Starting my weaning off journey with Bisoprolol

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hi guys, im 30 years old and have been on 2.5mg bisoprolol for 10+ years over 1 episode i had, really rapid heart rate after smoking some marijuana, i was bed ridden and terrified to get out of bed because my heart was beating so fast i would almost pass out. that last about a week until i got put on Bisoprolol.

i have been pretty good since then with this terrible drug bisoprolol and i recently have been approved to get off it(finaly) i also have no heart issues whatsoever i have been told by the cardiologist. Now the crazy part is that i dont understand how cardiologist do not have a clue how bad this drug affects people when they are coming off it, they litterally told me to just get off of it completely that i wouldnt need to wean..,.(holy crap)

i knew that wasnt going to happen being that i have tried  weaning off this drug before with litterally no success! the effects i get from a tiny bit of cutting the pill by a 10th was horrible. For me it would raise my cortisol levels at night causing extreme panic.. like i thought i was for sure dead waking up at 3:30am !!!! This was litterally happening for months with no explanation and countless visits to the ER. After researching this drug and months later i finally figured the pill was the cause of high cortisol spikes at night/extreme panic attacks so i made sure my doses were exactly 2.5mg. Before i was just hoping to get the right cut by eye but of course that wasnt the case.

Does anyone have any suggestions on weaning off Bisoprolol? How is life after getting off the drug? anything i should worry about? I go to the gym 4 times a week and notice the cortisol spikes at night get worse if i try weaning and still hit the gym. Im hoping to get off this pill completely sometime in 2018, i will be starting the wean jan 1st of the new year so im excited and scared at the same time and really would like some guidance. Oh yea i take Holy basil for the high cortisol at night which really makes a difference, thought id throw that out there in case anyone was going through the same thing!

anything would help

thanks

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  • Posted

    Hi Victor, I was only on Bisoprolol 2.5 dosage for a couple of weeks, made me so ill that I cut the tablets in half which seemed to be just enough to control my Ventricular Tachycardia, but after two months of this tiny dosage, I went into a state of near catatonia at work, even after oxygen my heart rate was only 42. I was told to stop completly taking the Bisoprolol in order to be free of the drug in order to have a pre-abalation heart scan where they thread wires up into your heart.

    So that was my first cold turkey coming off, however, within three days Ventricular Tachycardia was so severe that I was rushed to hospital and they gave me massive amounts of Bisoprolol even though I told they I had to be clear.

    So another cold turkey stop, but it wasn't out of my system enough for the investigation to work.

    They then tried me on a different beta blocker, Sotalol, this put me into a coughing frenzy so once I went to my GP he told me to stop taking it so a third cold turkey.

    Now here we are eight months later, I am so ill with what I consider to be a damaged Autonomic Nervous System from the beta blockers, when I mentioned to my cardiologist that it is said to be dangerous to come off beta blockers cold turkey, he seemed to think there was no problem at all.

    My cardiologists and doctors all rubbish my notion that as I got my current symptoms as soon as I went on beta blockers, and even though I have been off them so long, the fact that the same symptoms remain seem logical to me, that the beta blockers have permanently affected me. So of course I get no help, they use the usual fob off saying its anxiety, even though I do not get anxiety. Needless to say I have no trust or hope in the medical profession at all and am left completely alone.

    Can offer no advice I am afraid except to be very careful and come off them as gently as you can. Somebody here suggested that as beta blockers block receptors in your Autonomic Nervous System, the body compensates by growing lots of new ones, when you stop taking beta blockers the receptors turn back on again but you find you have got far more adrenaline receptors than you need, so the slightest adrenaline causes an out of proportion reaction. Logically then you need to stay completely stress free until your body has recovered from these drugs. Many here say you will recover, but it might be quite a few months.

    Good luck.   

     

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    • Posted

      I,ve been on a low dose Bisoprolol for 9 months, never felt so awful in my life, I just feel ill and horrible pressure in my chest and head, low heartbeat and blood pressure. I,m waiting to see a physiologist but have heard nothing.

