Severely disabled but Universal credit expect me to live on £233 a month!

Hi Denise,

Thanks for your reply. I found my post difficult to write as the spellchecker doesnt work, it gives no suggestions of words and it either doesnt start sentences with a capital or does but then stays in capitals. Never known a keyboard like it!

Yes im on contribution ESA i think, not sure what that means though. i used to be on income support but then it was changed to ESA. I live in sheltered housing so social housing. My journal says my housing element is £442 and after i asked them to pay my rent direct their first message under Housing Changes said they will pay my landlord £442 but then someone wrote they will pay £232 but i must pay the difference of £210 myself. This leaves me just £233 from my ESA and my household bills are double that.

i have applied for PIP twice, did the mandatory reconsideration the first time but was still refused. The process made me so ill i was unable to take it to a tribunal. The second time was just recently and i was struggling to deal with what was happening with UC and couldnt do the mandatory reconsideration as well. I'm severely mentally impaired and finding it all very difficult.

At first my journal messages received replies but apart from the one asking them to pay my rent direct all the other ones are ignored. I posted one saying an agent has written i moved on 19th July when i moved on 26th June but this too was ignored.

I emailed a debt advisor who has visited me twice, the 2nd time she rang UC on my behalf but they told her my payments of £232 are correct and she said theres nothing more she can do to help. Going to CAB is very difficult, i've been agoraphobic for 40 years so only go out when im forced...for hospital/Drs/dentist appointments and these are extremely stressful. The one time i did manage to go to CAB, about something else they had no advisors so couldnt help me.

The second time i applied for PIP a DWP woman came and helped with the form but it was still refused. The debt advisor wants to help me apply again in January as she said i should be on it.

UC told me to get a fitnote from my GP saying i should then get a disability premium. She said she would ring me back in a week but she didnt ring. I got the fitnote, it says i am unable to work and do not need to be assessed again. I posted a message in my journal asking the woman to call me back as i want to discuss the disability premium further but this was ignored too. I read to get the premium you have to be on DLA/PIP so i think she was wrong in saying i would get it?

All i can say about UC is there's no disability premiums paid. You definitely read wrong about needing to be claiming DLA/PIP. Either one of those awards will have to affect on a UC claim.

If you're still claiming ESA then you don't need a fit/sick note from your GP.

What i do advise is though that you really shouldn't re-apply again for PIP. You need to ask the MR of your most recent decision, then Tribunal if that fails. This is your best chance of having a decision in your favour. Re-applying again in January is not your answer because they'll simply refuse you yet again.

I'm so confused, yes i am still claiming ESA so if i dont need a fitnote then why did the UC woman tell me to get one? Ive never had a fitnote before in my life but she said if i got it i would probably then get the disability premium. Did she mean i would get it added to my ESA if UC dont pay disability premiums? But then the amount would just be deducted from my UC payment surely?

UC say they are paying my housing costs but theyre not. How can they say my UC housing element is £442 when i only receive £232? And how can they expect me to pay £210 of my ESA to my landlord when it only leaves me with £233 to live on?

As for PIP, its too late to do the MR as i was refused over a month ago. I intended doing it but i had too much else going on that took all my strength and energy (UC plus several other unrelated things ive had to deal with). Plus im not sleeping as im so worried about not being able to pay my bills. I used most of my savings to clear my rent arrears, they built up because UC took so long to pay me so i now have very little to fall back on.

When i claimed housing costs the last thing i expected was to have my ESA reduced and then be told i must use almost half of it towards my rent. Theyre forcing me to choose between paying my rent, paying my bills or having money for food. How can this be right?

First of all you need to find out if your ESA is Income related or contributions based. If you were previously claiming Income support then it can't be contributions based it must be income related. If it's income related then this should have stopped when you claimed UC.

At the moment your ESA is being deducted from your UC. When you claimed UC they should have honoured your ESA award and placed you into the relevant group for UC.

Forget about the premiums for UC because they simply don't exist, never have and never will.

For your PIP you're not too late to request the MR. You do in fact have 13 months to request this, with good reason. If you request the MR and DWP don't accept the reason they will just keep the decision the same and send you a decision letter. Makes no different anyway because most MR decisions remain the same. You'll need this decision letter to request the Tribunal. I advise you to request MR then Tribunal first, don't re-apply again.

I'm not really sure where you're getting your advice from but so much of it is wrong, i'm afraid.

Your whole situtation is far too complex for an internet forum. because there's only so much advice you can give this way. You really do need face to face advice. Do you have anyone that can take you for this advice? a family member or a friend?

Good luck.

