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Stem Cell Recovery Forum: Arthritis and Cartilage Injections

Posted , 88 users are following.

jeffharms
jeffharms

A place for patients (and prospective patients) of Stem Cell procedures related to arthritis and cartilage building due to athletic injury, wear-and-tear and arthritis.

7 likes, 187 replies

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  • jeffharms
    jeffharms

    Posted

    The doctor has told us that the swelling due to water retention can be treated with water pills. No conflict with the stem cells. So that's good news.  

    It will be one month Since the injection on Wednesday. They say she should have relief in 2 to 3 months.  So far, there has been no change.  Besides getting over the initial procedure: bone marrow extraction and other injections they due to increased swelling, She is feeling the same if not worse than before.  

    One lesson seems to be that she waited too long To take action.  Hesitating, afraid to do the surgery, and then researching this stuff over the months, The arthritis has just gotten worse.

    But we are hopeful, if only to be hopeful, and waiting the two months more to see recovery.  The doctor, Dr. Bletcher, says sometimes people don't feel relief until all at once after two months.  And statistically, 70% get some relief. Here's hoping we are not in the 30% that feels none.

    • joy47826
      joy47826 jeffharms

      Posted

      So that is discouraging to hear, no relief and a month soon......Are you in the U.S.?

      I would love to try the PRP for my knee, but again no guarantees and $850 doesn't come real easy but I could do it.

      I did a hip replacement in late 2010 and it's been a mess for me....lots of complications I ended up with from the Anterior procedure but many do good....I was one of the small percentage with femoral nerve damage, so I'm not a happy camper.... I'd like to hear more as you go along here...

      I can't bear to do knee surgery.j

    • jeffharms
      jeffharms joy47826

      Posted

      Yes, I'm in the US.

      Still she says her pain is worse every day.  But yesterday there was a glimmer of hope with the physical therapist and Aqua Therapy.

      In the water and suddenly my mom was walking, and at a pretty fast gate.

      So hopefully this will build up the muscles that have been atrophied and this will help her recovery.

      Of course today she'll be sore from the exercise, but the PT said "the motion is the lotion" in the long term.  I hope that's true... 

    • Gardenfairy
      Gardenfairy jeffharms

      Posted

      there is a two month flare up period with stem cells. My doctor says PRP or stem cell will not provide relief until the "clean up" (2 months) period is passed and the body begins the repair...so a few months after that. Also hip arthritis does not respond that well to same day stem cell procedures....better with cultured stem cells....we can't have that done in the U.S. The thought is that because the hip does not have many progenitor cells (those which differerentiate the type of tissue to grow) it does not have a good a success rate as knees, etc.
  • mayday35
    mayday35 jeffharms

    Edited

    jeffharms I guess by cartilage injections you are referring to hyaluronic acid? Like stem cells this is a natural treatment. We have this acid in our bodies and even in our eyes. For the joints these injections are believed to make a cushion between the bones so they move painlessly, mine were for arthritis in the knee joint.  PRP (platelet rich plasma) is totally different. It is an injection of our own blood.
  • joy47826
    joy47826 jeffharms

    Posted

    The lowest price PRP in my area is $850 per session, other docs and prolo people even charge more...there is a LOT of money in So. Cal and those who can afford it, can do it much easier than me.

    I keep dragging my feet on this chronic knee as it could take more than one session and I need what money I have left to live out my life....

    Why is it so expensive, because maybe it really works and people can be desperate, and many people do have funds...

    The HA series and I had 2 different series did nothing for me.

    When I had mineral labs done in 2005, manganese was very low, so was molybdenum and vanadium too.....all 3 are related to bone health. I ignored those results back then, now I know more.

