shortness of breath as related to PMR
Posted , 18 users are following.
Hi Eilean, I read in a discussion that Shortness of Breath was not uncommon with this condition because it can affect respiratory muscles as well. I am wondering if this can ever be an early symptom. I had been experiencing problems with breathing with exertion for a few years which was gradually getting worse. I saw a respirologist and had just about every lung test done with them all not showing anything to cause it. They then did an antihistamine test and decided perhaps I had asthma, but I do not think I did as the inhalers did not help, but when he put me on prednisone my breathing was much better and I generally felt much better. It was not until a year or so later that my muscles in my legs and arms began to feel extremely weak and I had pain especially in my arms and shoulders. At the time I felt that my Dr. did not understand or perhaps believe how weak and unwell that I felt. Have you ever heard of breathing problems being an early symptom prior to the others? Thanks
Carol Ann
1 like, 23 replies
EileenH carol_ann35477
Posted
Nearly 2 years ago I had an episode where suddenly, overnight, I was unable to walk comfortably up the slope into the village from where we live. I was totally out of breath and dizzy, I could just about manage on the flat by any slight slope was too much. I was investigated for heart problems - nothing. A dose of 15mg pred instead of the 5mg I was on at the time sorted it immediately - after I realised a few weeks later that the aching and stiff hips were reappearing and possibly this was a flare. It was the breathlessness problem that returned as I tried to reduce the pred dose and it was a few months before I got below 12mg as a result. Since then I have reduced steadily with no problems and was back to 5mg - until a few weeks ago when I had a similar experience when walking up stairs. I've gone back to 7mg and seem to be fine again.
My own suspicion is that this might be a flare where the autoimmune disorder is affecting the blood flow in the chest arteries and so causing the breathlessness, there has been a question of whether this is a bit more than PMR, more in the GCA direction, before. But I've asked for referrals to the cardiologist (I have atrial fibrillation anyway) and the new top PMR expert rheumatologist who has recently taken over as regional head of rheumatology here.
Lots of people with PMR/GCA have found they struggle with hills, even llittle ones. The suspected poorer supply of blood to the muscles (or lungs) would be enough to cause the breathlessness - just like after you have run for a bus or up the stairs even without PMR. I would love to know if the mitochondria, the powerhouses of the cells, are involved. That would contribute too. And I do know there is an article about fatigue being a very early sign of a developing PMR - is there an overlap between fatigue and breathlessness as such?
It is all a mystery - and to that you have to add that autoimmune disorders overlap a lot in terms of symptoms. The label you are given depends on the clinical presentation - so if you have bits of what are normally perceived as 2 different disorders they seem to get totally confused as to what you have!!!!!
carol_ann35477 EileenH
Posted
Thanks Eileen, I am beginning to think that the SOB that I was experiencing was an early sign of the PMR. Once the tests showed no lung or heart problems, they wanted to put it down to anxiety. However the only anxiety I had was related to the breathing problem. The other thing was whenever the respirologist put me on prednisone for my asthma, I felt so much better, and as soon as I came off it the breathing problems returned. Can this PMR resolve itself quickly? I have been plagued with extreme fatigue for almost 2 years now, it got a little better when I started prednisone in March but I was still often having to have two naps a day, and really had to pace any activities. Monday of this week I got up and just knew I was feeling better. I decided to go out and do an errand as usually one was all I could manage. I went to 2 stores, came home did a couple of things around the house and did not need a nap.
Yesterday was a wonderfully normal day as well, and today although I was a bit tired it was nothing like it has been. I have just gone to 18mg of Prednisone from 20 approximately 12 weeks ago. I am just wondering if this is the same for other people with this condition. The only good thing about having this awful condition, is that Monday it just felt so wonderful and amazing to be feeling "normal" again.
Thanks for your response.
EileenH carol_ann35477
Posted
Once the pred has the inflammation under control yes, you can feel suddenly much better. In my case I suppose I was lucky - it took less than 6 hours at 15mg to feel human again and be able to move. The associated bursitis and tendonitis took a few months to resolve but the worst was gone very quickly. But feeling that well while on a fairly high dose of pred doesn't mean it has gone away, it just means it is now well managed. Now you have to reduce slowly to find the lowest dose that gives the same result. At the dose you are on there may well be a bit of pred boost - not that I can say I ever experienced one!!
You may be lucky, you have possibly already had PMR for a couple of years and about 20% of patients are able to get off pred because the underlying autoimmune cause of the symptoms has gone into remission in about 2 years. For 75% of us it takes up to about 6 years and one third of patients still need pred at 6 years, some of them need it even longer.
So now, as you are feeling well, it is time to reduce SLOWLY and carefully. No heroics or you will be back where you started!!!
karenjaninaz carol_ann35477
Posted
Carol Ann, I have the same problem but mine developed long before PMR . I was exposed to fumes from a floor solvent used to prepare my late mom's home for sale. I was exposed only a few minutes and a week later I was viviting the Pulmonologist. The diagnosis: reactive airway disease which is not asthma and which asthma meds help little. However this got worse with PMR,steroids and low normal Vit D levels. With asthma steroids help immensely. The medical literature has a small case report on worsening breathlessness with steroids. Regarding reactive airway disease high normal blood D levels have actually abolished this problem in an interesting case report.
i increased my Vit D with oral supplements and a Vit D lamp. It has helped. Naturally I work with my pulmonary on this. I do use a bronchodilator-Ventolin and Symbicort but the higher dose of this inhaler dried my eyes severely. I tapered down to the lower dose ; my eyes got much better and my breathing was not worsened.
