to go with what is working, ie the light pressure at the door, but try to combine it with mindfulness visualizing the sphincter and letting go instead of being goal oriented.  You might also try running the sink water, or perhaps some relaxing music. At first I would not focus on the goal (entering the bladder) but just be in the moment. Once the door does open try and capture that moment, how it feels, try and visualize it. Later, on subsequent attempts you can be mindful of that feeling while at the same time not forcing things to happen.

The second idea is to switch from what you're taking to another smooth muscle relaxant. Hopefully your nurse can offer you some to try. It's great to do everything natural, but don't knock a pharmacological approach if you need it. 

Meanwhile, hopefully the PT will show some benefits. Have you stopped the Kegels? They may be counter productive to what you're trying to achieve. 

As to the "drain closing", are you talking about the end of natural urination? It's kind of hard to compare things like this in the written word but I'm going guess it's your tight bladder sphincter again. I will try and be more aware next time I urinate but with bph it's more common for a little dribble than a complete shut down. Maybe we'll get input from others on this to see if they get that "abrupt" end. Alternatively, it could be your external sphincter which is a voluntary muscle. 

Jim

 

Thanks Jim for these suggestions. I am not talking about the end of my NV - that works fine with no dribbling or discomfort. Rather I am referring to the end of the cathing when the last few drops of urine come out and before I start to slowly pull the catheter out to drain any more urine that is still in there. It is a strange and uncomfortable feeling though not painful. There is even a sound associated with it like the sound made by an emptying sink right at the end. Maybe it is as you suggest the internal sphincetr closing down around the catheter which is still inside the bladder. I do not have any issues when I slowly withdraw the catheter and exit the bladder.

I do try to visualize the inetrnal sphincter opening when I am waiting. I sway back and forth and chant "relax relax". I'll try to do it better.

I haven't heard yet from the continence nurse but hope to soon. Also my friend in Canad has received some IQ cath samples and he will send them on to me this week. I'll keep you posted.

On the phsyical therapist - I am a bit worried now about him. He massaged the inside of my thighs as the muscles were very tight. I did tell him the pressure was too much. But today I noticed that both inside thighs are really black and blue and very painful. My wife was horrified and said I should not let him into my anus as he seems to be much to rough and can cause damage to an already-comprimised area. I tend to agree and may look elsewhere. I definitely believe in the concepts but better find someone else.

Thanks Jim - I hope all is well with you.Neil

Forgot to mention - I did stop the Kegels' a while ago.

Hi JIm, Is bladder irrigation the same a s flushing our the bladder?

Thats what my uro did Dec 22, he then put a foley catheter in .As of Dec 26, i still have the foley catheter in.I went to see him because i was getting blood  after i did cic  4 times that night.I had a urinalysis test ,never had a fever ,don't know results of test yet. I don't think i have a UTI. My urine is fine and has been good since i had a flushed bladder.I think the bleeding  was from doing cic?I do feel a buring in my urethra,this could be from the foley Catheter?

I need your opinion JIm.

Thanks very much

Do you think 

Neil,

When I self cath it often ends abruptly and I will listen for a sound next time. Can't say it's an uncomfortable feeling with me. As to the imagery, maybe you're trying too hard to relax. Try counting backwards from 100 and see what happens. Don't know what to say about the black and blues. Doesn't sound right.

Jim

Thanks Jim. I was thinking that we all write to you for help with our questions, but who do you write to when you need help?

Take care

Neil

Neil,

Other than the cookie cutter stuff there wasn't much out there. At first I relied on my urologist's nurse, but all that got me was a whopping UTI and a bad case of epididymitis! So necessity truly became the mother of invention with me. Fortunately things worked out and I'm happy to pass along anything that might be helpful.

Jim

 there so I guess as they say 

. At first, I relied on my nurse but all that got me was a whopping UTI and a bad case of epidydimitis!

