Self Catherization: Issues and Problems

Hi Jim - thanks for the response.

I think to be covered by insurance you need to go through your doctor but it can just be your PCP and not your uro.

I have another question:

I am cathing 4 times a day but 3 of them are between 11 pm and 6 am. Here is a typical 24 hour period from yesterday:

I cathed at 11:33 pm just before bed. My NV was 200ml and my CV was 300ml. Then I awoke at 4 am in great discomfort and had 50ml NV and a whopping 750ml CV! This is typical every night though the CVs are a bit smaller at 500 to 600ml.

Then at 7am my NV was 150ml and my CV 300ml. For the next 18 hours I am totally ok. Today at 3pm my NV was 300ml and my CV was 150ml. Often I do not even cath during the day as the CVs are so low. I drink well.

I have tried all your ideas to reduce my nightime high CVs and none work. I find it very worrying that in the night I carry such large volumes.

Do you know of any natural remedies that might reduce my nightime high CVs? I only awake once, always between 3 and 5 am with same issues.

I am scheduled for a creatinine and bun test on Tuesday to check the kidneys. I was tested a year ago and 6 months ago and though the levels were ok they were rising. But they have not been tested since I started CIC so hopefully they are stable.

My continence nurse said there are prescription drugs that address the hormone that is the culprit but they have awful side effects.

Thanks as usual.

Be well.

Neil

 

Hi Neil,

Sounds typical of nocturia caused by excessive night time urination.  I have it to a certain degree, lots of folks here have it. Not sure what I recommended but here’s a laundry list off the top of my head. Some may be more appealing than others. Speaking of different things to try, I’ve found that if I go off my low sodium diet and have a high sodium meal at night I sometimes get an uninterrupted sleep at night. So, if you want to trade a good night’s sleep for heart problems…

 1.       Limit total 24 hour  fluids to 48oz. (some think 64 oz is not always necessary)

2.       Stop fluids at 5pm.

3.       Afternoon naps. Recline with feet up.

4.       Compression stockings during the day.

5.       Play around with sodium intake but less is healthier.

6.       Try taking a diuretic in morning and/or afternoon such as hydrochlorothiazide. 

7.       Don’t know much about the side effects but at least get tested for vasopressin (antidiuretic hormone) secretion. It may or may not be the issue in your case. At same time get tested for diabetes, etc.

8.       Get tested for Sleep Apnea

9.       Wear a Foley at night. CIC during the day. (sounds a little extreme but I've heard some do with a trade off of an interrupted night's sleep)

10.   See if more exercise helps.

11.   Try and schedule day time voids even if you don’t feel the need. Maybe the body will get the hint.

12.   Get younger (if you figure this one out, please let me know 😊

Meanwhile, and I know it's a PITA but consider another cath at night to avoid such high volumes.

Did you try an rx diuretic like hydrochlorothiazide. It would probably get you the most bang for your buck with less side effects than hormonal treatment. Just be aware that hydrochorothiazide is often used to treat high bp, so if you decide to try it, coordinate with your gp because other meds that lower bp may have to be adjusted.

Jim

Hi Neil,

Just weighing in, as one who used to sleep through the night, every night (except about once a month), while only cathing 3X per day, and the rest NVing.  The daytime CVs were anywhere from 500-1000cc.  

Then I tried the JimJames World Famous Bladder Reduction Cathing Regimen (cathing with increased daytime cathing until quantities dropped to a usual CV of 300-400cc, with (in my case) NO NV to speak of.  THis led to my bladder size dropping so much, that I get "the signal" (to pee) at 200-300 cc.

The upside is that my bladder has shrunk, and less liquid in the holding tank means less likelihood of that cause of UTIs.

The downside is that I, too, now get up at night with some frequency.  The major causes, I have found is with liquid consumption after dinner time, and ESPECIALLY if I consume any alcohol, even a half-glass of wine.  Something about the alcohol (It is a poison, after all!) makes my body want to get it out, so there seems to be a rapid processing, so after going to bed around 11, I am up st 2 to cath.

Is evening/nighttime alcohol consumption in the picture for you?  If so, you might want to see whether and how drinking/not drinking affects your sleep.

Just a thought.

Hi Jim and cartoonman - thanks for your ideas. It's weird that I was set to "unfollow" on all the threads I follow. Maybe I was banned! Wouldn;t be the first time.