    • Gardenfairy
      Gardenfairy joy47826

      Posted

      Try a few months of traditional prolotherapy at 4 week intervals. It is necessary anyway even if you do the PRP. it is much less money and many people improve just with prolo because the ligaments are restored and support the joint better. Ligaments will not come back when weaked or overstretched...they must be treated. All pain around joints is accompanied by ligament laxity. I wish I knew that years ago!
    • tracie43945
      tracie43945 joy47826

      Posted

      I have a question about the stem cell therapy, is it only used for knees

      ? My dad is going in for a shouler replacement on Sept. 5th and I was just wondering if this is possible for shoulders. Hee has already had both knees and hips replaces

  • mayday35
    mayday35 jeffharms

    Posted

    I really don't understand such a high cost. If you opt to do these PRP injections without an echography it should be far cheaper. I don't have an echogaphy with mine and all I do is have my blood taken from the crook of the arm as usual, then it goes into a centrifuge for several minutes, then out again and the rheumatologist then injects that into the side of my knee. Now that cannot come to $850! More likely half that amount if you opt to have it done without the echography. Ask about it. The important thing is to get your plasma injected into the knee joint. I have had about 8 sessions. I am still in pain! It is said you need them sometimes for longer than a year but I still maintain anything is better than being cut open... the rehabilitation from such an OP can take many months and might entail opening the hamstring to pull through healthy ligaments in the hope they can be attached to those in lower leg which are likely to be whithered. In which case: NO ligaments to hold the prothese in place! Remember one important thing:  NO NSAID'S CAN BE TAKEN DURING PRP TREATMENT.  So you get pain you can't relieve from them, which work...
    • Gardenfairy
      Gardenfairy mayday35

      Posted

      You should not need that many PRP injections. You may be getting an inferior product....poor lab/centrifuge, not having precise placement, and if your treatment does not include prolotherapy for the ligaments you can inject forever and you will not improve.
    • Guest
      Guest mayday35

      Posted

      It's better with echographs because you need precise placement in your joint. It seems you are getting more PRP than is normal. Usually it is 3 or so.

  • joy47826
    joy47826 jeffharms

    Edited

    An alternative to PRP May be prolozone.....injections of B vitamins, some MD's use homeopathic in the injections and lidocaine and Oxygen.....evidently this treatment came from Germany. And it's less pricey than PRP depending where you reside, as usual.

    I'm getting some RELIEF I think and hope from the ligament/tendon support I'm taking now over 5 weeks....also back on glucosomine and will stay with it.....it all needs to build up in our body and joints.

    • loxie
      loxie joy47826

      Posted

      I'm in the UK and all of this information is totally alien to me.  We are not even offered these kinds of treatments for OA.  All I have ever been advised is to take otc NSAIDS, which I unfortunately cannot tolerate due to really nasty side effects.  At best doctors here will prescribe opiates (we have Tramadol, not sure what the constituent drug is for that trade name).  Surgery isn't even an option for me as it's my ankle and there isn't an available effective joint replacement procedure for that, with joint fusion being the only offer and that would bring permanent disability.  I will be reading up on the injections you've all mentioned to see if they are a) available here in the UK and b) recommended.  Cost is prohibitive it would seem, the rich get fitter the poor get sicker......so unfair.
    • mayday35
      mayday35 loxie

      Edited

      loxi:  NSAID's can't e taken during PRP treatment. They are anti-inflammatories and PRP begins by creating its own inflammation so the one knocks out the other.  Tramadol is opiate based. I had terrible side effects and reported not to my doctor, but to its manufacturers.  Its a strong morphine drug and not to be played with! It can be taken during PRP treatment but I don't think that is available yet in the UK. PRP injections can be given in any part of the body but I don't know about the ankle as its very delicate. Write to StemCellinstitute and see what they have to say. Someone suggested vitamin B injections as an alternative. I stress that PRP can have NO reactions as it is your own plasma that is injected. You mght try hyaluronic acid injections - again a totally natural component which is found in our bodies, notably in our eyes.  So no adverse reactions. Hope you are not in too much pain.  Try flexiseq.  Best wishes
    • loxie
      loxie mayday35

