Strong Bones Support Group (2)

Sounds like a good idea Jean,works well on the PMR site😀

Hi Jean

​kind regards Carrie

I'm confused. Why not keep going in the osteoporosis forum? 

Does our PMR forum have separate subgroups? Not sure I noticed. 

Hi Carrie,

And you think that you have a butterfly mentality! I think that I have a bee mentality, they visit a thousand different flowers a day.  Imagine me trying to sort out which sentence goes where. It could be quite interesting and would need a few extra hours in a day if I were to maintain my output. You'll have noticed that I never use one word when ten will do the same job!

I have now got hold of the list of 20 essential nutrients and I'm just formatting it so that it will go into a private post.

Had a busy day on-line today, spent some time chatting to Kathleen who accidently first introduced me to these posts and I've never looked back since then and have made quite a few pen-pals.

Haven't looked at your message reply yet, will do that next.

When the formatting is finished, I'll send you a copy. I can't check that it posts alright without actually posting it.

I also have fortified Rice milk as well as the coconut flavoured milk. It all depends on what's on offer.

Going to read your message.

Bye for now and thanks for replying. Wonder if there will be a burble category!

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Well we all do that, Carrie, not to worry.  But if a new topic seemed like it was going to take off there's no reason why a new thread can't be started after the fact.  People do that all the time in the other groups. I'm afraid that I just can't cope with these long threads and if it didn't mean losing you all I would unfollow them.

Hello All,

I have been cogitating a little and have come up with the following for your perusal and comment. Please let me know what you think of it.

I know that some members of our groups do not like long threads or threads with lots of chit-chat in them, preferring a more factual approach. There is not a thing against this approach!

To alleviate the apparent problem, I suggest that there be set up new threads as has been proposed.

At the same time, those of us who like things as they are can still join the new threads but also continue with what is currently the norm, using existing threads and respecting the subject matter of the new threads as appropriate. This way we can have the best of both worlds and links can be easily used to move between the various threads. It would also mean that effectively, as a group, we stay together and both the chat and subject requirements would be satisfied. After all there is nothing to stop people switching around and the notification system should advise members when there is something new to look at in any of the followed threads..

The links are incredibly important and someone (a willing volunteer) will have to keep a watchful eye over what is happening and make links if there are any missing.

Your opinion is quite important to me and I really would like to find an acceptable solution to this problem that some people have with the current situation. I would also be prepared to do whatever is necessary to make it work.

To me it just seems like the next logical step.

Regards to all

Colin

aka Aristotle

Well, here's a case in point.  Jill mentioned something about Functional Medicine.  There's no reason why that shouldn't be separate thread, is there?  But I do recomment we migrate back to the osteoporosis forum.  I though the "chatroom" would work a little differently, but it is basically just a catchall for anything that doesn't quite fit.  And I don't really see the problem with having threads about different topics, but as the consensus seems to be that things remain as they are, I respectfully withdraw my suggestion.  It's a holdover from years working in a library where of course my job was to make information as accessible as possible!  

Hi All,

Have a good day all

​kind regards Carrie

Hi Colin,

Got your links and thank you so much   Need to get my brain in gear to check what I am taking and what may be a good idea to take

I think speaking to others in whatever form helps   We can bounce ideas off each other

Am going to look into rice milk

Sorry if my reply a bit short and sweet today but got a busy day ahead with various things I have to do/sort/understand!!! lol 

Spk soon

​kindest regards Carrie

Hi Jean,

​That's why I think Colin's idea a good one; we can still stay in touch, and the forum lets us know about new links or comments and we can reply/talk as we feel able.  But more importantly we can still follow the new links and gain the important information that might help us. 

​Why not just pop on the long link once a week or something, just to catch up, rather than try and keep up with everything?  I am finding myself that I have to prioritise certain things, and I cannot be on here all the time or every day necessarily, although if a private message pops up I will prioritise that   That way you can have the best of both worlds; stay in contact, but at the same time follow the course/thread you feel best for you.  

​I am trying to not put pressure on myself to follow/comment on everything because I just cannot do it, I do not have the time or energy!! lol

​I hope you stay in touch - as a lot of what you have imparted has made a lot of sense to me  

​Do take care, kind regards Carrie

 

Hi Jean,

I don't see any reason why the new threads shouldn't be based inside the Osteoporosis forum, indeed it is probably more appropriate that they should since the main ideas are dealing with osteoporosis and osteopenia. The only bit that would need any attention would be the provision of links both to the new threads and from the new threads to the old so that we all can get where we desire to be and actually the old threads which have a lot of chat in them are also appropriately placed in the chatroom.

I think that would work fine but please add your input and see if you can spot any problems with this. It may need a little thought for specific issues to be placed in the correct thread but really it's just just a matter of hilight, copy and paste. It should work just fine and we could still all use the threads as appropriate to whatever we were currently involved with.  I had actually considered involving the main osteoporosis thread but then wasn't sure if it was the best thing. Done the way I've outlined above, it definitely is the best way.

Hope that you find this acceptable.

Regards & Best Wishes

Colin.

Hi Colin, Jean et al,

​Colin, if it is possible for this 'group' to remain, but for ppl to include links for other information as and where, then I personally do not see a problem.  I am not very good at technology and uncertain how I would do that, but if it could be explained then I am sure I could try   You mention copy and paste, so if it is just doing that, then that I can do

​Jean, I totally understand your view of keeping things in order but I think the OP etc is so encompassing with so much else including hormones/diet/supplements etc, that in my view, one things sort of leads to another so they are all instrumental in our wellbeing and cause to beat/manage our OP as best we can. 