       

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    • Posted

      When you dont need it any more, hopefully you will feel well again. It must be very rare for ones such as me who still feel so awful 9 months after stopping it. If its not rare then there must be a cover up going on!
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    • Posted

      I have come off it cold turkey, early stages yet, so far haven,t had the pressure in my chest and head.  I will see my doctor next week. I was only on 1.25 mg.
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  • Posted

    Victor,

    I absolutely agree with you about how cardiologists say it is just fine to stop.  Well it is not fine.

    I was having an ablation and was told to come off 5 days before the procedure.  I knew nothing about this horrid drug. So off I go 6 days before.  I was an absolute mess.   But I did not make the connection at that time due to not ever taking these before.  It got so bad that I was put on a benzo for the anxiety. then i was put on Trazodone.  Because the ablation was not successful,my EP specialist thinks it did not work because of the anxiety meds I was on.   He wants to do it again but I must me off both the meds prior to the second ablation. So I have been weaning since last March.  Yhat has also been a nightmare  . Todate I have been free of the  Trazodone for 40 days, and the Klon (benzo)  is down to an itsey amount, that I will just stop in the next day or rwo.

    BUT all this s**t that I have been going through with first starting these 2 med, and then the painful withdrawals and weaning  are all because of the abrupt stopping of the biso.  If I had known that all of the symptoms were from the stoppage of biso  and not anxiety, I would have dealt with it better

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  • Posted

    Hi, Victor. I am a few years older than you.

    I was on Bisoprolol for 1 year (1,25Mg and later 1,25Mg and a half dose).

    I tried to quit fast and I didn't make it, I ended at ER after 30-40 days off drugs.

    I had to start to take a drug again.

    A few Months later, I decided to quit again, but this time, I decided to wean off for 6-12 Months, if needed.

    Luckily, this time I was taking only half a dose from 1,25 (that is around 0,62 Mg).

    What I did is: 

    Lower a dose to let's say 0,50Mg and stay on that dose UNTIL you will feel good.

    This is what it looked like:

    1. I am feeling fine at 0,62Mg dose

    2. then I would lower a dose to 0,50Mg and I would feel horrible for 10-20-30 days (high anxiety, heart rate at 90-100 all days long, strange heart rhytms, nausea, dizziness etc)

    3. then after some time, my body would readjust to a new dose (0,50Mg)

    4. then I would stay on that dose for a few days, to "relax" a little before I continue with a hell of a withdrawal again

    5. after a few days of "resting", I would lower a dose to 0,45Mg or 0,40Mg

    6. then I would experience the same hell again for 30-ish days

    7. then repeat the same again (relax-hell-relax) with 0,35Mg, 0,30Mg, 0,25Mg, 0,20Mg, 0,15Mg, 0,10Mg, 0,05Mg

    I personally needed 8 Months to wean off from 0,60Mg to 0,00Mg and even when I stopped, I still felt bad for 30-40 days.

    So, let's say that I needed 9 Months.

    I am currently 1 year off drugs, and I am feeling good, or at least way, way better than on drugs.

    I can walk, do normal stuff and live a semi normal life.

    If I would have to go through this again, I would always do it slowly, 0,10Mg per Month.

    A few tips:

    1. drink a lot of water

    2. take Magnesium

    3. take some Valium if needed to calm down the crazy anxiety (due to BB's withdrawal)

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    • Posted

      Hi Bob, thanks for the input. This makes me want to make a super precise pill cutter, I honestly can't believe how clueless health care professionals are about beta blockers its unreal. I have recently found out that vaping cbd has helped people come off their beta blockers successfully which I'm going to be looking into more and will definitely wean by 0.10mg for a certain period of time. Unfortunately your body has to go through a homeostasis state to get your body functioning back to normal. I honestly can't wait to get off this drug, my doctor says it's linked to depression being it blocks adrenaline and other important functions in your body so I'm wondering if that could be the reason I feel depressed. Their should be a mega thread stickied on what things can help with weaning off beta blockers and such.

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    • Posted

      I was also somewhat depressed on Beta blockers.

      On some sites, you can read how Beta blockers influence our brains after reaching inside a blood-brain barrier.

      Nightmares, depression, bad mood, lethargy etc

      Also, you can feel depression (imo) because of a few reasons:

      1. unrelated to BBs

      2. due to BBs, side effects

      3. due to feeling bad on BBs, and then developing a depression because you can't do anything (walking, living a normal life) due to BB's side effects

      4. the same applies to your original disease. If you can't live a normal life due to your disease, you can fall into a depression.