Just checked my benefit letter and it says its contribution based. I have no understanding of it though...it says my living expenses are £0.00! Then it says extra money because youre in the support group £37.65 which gives you a total income related amount £37.65. Then it says no income will be taken off your ESA. Your income related amount is £37.65 less £0.00 so you would have been entitled to £37.65. then it says However because you are entitled to contribution based ESA we will pay you £110.75. The amounts on this page apply from 17th July 2018 to 27th November.

17th July is my UC claim date. But i didnt receive this benefit letter until 8th November so does this mean i have been paid more and will have to pay it back? My fortnightly ESA payments had been £254 until November.

Yes that's contributions based but you were claiming the income related top up on that because £254 a fortnight is the Enhanced disability premium added on top. So, £16.40 per week will be deducted from your UC. As you've been receiving less UC than what you're supposed to be receiving that will be the reason why.

You don't need to send fit notes into the job centre because you're already claiming ESA and you're in the support Group. Contributions based ESA is not part of UC. UC is a means tested benefit and contributions based isn't. The only reason you're claiming UC is for the housing element.

Also council tax reduction isn't part of UC, i hope you realised that? You need to claim this from your local council.

Once you start receiving the right amount of ESA £110.75 per week, then your UC should be correct. There's not really going to be much difference really other than your ESA will be less, for your UC to be more.

As for the PIP please get some advice and request the MR, then Tribunal if that fails and most do. Starting yet another new claim really isn't the answer here.

So what youre saying is both are correct? But how can i be expected to pay £210 of my rent with my ESA? This does not leave enough to cover my household bills never mind all other living expenses!

As for council tax, at first i was told i had to pay almost £30 a month but eventually after many emails i received a letter saying im exempt due to being severely mentally impaired.

I will look again at my last PIP refusal but i think it said i only had a month to do the MR. If this can be extended then i will do the MR but the thought of attending a tribunal terrifies me. But then again so does trying to live on £233 a month.

With hindsight i think i was wrong to clear my rent arrears using my savings. My warden had told me to pay just £13 a week rent when she helped me apply for HB saying this should cover the amount i would have to pay once i receive HB. But HB was refused and waiting for this and then struggling to claim UC instead (this was extremely difficult but my warden wasnt allowed to help me with it) caused a 3 week delay. I asked UC if they would backpay my rent for this 3 weeks but they said my council would deal with it though HB. But i was refused HB so dont understand this.

The rent arrears continued building as UC took 11 weeks to pay my first payment, each week meant another £104.55 rent arrears minus the £13 i was paying.

I contacted my housing association as a red arrears letter said they may be able to help and their debt advisor is visiting me tomorrow.

I'm not sure what you mean by "both are correct" Once your ESA payments are correct then you'll receive £220 every 2 weeks from ESA.

Then you'll have your UC housing element but this payment will be more because they won't taking any money off you for your ESA payment.

I have no idea what your circumstances are, how many bedrooms you're entitled to, how many bedrooms you have in your home, so i can't help with that part.

You talk about savings, did you have more than £6,000 when you first applied for UC? UC is a means tested benefit and savings are counted.

When you moved house as your area was a full UC area then it was correct that you wouldn't have been able to claim housing benefit, it was UC for the housing element. Backdating a UC can only be done in the most extreme circumstances and the maximum time it can be backdated for is 1 month.

Asking for the MR for your PIP, yes it's within 1 month of the date of the decision BUT with good reason like i said you do have 13 months. Most MR decisions remain the same anyway. To constantly start new claims is the worst idea you can have. Always fight the decision with MR then Tribunal if that fails. 71% of those who appear in person have a decision in their favour, the only down side is that waiting times can be very long in some areas. If a decision goes in your favour it will be backdated to the date you applied.

PIP is totally different to what DLA was and it does help to have some understanding of what it's all about. There's plenty of information on the internet about PIP, the descriptors, what they mean ect. I'd advise doing some research, gathering some evidence that supports exactly how your conditions affect you then request the MR in writing. Mention the reasons why you're late making the request, if they refuse then that's fine because you'll be sent the MR refusal letter and this is what you need to request the Tribunal.

I asked UC to pay my rent direct so i wont be receiving any more UC payments, they will pay the £232 to my landlord and i have to pay £210 difference from my ESA. My ESA payments are correct, i received another letter in the post yesterday saying i requested to know how much my ESA is and it confirmed the first letter of £110.75. The strange thing is i didnt request this!

