Selincro/Nalmefene Diary

Spoken like a true professional. It's a shame that we have to meet in these circumstances.

In the mean time, an unexpected challenge has presented itself. The missus has come home with a mixed case for the holiday and bless her she was beaming when she showed me as normally this would get the holiday started a day early. I know that I shouldn't drink without a tablet but I feel odd enough already so instead I'll do some unscientific research in to whether the side effects of selincro are sufficient to dampen ones spirits.

I'll report back with my findings.

What were your findings?

We both like port?

Yes, used to love port and brandy shorts! Tried a small one at Christmas, too nice so not again.

Interesting, that I had little desire to drink and even though a bottle was put in front of me, I only was able to have only half of it and not be bothered.

Good advice for certain. Medication is often the way foward...Robin

Hi Aiencorda,

Selincro is NOT curative on it's own.  They will do not do anything unless he drinks on them as intended.

They should only be taken 1-2 hours prior to drinking and not on other days.  If he takes them without drinking then all he is achieving is blocking endorphins from other activities during the day.

Please read the patient information leaflet that came with the tablets and follow that.  Over 120 clinical trials show that this medication works long term but he MUST take it as instructed.

I have read up on the Sinclair method and read reviews and it does seem to work.I don't know why I'm afraid to let him drink, he wanted drink last night we were at a bday party I didn't agree or disagree but he didn't get any. I think I'm afraid he won't take the tablets and drink. But I think I will have to talk with him and try the Sinclair method. He would take the tablet 1/2 hours before he would normally drink which is late evening, he also smokes weed. So this tablet will not work (as good) or at all, u are better to drink on them only when u feel the need, he would normally drink every 2nd day

The simple way to explain how it works is that when he craves or feels the urge to have a drink, that is when he takes the tablet, waits the time and then has that drink.  The brain is disappoined because it doesn't get the reward reinforcement from it.  Over time, the brain no longer associates alcohol = reward and cravings naturally lessen as a result of that.

If he tries to deprive himself, then he is falling into the trap of what is called the Alcohol Deprivation Effect.  This basically means that the longer he deprives himself, the more the cravings actually increase with time, until such point as he does end up relapsing uncontrollably.

The basic thing is whilst he is sober, that is brilliant, but he should NOT be taking the tablet until he gets a craving/urge to drink.  That is when The SInclair Method is used.

When not drinking, a person is free to enjoy good and rewarding endorphins from other activities.  When drinking, the endorphins are blocked.  This targetting of drinking endorphins only means that the brain soon learns to want what is rewarding, and moves away from craving what is not rewarding (drinking).

Thanks, will show him this and do it this way, I suppose apart of me is just paronaide, I can see the last 2days he has struggled abit and just feel he needs to also make changes get up and do more activities etc just slowly start changing his routine but feel the weed/himself is not leting himself do this also im sure the silincro tabs are making him abit of form to, but its early days and fingers crossed itl work out,

seems great what you are doing. reducing by 50% is amazing. Well done. Robin

Hi Notsofast,

Selincro should be taken 1-2 hours before a drink, EVERY time you drink.  They will not work long term otherwise.  It's as simple as that! 

Any side effects lessen each time you take a tablet, then you can settle into the treatment quite easily.

You paid a lot of money for these tablets and you are going to waste your money if you do not take them as described in the patient information leafet. 

Hi Joanna,

Yes I've read the Eskapa book and I know that you are quite correct, however I'm happy just to go to bed sober for the moment. My first target is a full week off the wine which I've not done for about 20 years. 4 days is usually as far as I can get. I'd really like to see if I can do 4 weeks of abstinence and these tablets are giving me a realistic prospect of that.

Part of me would like to think that I'm just a middle class p*ss artist with a bad habit, and that if my routine...the 8pm bewitching hour followed by a march to the shop and the pop of a cork...can be broken for a time, then that will be problem solved.

I may well be overestimating myself of course in, which case...well, there are plenty more tablets where these ones came from and I'll have to quiver in bed for a week, but then at least I'll know my situation.