      So, it can be any of these. Or 2-3-4 of them mixed.

      About cutting a pill, I have wrote in the past on other threads: don't worry. You don't need to cut a pill exactly the same each day.

      For example, if your pill is 2,50Mg.

      Then, if you cut it in half, that will be 1,25Mg.

      If you cut it in 4 pieces, that will be around 0,62Mg.

      Now, if your current dose is 2,50, you don't need to lower it only by 0,10 (imo). 

      You can lower it right away for 0,20 or 0,30Mg.

      (The differences are bigger on lower amounts. Even with a lowest amount of a drug, you will get some "base" amount of a drug, and everything after that is only a small upgrade. So, if your HR drops from 80 to 70 on a 1,25Mg dose, it won't drop 4x times more than that on a 5,00 Mg dose. So, when you take a 1,25Mg dose, your HR will drop from 80 to 70. While on a 5,00 Mg, it won't drop from 80 to 40, but more likely to 55-60. So, an effect is lower on larger doses.

      The same, on a 10Mg dose, your HR won't drop from 80 to 0, but from 80 to 50-ish. So, you see, a drug has a strongest relative strength when you go from 0 to 1,25Mg. So, it will be easier to lower your dose from 5,00 to 4,50Mg than from 1,00 to 0,50Mg.

      From my experience, going from 0,50Mg to 0,00 is the toughest.)

      Anyway, let's go back to your doses. You should just do this: if you have a 2,50Mg dose, then cut a pill in half to 1,25+1,25Mg. Then take one part of a pill (1,25Mg) and cut it in 4 pieces (0,30Mg each).

      Then take 1,25Mg + 0,30 +0,30 +0,30 from now on and throw away one piece of 0,30Mg each day.

      That will be around 2,20Mg dose in the first "weaning off" days.

      Or, if you want to go slower, throw away the piece which seems to be the smallest (try to cut it in around 0,20Mg). 

      Anyway, nothing will happen if you will take 2,20 and 2,15 Mg on the next day. That is more or less the same.

      So, you don't exactly need a pill cutter.

      You can do it on your own.

      You will just need to cut bigger and bigger parts which you will throw away.

      (Over a few weeks, don't increase the size of a thrown away part daily).

      When you'll come to 1,25, do the same.

      Cut a tiny part on a side of a pill each day.

      And over days and weeks, cut (and throw away) more and more.

      Again, nothing will happen if parts won't be EXACTLY the same.

      Also, you can do this: when you are at 1,25: take 7 pills of 1,25Mg size.

      And cut (and throw away) a tiny part on each of those.

      And then in the next 7 days, just take 1 by 1 in order: from the biggest pill (after cutting) to the smallest.

      So, let's say that you have cut them manually and that you have created 7 pills with: 1,00Mg size, 0,98Mg size, 0,98Mg, 0,96Mg, 0,95Mg, 0,94Mg, 0,92Mg.

      Then just "look" at those 7 pills and start with the largest one on a day1 and end with the smallest one on a day7. (1,00Mg on a day1 and 0,92 on a day7).

      Then repeat the same in the next week (you can cut off and throw away larger parts in the next week).

      Or, if you aren't feeling well, stay on the same dose for a few days/week.

      In short, you don't need a precise pill cutter.

      Just use some maths and write a diary about how much you are taking each day and you can "manually" create smaller and smaller pills by yourself.

      I personally didn't have a pill cutter and I have weaned off from 0,62Mg to 0,00, as explained above (And from 1,80Mg to 0,00 in my first attempt).

      So, I wasn't EXACTLY on 0,30Mg and 0,20Mg dose.

      I was just taking smaller and smaller pills each new week (or I would stay on the same dose if I didn't feel well) and in the end I started to take only tiny parts which looked like a dust (that was probably around 0,02Mg or 0,03 Mg).

      Then you should just take that lowest dose: once in 2 days for 7 or 10 days.

      If you will feel fine, then take the same, lowest dose, once in 3 days for 10 days.

      And then stop taking it and try to hold on.

      You should be fine eventually.

      One more time, long story short: you don't really need a pill cutter.