I don't drink alcohol as I never acquired the taste for it but maybe I should take it up now so I can drop it?

I haven't tried any prescription drugs for this but my wife (who is a nurse ) warns me against them.

Strange last night: I cathed at midnight before bed and had  NV 250ml and CV 200ml. Then I took 2 tylenols and for the first time in years I slept through the night until 6 am!! Then I cathed and it was NV 250 ml and CV 350ml. The CV pee was very dark yellow though while the NV was fine - strange.

I did a test cath at 3pm and after a 200ml NV only took out 125 ml but again dark yellow.

I would like to start to get off Avodart after 7 years.

Neil

Hi Neil,

Run hydrochlorized by the wife. Drug wise, it's pretty innocuous, or so I've been told. What it should do in theory, if you take it at the right time, is to force the system to urinate during the day so there will then be less to void at night.

From your voids and urine color, sounds like you might be a bit dehydrated. As to Avodart, really don't see the point given you're handling things with the catheter when you need to. How did the wife let that one by

-- Jim

PS I cathed yesterday and today (about eight times) for the first time in months. I didn't need to, but I am testing a used bladder scan unit to see how accurate it is. I was curious how it would feel after being off the cath for so long. Went through the sphincters like a piece of cake but I did feel a slight stinging in the urethra (possibly from the providone iodine) and feel a slight soreness afterwards. I guess my "battle hardened" urethra softened up some these past few months. Decided to take a single dose of antibiotic prophalactively, as I have always been suspecible to UTIs from urethral trauma.

Jim

Neil,

WHOOPS. That's Hydrochlorothiazide, not how I spelled it in the previous posts. There are diuretics and there are diuretics, but this particular one supposedly is low in the side effects department.

Hi Jim,

So how did the scan readout compare with your PVR? Last week when the continence nurse was here I had 2 catheters set to go side by side and did the 2 right after each with only seconds in between. The second one took nothing out but the scan a minute later still showed 70ml in the trigone region.

I have been worried about getting off Avodart after all these years as I have heard awful stoires about men who stopped it and then a few months later had their prostates double in size. But I want to try to wean myself off gradually starting now. The side effects have been devastating.

I'll look into hydrochlorized more carefully.

Thanks.

Neil

I'm curious how well your bladder tone retained its resiliency after 3 months of no CIC? Did it regress at all as indicated by your PVR?

 Hi Neil,

Could you go over your testing in a little more detail? I'm def in test mode with this thing  

I would say my testing so far is inconclusive. Seems Okay on the smaller volumes (200 and below) which in of itself is quite useful because I can tell when I’m empty or close to it. Not so good on a full bladder and in fact seems off by 50%, so a 400ml bladder only shows 200ml. Could be several reasons for this including the fact that this is an older unit and may be malfunctioning or just not up to my bladder which is a bit irregular in shape.  The other reasons are fairly technical but I’d be happy to share them if you’re interested. I got a good price on this unit, so in spite of the significant inaccuracies at higher volumes, as long as it tells me that I’m empty or near empty, it serves an important purpose. 

That's "Hydrochlorothiazide". If you tell your wife you're thinking of getting hydrochlorizided she  might give you a funny look

Jim

Neil,

Bladder tone is still OK. Did I regress? Possibly a little but not enough to warrant any change. I don't necessarily empty below 100 the first time on a full bladder, but probably get below 50 at least a couple of times a day which my old uro said is all I need. Also still have very good NV's, with 250 ml the most common, but every couple of days hit a 400ml NV! This and no urgency and/or very small voids like I had before. I'd still say my IPSS is close to the "mild" score compared to "severe" when I started. Whether or not my bladder will hold up long term without CIC is to be seen. One possiblity are CIC "tune ups" every so often, but I defintely didn't need a tune up now, just doing this to test the scanner unit.

Jim

 

Hi Jim,

Is it possible to have your scanner re-calibrated by the manufacturer? Even though it is an older model these companies often offer this service either by a local rep or sending it to the company in the hope that some day you will upgrade. It sounds like it just needs a tuneup.

Another possibility is to schedule a visit with a continence nurse and cross calibrate yours with hers ( or take it to your uro's office ).

