Stiffness and swelling
Posted , 10 users are following.
It has been 5 months since my tkr and I am still experiencing daily stiffness and swelling. Can anyone tell me if the stiffness finally goes away on its own? I still am having horrible swelling every day making exercises to improve my knee flexion almost impossible. I can only bend it just so much and then the swelling takes over. I can do 10 minutes 3 times a day on my recumbent bike but every time I try to increase the time my leg starts to ache big time. Does anyone still have just 100 degree flexion after a lengthy time? Can I live this way forever? I don't think it will ever bend any further.
0 likes, 52 replies
moandrieu jeanne_06699
Posted
Jeanne, hang in there. Over time, it will get better. As I was telling someone, I'm guessing your stiffness is no where near as bad as it was before the surgery. It was those small realizations that helped me push on. I'm now 22 months post op (the end of October will be my 2 year anniversary of this marriage to my two new knees - yep, I had them replaced on the same day). I wish I could say the stiffness was gone, but it's not. I do notice it much less. Going down the stairs for my morning cup of joe seems to be when I notice it the most. I try to not allow my knees to remain straight or bent for too long, shifting positions helps.
As Chico pointed out, the swelling is normal too. I was still icing up to a year after, usually after an extended walk or standing too long. Again, I can rejoice with the ability to walk further and stand longer - so the surgery wasn't a waste of time.
As far as exercise goes, I found it helpful to find a pool and exercise in there. Swimming laps wasn't especially helpful, but treading water, moving my feet as if I was on a bicycle, while using a float and just walking around in the water were all helpful. Something I did for my bend was while lounging in bed - because of the height of my bed, it was easier getting in and out of than the livingroom furniture. I'd sit with my legs out in front of me, and then pull them up, feet flat on the bed until I had a comfortable bend. Then, I'd take it in a little more, to where there was some discomfort and hold it for the count of 10. And then, I'd pull it in a tad bit more and again hold for 10. And yep, one more time, just a touch more and hold for 10. Then, I'd take it back to the comfortable spot and remain there for a while. Another thing was finding some stairs to walk up and down. The object isn't really in conquering the stairs, it was in teaching my mind and legs how to go up and down the right way. Yes, it hurt like holy heck, but I did it and can now go up and down flights of stairs like the next person, though probably without as much hop in my step or speed. I hope this helps you and that dicouragement doesn't set in.
- Mo
marilyn22260 jeanne_06699
Posted
Jeanne... What does your doctor say? I also have swelling and pain and difficult to bend. I am 7 weeks post op and I sometimes I'm 100 but the other day at PT they said 88 I can't even listen to those numbers anymore. My doctor told me that the swelling should subside in 6 weeks. My doctor said the swelling is from the Coumedin I took to prevent blood clots. I am off that now for a week. But still swollen after exercise and when I get up
Good luck and let us know what your doctor says.
jeanne_06699 marilyn22260
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marilyn22260 jeanne_06699
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moandrieu marilyn22260
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I'm stepping out on a limb here, but I'm guessing your doctor never had his knee replaced and is going by what the medical books say. There are a handful of people on this forum who had a textbook surgery, the rest of us all still had swelling well past the 6 weeks. It was the swelling, stiffness and continuing pain (behind my knees) that brought me to this site 3 months post op. How encouraging it was to see that what I was going through was normal and there was nothing to worry about. It's the stress that will get you!
marilyn22260 moandrieu
Posted
Hi Moandrieu,
I don't think you are stepping out on a limb relating to my doctor. I went to one of the best hospitals nationwide, HSS and had a wonderful doctor and I still agree with you, nobody understands unless they walk in your shoes (no puns intended here). As kind as your doctor is, he can answer a few of your concerns, but doesn't know about the upset stomach from meds, the tossing and turning at night, the fear of ever walking right again, and the list goes on. I thing I wrote this a few times. I have tremendous fear (not depression) when I do my pt and bend the leg....To overcome some of the fear, I wrap my velcro ice bag when I do the straightening and bending exercises. I don't know if it is good or bad for knee but I will talk to my PT on Monday when she measures bending and straightening. I am going to do my first mile walk today but not outside. I have a great video from a Pilates instructor that has a 30 minute walk and also works the core.