      Posted

      Thanks Mayday.  pain varies - weather is cold and damp right now so it's worse than usual but it's in a manageable range.  I'm trying out various natural remedies right now.  Was advised to try ginger which has natural anti inflammatories, so ginger tea infusion and using more ginger in my cooking, I actually can't stand the stuff but will do it if it helps.  I already take high dose vit B complex as I'm vegetarian and don't always get enough B12 in my diet naturally.  Got a friend who was using flexiseq, very expensive here and she reports that it's had nil effect so I probably won't bother trying it, too high a cost for hit and miss results.  Next visit to the doctors I'll ask about the PRP and hyaluronic acid and no doubt get met with a look of disgust that I should mention anything so costly - we'll see.
    • joy47826
      joy47826 loxie

      Posted

      We have a LOT of alternatives to surgeries in the US and YES, money is a factor, all these alternatives are pretty costly to the lower income folks.....I'm a fairly lower income senior and I drag my feet on doing the prolozone injections which are less money, but still costly....

      The cost of living is high and the upside down world will give surgeries under health care programs, but the side effects to all these surgeries,  grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

      So more side effects, more drugs, it's a vicious cycle.   Weather is a  major factor and I'm fortunate to have landed in Southern Calif and much easier on joints in general.....Keep things warm.   J

    • loxie
      loxie joy47826

      Posted

      My doctor poo-poos my ideas and comments about the weather being a factor but I vacation in the spanish Canary Islands sometimes where it's permanently hot and dry and not a single local has arthritis and some don't even have a word for it in their vocabulary. The diet down there may also play a part I guess.  All I know is that two weeks holidaying there and I come back relatively pain free - doesn't last long in this godforsaken climate in England smile
    • joy47826
      joy47826 loxie

      Posted

      Good for you for the Canary Islands vacation...this is why many americans retire in desert areas like arizona, new mexico and nevada and many in the deserts of california....to live better with the the OA they are challenged with...

      I have a cousin the the Eastern US and I think she's had every joint replaced....she can't escape the cold winters and hot humid summer, short as it is.   

      I question MOST of what docs have to say.   Joy

    • mayday35
      mayday35 loxie

      Posted

      ioxie flexiseq is expensive. Around $25 and is CHF 25. Frankly I have friends who  inundated me with tubes of this stuff, going especially into Germany when it wasn't then available in UK. It migh sound daft but after using it I swear my pain was worse! Ginger is good and I use a lot in my cooking but do grate it and use with lots of grated garlic and piments. Its hot to the tongue but good for us. A curry a week? Did you know that Marmite is high in B 12? I am taking supplement of magnesium and about to take multivitamins which are mainly the B vitamins. Drinks lots of water. I have now upped my Fentanyl patches to 50mg. I find they don't stick for long so am now using medical tape to keep them attached. Makes me so sorry for my grandmother who suffered so much with arthritis of her knees bless her. Nothing special those days, think it was wintergreen or something? Best to all and let's hope our pains subside next year.
    • Gardenfairy
      Gardenfairy loxie

      Posted

      check to see if anyone is doing dextrose prolotherapy where you live. More reasonable in price and very necessary. Many clinics here are doing PRP without supportive prolo for the ligaments and the results are not so good. Also many clinics do not have lab facilities and are charging big money for inferior PRP treatment. Without a good lab the PRP is not well concentrated and may contain red blood cells which are more inflammatory and crowd out the number of platelets you get.

       

    • hannah39924
      hannah39924 loxie

      Posted

      Spanish canary islands here I come!  lol

      why don't you stay there if it's so good for your health?

    • Guest
      Guest loxie

      Posted

      I know that there is stem cell service being offered in Spain. You might want to do some research for cheaper options.
    • Guest
      Guest mayday35

      Posted

      I just had PRP on my ankle and it seems to help a little. Need to give it more time.
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