 

Being sober is wonderful as long as you are not having to white-knuckle it, but whilst you are not craving, please DO NOT take the Selincro.

All it is doing is blocking you feeling endorphins whilst you are sober.  What is the point in that?  Whilst you are sober, you want to be free to enjoy the fresh air, a spicy meal, a bit of exercise etc etc.

Keep the Selincro to one side and IF you start to crave a drink, take the tablet, wait 1-2 hours, and then take the drink.  That way, your brain gets maximum benefit of targeting the endorphins that drinking causes.

 

How are things going with staying off or with your tablets?

at least you are being honest with yourself and this shows strength!! well done and keep trying...Robin

Hmm, succumbed on Monday and tonight due to social occasions.

I have a challenge on Friday however, I'm going to have my tablet and drive to a social event (which previously would have been a complete non-starter) and then the calendar is clear for the following week so that will be my first week off.

Ultimately I'm just going to have to bite the bullet...take one in the week and see how I feel at work because I don't seem to get much sleep on them...more of a broken doze than sleep. I've never lost a days work in all the years due to the sauce so wouldn't that be ironic.

To be honest even though i have been off drink for 6 days now, i almost gave in...then i just happened to go on to the forum and read an older listing from about a year ago and some of it was so sad and it did put me off. Thank God. I have been reading the Allen Carr book which teaches you to see drink in a different way and comes with a hypnosis cd, it has worked so far for me but today i was just lonley and stressed. 

I know your finding it hard with the tablets, would you maybe not be better seeing the doctor if you think they effect your sleep that much. At the end of the day being tired and worried about work is likely to make you want to drink more i would have thought. There are some guys on the forum who know a lot about the different types and maybe could talk you through options. Hard too when you have social things where everyone else is prob drinking. Talking of sleep im writing this at 2 in the morning and didnt sleep last night. Got a little this morning. But not much. Its amazing i got so much done today. Try not to stress too much and see if there is anything else that might be for you...just a thought. You should try reading that book by the way that i mentioned it might help mentally.. Good luck!

 

I'll give the Allen Carr boook a go. 6 days you did well, were you able to continue it?

I don't get lonely or stressed, I just really like it which I suppose is the problem. Have a good opportunity at the end of the month to get on the tablets properly so I'll try that.

Hi joanna

as you know I'm on the campral side. Two tablets (not now a few years ago) three times a day and no alcohol or cravings, easy instructions and effective.

Now I'm getting confused about selincro, not that I want to take it, just interested in how it works. I was under the impression that you only took it if you intended having a drink, waited for 1 - 2 hours after taking it before your drink

so what's this taking it on a Friday, and it lasting over the weekend. Again I thought it only lasted for about 8 hours?

Then there seems to be people taking it and not having a drink at all, what's the point of doing that? It's not an anti craving drug is it? Think I'm loosing the plot here. Some seem to take it and drink 5 mins later, and some seem to take it daily and not drink at all!!!

You are correct, Vickylou.  Selincro should be taken 1-2 hours (2 hours preferably) prior to drinking, every time someone drinks, and full blockage of the opioid receptors lasts about 8 hours.  I've actually mentioned this a couple of times on this thread already.  Side effects may be rough for some in the beginning, but they do reduce over time.

Messing with the way it should be taken means that the tablet is not going to work as intended.  Simple as that.  Due to upregulation of receptors in the brain, taking it sometimes prior to drinking and not others means that it will actually cause urges to drink to get worse - it's going to make the long term problem worse, not better.  Taking it and then not drinking is just a waste of the tablet as it is not curative on it's own.

That is the bottom line, and is the result of over 20 years of research and clinical testing.

Joanna

Thank you for comfirmation that I'm not as gaga as I thought.

Your explanation is exactly what I thought, but as there seem to be so many people deviating from taking it correctly, it did make me question whether I was right or wrong.

These tablets are not like smarties to mess about with and eat when you want. I've quickly scanned the patient info leaflet and it couldn't be clearer on  how to take it and when.