I was wondering about your bladder tone because the original cause of the obstruction is still there so if you back off from CIC it will just be a matter of time until the tone you worked so hard to restore starts to weaken again. I'm in no position to be giving advice but if I ever am fortunate enough to duplicate your success I would rather deal with chronic colonization than risk losing bladder function again. It is not a given that the whole thing repeats exactly like the first time - i.e. it might be harder to restore function the second time due to many factors.

When my continence nurse was here I did a double cath just to make sure there was no residual urine before she scanned me and found' the usual 70ml.

Cartoonman's note was interesting. Here he has succeeded in restoring his bladder to normal size using CIC and now his smaller but normal capacity results in his having to get up at night to pee!! Not fair!!

Neil

Neil,

You would think so regarding help from the manufacturer's but in fact they tend either to drop the ball entirely on older models or charge very high prices for any repair. Not a surprise, since a single home user like mysef is less than 1% of their market, the bulk being doctors, Rn's like yours and nursing homes. In other words, clients who are used to paying big bucks because they can make money with the machines. There is even one manufacturer that won't talk to you at all once they find out your not a doctor.

That said, I am curious how this compares against other units (probably ones I can't afford however as far as testing it, nothing is as accurate as what I'm doing the past two days with CIC.

BTW, I voided during scanning earlier tonight and was able to observe the emptying sequence of my bladder and diverticulum. They both started around 200ml full but as I voided the bladder emptied down to around 30ml while the diverticulum stayed full.

Then, a few minutes later, I observed the diverticulum start emptying into my bladder. This was very helpful and helped me understand why sometimes I feel a need to void right after I empty my bladder either through NV or even CIC. I had figured it  was either my kidneys unloading or my diverticulum transferring fluid, but now I was able to confirm that at  least part of it is  the diverticulum emptying back into the bladder. It also appeared I could hasten the process if I turned onto my left side, as I have a right sided diverticulum. More interesting than CNN!

As to your thoughts on "matter of time", we're exactly on the same page. My prostate isn't getting smaller, so makes sense that if I stop CIC it's just a matter of time until I go back. However, there is another factor at play and that is bad voiding habits from youth (rushing it and holding it in) versus today where most of the time I heed nature's call and take my time. Think of it like an old car (my bladder). If you baby it, it will outlast a new one that you abuse. Anyway, I feel my bladder functions in many respects about as good as it did thirty years ago, so I figure I have time. Anyway, not about to throw away the catheters and one of the reasons for the scanner was to make sure I caught any significant loss of function early.

Not sure why your nurse found 70ml after your double cath. One of the two is correct of possibly both are a little off. On the nurse's side, her Verathon unit functions "blind" in that you don't see a real time ultrasound image therefore maybe her unit needs calibration or the 70ml is within the plus or minus 10ml (and I think plus) 10% acceptable range. That range btw was established using the scanner on what they call a "phantom bladder" which is basically a round piece of rubber filled with fluid. An actual bladder may not be as symettrical plus most scanners are more accurate (except mine at larger volumes. So there's that plus you might have missed some with your catheter in a nook or cranny.

One the "advantages", if you want to call it that, of an atonic bladder is that you can sometimes go for long period of time without having to void. However, this can be a short lived benefit until things really go South. Better Cartoonman gets up an extra time at night rather than further destroy his bladder.

-- Jim

Neil,

Forgot to add that the stinging and soreness went away even though I cathed twice tonight checking the scanner. Either my urethra adjusted very quickly, or as likely it was the providone iodine that was the irritant. When I swtiched to a different anti microbial spray there was zero irritation and soreness. 

Jim

Hi Jim,

You must have 4 hands to accomplish all that!!

What about doing your own calibration using water filled balloons like we used to drop from windows during colege days? Then you would know how much water is in it and where. Also you could get a larger balloon and tie it off at some point to simulate the diverticulum with a small opening to the main "bladder" for communication. You could place the balloon on a soft cushion so it doesn't spread out. Then scan away with your device. Just a thought.

I initially used the microbial spray but found it highly irritating to my skin so I switched to the small sterile towelettes that a swipe across and around the penis head just before the dive bomb show starts - works great.

Take care

Neil

Hi Neil,

It was actually pretty easy. Did it lying down, holding a proper urinal between my legs, with the scanner screen propped up right in front of me. One hand did the scan and screen adjustments, the other periodically checked to make the urinal was in place.

