Starting remeron WD week 8. Still insomnia and morning anxiety

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Hello,

I am on Cipralex 10 mg and off mirtazapine since 7 weeks (15mg during one year for sleep).

I tapered down from 15mg to 7.5mg (5 weeks) and gradually with 1.875mg steps towards 0mg, each step lasting 10 days.

I had a very hard time coming down from 15mg to 7.5mg, anxiety, stress vulnerability, mood swings-irritability appetite loss and insomnia but things stabilized after 5 weeks.

The other smaller steps were less difficult.

After and since last dose, except a few days, I feel miserable mostly in the morning. The stress vulnerability is the only thing that has really improved. Anxiety is more physical than mind related. The irritability or general dissatisfaction mood swing is also less extreme. Insomnia has gotten worse and worse starting week 3 after last dose. It is very difficult to fall asleep and whenever I sleep it is a light interrupted sleep that is difficult to maintain. I sometimes take 0.5mg xanax with delayed action but doesn't help a lot. As soon as I wake up, usually quite early, I often feel overwhelmed by tensions in my body (arms, throat chest, gut ... etc ...) and get up in a miserable state. I found that cardio exercise is the best to feel better but finding the time and motivation is not easy during the week. 

I have the feeling that my brain isn't producing melatonin but instead too much cortisol.

I was expecting things to go better after 7 weeks. I have read about the wave and window patterns of withdrawal healing. Last week I may have had a few window's days and I am probably in a wave these last 2 days.

The hard thing is to know if this WD will have an end and when.

If someone recognize himself in this situation and/of likes to share his experience, this would be really much appreciated. 

Thanks, Nico

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  • Posted

    Hi Nico

    Hang in there it will get better. I started my wd off mirt last June and was completely off it 2 months ago and like you had waves of anxiety and then feeling good. It now seems to be each week I get one day of feeling crap and then fine for the rest of the week. I still have insomnia and only get between 1 and 5 hours interrupted sleep. My doc has given me some tablets to help but I am trying Kalms which help a little. Believe me it will get better

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    • Posted

      Hi Marianne,

      Thank you for your message. I hope things will definitely return to normal for you asap.

      It is reassuring not to feel alone with this damned pill withdrawal. The last day was good, even the two last night sleeps were surprisingly good. However I still wake up with anxiety / nausea, it is difficult to know what it is exactly but I feel like crap during 2-3 hours. When I was taking 15mg mirt, I always felt really bad in the morning (much worse than now) and well again in the afternoon. Except as sleeping aid, mirt isn't at all a good pill for me.  

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    • Posted

      hi,i experienced same as you when i was on 15mg.Early morning anx and feeling like a zombie til 1 or 2 pm.That,together with 3stone weight gain was why I decided to come off.I have been tapering since may last year and now on just a bit more than 7.5mg.It has taken me a long time as I am very sensitive to mirt.I still get the highs and the lows but the lows seem to be getting less severe I think.It has ruined my ability to make plans so must take one day at a time.
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  • Posted

    I world not take xanax if I would be you. I'm just withrawling  Clonazepam for 10 months now and I'm still in severe pain. Benzo will cach up with you and is worts than antidepressants. I would try benedryl or melatonin here and there not xanax. 

    It can take a long time for some people to get back to normal. I hope it will come fast for you. Hugs

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    • Posted

      Hi, Eva,

      thank you for your feedback.

      You are right, benzo should be avoided. I have unfortunately quite a lot of experience with xanax and took it for months at low dose and never experienced withdrawal issues. Same with Sertraline, no wd.

      I have an appointement with my P doc in 10 days and will ask for melatonine and try it. 

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  • Posted

    Hi nicolas Eva and Marianne are right, it takes some time to recover from Mirt WD. I have been off it, after tapering down from 30 mg , for 13 weeks and I only started to see the light at the end of the tunnel at 12 weeks. I would get good days, then morning anxiety dogged me the other days, up and down.

    Unfortunately I had a bad accident a month ago which set me right back and muddied the waters a bit, but now I'm back on the right road. Believe me, it's really Tough with a capital T, and I can so understand people going back on to the wretched drug, but in my opinion that's not the answer. Hang on in there, keep a log of how you feel, and you will find things WILL get better, but it takes guts and time.