My savings were around £2,000 when i claimed UC. i moved from a 3 bedroom house to a tiny one bedroom bungalow in sheltered housing. I lived for 14 years with an elderly friend who was my carer, he owned his house and his wishes were i stay living in it the rest of my life then it would go to his 3 sons. He became ill almost 5 years ago then developed dementia and i then cared for him. His sons refused to help and when he died in March they went against his wishes and evicted me to sell the house. He hadnt put his wishes in writing as he believed his sons would abide by his wishes and told me many times they would never evict me. I struggled with caring for him, had to fight to try to get his needs met, it was an absolute nightmare. Then went through the nightmare experience of being evicted, ive been agoraphobic 40 years and my home was where i felt safe.

The last thing i expected after moving is to be in a position where i dont receive enough to pay my rent and bills.

I'm sorry to hear you were evicted from your home.

You said in an earlier post that you were receiving £254 a fortnight for your ESA? That will have included the Enhanced disability premium, so they would have been deducting that from your UC. As this extra payment of £16.40 per week on your ESA has now stopped you should be getting more UC.

It's extremely difficult to advise on an internet forum. I have no idea what area you live to be able to work out what your LHA is for your area. Maybe put all your details into a benefits calculator or look on your local councils website to see what the housing allowance is for a 1 bedroom in your area. It's possible that your rent is more than what you're allowed. What ever i suggest i'm purely guessing here.

What you really do need is face to face advice from an advice centre like CAB or welfare rights to check what benefits you should be claiming. Can someone go with you for this?

I wish i could help you more but i've advised you as much as i can, i'm sorry.

Please do consider that MR request for your PIP and then Tribunal if that fails and it most likely will.

Thank you for all your advice. The debt advisor Farrah from my housing association came today and she spoke to UC but failed to get anywhere with them. They said i dont have a work coach, that nothing has been done with my fitnote and that i havent been assessed for capability to work. Farrah said she got quite snotty with her. Same as the one did me when i rang them before.

Farrah said i should be getting over £200 more, i think she meant on my ESA (she didnt have the exact amount with her but said she has it in her office) and shes looking into it for me with the vulnerbility people. She said all the other people on my complex on HB only have to pay £5/£6 on their rent, the rest is paid through HB. She said she will look into this too.

But it got me thinking after she left...HB is being phased out and everyone on it will have to claim UC. Does this mean everyone whose HB covers the majority of their rent will find themselves in the same situation as me..having to find almost half their rent from their pension/benefit? UC can only be claimed online but many people dont own a computer/tablet. When i told my 81 year old neighbour he will have to claim UC instead of getting HB he said he will tell them to get stuffed, what can they do to him at his age. i told him they could evict him and he said he would simply take a bottle of pills and go to sleep.

A very worrying reaction, what is this government doing?

No problem. I won't comment any further to your UC/ESA issues, only to add that you don't need fit notes or a work coach because you're claiming Contributions based ESA and you're in the Support Group.

UC is a working age benefit so people claiming their state pension will not be able to claim UC even for the housing element. No announcements have been made yet as to what happens to those claiming HB and pension. For the moment they will continue to claim HB the same for those claiming HB for the first time, if they claim their pension they will be able to claim HB still.

Thanks for the information about UC being for working age people only, i was able to tell my neighbour he wont have to claim it putting his mind at rest.

Got an email saying to check my UC account, the message was just asking my permission for them to speak to Farrah from my housing association which i gave (again as i gave it yesterday!). In my to do list it says i must provide a fitnote. i sent this to them last week but the xmas post may have held it up. i hope it doesnt get lost in the post. Do you know if id have to get another one if this happens? I did take a photo of it before posting it, would they accept a copy of this?

I know you said i wouldnt need a fitnote because im claiming contribution based ESA and in the support group but they did ask for one. I dont think they even know what theyre doing which gives me little confidence in them. I just want this mess sorting and to receive enough to cover my rent and bills.

Having to send a fit note for UC doesn't make any sense to me because you're claim ESA contributions based in the Support Group. I would also add a note on your journal telling them you're claiming Contributions based ESA and you're in the Support Group.

As they're asking you for a fit note then you'll most likely have a work coach. If this happens there's a chance they'll require you to do some work commitments but this will depend on your work coach. Some lower the amount of hours required, very rarely they turn them off completely. Handing in a fit note means a work capability assessment will be required and you'll eventually be sent the UC50 form (same as ESA50 but different name) Doing it this way will mean your ESA will be deducted £1 for £1 for the UC because you can't claim both. Seems totally pointless to me why they're asking you for a fit note.

Universal credit is a complete nightmare for those with a limited capability for wort and a lot of advisers from DWP don't know what they're doing either because they've had very limited training.

What you really need is advice from someone like CAB or welfare rights near you. These would be the best people to advise you. The person that you seen yesterday seems like she has little knowledge too...