Congratulations on your almost 2 year anniversary on your double TKR. I can't imagine double the pain and work you endured You really had to work on learning to walk, climb stairs and do all the firsts when it comes to walking, standing, bending etc. We can't even crawl so we have to walk before we crawl.
I am grateful for all your input to this wonderful site....Marilyn
Thank you again for all your suggestions and support.
moandrieu marilyn22260
Posted
Ahh, thanks Marilyn. I just remember how miserable I was during my recovery stage. I was to the point (before surgery) that I couldn't even walk without a sever limp and the rest of my body was suffering terribly. I knew I wanted/needed the replacement and didn't want to take the time to do them seperately. I didn't think to ask a ton of questions, because in my mind, it didn't matter, I was doing it. But afterwards, when I was pushing through all the painful challenges, I sure did have questions and no answers. I remember friends connecting me to their friends (people I'd never met) and me asking them questions. But here, we have a whole army of experienced people to talk to. Interesting idea with icing during the exercise. I'd be interested to hear what the PT says. At any rate, you are doing it, exercising, taking care of yourself, the healing will follow suit. Though, after hiking yesterday, one of my knees is swollen and a little more painful today. I'm fairly sure that's more about a crummy knee cap than the actual TKR.
-Mo
marilyn22260 moandrieu
Posted
Hi Mo,
I will let you know what my PT says about icing during a stretch (which is what I've been ding with my bending and straightening. Maybe I reinvented the wheel (lol).
Speaking about walking and swelling. I rememberwhat brought on my TKR.which came on rather suddenly, In 2015 I fell on a hike and tripped over a tree trunk. Then later that year I fell while visiting a friend. I tripped on a lip on her driveway. All of this on my right knee. I ignored it until October 2016 when I woke up crying from pain. Had an MRI and showed a torn meniscus and bone on bone. Also, like yourself, had a few friends who said it was painful but they were fine in two months and never had pain or problems. But I'm the kind of person who wants to live out my life healthy and when I got two opinions for TKR...I went full force.
A week before my TKR I was walking all over Manhattan. I knew it was going to be taken care of so I figured let me get some last minute exercise in. I am a walker and walk about 2-3 miles three times a week. I also am a very active senior and at 73, before my TKR, never took a nap. Now, getting back to swelling. I noticed now, if I overdo it with walking or exercise and even PT, my ankle and knee swells.
Plenty of ice for you after that hike...My life is about ice packs and PT...Now I am down to one tramadol that I take at night.
Good healing to you....nice to hear from you...keeps me in the loop about healing.
tneel317 moandrieu
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moandrieu tneel317
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Tneel, I didn't. It was the most painful part of the TKRs. I remembered thinking things must have been twisted up on accident or something and they'd have to go back in. Apparently, it's all "normal", meaning some people experience it and others don't, or at least not to that extreme. I'm not sure how far post op you are, but after about 3-4 weeks I decided to apply heat to the backs of my knees and ice to the tops. Some say heat is not allowed, but it brought me relief (and at 22 months post op, I don't think I have any damage to blame on it). That and lots of stretching out the backs of my legs. I would lean over and touch my toes all the time, sometimes just bending at the waist and hanging there. Something I found long after the fact was Voltaren Gel. You need a prescription for it in the US, but I still use it from time to time when my knee cap is acting up (that's another issue for another time). Good luck.