​Hope what I said makes sense, my M.E./Fibro flare is such that my brain fog is not making my thinking all that logical in explanation - I know what I mean but I realise not everyone else gets my drift! lol  Butterfly mentality in overload! lol

​Take care all and kind regards Carrie 

 

HI Carrie,Colin Jean et al,

I had forgotten that we are in chat room on here so 

Thank-you for reminding me to check back to the main osteoporosis site for other relevant subject headings to follow as well.Like you Carrie I wasn't sure how to add a link on here so will try the cut and paste! Did try once before but lost my message🙈🙈

I'm writing a simple text on how to create links. will post it when I've done.

Colin

I don't understand the problem.  All of us have access to every single notification we have ever received - just go to your profile to see that list.  It will be pages long!  Moreover you can also look at your own activity to find any post you've ever made.  I have myself referred to my "activity" to find things.

It's not really a problem, some people prefer to have a link rather than searching. As you say my list is miles long and takes some searching for something that I've forgotten what it's called. Something to do with aging!

I've even been known to use other people's lists to find things!

Hello Carrie, Jean et al

I'm certain that by now you will have seen that I have put in the links about which I was twittering. You don't have to use them but I will check for missing links and see if we can get more of our subjects put directly onto Osteoporosis and Osteopenia. Jean had some good subjects mentioned in one of her posts and they would seem to be a good place to start.

I didn't write a blog or burble yesterday because I was too busy trying to sort out what I intended to achieve. I have partially managed and should be able to do more over the next few days, but it's time for a bit of relaxation now.

Carrie, I do so hope that your flare is subsiding a little. My daughter says that only peace and quiet and almost meditation is the only thing that works for her and then not always. Thankyou for your support in my endeavors and hope that trying to get your head around things didn't puddle you too much. Most of Saturday seemed to be spent typing so I didn't get much reading done but I have reached the Appendices in The Book. I have several other books to start and I still need to go back over The Book and pick out the bits that I will use or am using for my path towards nirvana. The other book on a bones project, turned out to not be the one that I ordered but was still accepable so I got a decent discount when I let them know, and it's still useful to me. The more information the better.

My daugher came up with some thing which I think all of us non-dairy types need to be aware. If you are using rice milk like me, it would be wise to search for 'arsenic and rice' or similar. Apparently there has been concern since 2014 about the possibility of being affected by arsenic. It never filtered down to me because I hadn't an inkling that there was a problem. I'm surprised that the media didn't pick up on something of such importance. or maybe they didn't see it that way.

Been for the Sunday walk and even though the northeast coast has a cold breeze blowing, it wasn't too bad and we really enjoyed the exercise, especially with some grilled haddock, a jacket potato and salad in the middle.

Going out to cut the fast-growing grass again, it's our garden rubbish pick-up this week.

Best wishes to all

Regards

Colin

Hi Colin et al,

​Your daughter is so right; I am retiring to the garden in a mo to try and have some quiet, which I didn't get yesterday.  Too many thoughts whizzing round my head and I need to switch off a bit lol

​I never heard of the arsenic and rice search; hmm, something else that needs to be checked out. 

Well done on your walk, hope you enjoy the sunshine this pm

​Apologies if I have forgotten to mention something; I normally catch up with things but at a slower rate to everyone else!

kind regards Carrie

Hi Carrie,

Breathe deep, think of beautiful things and be calm and enjoy the rest

.

Wish you a restorative afternoon

Take Care

Best Regards

Colin

Hi Colin,

:D  Doing my best!! lol

​You take care - think another post I have just written to you has crossed so apologies, just catching up with a few bits now

​kindest regards Carrie

Hi Carrie,

It's nice to hear from you. I do appreciate that with the problems that you have, it must sometimes be very difficult to raise any enthusiasm for thinking and typing.  As fit as I seem to be, I sometimes get a little lethargic and sometimes a discussion in which I'm taking part just becomes too complicated to continue. Luckily that doesn't happen very often. 

I've just been answering a query from Kathleen and have made a link on this page (about medications when they aren't justified). Thats something that I have views upon and had no problem rattling off a page reply.

It helped that the weather is pretty poor, fast & heavy drizzle, so no garden today. Have lit the fire and I've got the tele on replaying a film that I recorded previously.

I think that I'm burbling again!

Have got another relevant book which I've only just started so I'm reviewing The Book and making notes as well as reading, watching and typing.

I was at the gym this morning and had quite a good session with lesser weights and didn't come away with any noticeable aches so maybe I've found my starting point.

I still have bouts of vertigo and dizziness left over from the AA even though it's 8 weeks since I stopped taking it. The itching it caused is still needing creme to stop me scrathing my arms off, but most other side effects are fading. I've taken steps to regulate my hrt level and hope that this will show some results soon.

Pauline had a look at her knee creme and it turns out that it has the same active component as your home-made medication (forgotten the name at the moment), but thanks for your suggestions.

Evening Meal time.

Gym again tomorrow.