In the meantime for your fit note i'd advise adding a note onto your journal and say you sent it last week.

You are right about UC being a nightmare for those with limited capability for work, one woman i spoke to told me i shouldnt be receiving UC and ESA but she also told me i didnt receive the £561 payment they later asked me to pay back! She obviously hadnt got a clue what she was doing.

Theres absolutely no chance i could work, just going out to the chemist to collect my ADHD meds is extremely stressful but my GP said its important i continue collecting them rather than have them delivered otherwise i could end up completely housebound again. If i have to have capability assessment they will send someone out to me, just as they did for my jobcentre interview. This sounds ridiculous, if i cant attend an assessment it goes without saying i cant possibly go out to work!

I left a journal message saying i sent the fitnote last week and im going to see if Farrah can sort it. Im reluctant to ask someone to take me to CAB as when my daughter took me once before i was awake all night worrying about going only to find they had no advisors so it was a waste of time.

This whole situation has left me feeling very stressed, im also dealing with one of my cats being ill the last few weeks, taking him to the vets is really difficult but ive had to and its all taking its toll on my health. I can only deal with so much and feel ive reached my limit.

Good news...UC sent a file saying they owe me £1198 as they hadnt been paying me LCWRA. This is the payment Farrah asked them to investigate so im so glad i contacted her. Its not exactly a windfall as ive paid £1344 from my savings to clear my rent arrears but its very welcome as now i have savings again. Farrah said my monthly UC payments will now go up. I looked up LCWRA and it said its £328 a month, i dont know if this is on top of my £232 payments but i hope so as my rent is £418 a month. The file doesnt specify an amount as to how much im entitled to or how much theyve already paid me..it just says £0.00 so ill have to wait to find out.

I still feel angry that they refused to answer any of my journal messages and that ive had to go through weeks of severe stress and sleepless nights. If i hadnt contacted the debt advisor from my housing association nothing would have been done and my nightmare would have continued. These people need training in how to do their job!

Hi,

Something definitely isn't right here because you can't be paid ESA contributions based of £110 per week and the LCWRA part of UC at the same time.

Claiming Contributions based ESA and UC at the same time, your ESA should be deducted £1 for £1 from your universal credit. If it's done this way then you should be claiming the following elements. Standard allowance over 25 single person £317.82 + LCWRA £328.32 total amount £646.14 per month.

As you're claiming Contributions based of £110.75 per week, which works out as £479 per month because UC is paid monthly. This amount should be deducted from your UC £1 for £1 £646.14 - £479 = £167 then on top of this you should be claiming the housing element, as i don't know what area you are then i can't help with that part.

To break it all down in simple terms you should be being paid £110.75 per week CB ESA then for UC will be your housing element + £167 because you have LCWRA.

Being paid both CB ESA and the full amount of LCWRA of £328.32 is not correct because you can't be paid them twice. Are you sure part of what they owed you wasn't because of the shortfall with your housing element?

I checked the breakdown but im no wiser as it says my payment for 23rd dec is £118 which is lower than the £232 before when Farrah said it should now be higher. I still dont know how much UC are paying direct to my landlord as it says theyre paying £442 but it said this before but then they said theyre only paying £232 and i had to pay the difference of £210 myself. I have no idea and Farrah said she wont know until she receives their payment which she said could take weeks.

The breakdown is :

Standard allowance £317.82

Housing £442.74

LCWRA£328.32

Total b4 adjustments £1,088.88

Total taken off for other benefits

ESA £479.92

Debt recovery £47.92

Payment to landlord £442.74

Payment for Dec £118.55

I'd like to think this time they really are paying the housing element to my landlord and i no longer have to pay the difference as if theyre paying only the UC payment of £118 the difference i will have to pay will be even greater. My weekly rent is £104.55 but this includes service charges, £2.38 of which are not eligible for housing costs so eligible rent is £102.17, i make this £408.68 per month. So they cant be paying my landlord the £442 housing element as this would be too much.

Last night i left a journal message asking them to explain exactly how much i now have to pay towards my rent so i know if i will now receive enough to cover the rent and bills but as always this has not been answered. I also asked if my ESA will be reduced again like it was before. At first UC replied to (almost) every journal message i left but every message since november has been ignored and this is so frustrating. Before, the UC payment i received (£232) was the amount they said they will pay to my landlord but surely this cant be the same now as the payment now is only £118 so would leave £290 i would have to pay from my ESA so i would then be even worse off?

Also they say my ESA is £479.92 but £110.75 a week is £443 on my calculator?? Even from £479 if i have to pay the difference of £290 it will only leave me £190 to live on. I'm so confused, i desperately want this sorting before Christmas but its not looking likely ill get the answers until afterwards.