They actually sell what are called "phantom bladders" to calibrate these things although some units (such as Verathon) need more calibration than others. Unfortunately the phantom bladders are pricey, and sending it in for calibration also pricey, although I just found a fellow who seems reasonable. 

But yes, I've seen articles on how to make a do-it-yourself phantom, just not sure how much I'd trust it. 

Last night and this morning I got some pretty accurate results so either I'm getting better or more likely it just works better at lower volumes. But a I mentioned earlier, that might be OK, because I can naturally void down to the lower volumes and then use the scanner to make sure I'm empty or close to it. That's really all I need it for. 

Are you using the BZK towlettes? Those are the only ones that don't irritate me (no alcohol) but sometimes they aren't that moist and I have to use several. Which anti-microbial spray did you try? I've used Microcyn/Vertericyn/Hydrocleanse/Puracyn (all similar) and have zero irritation but not 100% convinced they are as effective as some of the others. Well, we'll see, since I used Vetericyn last night and this morning!

-- Jim

Jim, on top of eveything your posts are such a good reading! I had a lot of fun

reading this one, aside from its being helpful in diverticulum problems.

It makes me smile and forget about the gloomy side of all this! Thanks, Zdz

Hi Jim,

I tried the Vetericyn spray but it irritated the skin so I switched to Dynarex Obstetrical towelettes a long time ago and they work great.

Neil

Are they moist? Did you try Dynarex antiseptic wipes? Funny about Vetericyn being an irritant to some and not to others. I remember someone posting somewhere that they used alcohol pads. I tried it once and let's just say never tried them again. Different wipes for different folks I guess! Going to order something different soon while I'm in scanner calibrating mode!

-- Jim

ZD,

Honestly, if anyone told me even ten years ago, that I would be lying down in the livingroom, staring at a screen, and watching my diverticulum empty as I voided into a urinal, I would tell them they were crazy! Instead of avoiding, sometimes you have to embrace the gloomy to see it's funny side.

In case you missed it, and if you really want to be inspired by someone who overcame a lot of diversity, watch the 2011 French comedy/drama "The Untouchables". Besides being a great film, it put some things into perspective for me. 

Jim

 

No - just these -really cheap by the gross from amazon and they work so well. They are moist - just the right amount. I highly recommend them.

I was wondering if you are awakened at night to pee? If so after your NV have you measured your CV? Nightime is when I turn into peezilla but if you just went by my daytime voids ( 6 am to midnight) I almost seem normal.

Take care

Neil

Neil,

Per my recently acquired scanner knowledge of bladder/diverticulum mechanics, my strategy last night was to sleep on my right side so that my bladder would empty into my right-sided bladder diverticulum instead of filling up and therefore waking me up.

So when I slept like a log until 5am, I felt pretty proud of myself!  And half asleep as I was, stumbled over to the bladder scanner to confirm that my right sided sleeping strategy worked. Given my theory, I was pretty sure that I was going to find 400ml or more in my diverticulum with under 200ml in my bladder. 

But alas, no more than 300ml total in both bladder and diverticulum and evenly distributed at that. So, while I would have liked to take credit for my full night's sleep, the truth is the credit probably goes to potato chips !!

See, late last night, probably from all the scanner stress , I ate a large bag of chips. And since I'm sensitive to sodium to start with, the chips probably translated into more fluid retention and therefore a smaller overnight void volume.  Not sure which side I will sleep on tonight or how I will deal with my recent potato chip craving.

But to the specifics of your question, I first measured both volumes (bladder and diverticulum) with the scanner (300 total evenly distributed), then did a 250ml NV, then measured volumes with the scanner again (50ml mostly in the diverticulum), then did CIC (50ml), then measured again with the scanner (showed empty). 

I believe my NV was 250, and the scanner showed 50ml left, mostly in the diverticulum. I then cathed out 50ml which confirmed the scanner's accuracy, and then double checked the scanner again which showed both tanks practically empty.

So basically, the numbers and scanner worked out exactly as they should have and I went back to sleep!

PS I found someone who will rebuild the scanner probe, just have to see if it's really necessary as it seems to work very well at the lower important volumes. I guess the gadget freak part of me would like it working like a champ at the higher volumes, but frankly if I have to start measuring 400ml plus volumes in my bladder after a NV,  then I have more pressing problems than just my scanner!