This is a baffling mystery and, as Eileen suggests, multifaceted.
You can message me privately and I can send you the case reports.
carol_ann35477 karenjaninaz
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Thanks.
Guest carol_ann35477
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I had a cold with mainly symptoms of cough and breathlessness. The symptoms were resistent for weeks. I thought it was a tough viral infection. 4-5 months later I had my first PMR symptoms.
Since then I had to Cranial-sacral-therapy sessions with work on my chest. When deeper breathing was not possible, it always helped me. I felt looser after the treatment and I could breath way better.
Perhaps you could give it a try, if you have a therapist around where you live.
carol_ann35477 Guest
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amkoffee carol_ann35477
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I do have asthma as well as PMR and my excessive problem with breathing started after my PMR. But when I felt shortness of breath I tested my oxygen level and it was always normal during these episodes. Not only that but my rescue inhaler was not helping. I am a little better now but they put me in the hospital for 4 days under observation and it was pointless. In fact I was pretty frustrated because the whole time I was in the hospital I never once saw a pulmonologist. However they were all concerned about my heart because I had a slightly enlarged heart and I I told them that I had some chest pain but I knew it was from gas and if I could just burp I would be better. Well of course I said the words chest pain and even though my EKG was normal they went after it gong ho. So I saw a heart doctor every single day and they ran a couple of tests that they had already run a couple of years ago. My heart is just fine, they even say this slight enlargement is not a big deal. And as far as my breathing my GP thinks it's simply from anxiety. So I'm treating it as if it's an anxiety attack rather than a physical problem. But it is very frustrating.
carol_ann35477 amkoffee
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thanks so much for your reply.
MariGrace carol_ann35477
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Carol Ann, I don't know if breathing problems are is a symptom, but I do know I have the same problem - especially at night. If I even try to sleep on my side I cannot breathe. There is no asthma, only difficulty getting a breath. I have the same extreme limb weakness, too. No relief, only daily worsening. Having fought and won the battle with Behcet's thirty years ago, I'm not feeling so positive about this battle. Before PMR, my lifestyle was very active at nearing 70.
My seizing onset of PMR was May of this year and the diagnosis was confirmed by a number of blood tests. The doctor also did blood work for additional immune diseases. Before diagnosis, I went through over a month of heart studies due to the pain in my chest, racing heart, high blood pressure (unusual for me), etc. We realize now, all the problems were the onset of PMR. I've been on 60 mg of pred. down to 30, just had a shot of 125 mg on Friday and am now in my 4th week of additional methotrexate, without much change. I was told I will not be getting off the methotrexate. My body was seized to the point of total immobility. There were few things, including getting into bed, I could do for myself - until the prednisone. Now, my body moves, but there is also a lot of pain that is full body. The Rheumatologist will probably put me back at 60 mg. of pred. again, in Nov. The side effects of the meds are not helping. This is such uncharted territory. It is encouraging to read that many on the list are at such reasonable doses of prednisone. I'm not sure that is where I'm going to be for a while, but will remain hopeful. Thank you, thank you for this list. MariGrace
The PA I work with mentioned 'a flare.' This confused me because the way I see it, I've not gotten out of the first flare, yet. A flare in a flare? This stuff is kicking me.
EileenH MariGrace
Posted
Are they really sure this is PMR? I know a couple of people who were told they had PMR but further investigations showed it was actually Behcets with a crossover of another a/i disease (which I can't remember off the top of my head, sorry).
There are no blood tests that can "confirm" or rule out PMR.
MariGrace EileenH
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Thank you, yes, the Rheumatologist and my Internist both ran the C Reactive Protein and the sed rates they use to diagnose PMR, plus I have all the classic symptoms of PMR. I had Behcet's (nearly checked out with it) for two years. The Rheumatologist in the state where we lived was amazing. There were six meds and over a year of 100 mg a day prednisone with the other year spent tapering off. It was not good. However, once in remission, I've stayed there for 30 years. NIH diagnosed my Behcet's based on a criteria list. My new doctor asked me about Behcet's, but none of the symptoms have surfaced recently, for which I'm thankful. That said, the doctor explained that there could be other diseases intertwined... what? Who knows. The Rheumatologist I'm seeing is a specialist in autoimmune diseases.Maybe he can shed more light on things. I see the PA for maintenance.
My body is a mess and things are going backward. It makes no sense. He might do other workups in Nov. The PA gave me the shot because she is worried my body will seize again. They treat aggressively, that doesn't bother me, at all.
My thinking was that maybe a year or two and this would go into remission, too. When I read that some people are getting off the meds it makes me so happy for each one. It's hope. MariGrace
EileenH MariGrace
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"...the C Reactive Protein and the sed rates they use to diagnose PMR"
Raised CRP and ESR are still not specifically diagnostic of PMR - they are part of the overall picture but would be raised in many things - including a resurgence of the Behcets or a load of other things that could produce PMR-type symptoms. What I was meaning is that Behcets MAY present looking the same as PMR, that was the case with the friend I mentioned as initially she had none of the more typical Behcets symptoms such as mouth ulcers.
I do hope they find something that helps.
carol_ann35477 MariGrace
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may66088 carol_ann35477
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