I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would take it when they're not drinking, or intending to drink. No wonder people say it doesn't work, it's because they can't follow simple instructions.

I think somewhere I've read of or heard somewhere, where the patient wanted a drink, had taken the tablet, but his partner wouldn't let him! She's doing him far more harm than good, simply by not following the information leaflet. No wonder some people say it doesn't work properly.

Its a bit like that with campral, should be six tablets daily. Then someone will say it doesn't work and then it transpires they were only taking two daily because they kept forgetting.

People can do and take what they like with their medication, it's up to them, but dont blame the medication and put genuine people off taking it, simply because they don't seem to be able to understand or follow plain instructions.

Rant over. Sorry Joanna, obviously i wasn't getting at you

Oh, I agree with you a million percent! 

We have come across so many who have had it prescribed to them by a doctor who informed them incorrectly so... to allow for the fact that many doctors don't have a clue and it's not the users fault,  here is the view I take:  like everyone else here, I will do my best to make suggestions, provide information, and support.  At that point, if they want any further help then I will provide it the best I can, but at least they have been pointed in the direction of the most accurate information.

But once I have provided the relevant information, I won't go out of my way to provide it again.  We can help someone with their drinking issues, but ultimately it is up to the individual to put the work in.  No matter what method someone follows, they ALL take effort and work and commitment.  In the terms of medications (especially Selincro), that might be struggling through a bit of short-term discomfort of side effects. I know they can be rough, as I have taken it, but I am also sure that no-one relishes the side effects of chemotherapy.  But they will go along with it, and struggle through it, because it is temporary and is hopefully saving their lives.  Short term discomfort for what is indicated to be a long term gain.

The only time I will tend to repeat myself is if I think that someone else may read a thread and pick up misinformation from it.  I specifically didn't reply on this thread until you asked me because I know that I have already given the information, the OP has acknowledged that they have read into it all and understand how it should work, but he thinks he will be different somehow.

What many don't realise is that the initial lessening of any desire to drink for a few days after a tablet is mostly down to side effects.  It's not a curative element of the Selincro.

But yes, it is incredibly frustrating, isn't it?  We know these medications have an amazingly high success rate when used correctly.  To have to sit by and watch others struggle, and even having to sit by and watch knowing that they are likely making their situation worse, is not nice.

That is why I don't tend to re-reply to people if they are not following the prescribing method for the medication they are on.  They have the information because we have provided them with it - what they do with that information is up to them.  I (we) want to help people get better, and it's not nice to be reading about people struggling, or hoping for something out of a medication that we know they are not going to get - at least not long-term anyway.

Edit:

I meant to say that I won't go out of my way to provide the same information to the same individual again.

Sorry about that.

'the OP has acknowledged that they have read into it all and understand how it should work, but he thinks he will be different somehow.'

If I get someone who will not listen and they know best, I just tap the 'unfollow this discussion' button at the top, so I don't get anymore update notifications.

Good point.

Though on the other hand, then I would probably not have seen Vickylou's response.  Or, maybe anyone else who might've posted to say 'is this right?'

Plus, there may come a time when someone starts to work at doing it how it should be done, and then I am (as always) ready, willing and able to help if they want it.  It's a bit like a doctor is supposed to follow - do no harm.  I don't want to be party to harming someone, or encourage them to continue on a path which, in all my experience of this method now, simply will not work.  I would rather just stay quiet and then be here if they need me later.

)

If I get someone who will not listen and they know best, I just tap the 'unfollow this discussion' button at the top, so I don't get anymore update notifications.

Oh you do make me laugh and I don't mean that in a negative way. Short  sharp don't mince words and say it as it is way. I gather you don't take fools gladly?

https://patient.info/forums/discuss/selincro-nalmefene-diary-584804?page=0&utm_source=forum&utm_campaign=comment-notification&utm_medium=email#

I 

No idea what happened there, apart from loosing all my typing in a puff of smoke!!!

Surely if someone can't follow simple directions/instructions about how to take their medication, should they be left in charge of taki

There are people in this world who don't pick things up quite as quickly as others. They need more help.