-- Jim

Really interesting stuff!

When you say you "stumbled over to your bladder scanner" to measure volumes did you remain on your right side the whole time because any movement to the left could easily have redistributed fluids from your pocket.?

During your 3 months hiatus from CIC then what were your nights like in terms of numbers and amounts of voids?

How mnay teaspoons of salt would you guess were in that bag of chips? I can dissolve a tablespoon of salt in 50ml of heated water which I can then drink just before bed. Not as much fun but less fattening.

I seemed to recall that you once wrote your diverticula cleared up over the years of CIC - no?

I think one of the great things about this forum is that we get exposed to tons of new information we would never learn about otherwise and then we can experiment for ourselves to find out what works best for each of us. It is fascinating to see how similar and yet different we all are!

Good luck tonight.

Neil

Neil,

In no particular order...

Better to stumble over TO the bladder scanner than to stumble OVER the bladder scanner which is always a possiblity when walking with a hard lean to the right in low light conditions.

During the three month hiatus, I would get up 0-3 times per night,

mostly 1-2 times. It was dependent on the usual suspects as well as what time I retired. My NVs were pretty good (250 mean) so the nocturia was primarily caused by excessive night time urination as opposed to bph.

Well, I thought it shrank and my uro agreed but this was based on in office bladder scans almost always taken post void in the morning when it was very small. However, a couple of quality days with my new scanner shows that it still fills up more or less equally with the bladder and empties last. When full later in the day, I estimated it filled to 200ml a couple of times. Before CIC, I was told it was 300ml but not sure if the difference is actual diverticulum size or diverticulum fluid volume. It was on my list of questions to ask the guy who did my cystoscopy but he was in and out of the room almost as fast as I can self cath so I found myself asking questions to an empty room. Size aside, as long as it empties out completely at least once a day, that's the important thing. I'll admit I've been curious to see if my voiding would improve even more if I had the diverticulum removed, however it could go the other way since I still have obstruction. So better leave well enough alone plus removing the diverticulum apparently is not as minor a procedure as you would think.

I will scan the chips tonight and compare it to a scan of a tablespoon of salt. However, not sure it's a good idea trading a good night's sleep for blood pressure and heart problems!

-- Jim

 

Hi Jim,

You wrote that during the 3 months your NVs were about 250ml so you concluded it was nocturia dn not the bph. But how do you know what your PVR was at that time? It could have been significant.

Just now before bed my NV was 250ml but my PVR was a whopping 400ml under high pressure. This is disturbing as it usually is under 200ml before bed.

I wonder if the older astronauts who lived in the space station for extended time periods suffered from nocturia in zero gravity if they had it on earth before leaving? If zero g made no difference then that could eliminate fluid redistribution when we lie down at night and maybe just blame it on ADH and aging.

Also I was thinking of getting an inversion board and sleeping upright while strapped to it. Could make for some interesting experiments!

Have a good night.

Neil

Neil,

PVR low both before and after 3 month period so fair to assume it was low in-between and not significant. That plus bathroom trip frequency the same before, during and after 3 month period. That said, I’m sure if I had a 20 year old’s bladder I could skip a bathroom trip or two, but the fact remains my kidneys produce a disproportionate amount of urine at night versus during the day. 

Regarding your PVR, would not be overly concerned about daily variances, but, hey, maybe it's time you think about getting a bladder scanner so you won't have to guess! 

Maybe try hooking up a motor to the inversion board and have it spin during your sleep. 

Jim

Right O! Agree about the film! I also see the funny side of all this, only

no more sex life is sad...In my situation there is no cure for that because I feel sore all the time there...

Really strange stuff - last night I did cath at 11 pm with 400ml CV and 200ml NV. Then awoke at 2 am with 600ml CV and 100ml NV. Then awoke again at 6 am with 100ml NV and 500ml. Maybe all this talk about CIC is having a psycological effect! Time to focus on something else!

Sounds like you're retaining more than we're talking about But seriously, there seems to be some more retention, but the pattern isn't significantly different from before. So many variables at play. Maybe throw in an extra cath and tell the bladder who's boss!

Jim

I have this kind of surprises all the time...