-Mo
tneel317 moandrieu
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Thanks! I am 9 weeks post op and feel I'm getting no where.
moandrieu marilyn22260
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moandrieu tneel317
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Tneel, 9 weeks post op and you feel like your not getting anywhere doesn't sound good. I know we all move through this at a different pace. I had goals that I couldn't ignore (like being able to do some international travel at 12 weeks) which forced me to push myself. Can you not see any advance or something that is better than before the surgery. Small victories should be celebrated and maybe they will help you see that things are better than you thought. Depression is a real concern. This is a long process and we need to be our own cheerleaders because others might not be aware of how far we've come.
marilyn22260 moandrieu
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Hi,
To be perfectly honest with you, I never asked my PT's about icing while doing PT exercises. I had some other issues this week with a stitch on top of the knee that was red and looked like a white thread coming out of it. My pt tried to remove it with a sterile kit but only a little fiber came out and a tiny bit of clear fluit.... not a stitch. I called my doctor and was put through to one of the PA's on his staff and she said not to worry, it's common for some suture areas to react that way. It is not infected so I just took some peroxide and bacitracin and it cleared up in two days.
This week was a tough one. Almost 8 weeks post op.... they started more extensive exercises at PT and pushing my knee to bend till I saw stars. But after they measured the bend they told me it was 105. I think I mentioned in one of my posts, I don't get into this number thing because I start worrying and I know evryone is different. They said that I am 100% okay with straightening +0 (?) I can't remember because I was in such pain when they measured, I thought I would faint. I seem to be having a problem with bending...everything else, including the severe pain has lessened. I tried going off one tramadol before bedtime for three days and was able to sleep 4 hours straight. The night of the heavy pt workouts, I had a lot of pain and weakness and I took a tramadol. I woke up after three hours and my whole body was shaking. That's the second time it happened. So that's it for me..no more tramadol. I believe you also don't like narcotics so ice and Volterin are out best friends. Oh and also my PT applies moist heat before every session and ends it with ice. I still feel that tight band around the front of my knee...I will be patient... I am walking up and down my stairs in the house, driving, shopping and cooking...only till 3:00 and then am exhausted but I will take this very graciously at 8 weeks post op.
I will ask my pt on Monday about the icing and pt. One of your methods of moist heat is used on me every session at PT. Sometimes I think we don't give ourselves enough credit but this site is awesome.
I am going to post something about flying because I have a trip to Los Angeles 3 months post op. I noticed some posts questioning flying. I just made it.
Thanks again for your support....M
marilyn22260
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Oh...I think I meant 0 for straightness of leg ....all I know is that the PT was very pleased and told me great...I don't like thinking about the surgery and after I read the surgical report and procedure, I get pain in my knee thinking about it. Maybe a little post traumatic.
moandrieu marilyn22260
Posted
Marilyn, I had the exact same thing with my right knee! It showed up just around 6 weeks. I took some nasty pictures and sent them to my surgeon, PT and my sister (she's a nurse). It was most likely some inside stitch that didn't completely disolve, is what I was told. So I drained it myself with some heat packs and a little pressure. When it happened again in the same spot a few weeks later I only asked my sister. She said because of the previous one, it was now the route of least resistance. Ugh! Now that area has a much bigger scar. Not sure, but I'm guessing that's the reason.
Nice that they gave you some moist heat. I used that on the back of my knees while using ice on the top - I thought I was cheating, but it was the only thing that help relax the tightness in the back.
I flew at just under 12 weeks from India to Thailand and then to Myanmar. Honestly, I had no problems. And at 6 weeks, I took a 4.5 hour train ride (which can feel a bit like being on a plane). Can I ask where you live now? I'm currently in Las Vegas, but headed back to India next month. So glad this community travels wherever I go.