Hope that your recovery continues, I do feel for you

Take good care of yourself

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Hi Colin,

It is just a bit of a time factor my end....but I am keen to keep up with things as best I can   The wrist exercises have to take priority as I obviously want to be able to try and use my arms properly again so improving the muscle and soft tissue is a must lol plus where the pins were inserted, the soft tissue is arguing that it doesn't want to go back to where it was which ....is a bit of pain!

​Ahh, that is good with Pauline's knee cream - turmeric?  I just made some more of the golden paste as it did seem to be helping a bit more than the capsules with pain, so fingers crossed so to speak.

​Well done on your gym sessions and good news that you have no noticeable aches so maybe too much too soon before?  As you say, a good starting point hopefully from which you can build.

​AA has a lot to answer for   It still staggers me that the medics are still so keen to prescribe it   I know it suits some ppl, but for us others .......

Well done on hopefully regulating your hrt level, I hope that helps.

​Did manage outside here as it hasn't started raining.....yet!  The other side of the country does look like it is suffering horrendous downpours

​I am hoping to get more to grips with the book soon and start making some more notes myself.  I am convinced that all information is useful, whether it is just to cross something off our lists as 'doesn't suit' or to find something that does.  So in that regard I am indebted to you and everyone else for sharing their/your valuable experiences

Evening meal time here

​Spk soon!  You take care

​kindest regards Carrie

 

Hi Carrie

I'm impressed with your fortitude. All you ladies with your myruads of problems really are quite remarkable. I would probably find things very difficult having never been in the position any of you are in. It really does encourage me to offer whatever support that I can.  As for sharing others experiences, I think that most people & me particularly are honoured and a little humbled to think that you find these experiences interesting and useful. I sent you another link to some Chia benefits and I found it very enlightening and shall continue to use them and hopefully receive the aforesaid benefits.

I sent a post to Eileen a little earlier - more support and some information. I FINISHED my first read of The Book and now have to go back and make notes of the things that I shall / am using and build that into my story which is progressing slowly. We definitely need more hours and energy in a day but I find that I sleep around 8 hours with little difficulty.

I shouldn't have mentioned sleep.

Will chat again tomorrow, thanks for replying

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Hi Colin,

Ahhh...we ladies don't do badly do we!! lol 

​Yes, thank you for the link, I will hopefully be able to go thru them all soon.  I have readded Chia seeds to my shopping list lol  With all their benefits, it does seem a very good idea to add to my diet

​I am always interested in knowing how ppl get on, I feel that anything we can do to help ourselves has to be a good thing.  Obviously somethings will not suit everyone, but that at least means that we get a choice and breadth of information to pick and choose from that best suits our individual needs.

Well done on finishing your first read of 'the book'!  It is still on my 'to do' list but I will get there

​You are so right with the more hours, time and energy in a day!!!!  But every little helps eh   My sleep has not been quite so good, but that is to do with the M.E./Fibro rather than the OP/OA.

You take care and I hope you and Pauline have a good day

​kindest regards Carrie 

Hello Carrie et al,

For those of you who knew her, Eileen has told me that life is too chaotic at the moment and she has decided to withdraw from the Patient website and all its conversations. I intend to keep in touch via email when the time is appropriate.

Today I started reading the latest book about vitamin K2 and how it all fits in with calcium. It turns out that K2 is another one of those vitamins that is a miracle and is the catalyst for a multitude of operations within the human frame. As well as being responsible for sorting out the calcium on the bones, it also helps to clean up plaque in the cardiac and other arteries, along with other vitamins and enzymes, it can help to control osteoarthritis if it's fairly recent, and can mitigate some of it's problems even if it is mature. And that is only after the first 20 pages. I also have obtained a bone health guide from which i hope to learn more secrets of nature's miracles.

It's not really very surprising that the doctors do not have all the facts at their fingertips when I have only a couple of things to know about and am studying loads of books and trying to assimilate and study a myriad of pages of data, whilst they are expected to know about every ailment, problem, drug and treatment that has existed and is under development. It really is too much of a task for any individual. I would have expected that by now there would be a program developed which had been designed as a diagnostician under the control of the medical profession, so that they could have all the necessary information at their fingertips. Such a program would be an ongoing permanent development and would be pretty massive after even a short while but if we can spend umpy-ump man-years on developing software to get someone to Mars, I believe this should be a piece of cake.

I do try to spread around any and all the information that comes my way that is of any interest, and this gives me a great deal of pleasure. The pages on the site that I have read have enhanced and increased my knowledge significantlyand I have also made friends with whom I can discuss issues and problems.

Much of today was spent in household chores and collating past posts so that I can extract more useful data from them. There are not as many new posts as there were a couple of months ago so I am beginning to catch up a little. Keeping up with new links is almost impossible and I've stopped trying to cover all of them, only covering those which appear to me to be of significance.

Gymnasium tomorrow. I've been doing a little less since I over-stretched myself and ended up with an aching back and abdomen. Kept up with the impact exercises and things are improving. I'm still looking forward to finding that I really am improving rather than just feeling that I am.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone with some osteoarthritis / osteoporosis links & information.

Best Wishes to everyone

Regards

Aristotle

aka Colin.

Hi Aristotle! Thanks for all your hard work. K2 is certainly a bonus to use in our artillery of supplements and nutrients.

I do have osteoarthritis and my hands can be especially bad.

I have had it for a long time. If I get cold it can be agony so we keep our house heated in winter.

I accidentally lost all my emails when I was trying to cull them so have waited for you to comment again to easily locate you.