Hi, Neil,

Not sure I have an answer, but I experience the same feeling at times when I CIC. It's weird, but when it's going to happen, I can feel it coming on toward the end of draining. It's kind of like a pinch at the end. I feel this more frequently with the FR 12 Speedicath than I do with the FR 14 Origo.  And with the FR 12 I often get a sense of resistence when I try to pull out after that pinch.

I think it's my sphincter gripping the catheter, but I could be wrong. When it happens, I usually wait a second, then gently twist the catheter back and forth slightly, and after that the catheter comes out without a problem.

Also, at times when I finish draining, my urine glugs out, making that kitchen sink sound you describe. And rarely, at the end of draining, it seems as though air is getting sucked up the catheter. Don't know if that's acutally happening or not--it just sounds that way.

Did anything like these things happen when you ran your experiment with the water bottle? Just curious.

Stebrunner

Hi stebrunner - thanks for your post - you described my own experience better than I did myself! I do think that some air gets into the trigone region near the end of draining. My simple water bottle experiment showed that after the bladder compressed down to empty the pee the trigone region was strong enough not to compress, so the remaining small amount of pee in that region got displaced out by air moving up the catheter in spurts to push out the pee. So maybe that is what is happening at the end. I know I always feel like I still have to pee after cathing. I tried jimjames idea to cath again right away but found no residual. So I attribute it to either irritation or some air. By 30 minutes after cathing that feeling goes away.

Tomorrow at 11 am the continence nurse will visit me here at home. She sounded very nice on the phone but I am nervous about the visit. She has a protable u/s machine to measure my PVR and she wants to watch my technique to see why I am having problems getting through the inner sphincter. Last night at 2 am I waited 10 minutes to get through and finally gave up but I was very tense from the day. There was no blood on the catheter tip though so it must all be inside.

I am curious to ask you and everyone else the following question: Do you notice if you cath a few hours after sex if it makes cathing harder/easier? Just wondering if having an orgasm affects the ease of cathing within so many hours?

Thanks stebrunner - hope your Christmas went well.

Neil

Hi Neil,

Can't answer your question because I don't have a problem with the bladder sphincter, however hopefully a hands on guidance (forgive the pun) will be helpful A few thoughts.

1. Ask the nurse about going up a catheter size. You may need a bigger hammer. Also ask her about trying some smooth muscle relaxant drugs.

2. Have you tried to cath sitting or lying down? It's possible a change in position will make things easier.

3. Are you on blood thinners by any chance? That would make you more prone to bleeding. 

Jim

Hi, Neil,

I hope your Christmas went well, too. Mine was relaxing and fun.

Thanks for sharing your observations on your water bottle experiment.

Those have been helpful.

Before bed last night I drank more water than I normally do. When I woke for the third time around 2:30 a.m. (normally I wake 1 or 2 times a night), I decided to cath so I could get a solid 4 hrs of sleep afterward. Again I battled with my external sphincter--5 tries with 5 catheters over about 20 minutes. Had 3 NVs in that time for a total of 340 ml. I figured that was good enough and gave up on cathing.

Did my first CIC of the day at 7 a.m. and succeeded with a little bit of effort. Had sex about an hour later. Just had my 2nd CIC at 11 a.m. and breezed past my external sphincter easily. Seems to usually be that way after sex. I think the orgasm reduces some of the pressure in the prostate.

BTW, before bed last night I did some stretching exercises for my pelvic area. However, they didn't seem to help with my early morning CIC. Need to keep with them, though.

Stebrunner

Hi Niel

Just saw your post about the bruising on your thighs. Have you had your hemoglobin checked? Sounds to me like it is possible that you may be getting anemic which would explain both the bruising.and the bleeding issues while cathing....

Might want to get it checked..

Anemia 

Hi jwrhn - thanks for that suggestion - it is a good one and I will check my most recent blood tests for that.