-Mo
Kaysknee moandrieu
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I am feeling pretty miserable just over 7 weeks since my RTKR! I never asked any questions beforehand but was so positive about the op and just wanted to get it done. Now I just sit looking at my scar weeping and asking myself why I had this done. The stiffness in my knee is terrible, the skin is shiny from the swelling and my ankle is swollen too. I saw my GP about ankle swelling last Monday and she's given me an anti inflammatory which should help she tells me. This was only after I started crying in her surgery. I just want to cry all the time. I never realised how painful this recovery would be. I only found this site in the night when I couldn't sleep (again) and it already feels like a lifeline to all my woes!
sue64229 Kaysknee
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Hi Kay,
lim so sorry that you feel so miserable 7 weeks on. I really feel for you. If uve read entries on this forum, you'll see the swelling, pain, stiffness is pretty much the same for everyone. My surgeon told me before the operation that it will be hard for a couple of weeks but then I'll be fine. Yeah, right!!! I had both knees done on the same day. First few weeks I cried, I swoll up and ached, always worse at night. I wasn't told to ice or heat but was told not to put a pillow under the knee. Well, watching the clock at 1am, that pillow went under both knees and along with the medication, helped. I didn't care. My knees are straight 9 months down the track so it didn't do any harm.
Mentally, I don't think any of us are prepared beforehand for the pain that we endure. If so, I'm guessing a lot of us would have changed our minds. I still have stiffness when I sit too long and aches when I first get moving. One of the knees is swollen still. I also still take painkillers. A lot on this forum wouldn't agree with that this far along but it helps me and MY knees. I, along with others, can tell you about the depression that happens after this operation. It's very common but we think we're alone. I left hospital with a bend of 90 on one knee and 100 on the other. 14 stapes to walk up to the unit where I live and no further physio. They said I didn't need it. They were wrong of course but I've muddled through. My turn around point was at about 5 months, my kitten ran under my bed with something in her mouth and I was worried. I hadn't been down on the floor for years but I struggled and knelt on both knees. The pain was horrendous, felt like my scars were bursting open, burning so badly. I struggled up,and my knees felt very different. I think I'd probably stretched the scar tissue but it was such a relief. My knees felt better from then on. ( naughty cat was fine by the way).
please keep reading this forum and asking questions. You will be inundated with advice. You must remember, we all heal at different times but we do have a lot in common. Just because it took me months to reach THAT point, doesn't mean it will take you that long. I live on my own and am quite determined. Sadly, I don't make the most of these new knees, rarely leaving the unit but that's for a different reason.
I wish you well and hope you feel better really soon. Take advice from people and do what you have to, to be comfortable, whether you ice, heat, rub, stretch or good old meds.expect different views And recovery to take months rather than weeks. It's a long, painful journey but worth it.
positive thoughts and best wishes sent your way.
Sue xx
Kaysknee sue64229
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Hi Sue, thank you for your lovely reply. I no longer feeler alone! I've got over the feeling that my knee will split open if I exercise now I've got to realise that this is a long process and I won't suddenly improve overnight. My Cosultant didn't help when I saw him for my 6 week checkup because he told me that his two previous patients (who I had seen walkout of his room) had had their operation the same time as me and they were walking fine! I really don't think he should have told me that. He got me to have an X-ray to check everything in place which, thank goodness, it is. At least that was good news. I go back to him in September to see how I'm doing then. I'm going to try to calm down a bit more today and not put my poor body under more pressure. My other disappointment is that we won't get to the States in September to visit my cousins which I've been looking forward to all year. We hadn't booked flights but I know in my heart of hearts that I can't do that journey this year. Thank you for your advice, I really do appreciate it. Kay
marilyn22260 moandrieu
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Hi Mo,
I knew you would have something to say that would ease my worries, weather it is an experience of your own or someone else. I just worry so much about infection, and wonder why so many posts about revisions. I know I went to the best hospital (Hospital for Special Surgery) and had the best doctor and team of professionals. I have had abdominal surgery before and remember (and I can see the scar) there was an area that didn't heal as well and left a thicker scar. I am very lucky with the knee....he did a fabulous job in sutures and he did the same with two other people I know. The friend I know who have had knee replacements had them in their late 50's and early 60's so they don't remember much. They probably want to forget it. I am 73 and never had any orthopedic problems except when I broke my foot and got through that okay.
I guess you gave yourself the riight advice when you said your knee felt better with heat. As long as it's moist heat and doesn't stay on too long. They keep it on me for about 10-15 min.