My sister was on fosamax and has come off it but has not told me much except that she has been unwell. She has had issues in the past with her esophagus so should never have been put on it. She was surprised that I refused to take it as she said at that time that her friends had no issues with it.

She did not want to lose face so went off it without telling me although I would not have done a  'I told you so!'

Even minor side effects are awful when it yourself who is suffering them, not that I think her unwellness or esophagus issues are minor.

Good on you for reading and collating your findings!

Hi Colin, Kathleen, et al,

​Maybe Eileen will be up to coming on again when Life is a lttle less chaotic; I hope her pain is not too bad, thank you for letting us all know.  I have not been on here so much myself due to things being chaotic my end, so completely understand why she has withdrawn.  Trying to keep up with everything, and all that life throws at us, especially at the moment, is very hard for everyone.

​It does seem like K2 is beneficial in so many ways, thank you so much for letting me know about it.  I have been on it every since and sincerely hope that it will help.  That, zinc, magnesium and everything else - including the strontium citrate I started around a week ago - fngers crossed!

​You make a good point about the doctors and the idea of a diagnotician.....I don't hold out much hope due to money costs in the NHS!  But it would make sense in many ways.  I have given up a bit about trusting doctors as over the years I have been let down, so tend to do my own research then go along and tell them what I want!   Doesn't always go down well - but I'm not out to win popularity, just obtain answers and results! 

​Please carry on spreading your counsel Colin, and going through posts for added insight and information, I for one am very grateful

​Good luck at the gym   I've just rescued the washing as it has started raining!  My bit of exercise for the day I think!!

​Kindest regards Carrie

​

 

Hi Kathleen,

I too suffer with osteoarthritis badly in my hands, for me, a change in weather/air pressure seems to bring on a spate of increased inflammation   I did increase my turmeric paste today in the hope that might help as turmeric is a natural anti-inflammatory....fingers crossed.

​A shame your sister suffered so   Why I am determined not to go back on them!

​Take care and I hope this is a low pain day today for you.

​kind regards Carrie

Hi Kathleen, Your sister deserves a whole heap of sympathy, as do you, but she is also to be applauded for giving up the infernal chemical poison. One of the classic side effects is burning oesophagus and she has really done the wisest thing. The only problem is which course of action is she now going to follow. I'm sure you will be able to help her decide and this may actually crystallize your own views, I recognise that you helped me to make up my own mind just by being there for me to write to as much as anything. It really does help to get your own thoughts sorted out and as time goes on and I gather more information, the path is increasingly becoming crystal clear.

Have you made up your own mind yet or are you just going with the flow? Or maybe I shouldn't ask such leading questions.

I do hope that all goes well for you and your sister.

Please keep in touch, it's always nice to hear how your friends are doing. As an aside, I, apart from sundry aches and pains, haven't been so well for years. I think that it's all the chatting.

Kindest Regards

Colin

Hi Carrie,

Nice to hear from you again. I think that I was slightly shocked that Eileen had decided to leave us but i'll get over that. I just hope that Eileen will perk up again. I think that I'll copy my yesterday's blog and email it to her because there is some quite useful information in there.

Well done you for managing to write such a good blog under such pressure. I'm still not sure about the strontium and I'm hoping that you will give us a good report on it eventually. Reading and writing take up a large chunk of every day at the moment. It will be worth it long-term.

I like your comments on your doctor's procedure, it sounds like a good plan. I've just come back from the surgery after having to demand a copy of the reports of a set of blood tests I had done at the cardio-vascular clinic. I don't know why they resist, they have to give them or I'll set the legal beagles on them. Anyway they caved in and I have the results. They were all within the set limits but the one about which I was concerned was well down at the low end and this was the one suggested as being responsible for my OP. This suggests that I have an insensitivity to the androgen supplement that I have been using since 1996. So I'll have to fully implement plan B which is part of my overall OP plan. (This is the removal of the prime cause of my OP and involves using twice as much dope on two days, Monday and Friday, Morning and Evening). This is similar to female HRT but for men, which has the same effect if it's too low. I'm glad in a way that it showed up towards the low end otherwise I would have been wondering if there was something else amiss.

As in my missive to Kathleen, Pauline is now on K2 as well.

I'll send you the details of the K2 book that I got from Anhaga just in case you want to look at a copy in the library. The information is really first rate and I find it unbelievable that the journals, particularly the Women's journals, haven't picked up most of the information.

I haven't read so much since I was reading for my degree many years ago! It's nice that i can help others with the information that I sift out.

Had a good gym session this morning, taking it easier but still with as much determination to succeed. Then it rained and we got a little damp on the walk by the seaside to the little cafe on the pier, but we don't shrink very much and the exercise and togetherness all help.

Have burbled enough for now, I feel more like my old self but I still miss the closeness of our little group. Pauline would tell me not to be so soft!

Going to read some more and do the PM for you.

Take real good care of those wrists as well as the rest of you.

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Hi Carrie,

Nice to hear from you again. I think that I was slightly shocked that Eileen had decided to leave us but i'll get over that. I just hope that Eileen will perk up again. I think that I'll copy my yesterday's blog and email it to her because there is some quite useful information in there.

Well done you for managing to write such a good blog under such pressure. I'm still not sure about the strontium and I'm hoping that you will give us a good report on it eventually. Reading and writing take up a large chunk of every day at the moment. It will be worth it long-term.