      You can do it on your own slowly, as explained above.

      Good luck and feel free to ask whatever you need. 

       

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    • Posted

      Hi Bob,

      Do you have any advice on how to start exercising while reducing bisoprolol?

      I’m 24  and  I have been taking bisoprolol for about 2 years. I’m currently on 1,8 mg, which I take after dinner. I do not feel tired or whatsoever. I can do a lot of exercise, however I struggle to sleep at night, if I overdo it. I tend to wake up every 20-30mins with nighmares and breathing issues... 

      I would greatly appreciate your advice.

      Natalie

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  • Posted

    It’s a year come January since I stopped Bisoprolol.    It’s not been easy I have had a heart that races like crazy then slows right down when relaxing.  At first my heart rate was all,over the place.    However now it mostly stays within normal limits and my memory is great I also sleep much better.   All the best I,also recommend the magnesium chelate or Taurate and drinking plenty water.   Bobs advice worked for me.
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    • Posted

      I was on them 22years.  2.5mg down to 1.25mg from November to January then 1.25mg from January to February then .68mcg  for a week or so then finished.    It wasn’t, easy my heart rate went faster than it should but air kept an eye on it with my Fitbit.    
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    • Posted

      That's satisfying to hear, I'm 30 and have been on them for 10+ for one little episode, I was told by the cardiologist that he doesn't even know why I was ever put on them..

      How's your life been after coming off the beta blocker? More energy at all? More productive? Your thoughts any different ? feel lazy when I take my whole 2.5mg dose. Also have bad thoughts and I feel like my bisoprolol is the cause .

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    • Posted

      God I can't not wait, I've been like this for 10 years and I'm wondering if it's the reason I have been on anti depressants. I'm looking forward but the weaning part is where I'm going to have most my problems, hopefully I can atleast cut down by half .

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    • Posted

      You will get there.  Take it a day at a time.   I went from a very slow heart rate to being too fast.  Sometimes it was scary now I feel great but my blood pressure is high again so am back 9n different meds.   All tablets have side effects however being able to sleep at night and feeling clear headed are important to me.   All the best you can do it 😀

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    • Posted

      Hi Victor,

      I share your concerns.    I am currently weaning  Bisoprolol following the method describe by BOB, so far I am doing good with  mild  or non-symptoms.     I’ve been on biso for a little less than 3 years and I am weaning from 2.5mg.   I use an analytical balance.    I scratch a small quantity  and then weight  the pill in order to increase  the amount I scratch per day.  I try increase aprox  1 microgram/day.    When I feel  the withdraw  symptoms  are worsening I  stay in the same weight  for a few days until I feel  better, and then start again to increase the amount  I scratch.  It’s been very slow and sometimes I feel I only fooling myself.   So far I have reduce ¼ of the pill,  but the symptoms  have been very mild.  Mainly limited to a headache that comes and goes,  but BP  and pulse have remain in reasonable values.       I still have a long way to go and I know the worst is to come.  But  I want to believe I will make it  and  knowing  someone have done it  or that are going through the same is very supportive!  

      Good luck

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    • Posted

      That was my route when I start weaning, buying a scale to weigh micrograms so I can do what you describe. Also I found out recently holy basil and ashwaghanda are both great herbs(in pill form) for something like this which helps the body come back to it's homeostasis state and helps with the adrenaline surges and severe anxiety some people go through when weaning off beta blockers. I will try that type of wean after the new years but please keep us updated on your progress!!.

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    • Posted

      If you do not mind me asking why do you wish to come off bisoprolol..?

      For me its use was to regulate my BP, so my needs for it were relatively simple compared to some and easier to come off it, in that context.

      Side effects tho.........

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    • Posted

      Hi

      It's the side effects I hate. Feeling sluggish... tired ...anxiety ....never had those before and even a bit depressed. Not something I've ever had. So yes I'd like to stop them any that's only happened since taking tablets x

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    • Posted

      Well the very best wishes for you in doing so.

      Whilst everyone is different and some might be o with these tablets I have been much much better now that I'm no longer taking them.

       

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    • Posted

      sorry to jump on a old comment but what is a ok heart rate and when should someone panic im starting my weaning process and scared when the palpations start

      was on 3 months for high bp

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