I am originally from the metropolitan area of NY but moved up to Binghamton NY shortly after the 9/11 tragedy. The medical care here is awful. Doctors come and go and I have had 5 doctors in 4 years. I won't get into that because I will be moving back to NYC withing the next year. Also, transportation and flying is very inconvenient so I travel 78 miles to Syracuse for visiting my kids. They now live in California. I have a special occasion Sept. 1 in Cali and scheduled surgery so I could go. It just made the 3 month mark. However, as you say we all heal at a different pace. I called my doctor and spoke with his PA.
Three months is the miniumum time for flying
Should drink lots of water
Get a handicap seat and call ahead to get a wheelchair
Wear a compression sock to prevent blood clots. I went to medical supply where they measured me
Get up and walk around every 30 minutes
Do ankle and foot pumps during the flight
You are a tough guy/lady to do international travel but sounds as though it's your lifetyle. Right now I want to stay put, work my PT and get ready to move to NY. That's why I am hoping I will be able to walk all over the city the way I used to. But the bend is the toughest part I am going through. I feel like there is a huge rubber band around my knee and sometimes it goes down the leg to the calf and ankle. My PT told me the leg and ankle feeling is from all the nerves that were cut. The knee will take time
Have a good weekend and again thanks for your replies. They mean a lot...M
moandrieu Kaysknee
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I'm glad you found it as 7 weeks (of course, sooner would have been nicer). I was 3 months post op and had just suffered an umbilical hernia - which I'm convinced was a result of having both knees replaced at the same time. I was working in India when my knees told me they'd struggled enough (9 years since the first doctor mentioned a TKR was needed). Many doctors there don't like being questioned and get defensive, even when it's only asking for information, so I went into this fairly blind. A friend came over to help me while I was in the hospital (they want someone staying with you and then my sister who is a nurse in the USA came for the transfering me home and remained a couple weeks. After that I was on my own, though I had a wonderful roommate to help and other friends who did what they could. I share this to show that we started off at a similar place.
You mentioned that your GP gave you an anti inflammatory, which one? I want to recommend Voltaren Gel. It's Diclofenac is a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID). It works by reducing hormones that cause inflammation and pain in the body. Diclofenac topical 1% gel (Voltaren Topical) is used to treat joint pain in the hands, wrists, elbows, knees, ankles, or feet caused by osteoarthritis. I use it on one of my knees (at 22 months post op I have swelling because of a bad knee cap that will eventually need replaced) as well on a heel that hurts because of planter fasciitis. It's nearly a miracle drug and I wish I'd known of it earlier. My step-dad shared it with me (he used it after a rotator cuff surgery) last September.
In the USA we have access to Tylenol PM or another generic brand, all over the counter. I always have this on hand and if there are a couple nights in a row that I can't sleep I will take two about an hour before I want to go to bed. When I had my surgery, I started taking them every night (once I was off the other pain meds). This was so helpful in getting a little bit of a better sleep. Sleep changes everything.
There will be a day when everything shifts and you will realize you are now on the upside of this adventure. I remember the day I was in the kitchen, which in India usually takes much longer because of the lack of prepared foods available, and it dawned on me that I wasn't in the pain I was before surgery. I had stood on marble floor for more than 30 minutes and hadn't thought once about sitting down! That was a victory to celebrate. I started taking a positive outlook and finding small victories all over the place. I'm praying you can find the small victories in the daily routine.
moandrieu marilyn22260
Posted
Ah, thanks Maryilyn. If we can't share things we''ve learned (whether the easy way or the hard way) it's a waste. Unfortunately, I didn't find this sight until the umbilical hernia, so I went through my first three months of recovery nearly blind. I was working in India and the system there is very different. Doctors don't like to be questioned and they don't generally have a lot of answers. I remember asking some questions prior to the surgery and he pulled out a surgical text book for me to look at! It's comical now, but not so much then. I needed the surgery done then, as I could barely get around any more. But the shock of the pain (especially behind my knee) quickly brought me back to the reality of the situation.