I like your comments on your doctor's procedure, it sounds like a good plan. I've just come back from the surgery after having to demand a copy of the reports of a set of blood tests I had done at the cardio-vascular clinic. I don't know why they resist, they have to give them or I'll set the legal beagles on them. Anyway they caved in and I have the results. They were all within the set limits but the one about which I was concerned was well down at the low end and this was the one suggested as being responsible for my OP. This suggests that I have an insensitivity to the androgen supplement that I have been using since 1996. So I'll have to fully implement plan B which is part of my overall OP plan. (This is the removal of the prime cause of my OP and involves using twice as much dope on two days, Monday and Friday, Morning and Evening). This is similar to female HRT but for men, which has the same effect if it's too low. I'm glad in a way that it showed up towards the low end otherwise I would have been wondering if there was something else amiss.

As in my missive to Kathleen, Pauline is now on K2 as well.

I'll send you the details of the K2 book that I got from Anhaga just in case you want to look at a copy in the library. The information is really first rate and I find it unbelievable that the journals, particularly the Women's journals, haven't picked up most of the information.

I haven't read so much since I was reading for my degree many years ago! It's nice that i can help others with the information that I sift out.

Had a good gym session this morning, taking it easier but still with as much determination to succeed. Then it rained and we got a little damp on the walk by the seaside to the little cafe on the pier, but we don't shrink very much and the exercise and togetherness all help.

Have burbled enough for now, I feel more like my old self but I still miss the closeness of our little group. Pauline would tell me not to be so soft!

Going to read some more and do the PM for you.

Take real good care of those wrists as well as the rest of you.

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Hi Carrie,

Nice to hear from you again. I think that I was slightly shocked that Eileen had decided to leave us but I'll get over that. I just hope that Eileen will perk up again. I think that I'll copy my yesterday's blog and email it to her because there is some quite useful information in there.

Well done you for managing to write such a good blog under such pressure. I'm still not sure about the strontium and I'm hoping that you will give us a good report on it eventually. Reading and writing take up a large chunk of every day at the moment. It will be worth it long-term.

I like your comments on your doctor's procedure, it sounds like a good plan. I've just come back from the surgery after having to demand a copy of the reports of a set of blood tests I had done at the cardio-vascular clinic. I don't know why they resist, they have to give them or I'll set the legal beagles on them. Anyway they caved in and I have the results. They were all within the set limits but the one about which I was concerned was well down at the low end and this was the one suggested as being responsible for my OP. This suggests that I have an insensitivity to the androgen supplement that I have been using since 1996. So I'll have to fully implement plan B which is part of my overall OP plan. (This is the removal of the prime cause of my OP and involves using twice as much dope on two days, Monday and Friday, Morning and Evening). This is similar to female HRT but for men, which has the same effect if it's too low. I'm glad in a way that it showed up towards the low end otherwise I would have been wondering if there was something else amiss.

As in my missive to Kathleen, Pauline is now on K2 as well.

I'll send you the details of the K2 book that I got from Anhaga just in case you want to look at a copy in the library. The information is really first rate and I find it unbelievable that the journals, particularly the Women's journals, haven't picked up most of the information.

I haven't read so much since I was reading for my degree many years ago! It's nice that i can help others with the information that I sift out.

Had a good gym session this morning, taking it easier but still with as much determination to succeed. Then it rained and we got a little damp on the walk by the seaside to the little cafe on the pier, but we don't shrink very much and the exercise and togetherness all help.

Have burbled enough for now, I feel more like my old self but I still miss the closeness of our little group. Pauline would tell me not to be so soft!

Going to read some more and do the PM for you.

Take real good care of those wrists as well as the rest of you.

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Hi Carrie,

Nice to hear from you again. I think that I was slightly shocked that Eileen had decided to leave us but I'll get over that. I just hope that Eileen will perk up again. I think that I'll copy my yesterday's blog and email it to her because there is some quite useful information in there.

Well done you for managing to write such a good blog under such pressure. I'm still not sure about the strontium and I'm hoping that you will give us a good report on it eventually. Reading and writing take up a large chunk of every day at the moment. It will be worth it long-term.

I like your comments on your doctor's procedure, it sounds like a good plan. I've just come back from the surgery after having to demand a copy of the reports of a set of blood tests I had done at the cardio-vascular clinic. I don't know why they resist, they have to give them or I'll set the legal beagles on them. Anyway they caved in and I have the results. They were all within the set limits but the one about which I was concerned was well down at the low end and this was the one suggested as being responsible for my OP. This suggests that I have an insensitivity to the androgen supplement that I have been using since 1996. So I'll have to fully implement plan B which is part of my overall OP plan. (This is the removal of the prime cause of my OP and involves using twice as much dope on two days, Monday and Friday, Morning and Evening). This is similar to female HRT but for men, which has the same effect if it's too low. I'm glad in a way that it showed up towards the low end otherwise I would have been wondering if there was something else amiss.

As in my missive to Kathleen, Pauline is now on K2 as well.

I'll send you the details of the K2 book that I got from Anhaga just in case you want to look at a copy in the library. The information is really first rate and I find it unbelievable that the journals, particularly the Women's journals, haven't picked up most of the information.

I haven't read so much since I was reading for my degree many years ago! It's nice that i can help others with the information that I sift out.

Had a good gym session this morning, taking it easier but still with as much determination to succeed. Then it rained and we got a little damp on the walk by the seaside to the little cafe on the pier, but we don't shrink very much and the exercise and togetherness all help.