Their calculations are exactly the same as what i calculated it to be, if you read my previous reply to you, the only difference is, i didn't take it consideration the debt recovery payment of £47.92. Their calculation of £118.55 is spot on.

Your calculations of your ESA payment is incorrect, this is because ESA is paid every fortnight and UC is paid monthly and not every 4 weeks. This is how you work out your ESA payments for the UC deductions......

£110.75 x 52 = £5,759 this is worked out because ESA is per week.

£5,759 divided by 12 = £479.91 per month.

So the amount taken off your UC for the ESA you receive is correct.

Sounds like you'll also have a shortfall for your rent because of the service charges. I work out the shortfall will be £10.31 per month. As your housing element is paid straight to your landlord then you won't see this and all you should be paying is the extra £10ish per month to your landlord.

You total fortnightly money will be ESA £221.50

Your UC monthly payment should be £118.55 per month.

Out of this you then need to pay £10 per month for the shortfall in your housing element.

All you need to do is make sure UC are paying your housing element and it's the correct amount. Another thing to bare in mind is that your rent will need to be paid in advance but UC is paid in arrears. This means that you'll most likely always be in arrears with your rent.

Thank you so much for this as its far easier to understand than the way UC do it. But i still dont understand the bit about the rent as although they say my housing element is £442 this was not the amount they said theyd pay before and im worried itll be the same again. Plus £442 is MORE than my rent is. How did you work out the shortfall? If this is right then £10ish is nothing compared to the £210 they said i had to pay before and ill happily pay it.

Farrah did say it will take them several weeks to pay her the rent payments. I have paid the £210 off my rent for this month so at the moment its in the black.

I worked out the shortfall based on what you said about the service charges in your previous post.

As i've said multpiple times it's impossible to give you a definite answer on the housing element (other than using the figures you told me above) because i have no idea what area you live. All area are different and the amount you recieve will depend on your LHA.

Sorry i meant to say i live in Peterborough. What is an LHA?

Youve certainly helped to put my mind at rest that i will now be able to pay my rent and my bills, thank you.

LHA is local housing allowance. This is what's set by your local council for housing benefit but it's used to work out the housing element of UC too.

Having looked online for your area and for a 1 bedroom weekly rate it's £92.05. Working this out as a monthly rate for UC purposes is £398 per month. Your rent is £442 per month, so you'll need to find the shortfall of £44 per month. I worked it out as £10 per week, based on what you said above, so i was almost right.

It's not ideal to have to pay all that per month out of what you get but unfortunately UC don't pay any service charges.

I really hope that UC finally pay the correct amount of rent and i'm glad i was able to explain it all to you. Not many people understand UC and DWP are most definitely one of them.

Going back to your PIP refusals now. I really do urge you to request the MR on your most recent decision because as i advised, you have 13 months to request this. Completely pointless to continue to re-apply using the same evidence as before because you'll likely continue to be refused. MR/Tribunal is the only solution here.

I hope you'll be able to find someone to help you with this process because having some understanding of the descriptors and what they mean will help.

I finally got a reply in my UC journal, it says my rent is covered as theyre paying the £442 directly to my landlord. They still havent said why my payments have gone down despite adding the LCWRA but at least now I dont have to use my ESA to cover my rent and i receive enough to cover my bills and living expenses.

I also left a message asking if i need to report a short hospital stay later this month, I'm having an operation so dont know exactly how long i'll be in, could be anything from one to 4 days. but this message still hasnt been answered. I tried googling it but couldnt find out if i need to inform them.

I sent a complaint about UC failing to answer my journal messages as almost every message is ignored but ive received nothing about this, its so frustrating. Ages ago i noticed an agent had written i moved on 19th July when i moved on 26th June and i left a message about this but its never been answered.

I also asked if i would receive backpay to cover my rent from 26th June to 17th July, i had applied for HB, waited for it but was then told i must claim UC. I eventually got an answer saying my council would deal with this through HB but i couldnt get HB so this doesnt make sense.

The reason your payments have gone down is because your ESA is deducted £1 for £1 from your UC monthly payments. This is because you can't receive ESA Support Group and LCWRA at the same time, as mentioned in a previous post. See my calculations above regarding this.

They're paying your service charges on your housing element so for this you're claiming more and it means there's no shortfall to pay.

For your hospital stay then as it's only a maximum of 4 days then you don't need to report this. Only hospital stays for 6 months need to be reported. This information is available on google.

Backdating UC can only be done for a maximum of 1 month but only under the most extreme circumstances. If at anytime you're not receiving any replies on your journal then the best thing to do is to ring UC.