Good luck

Neil

Neil, I think I know what you mean about the drain feeling.  With me, sometimes, when it's just about completely drained, I feel like it could be a suction of the catheter to the bladder wall. There's a feeling like the catheter's opening is stuck to the wall of the bladder, causing a suction like feeling. What I do is slightly and gently twist the catheter a bit, and usually more urine flows out.  Now on every CIC, I twist the catheter back and forth, for 100 times, before pulling it out of the body. Hope this helps.

Hi Jim

I have more or less gotten over the problems with entering the bladder but now I'm finding that instead of being able to pee pretty much all the time I'm getting fairly large PVR of 350-600 ml every 6 hours  with a natrual void of only 50-100ml before..

It's like the old bladder dont botherto be concerned  if I'm going to CIC every 6 hours anyway.... What I'm  wondering there any evidence or heresay that CIC could make you dependant on CIC and worse off before one started self catherization...

CIC is something I don't want to depend on going forward as I will be in a situation in a few years where a catheter will be very scarce,, My concern now is how quickly the old body has come to depend on CIC  and seemingly become dependant on those 6 hour voids. Is there a realistic hope with a nuerogenic bladder  "rehalibation" is possible.. ..

Hi JW,

Glad to hear that you've gotten over the technical problems of CIC.

Could you please summarize your history and symptons, including any procedures prior to CIC and how you were diagnosed with neurogenic bladder?

In my case, I had no neurological damage. My problem was a very stretched (flaccid) bladder probably caused by many years of "holding it in" combined in later years with a prostate obstruction. All this resulted in a bladder diverticulum, high PVRs and eventually near acute urinary retention when the detrussor muscles were no longer strong enough to expel urine through the obstruction. As you know, I was able to rehabilitate my bladder so that it functions in almost a normal fashion by decompressing and resting my bladder through CIC over a 2-3 year period. 

I do know that CIC is the go to procedure for neurological bladders but my understanding is that it's more for maintenance than rehabilitation. That said, I was told the same thing, ie that I would never be able to urinate without CIC, but the doctors were wrong. But again, my condition seems different from yours so it may be apples and oranges.

What I can say is that you seem to be holding too much urine in your bladder and that you should increase CIC frequency so that it doesn't hold more than 400ml at any one time. This is not just to rehab your bladder bu for kidney health as well, not to mention less chance of UTIs. 

As to becoming dependent on CIC, I found the opposite in my case, but again our diagnosis seems different. But playing devil's advocate, let's say it does may you become dependent, what other choices are you being offered? You can't go around with very large PVRs without taking some action. 

Curious, why will catheters become "scarce" in a few years? If it's a matter of supply logistics, there are reusuable catheters where one catheter can last several weeks, even more. That as opposed to the six-a-day hydrophillc disposables some of us use.

Jim

 

Hi Dennis - you describe it well and even though I expect it to happen it always catches me by surprise and let out a gasp. I will try rotating the catheter as it nears the empty point. I think it might be the internal sphincter muscle clamping down on the catheter at the end - it has that type of feeling - especially given the strength of mine - at least I have one strong muscle somewhere!

I tell my wife we need to move to Hawaii where I now have a friend. This winter has been the worse ever with freezing rain tonight followed by 2 days of rain then followed by a week of sub-zero temps and high winds and blizzards! Too old for this stuff now.

Happy New Year

Neil

Hello jwrhn

I also noticed that my natural void volumes decreased when I started to do CIC regularly. Before then I use to natural void between 200 and 300ml but now I just do 100 to 150ml. I believe it is due to the reduced bladder pressure now that I empty my bladder ona regular basis with CIC so that is good news for the bladder.

Recently when I had my bleeding (which has now cleared up) I did not CIC for 2 days to give it a chance to heal. During that time my natural voids increased back to over 200ml due to the higher bladder pressure. Now that I am CICing for the past 3 days again these natural void volumes have reduced to 150ml and I do not feel the pressure in my bladder anymore.

Happy New Year!