I'm a 52 year old gal, and because I was working internationally and had to leave the country every 6 months (visa restrictions) I had no choice but to travel. Amazingly, I'd initially thought I would do my surgery only about a month before my visa run. I'm so glad a friend recommended I check that out! I can't imagine having done that! I will say that the need to travel was a great goal that pushed me to push myself, because it would have been so easy to just "relax" and go with the flow.
Glad to hear you've got a move coming up. And I'm sure you will be walking the streets of NYC. Having something to enjoy while walking makes it easier. Just keep in mind, ice may still be needed. I've found I like CryoMax 8 hours ice packs the best. The medium size is good for my knee. I find them at Wal-Mart and on Amazon.
-Mo
marilyn22260 Kaysknee
Posted
Hi Kaye,
I am walking in your shoes at almost 8 weeks post op TKR. I know that weepy feeling. I am driving, going to pt religiously and am so exhausted because I don't think I have slept more than two hrs. at night since the surgery. I stopped taking Tramadol because it made me sick and I think depressed. I am using Voltarin gel for the inflammation. Read some of the posts from those who also use Voltarin. Today was humid aNd I was so uncomfortable driving to run an errand, that I started to cry. I was on line at Staples, standing with a cane and shoulder bag and when I went to purchase the items, the ignorant cashier asked me if I wanted them in a bag. I gues she thought I juggled for a living. She saw my cane and look of pain. I walked out of store in tears. I try to understand that we all heal at different paces but most of us have been active and I know for mysel that I have a certain fear that o will never have full range of bend in my right knee.
My advice is, do the work the pt and doc give you and if there is something you are concerned about, call them. I call it post op depression. We see everone running around and having a life while our lives are, ice, most heat, pt and no sleep. No wonder the sadness.
Hang tough and you will be fine. The sadness will go away the first time you walk a mile... Marilyn??????
marilyn22260 moandrieu
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Hi again Mo...Oh what a great idea about the 8 hour icepacks. I keep going up and down my stairs to replace the icepacks too often. II have to go to Walmart so I will try to get some. I hope I can take one on the plane. Thank you. ??
I am old enough to be your Mother. I have a 50 year old daughter who I stayed with for 6 weeks. What a blessing. But now that I'm home, there is so much to do and I am exhausted by 3:00. Do you think age also has something to do with the healing process? My only concern right now is the stiff feeling in calf and ankle and bending knee during exercise kills me. It feels like there is a rock (someone else on this site said it also)and rubber band in knee.Other than that I am pretty active for 8 weeks post op.
Sending healing thoughts and a good weekend... Marilyn
marilyn22260 Kaysknee
Posted
Hi Kay,
I read about your disappointment in visiting your cousins in the states. I also will be 12 weeks post op when I plan to travel to Los Angeles, CA September 1. Right now I am 8 weeks post op TKR. I have many of the same issues everyone on this post has...fatigue, stiffness, depression, pain, insomnia and the list goes on. I called my doctor and his PA told me that the minimum amount of time to fly is 12 weeks post op. It is a very special event for my granddaughter and my son would be very disappointed if I didn't attend. After speaking with the PA, she cleared me to fly 3 mos. post op. These are her suggestions
Flying permitted 3 months after TKR
Drink lots of water
Get a handicap seat and call ahead to get a wheelchair
Wear a compression sock to prevent blood clots. I went to medical supply where they measured me
Get up and walk around every 30 minutes
Do ankle and foot pumps during the flight
Even though you can walk, you should have a cane. It keeps pushy people away from you.
I hope this information helps everyone who questions flying after TKR
moandrieu marilyn22260
Posted
I'm sure age could play a role. But then, I've seen older people just blow past me in their healing process. I've decided, there's no real rhyme or reason. I had one knee heal up beautifully and the other isn't there. And since they were done at the same time, neither was favored over the other. So who really knows.
I hope you find that ice pack. I loved my one so much I'm buying a second one.
-Mo