Have burbled enough for now, I feel more like my old self but I still miss the closeness of our little group. Pauline would tell me not to be so soft!

Going to read some more and do the PM for you.

Take real good care of those wrists as well as the rest of you.

Kindest Regards

Colin.

She had a problem with her esophagus before she started taking the fosamax. She said it is supposed to be fine. She argued it must be safe as all her friends took it so that makes it okay.

I don't know when she stopped taking it and she is not saying. 

She can be very difficult and not confiding so I know very little.

She will not listen to me so little point of saying much. She is competitive when there is no need to be. I think you are imagining a different kind of sister lol.

I am continuing to listen and read and wait. My osteoporosis is quite bad so I would not rule out having to change my direction but trying the natural way for a year and then checking again.

My GP commented that the half life was good in that it would protect my sister for a while yet even though she has stopped. I suspect my sister's daughter has researched fosamax and been instrumental in her mother stopping.

My sister does not have a diagnosis for her present unwellness but she is responding to pramin tablets. It may or may not be related to the fosamax.

My GP accepts my choice not to take fosamax.

Maybe there will be a breakthrough soon for a safe drug. Here's hoping!

In the meantime, trying K2 and the rest of the supplements as well as some real food.

Hello Kathleen,

I tend to follow an old adage which goes like "Trust no-one, not even yourself, double checking is usually good for everyone". I initially didn't have a lot of choice but soon found out that I hadn't followed my own rule. I am now 100% convinced that I am on the right track and the longer it goes on, the better it gets. I actually feel good most of the time and I am reviewing my way while giving some help in the form of links to another sufferer.

I believe that the K2 is magic and it has only been rediscovered after 70 years when it was believed that it was something else. The book is really good, well-written and factual. I'm actually enjoying reading it.

Going to do a bit more research

Bye

Colin

 

Hi Kathleen,

​Apologies for butting in here lol interesting re your sister and the GP.  Same arguments I came up against as everyone in the medical professiona telling me that the benefits outweighed the risks, and intimated that I would be a fool not to try it! lol  Be interesting as to what the Rheumatologist says next month when I see him/her.  I have a strong suspicion that my OP is down to me being given steroids as a child and half my adult life, to control my asthma   So bit of a rock and a hard place with that as IF my asthma worsened, i may have no choice but to go back on the darn things again   Why I take so much Vitamin C etc, to try and ward off bugs etc.  Prednisalone has a lot to answer for, thinning the skin and making weak muscles in older age   My Dad suffered terribly with the after effects but had little choice.  Thankfully he did not develop OP too.

​Like you, my OP not good, but I am trying the natural way and what works for me, as well as taking HRT which for the next few years I am hoping will offer some protection. 

Good luck your end!  And like you, I sincerely hope there is a break through with a safe drug soon!!

​kind regards Carrie

Hi Colin,

Gosh a dismal wet day here!

​I am hopeful that in time Eileen may pop back on when things a little less chaotic her end.  Support is so important

​Glad your gym session went well...and your walking   LOL re shrinking!! Something we can be glad of eh lol

​I am also glad to hear that you feel more like your old self!  Things are constantly changing but it doesn't mean support does   The support you have - we all have! - on here is amazing

​Thank you with the K2; I am sure Jean sent me a link but unfortunately I still haven't had time to follow thru.  Something I am hoping to rectify soon!

​I am carrying on with that and the zinc etc as it does seem to be so beneficial.   I am not surprised re your GP surgery   Unfortunately it does seem to be the case that unless we push, they fob us off   Very demoralising.  Especially if we are uncertain whether to push or not   I seem to have had little help from my own surgery over the years; just get fobbed off with NHS cutbacks   Especially if they don't know how to help or what to do....another reason I like to go along armed with information and facts if I can  lol

​Re the strontium, it is the strontium citrate, the natural form, that was suggested in one of the links you sent me, and the information I obtained from Jean.  It is purely a mineral supplement.  So not sure if I will know if it is helping or not .....jury out.  The strontium renalate I believe can be not too dissimilar to the AA, but if I am wrong please correct me!  I seem to be rather befuddled a lot with information at the moment thanks to my M.E./Fibro brain fog brain!!

​Better go deal with the laundry   Do take care and have a good day

Hope Pauline's joints not too bad or playing up in this wetter weather.

​kindest regards Carrie

 

 

You have put in a lot of time and shared your research which we are all thankful for.

it will be interesting to see how successful this all is in another year.

Butt away lol!

My GP is great. Although she is not anti the drugs she supports my decision to choose.

I am going to ask my sister straight out when she stopped taking fosamax. She may or may not tell me lol.

I have not been to see a rheumatologist, maybe later!

What is your worst tscore? Mine is -4.3 on lower back.

I also have bulging discs.

 

Thankyou for all your kind words, they do give me some encouragement to carry on with the searching and extraction that I do. I am not averse to using things that I have seen in other posts although I will try to give credit when I do.

If things just continue as they are for a year, I can realistically expect that there should be a significant improvement in my T-scores although I may have to use 'tactics' to get another scan when the year is up.

I am somewhat concerned about the AA that I took for five months before realising what was happening. I know that like your sister, it will still be there for years to come, I just hope that it will not interfere with my natural recovery. I have read that with the correct vitamins and minerals, the new bone will deposit on top of that affected by the AA, thus burying it and eventually replacing it as part of the bone cycle. I actually find it fscinating and have found out more about my body in the last five months than I ever thought could happen.