Neil

Hi, Thanks for this info. I just can't figure why you have to CIC if you can do NV? I cannot pee unless i do CIC.This is of great concern to me,and i would appreciate you answer to this. Thanks very much

I wish you the very best  healthy New Year?

thanks

frank

Hi Jim

I was involved in a car wreck about twenty years ago that left me with a tramatic brain injury and cervical spinal cord injury. One of the effects of the accident was that I began urinating about every hour with occasional episodes of not being able to hold it. Since starting CIC I began researching and the term nuerogenic bladder kept coming up that seemed to describe my symptoms. So out of curiosity I went back and looked at the medical records from the wreck and danged if nuerogenic bladder wasn't one of the diagnostic codes..I was in rehabilitation for more than a year and was totally unable to work for more than two years and was never quite  able to return to full time but got close for a few years. MRI's at the time of the accident showed axonal sheer and testing showed a drop of about thirty points in my IQ. 

My nuerological/mental status was fairly stable for about fifteen years but it started declining again about five years ago and has accelerated in the past couple of years. My PSA has been elevated for the last ten years at around 9 plus or minus a point or two. Last summer I began having a lot of pain and numbness on my right side as well a few days where I had a lot of problems urinating ...going every half hour with very little void. So my PCP scheduled me for x-rays of my neck and spine and thats when they noticed the urinary retention and started me on CIC and finesteride.

It took a few months for me to get the hang of CIC, and thanks again for your help along the way. The high PVR's just started a few days ago, before that it was averaging one hundred fifty to two hundred with occasional spikes to around three hundred. Incidentially, the pattern of going along fine and then have a sudden decline is very much the way declines in my mental and physical capacity occur.

I've started to self cath every four hours if the PVR is over two hundred. It seems to be working after a day of that I finally got down to a NV of one twenty five and  PVR of one twenty five on last cath will see what the next one is.

As to the scarcity of the catheters. I refuse to go to a memory unit in some nursing home when the time comes. I have a little plot of land on a little Pacific island out in the middle of nowhere . Medical supplies will be pretty much non existant.

Hi JW,

It's not unusual for NVs to decline when you self cath. It's more related to total bladder volume (less when you self cath) than related to bladder function. The important thing when self cathing is not NV volume, but total bladder volume which ideally should be under 400ml. I would also not worry about temporary spikes up and down with NVs because it could have to do with other issues such as fluid intake, diet, etc.

The little plot in the middle of nowhere sounds great! You know the medical logistics better than I do but as far as CIC goes, a couple of dozen red rubber catheters should last you a year. I've also seen a study where a single reusuable vinyl catheter lasted a year. If you really want to go "island", you could boil water to sterilize it and then use the water as a lubricant. Needless to say, I would try out these ideas at home first before you disappear into the sunset

Jim

Hi, Frank,

I still have to CIC because I don't have enough bladder tone to completely empty my bladder. I'm following Jimjames' model for bladder rehab and hope to see further improvement this coming year.

BTW, when checking out treatment options, I went to the Mayo Clinic. A urologist there told me if I wanted a chance to NV again I should do a HoLEP. I knew my bladder tone was poor so I pressed him on the odds of the surgery working. He back-peddled on the odds. I told him I didn't think I wanted to gamble on his surgery, and then still end up CICing. He responded by telling me that's the gamble I'd have to make.

Well, I didn't go with the HoLEP. I went with PAE without any expectation of NVs. But now 6 months later I can do NVs, and my volumes have gradually increased.

I wish you a healthy new year, and best of luck in choosing a treatment option!