There are those that know best and therefore are best left to get on with it.

Of course people pick things up quicker than others. If you're told to take six tablets daily and you decide to only take two, whose to say the next day you take 8.

my daughter is the registered manager of a residential care home for people with mental health problems. She decided to try a new system of letting l

some of the service users take responsibility for their medication (obviously not controlled drugs), but after spending hours in A&E with some of them, the trial was soon abandoned.

I merely wanted to ensure that I had researched TSM properly and that my understanding of how it works was correct. Nothing more than that.

The campral way to me is more clear cut, take the tablets correctly and the success rate is quite high.

May I ask you one last,question. You may or may not wish to answer it. Now you've stopped taking campral, do you ever miss going to your local (I remember you saying once its right next door) having a few pints, going back home and thinking I could manage another couple of pints, or share a bottle of wine?

My main reason for asking this is because my insomnia is doing my head in, despite 5 to 10mg of nitrazapam at night. I know the tablets are no longer working, as I'm sure (well i know I need more for them to work now) and that's a route I'm not going down. My gp won't prescribe anything else, in which case I want to stop taking them.

Ive worked out a schedule of tapering down with them, together with my gp. If all goes to plan,in six weeks I should be free of them.

I lasted until about 2.30am Saturday morning wide awake, got up went downstairs got some hot milk, then like a prat added a good slug of brandy which unfortunately worked and I slept for three hours, a miracle.

Felt like doing the same Sunday 4.00am with no sleep. I settled for just milk and left the brandy out. I can't go down that route again. So I've had just three hours sleep since Saturday. It's not worth going to bed to just lie there, but I've got the grandsons today and tonight.

Been for a run first thing, eating well, scratch cooking, loads of exercise, gym, workout, kickboxing. Tried hot stone massage which a friend recommended. So, the only thing that worked was brandy.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'm willing to give anything a go except alcohol .

Many thanks.

one more question, what is the difference between AUD and kindling , or are they the same, but just different names?

A blearey eyed Good Morning vicks.  Snap snap snap - same amount of sleep - I went at 9.30pm last night read till 10.00 then lights out - lasted till 12.00 then bam that was it.

My doc has given me Zoplicone to take one when really needed.  Not taken any  as 1.  It says no alcohol and 2.  I honestly don't think they would work - it is too long standing.  It has never been temporary. 

I am the same with the running and exercise and weights but nothing knocks me out like alcohol.  Don't know where we get the energy from actually.  I have just put my trainers on for a run but I am so knackered, I may just go for a ride on my bike - easier.

I look forward to any replies you get, I am also willing to give anything a go and my goal would be 2 small glasses 7 nights a week, not 5.

14 units a week would do me nicely.

Great day for you tho, I love having little ones staying and especially overnight.  Enjoy and keep on fighting x

Hiya Gwen 

I'm blaming it on lack of sleep, but don't think it makes any difference. I was texting a friend and the 8 year old said "grandma shall I teach you how to text properly, cos you are taking ages and it doesn't say very much either. Don't you know what emojis are"? no idea what he was on about, OH piped up and said dont confuse her, she can only do smilie faces haha!

Yea I'd rather be awake all night than go down the brandy and hot milk route. I do prefer cider now to wine, but a decent one, not white lightening, although I've drunk that years ago.

i am frantically trying to pack to go away on Saturday. I always flat pack my summer clothes and have spent the last two days trying to find two boxes. In the end I asked my dear husband if he'd seen them. Am still gobsmacked by his reply " do they look like the boxes you told me to take to the charity shop (oh yes, he's a younger version of Victor Meldrew!), I honestly thought he was joking, until he said the ladies at the shop thought they were too good for the shop, so they were having first choice, yes I bxxxxy bet they were. I just can't believe he didn't notice they were mine!, unbelievable.  It's backfired on him as he'll have to cancel his golf to take me shopping ! Will pm you later, got to go and feed the ducks now

laters huni got to work out how to put pushchair up first