Take great care

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Maybe because you took it for such a short time there will be no repercussions.

I cannot imagine it would have much impact after such a short time.

On the plus side it may have reduced your osteopenia a little and as your scores were not bad you may have benefitted all round.

Hope so!

Hi Carrie,

It's always good to hear from you. I had an interesting post from Kathleen earlier and I've just finished replying to that. I also had a request for information from Mariana who is new to this site and has osteoporosis. I've enquired as to her condition and sent her some links along with a precis of my program. I can't remember if i sent you a copy of that or whether you would be interested if I didn't. It's easily accessible in a text file which copies perfectly to posts or messages.

It's quite good to review things because I do tend to forget some of the items that I said and did a while ago.

How are your wrists coming along. The calcium, vitamins D3 & K2 as well as the zinc should all be helping to rebuild the bones that were damaged. It's quite unfortunate that the people who need to know how their treatment is proceeding are the last ones to gain access to the equipment necessary to perform the tests. I suppose that this is where the USA system of health insurance wins out. If they turn awkward, you just get another provider. Here, it seems that most things are weighted against the eventual user. I shall not build up any angst, it does me and my bones harm. I'm supposed to being calm an collected so I shall use my increased hormone levels as my excuse (and that made me smile so they must be good).

Pauline and I walked into town this morning, even though her knee was paining her. She's still believes in the use it or lose it philosophy. It could take a long while before the K2 has any effect upon her OA, if ever. I think that this is a case of 'It works for some people'. Still hoping though. Of course, it drizzled a bit but the weak sun eventually came out but it's too  damp to do much in the garden. I can behead a few dandelions though and I shall do that shortly. After that I shall do some more reading. I think that I may have to apportion my time between all the various projects and books that I am covering at the moment.

Hope that I'm not boring you with all this rambling but I find that I can order my thoughts better if I have to give a little time to my burbling.

I need to attend to the rest of my emails as well

Best wishes and will chat again soon

Bye for now.

Kindest regards

Colin.

 

Hi Kathleen,

​Be interesting what your sister says.  And you are lucky to have such a supportive GP.  Mine left last year and I seem to see different ones now which is not very helpful as they don't take the time to see the whole picture, rather disconcerting.

​All I know is I'm a -4 .....but everything was thrust upon me when I broke both wrists last December just before Christmas!!!!   I had the bone scan as it seemed a good idea and the orthopaedic department sent me a form as a matter of course as I had broken bones and due to my age, but I had no inklng I may have OP as it doesn't run in my family ....tbh I was expecting them to say 'no you haven't got OP' so was dismayed when I got told I did.  Since then there has been no direct uniformity and I have been snowballed from pillar to post ie ED, orthopaedics, Dexa scan, GP - who didn't order the dexa scan so was out of the loop - etc so I am trying to take charge a bit and start at the beginning with the rheumatologist to find out what on earth is going on, why, options, and best way forward.  In the meantime I am improving my own situation with exercise, nutrients, diet etc as best I can.  Onwards!! lol

​ouch re your bulging discs.

​Take care Kathleen and hope you have a good week.

​kind regards Carrie 

Hi Colin,

​Not at all with your chat - lovely to hear from you   Apologies it has taken me a little while to respond but ...as is the case at the moment....events conspire against me! lol

​I quite agree with Pauline's philosophy, my Mother used to say the same thing; her 'one finger one thumb keep moving' saying has kept me going many a time when pain was overwhelming.

​I do hope so with the K2 etc; be interesting if the rheumatologist I see next month suggests another scan or whether - as I suspect more - it will be a quick 'conveyor belt' appt...but whatever, I am trying to take charge! lol

​Suffering slightly more with my left wrist today; but since the physio told me it could take ages for it all to heal properly moreso as I had the operation on the left and pins put in and taken out, so all the soft tissue is still being somewhat stubborn  

​Just about to head out for some groceries and at least the sun has come out so hoping it stays as the drizzle first thing was not nice.  I hope it stays dry your end so you can have a walk again   You are so lucky to be by the sea - so much nicer to go walking with gorgeous scenery to enjoy

​Yes indeed with the proportioning of time; it is very hard as I know.  We are all very grateful to you for your time and energy in the links etc.    And yes please with your findings so far

Do take care!

​kindest regards Carrie

Thanks for all that!

We are similar in that my tscores are similar to yours and I was shocked that I even had osteoporosis.

The response from my sister lol was to ignore my question as to when she stopped the fosamax. Maybe she has not stopped!

I have not seen a specialist yet.

I suspect the bulging discs cause more trouble than the osteoporosis.

 

Hello Carrie,

Nice to hear from you again.

I didn't get to post much yesterday because I had a message from the Roumanian lady Mariana. She is living in Austria and would like some help. Apparently she had read some of my blogs and was so impressed that she decided to make contact. So I spent my free time yesterday writing back to her and putting the finishing touches to My Story parts 1 and 2 which I shall PM to you as soon as I've done here. The third part isn't quite finished as it covers my time in Patient and various other bits.and pieces.

We did go out in the very fine drizzle for our Sunday walk and had a lovely pair of skate wings for lunch. I didn't do much extra exercise at home cos it was too damp and I preferred to answer some queries.