Stebrunner

Yes, you should move here.  We can start a prostate club. {grin}.  It's been really rainy this year.  OUr yard is like a sponge. Back to the prostate, I think you may want to do what I do, rotate the catheter, back and forth while it is still in the bladder.  I do it 100 times.  This way, my guess, is that you get your muscle to get used to the catheter, so it doesn't clamp down on it so hard.  When I first started CIC, it took me a few minutes to get to the bladder, now I usually do it in 7 seconds.  My best time, was 5 seconds.  When I first started CiC, I could sometimes, hear a little pop when I passed through the prostate.  It kind of surprised me to hear that sound.  Now, because my prostate and bladder, is used to the catheter, on a daily basis, the catheter, slips right through, into the bladder. What you could do is try and experiment a little.  Everytime you CIC, rotate that catheter, for 100 times, while it is still in the bladder.  See if that helps with easing the penetration.

Just an idea I have a flip flo valve on my Foley catheter and when I open it and finish peeing I get kind of a suction sensation when the flow stops... Maybe this is what's described above. Also, if I lift my scrotum at the end it drains another 100mil. Cheers Gipsy

Hi Gipsy,

Thanks for the tip re the scrotum. 

What is your current status in terms of a proposed TURP? This would not be my personal choice but even if it was I would make sure beforehand that my bladder was in good enough shape for a successful operation. If your bladder is still lacks enough tone it's possible that you could have a "successful" TURP and still need to catherize in order to void! What these docs fail to tell us is that voiding problems and lower urinary tract syndrome (LUTS) may be as much, if not more, bladder related than prostate related. But unfortunately, their training and the money is on the prostate side so they often reflexively just operate on the prostate and hope for the best. 

Have you had a trial without catheter (TW0C) yet? How about urodynamic testing? You should have both before even considering a TURP. You might also consider getting off the Foley and either get a suprapubic catheter with a flip-flo valve, or preferably learn how to self cath. A suprapubic would work similar to the Foley except no tubes in the urethra plus it will allow you to attempt self voids thereby excercising your detrussor muscles. Self cathing gives you the most freedom and has the least chance of infection. It is also a viable long term solution and in some cases can rehabilitate the bladder and thereby improve bladder function. In my case it has returned bladder function almost to normal from a previous condition where like you my urologist said only a TURP would do that.

Jim

I paused to ponder the lifting of the scrotum comment, wondering how that could help drain more from the bladder.  It occurs to me that it may be helping to open some constriction (a stricture) in the urethra in the perineum area.  You may want to ask your doctor to check you out for that at some point.  

Thanks Jim, turps is the very last thing on my list and no chance if up to me, which it is. I hear what you say re CIC and seeing the continence nurse this week. No worries that turps will happen. Lots of other options before i give up. The urologist has already given up on the urolift so he is pushing turps not me. He used 11implants so it would be a minefield in there. No cutting burning or anything at the moment for me, just exploring CIC. Cheers Gipsy

Mybe they needed more implants.  I only had 4 put in and it worked fine for me but other men need more.  ChuckP had it done but they only put in four it did not work  He went back and they put 4 more he is great now.  Going like when he was younger.  It all depends.  I'm glad your not giving into the doctor.  Mayo Clinic told me turp procedure are down 40% because of all the other new procedure.  They are saying no to the doctors and standing by there word.  Take care and good luck Ken

Hi Ken, Would you ask your URO if the uro-lift would work if you have complete retention.Ihave to CIC to pee.

Thanks Ken,

frank

Frank.  Remember I asked him that all ready.  He told me that he has had good results with patients that have had retension.  But he also said that if it did not work  it would make CIC easier for you Because the prostate would be opened up.  Ken

Ken, as I said, I have 11tags so I don't think more will work. No turp and consider CIC for me

I have retention for 8 months and from 185cc prostate to 93cc after Avodart. I have protrusion into bladder and 11 insert uro lift and no luck. It doesn't work for me but I still think a reasonable gamble to take as a minimal approach before more procedure. I will try cic before ANYTHING else 😈

Hi, I also have retention. cannot pee unless i do cic. My uro said  uro lift won't work if you have retention. Did you do a urodynamics test,before  urolift? What does your uro say about this?

This is a great way to find answers to our problems.