    Keep in touch especially when you're needing reassurance, it was this forum that helped me through.xxx

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    • Posted

      Hi, Greta,

      Happy to read that you see the end of the tunnel!

      On my side, things are probably improving but very slowly and it is difficult to realise the progress, especially when in a wave. As you write, it is Tough!

      Thank you for your support, it's good to read from people experiencing similar health issue.

      Nico

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    • Posted

      Hi Nicolas

      Sorry to read of your suffering.  

      I wonder if you might be better to take Phenergen for sleep aid for a little while, depends if you can get it without a prescription - if not maybe like above says, try Benadryl.  I took Phenergen when I finally got to zero Mirt after tapering.  I took 10 mg before bed then when I woke between 2-3 I took another 10 mg.  Insomnia is the worst symptom of discontinuation I'm sure ~ cure this and we're half way to recovery.

      Unfortunately it may be paradoxical to take Melatonin. I have read that whilst the brains neuro transmitters are reforming/rewiring once without Mirt, that taking this can do more harm than good, it may well hinder recovery.

      All those symptoms you describe above are discontinuaton, I hope you manage to recover quite quickly, and I wish you well.

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    • Posted

      Hi Calmer,

      Thank you for your input concerning the melatonin.

      Last time I talked with my Pdoc about melatonin, he said it was possible to try it but told me that the results with it were not convincing for everyone.

      Anyway, last month I slept an average of 5h per night (light & interrupted) and these last three days were much better, 7h uninterrupted good sleep. Unfortunately, the crappy morning feeling remains and subside during the day until 4pm. It is a mix between anxiety and a feeling like throwing up. If that all is really the result of mirt wd, I wonder how they can propose such a medication?

      Thanks again Calmer and all of you for your support.

      Nico

       

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    • Posted

      Hi Greta,

      how long did you take 30mg mirt?

      Are you 100% fine after 13 weeks or do you still have some wd symptoms?

      Nico

       

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    • Posted

      Hi Nico

      7 hours sleep, well that sounds very good !  I know it takes some time to get our sleep pattern back, afterall once off Mirt' the brains neuro transmitters are repopulating and it takes time, its not like flicking a switch.  

      I hope most of your nights will be 7 hours now, although it may be up and down, sounds like you're on the way to recovery.

      Best wishes.

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    • Posted

      Hi Calmer,

      Thank you for your message. Yes it is all about up and down but much more down time this last week.

      These were only 3 nights and during each of the evening I had to fight not falling asleep before 10pm! I had kind of sleep "attacks" which is something unusual for me.

      However, last night was completely different, like before, insomnia again. I couldn't fall asleep and had 5 hours light and interrupted sleep. I am at work this morning but I am not able to do much because I feel so much tension in my body (abdominal, chest and weak legs & arms) that it really aches. I feel inner restlessness and miserable. I don't know what to do to feel better except waiting for the afternoon when symptoms subside.

      My brain is just a total mess after 8 weeks of mirt WD. I have gone through waves of anxiety and relief period but this wave is just horrible. Symptoms are a bit different every day and seem to increase in strength. 

      I hope things will calm down a bit because I am close to what I can withstand. 

      Nicolas

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    • Posted

      What dose did you stop Mirt' at Nico ?  I see you dropped 1.8 mg every 10 days ~ pretty fast for some I think.  Did you feel quite well during all the tapering?

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    • Posted

      I stopped at 1.8mg and was ok during the tapering. 

      If I had known about how I feel today, I would have spent more time during each step. I have read about the 10% tapering but here where I live minimum available dose is 15mg. Getting 1.8mg out of it is quite challenging! 

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    • Posted

      Yes Nico, challenging indeed !!  There is a 7.5 mg tablet but I'm not sure if its available here in the UK or where you are?  I know it is in the US.  There is liquid Mirtazapine here in the UK but hard to get on the NHS as it is so very expensive.

      It is possible to make a liquid with either tablet or the other form that is available called Mirtazapine Sol Tabs.  Anyway that isn't really possible for you now.  1.8 mg is quite high to "jump off" Mirt' from, the knowledge is just not "out there" of how low to go, I went to 0.1 mg with liquid, then every other day, every 3 days etc.  One guy recently used the term "Customers for Life" for the big drug companies !!  