Neil, a friend of mine, who doesn't like going to doctors told me that he uses betasitosterol, that he got from the Vitamin Shop.  He takes 4 capsules a day, and within  4 days, his night time visits to the toilet dropped from getting up every hour to 1 to 2 times a night.  It's the regular Vitamin Shop brand, nothing fancy.  Pretty cheap stuff.

Neil,  I was on Avodart for years.  I am now off of Avodart, and I can't feel any difference in my urination.

Hi Dennis,

Good to hear from you - I've been meaning to write you but you beat me to it!

Did you stop Avodart cold turkey? Was it after you started CIC?

I cannot belive 3 seconds!! It still takes me about 30 seconds to reach the prostate and then another 60sec to get through it! I cath4 times a day now though 3 of them are between 11 pm and 7 am when my pvrs are high at 400 to 600ml. During the day it is ok. How often do you do it?

I've never heard of that supplement but will look into it.

I have had the problem you mention where I cannot get in at all. Usually it is because I am stressesd over something or having been sitting a lot or just had a tough poop. I use jimjames' idea to just say outloud "relax, relax" a few times amd sometimes that works.

I have an appointment the end of this month with a VIR who specializes in infertility treatment for men. He seals off varicoceles which is the basis for the Gat Goren "cure " for BPH. I know many men that have in fact been cured of BPG with this treatment. I will have a scrotal ultrasound to confirm varicoceles and then try and convince him to do GG on me. If it looks possible I will start a new thread about GG.

Take care.

Neil

I forgot how long after doing CIC,that I quit Avodart and Doxazosin.  Now, I am not on any kind of medication, just plain CIC. So far, all is the same.  I can CIC with little effort, no pain or discomfort.It's been a little over 6 months that I have been doing CIC. My Nv, is not good, maybe 100ML.  I keep hoping and trying to improve my condition.  I CIC usually around three times a day. Once in the morning, another around 1:00PM, then the last one for the day around 5:30PM. I try and drink a lot of liquids in the morning. A large cup of coffee, followed by a large cup of green tea or watermelon seed tea. After a few hours, I go and self-catheter, usually arounds 300 to 400 ML at this point. I don't have to tell you how great it feels to have an empty bladder, which usually last for around 3 to 4 hours, before I have to self-cath again. Like you, I am hoping for one day to be like JimJames' bladder. It will be great, when I can go for weeks without cathing, and do it just to "tune-up" by condition. You might want to try betasitosterol. Go to The Vitamin Shop, I think it runs around $8.00 for 60 capsules. Very inexpensive, and works wonders for some, such as my friend, who had results after using it for only 4 days.

Hi Dennis - so why do you not cath before bedtime? Do you sleep through the night ok?

That would be a better routine, but I don't cath before bed, is because I do so at around 5:30 PM every afternoon, before going to dinner. My wife, and I go out almost every night for dinner  We don't eat dinner at home, so I want to go out and have an empty bladder, not having to worry about using a restroom at the restaurant. When we get home from the restaurant, my bladder is still calm.

Hi Dennis,

Is your 300 to 400ml cath volume the morning one? What are your average cath volumes for 1 PM and 5:30PM?  Are you keeping your total volumes (NV plus cath volume) below 400ml? What kind of results ar you getting from betasitosterol? Have you found the watermelon seed tea helping? Surfski's are those long and thin sit-on-top kayaks the lifeguards used to use in Baywatch. 

I'm over three months now and still haven't had the need to cath. Even the occasional "lock ups" that I would have to walk off have stopped. Wish I could figure out why sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. I know it's related to bladder volume but at times I have voided 400ml with no difficulty. So I think flares of prostatitis inflammation may be playing a part. Would like to work on that but prostatitis seems to be harder to nail than bph!

Glad CIC is working out so well for you!  I think most people cringe when they read about CIC, and I can understand that. And yet, after my "break in period" (and I read here that many don't even need that) I have found it about as painful and stressing as brushing my teeth. 

A couple of week ago, I self cathed maybe a dozen times or so over a two day period, not because I had to but because I was calibrating a bladder scanner I bought. The first few times it stung a little and I figured that's normal because I hadn't cathed for months and my tissue probably needed to adjust again. Turns out that it was the Providone Iodine antiseptic that was stinging me! As soon as I switched to another antiseptic, zero stinging or pain. So, I guess it's like once you break it in, it stays that way, which is nice to know since for now at least my CIC's are far apart. 