Looking forward to your reply

frank,

 

Sorry I must of missed that in one of the post.  You would think that would have worked.  Maybe it's not the prostate and it's your bladder.  My prostate was pushed together but was able to force myself to pee small stream My doctor judst pulled it apart.  Good luck with the CIC. Ken

Yes Ken that is why I'm not going to be rushed into any kind of surgery without first working out why uro lift failed. Turp is definitely not an option at the moment and maybe never! No cutting burning or scraping for me. Slowly but surely I will pee again. The only reason I had uro lift is because it is minimal invasion and the first goto for me. Big gamble at 11000 bucks but I'm not done yet with trying to make it work.

Cheers Gipsy

Thats good  Ken

Glenn and all, I have indwelling catheter so my story is a bit different from others. My engineering brain tells me with my protrusion and the mechanics of the catheter if I lift my scrotum it changes the angle of the tip of the catheter allowing it to get more out by accessing the pool below the tip. Also the flexibility of my protrusion would prevent all of the contents being drained so moving the tip allows access to that reserve.

Cheers Gipsy

Gipsy,

That makes sense. BTW I tried it the other day during a normal void and no difference. That said, you never know what might work.

Jim

Hi Jim, Cialis i wanted to try this pill,like you mentioned, instead of  flomax , is doing nothing, Do you think their might be a chance to do NV with  cialis?

 This is avery expensive pill,it's not on my formulary. Do you take this pill? and where do buy it JIm?

Thanks my friend,

frank

Frank and all, since the failure of my uro lift my Dr wants me to go back on the Avodart which I stopped before the procedure, I am interested if anyone has a story to tell about Avodart before I resume. I was on it for 6 months prior to the uro lift and it shrank my prostate from 190cc to 93. My gp tells me that Avodart at best gives a 40 percent reduction so as it is chemical castration I'm not up for that. Any stories good or bad will be welcome. Also John's FLA results excited me so I am exploring that too. No cutting burning or anything else for me at present. Slowly slowly catche monkey 😊

cheers Gipsy

Hi,i've been taken dutasteride,generic for Avordat ,for 7 months,started June 1st,I have complete retention,no NV.I'm still taking this medicine,however i have no good results,nothing has changed, my prostate has not changed ,it has done nothing for me . My Uro tells to keep taking this pill.along with flomax,I guess because i'm thinking to get GL surgery.

hi gipsy, Did you experience any improvement with you prostate shrinkage ? Hank

Frank and Hank as you see above it did shrink the size of the

prostate and made me a candidate for ulolift winch I had Dec 8 with no success.

I have indwelling catheter and consider other options but I would say NOT greenlight! I am waiting for the next tov

and considering focal laser as a minimum approach. My urologist wanted to do turps but I say NO! Try to do the minimum first and not the sledgehammer approach. Cheers Gipsy

Hi Frank,

I think I had to pay around $100 a month for 5mg Daily Cialis even with Medicare. When I took it on a regular basis it worked a little better than Flomax.  I can't say whether it will help with your natural voids or not but you would know within a week or so. 

Jim

Hi guys - I have been on Avodart for over 10 years and while it initially lowered my PSA by half and helped with symptoms those benefits only lasted a few years but the adverse side effects have lasted a lifetime. I do not recommend taking it. I would like to get off of it now that I do CIC but I have heard horror stories about men who have tried to get off it after many years only to have their prostates balloon in size to the point they had their prostates removed. So do not take it is my advice.

Regarding alpha blockers like flomax, cialis I tried them all early on with bad side effects. But ten years ago I took alfuzosin (uroxatral; xatral) andit did change my life for the better with no side effects. It is a great muscle relaxant and has none of the side effects of the other drugs (at least for me). So I highly recommend it to you. The benefits occurred the first day and if I miss a day my natural voids drop.

Neil

Guys I wonder how many Australians are here? Maybe we can form a local group to discuss the Oz solution and keep in touch. I will follow this group but local suffering blokes can share some local information.