      Well no one can tell you how long it will take, only that it gets easier slowly, best to take advantage of the better days (windows) and when the waves hit tell yourself "this too shall pass" ~ it is an awful drug to discontinue, be sure to let your doc' know you are struggling and that you have been advised of the 10% rule and maybe he/she may learn this too.

      Sorry about the previous removed posts, I used a C&P and it was picked up.

      If you want to read the method to make a liquid for any future taper (of the Cipralex maybe in the future) then click on my name and follow the links under my status.  Best to have the informed choice.

      You might want to google Magnesium, it really helps improve sleep.  As does Mag rich foods.

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    • Posted

      Hi, Calmer,

      Thank you for your support.

      Difficult to fall asleep last night, heart at 75 BPM during the whole day. 4 hours deep sleep tonight with 0.5mg Xanax. Instantaneous abdominal stomach & throat tension at wake up. I went to work this morning in a crapy state and told some colleague about my health.

      I take Magnesium and omega 3.

      I have an appointment with my doc this afternoon.

      I think, I need a break, I am exhausted.

      Thanks a lot again for your support. 

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    • Posted

      So sorry, the nature of the beast coming off AD's - I hope your Doc doesn't advise another AD drug or Benzo, they are so good at polly drugging.  Nothing can relieve WD from Mirt ... only Mirt.  So the only option and I know you said you didn't want to ever take it again, the only option would be to return to the 1.8 mg and hope that stabilisation works.  I'm not saying it definately will but it does for most people, might take a week or so.

      Then you could have a break from the symptoms, and do a very slow taper ... just a thought.  Either that or ride it out.  It will get better, it always does, reassure yourself of that ... must be very hard trying to do a full days work whilst feeling this WD ... be careful with the Xanax, it is after all addictive/also and needs to be tapered.  Did you rule out taking Benadryl or Phenergen?  They are sedating, contains anti histamine same as Mirt', will be a little groggy in the morning, but I find it soon wears off after a shower etc.  

      Hope hyour appmnt goes well with your doc; I don't think many docs, even P.docs realise the difficulty with this drug, they aren't trained, they usually think old symptoms are coming back, such a lack of knowledge is keeping more & more folk going round trying other meds when in fact its the meds causing us the agony half the time.

       

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    • Posted

      Hi Calmer,

      my doc seems to be aware of withdrawal and have or had a couple of patient having a lot of issues with AD withdrawal however not Remeron but Paxil.

      So he advised me to take 1mg Xanax with delayed release at bed time and he prescribed me melatonin which I haven't tried yet since you said it could alter the healing process. BTW if you have more info about it, I'd be interested to read it.

      With 1mg Xanax, I wake up about 6 hours after falling asleep (deep sleep). After that, I am able to get a lighter sleep during which I feel increasing throat, chest, abdominal stomac ... heart rate increase up to the point I feel restlessness and have to get up. Sometimes those anxiety peaks also happen during the day. They last 2-3 hours per day and then I am feeling ok. I would say I am mentally ok even during accute symptoms, it's just that it is physically very hard to withstand. 

      Sometimes I have doubts that what happens to me are only WD symptoms. It has been 8.5 weeks that I stopped the drug. I have gone through a lot of symptoms, some like depression, irritability are much less present, but anxiety and bad sleep quality is still and strongly present.

      I am not really enthousiastic about returning to a low mirt dose. I have read that this could be efficient after 3-4 weeks but not after 8 weeks.

      I appreciate very much your support, 

      Have a nice weekend.

      Nico

       

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    • Posted

      I have no doubt that Mirt discontinuation symptoms can last for many months Nico, so please don't ever think any symptoms you have is purely down to any old symptoms returning.  

      When we stop AD's too quickly, or even Mirt' at 0.5 mg, it can shock the CNS, so many folk are struggling with the same symptoms as you Nico, I don't know if that helps, but it could be reassuring smile  

      I stopped 22.1.17 and I still have odd days when I feel the fatigue and foggy head that is discontinuation of Mirt ... and sleep isn't perfect by any means, but I'm getting there, slowly !

       

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