Jim

Jim,  In the mornings, my cic volume is around the 300 to 400 ML range. I rarely go over 400. The rest of the day is around 150 to 300.  I don't keep track of my NV because it's very low.  I would guess around 50 to 100 ML.  Without the catheters, I would be going to the restroom every 15 minutes, if my bladder was full.  When I do cath, I won't have to use the restroom for several hours! Today, I'm going to go with some friends in a Cessna, so I plan to cath around 9:00 AM, and that should carry me through 1:00 PM.  In the old days, without cathing, I would be a little anxious, wondering if I could stay up in a plane without having the urge to urinate...with the cathing, it's not a problem.  Someday, I hope to be where you are now...going months without the need to use a catheter.  I hope you are the norm, and not the exception. No, I don't surfski.  I still have my surfboards, and a wave-ski, which is around 8 and  half feet long.  Great for paddling around and catching wavess with.  Once I went out to Rabit Island, which is about a half mile off the coast of Oahu, and paddled around the island.  I forgot to screw on the drain plug, and after a while, I was wondering why the ski, was dragging.  I was half way on the deep side of Rabbit Island, and kept my fingers crossed, that I would make it around to the shallows, so as not to sink!  That was a bit scary! Well, I made it this far 68 years old. Where do you live at?

HI Jim , Where did you buy your bladder scanner? I was thinking this might be a good idea to check how much urine is left after I do CiC.I don't know why i get the urge to pee sometimes 2 hours after CIC. Are they very expensive ? would i be able to tell how much urine is left after CIC?

Thanks, My friend JIm,

frank

Hi Frank,

I bought a used bladder scanner online. New it was around 10K, but by hunting around and swapping some parts I was able to get it for around 1K. There are also some good older re-built Verathon units available for around 2K. The difference between the one I have and the Verathon units is that with my unit I see an actual real time ultrasound picture of the bladder. I prefer this type of unit because my bladder is very irregular as I have a pouch (diverticulum) and would not trust one of the automatic units like Verathon for identifying how much my bladder holds. That said, if you have a normal shaped bladder, and aren't interested in actually seeing the bladder then the Verathon units should be fine, after all they are found in many urologist's office. With those units you point and shoot and you get a digital read out of how many ml is in your bladder. But you don't gett a picture and the unit should be calibrated ever year or so, although since you self cath, you should be able to test the accuracy with some simple math. If you're interested in either the Verathon unit, or a unit like mine, send me a PM and I can give you some more specifics. 

That said, these units are typically used to see how much fluid is in the bladder so that you don't have to self cath when not necessary. That's what I got it for since I don't self cath on a daily or even weekly basis anymore. In other words, I use it as a safety valve to make sure my bladder isn't stretching too much on me when I'm off the catheter. It's also very useful for training an overactive bladder where they don't want you to void until you get a certain amount of fluid in your bladder. Plus they are just very interesting and educational!

In your case, yes, it should show you how much urine is left after CIC, but $1000 is a lot of money to do that when you could cath at your urologists and then ask him to scan you. I could probably do the same thing, but I'm kinda into gadgets plus my whole BPH program has been pretty much DIY for some time now.

Again, if this is something that still interests you, send me a PM.

Jim

Probably should add that there are some newer 3-D units on the market now that seem to combine the best of both worlds.You see the bladder real time but also can go to an "easy" mode for calculation. Prices run from around 6K (use your computer as a screen) to around 12K. If money was no object, I'd get one of those but for 1K I'm happy with what I have.

Jim

Jim, Thanks for that info. Today i will have cath 7 times. Most of the times it's 6 x. I can't figure why i get the urge  2 hours after CIC . This is what makes wonder if i empty bladder after CiC.I 'm still going to see a URO that does Uro Lift. Thanks for the info on a scanner.What do you

by a PM?

Frank

Hi Frank,

A few reasons you might feel like this. First, it's possible you are not emptying completely with CIC but less likely. You could test this yourself by self cathing at the urologist's office and then having him scan you. 

Another reason is your bladder is overactive. You should be able to figure this out with your void logs. When you CIC after 2 hours how much urine comes out?

I said  you could "PM" (send me a private message) if you wanted more specifics about purchasing a scanner, and although while useful, not sure you really need one at this point.

Jim