Cheers Gipsy

Neil,  I've stop taking Avodart, for around a month now.  I was taking Avodart, and Doxazosin.  So far no adverse reaction.  I am able to CIC with no problem.  I am  getting pretty good at it.  My best time, was 3 seconds, from point of entry, to entering the bladder.  Hope all is well with you.

Hi dennis, congrats, 3 seconds must be a new record. Jim(james) used to do it in 5 seconds (now he is rusty, so probably in 5 minutes)

Hank

Hi Hank/Dennis,

Not so fast guys. I stated "around 5 seconds" because I didn't want to intimidate anyone with the actual time

Jim

Hey guys.  Jim is one of the best on here.  He know a lot about alot of things not only CIC.  He improved his bladder and did not go for surgery like his doctor wanted.  Taking control and care of your body is what alot of men should do.  You should be in the front of your healing.  Not give it up to the doctor.  Jim you should be praise for helping many men on here.  Life is to short not to live it to the fulliest.  Take care all  Ken

Guys, excellent idea, let's make fun! What else?  Maybe Guinness book of records... 

In fact, Jim's "around 5 seconds" sounded very encouraging to me when I started. It dedramatized the procedure...

Does everybody here have some discomfort just after CIC? Is this normal? 

My external catheters are no longer enough at night, I wake up once and do CIC, mostly around 5 a.m. and mostly 300-400 cl. Good sign/bad sign? ZD

Hi ZD, I might just pass on Guinness but thanks for the thought Hard to say what the change means. On the positive side, could mean your incontinence is getting better. In any event, given your residual at 5am, sounds like a good time for CIC.

Jim

Wow, Dennis! Congrats on 3 seconds! And here I thought I was catching up to you and Jimjames with my new personal best of 15 seconds. You are the Usain Bolt of CIC! LOL!

Stebrunner

If you read the papers today, Ursain Bolt may not be a good comparison, which brings up the prickly fact that Dennis' time of 3 seconds may have been drug aided since he's on Doxazosin. Sorry Dennis, but that is a IOC* violation

Jim

*International Olympic Catheter

Hey guys.. I know you all are having some fun (  I know your joking ) with this but let us remember that you are putting a tube into your body and going through some important stuff.  I know you all that have to do CIC try to get it done as fast as you can but please be carefull.  I don't think it's how fast you get it in just as long as you can without having a problem.  In time it will be easier for you just like Jim.  He has been doing it for some time.  Take care all  Ken 

Thank you, Ken. Accuracy is more important than speed here!

Hi Ken and All,

Yes, just having some fun. The important thing with self cathing is to be gentle, very gentle. Take all the time you need. The catheter should never be forced and you should never have a time goal, that should be up to your body. The serious point is that with practice, self cathing can be a relatively quick and painless process that only takes a little more time than voiding without a catheter. For many of us here it has become a non-issue in our lives just as brushing your teeth or taking a shower. I don't need to do it very much these days but it's reassuring to know that it's there when I need it.

Jim

Yes Jim that is right.  being gentle with your body and doing it slow.  As you keep doing it it will get easy.  Just like you say it's like combing your hair or brushing your teeth.  I hope more men on here listen to you because you changed your life with CIC..  Your doctor wanted to do a surgery and you said no.  You changed it and repaired your bladder.  Many men on here with the same problem can do the same thing and heal there bladder.  Take control of your body please for a good life.  Take care Ken  

I've been off Doxzosin and Avodart, for a few months now. It's harder for me to have a natural flow, but I keep hoping that eventually, my bladder, will be similar to yours. I"ve done 3 seconds several times lately.  I think 2 seconds, is very possible.

Hi Gipsy,

I also have flip flo valve on my Foley but only use it for my daily bike rides. Do you use yours 24/7? FWIW, I also get that suction feeling at the end of flow.

Patrick