I managed to get to the Gym this morning and had a good session. It does seem that the increase in the androgen level is beginning to work since I felt quite fired up and almost raring to go. It's still pretty miserable here but is lightening a bit so will keep hoping.

I commented to Pauline about the problems that you have had with your wrists and she was really concerned that you were able to manage alright. I think she suddenly realised how bad it could be not having the use of your hands.

I like the taking charge idea, it's time these people realised who owns the bodies that they so glibly use for their experimental medications.

Both Pauline and Wendy are now taking Vitamin K2. The book that I got is really good and it is very easy to see why this vitamin is so important.. I'll send you the precis that I sent to Mariana so that you can see what's happening.(I couldn't remember if I already sent it to you, if I did, just ignore it).

Take lots of care and I may chat again later if I have time.

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Hi Carrie,

It seems that there will be a Part 4 since there is a limit of 8000 words in a message.

Regards

Colin

Hi Kathleen,

​It's a change of way of Life isn't it  

​Hope you don't suffer too much with pain and discomfort this week.  Take care

​kind regards Carrie

Hi Colin,

​LOL I have just read with interest

​kindest regards Carrie

Hi Colin,

​Just responded in message - impressed with your story

​I have got a note of the book you mentioned and as and when will try and obtain a copy.  Seems odd that if this vitamin is so important to our bodies and can help so much why the dr's don't tell us about it   Save their time and ours possibly!  LOL re taking charge; yes I am trying as best I can, only way I know, and helped with the M.E./Fibro management so hoping it will here too, plus once I know the bottom/base line, and options then I can make informed decisions far easier then being flung in at the deep end so to speak!! lol

​Bless Pauline.  It was a horrible time   I was totally helpless and relying totally on friends, neighbours and family for everything - couldn't even use a knife and fork for ages after the casts came off   I never want to be that helpless again   Like a babe, unable to do anything for myself   Guess that is partly why I want to take charge now!

Well done on helping Mariana

​And I'm so glad the gym and the hormones are beginning to help   I am able to use my albeit small hand weights a bit more and the home made device - based on something the physio had - I am happy to report I can gradually lift heavier weights.  It is basically an old kitchen roll with string and a bag with wrist weight and...ahem...c size batteries which started as one battery on top of weight now I am up to 3 batteries   Must weigh it and see what I am lifting now :D lol  Still have days when in more pain and I have to cut back, but pressing on as best as

​Do take care and love to Pauline, I hope she is not suffering too much.  Enjoy your pm   kindest regards Carrie

Hi Carrie, introducing myself to you as I saw Aristotle mentioned me to you. As he said ,I have OP and very afraid to take the awful medication that is on the market .I habe OP for 10 y now but I delayed the treatment as much as I was able .My DR wants me on medication as my last scan showed -3,2 in my spine and almost the same in my hips. I started to read a lot and searching for forums. I found this one and saw that you are o nice gruop of very helpful and kind people. I saw Aristotle telling to one of the ladies that he would send some helpful links and Iask him to help me learn as much as possible.And he was so nice ,right the way sent me links and now I have a lot  to read and study .And eventually to take care of my OP in a natural way . I have read here many threads and I am  sorry to see how much pain experience everybody and also a struggle to get better . Thank you to all of you and I wish you all the best in the world.

Thanks Carrie, I hope your week is good too!

Hi Carrie,

I think that you are very innovative and I'm impressed that you are coping so well with such a disabling problem as you have had. I hope that all your attemps to cure your OP are successful so that you can fully enjoy a 'normal' life again. Are you still on AA, I sometimes forget what I've been told and there is so much going around my mind that things which are just mentioned in conversation can easily get driven out.

I've been chatting to Mariana again, she raised some salient points in my story and I've recapped and come up with information that I had pushed out my immediate memory.

Phone just went - need to go and pick up Pauline & shopping. Chat later

Bye

Kindest Regards

Colin

Hi Mariana,

Nice to meet you

​I agree the meds the Dr's want us to take are horrible, and it is so worrying especially when our dexa scan show such low results   I am a -4 apparently so am doing the best I can but have an awful feeling that the rheumatologist next month may have a persuasive manner about him   I want to arm myself as much as possible with the best way forward and want to do things the natural way if possible.

​Colin is a mine of information and so helpful   Lovely you found our group and yes everyone is kind and thoughtful.  Good luck to you and stay in touch! 

​kind regards Carrie

Hi Colin,

Needs must! lol 

​No, I stopped the AA pretty soon after starting.  It was then I started taking the K2, Zinc, etc, and tried to improve my exercise.  I fear a 'normal' life may not be happening...although I guess it depends on ones definition of 'normal'! lol

​With you on the so much going on, forgetting.  I am doing that so much at the moment.  I read something that takes me off on another direction, then I realise I didn't finish my first thought! 

Hope Pauline didn't get too wet out - just got to finish putting my bits away   Spk soon

​kindest regards Carrie 

Thank you very much for answering  . I will stay definitely in touch .I am eager to learn as much as  possible from other people's exeperinces .Sorry to hear you have such a DEXA result .I have fear also about this DEXA machines as in the past I had a DEXA which showed -4 in some zones --since then I went (I was sent ) to another DEXA machine .Now I stick with the new one for 2 year  ,this one shows -3 and -3,2 .It was the same 2 y ago and it is the same this year . I am worried this machines are not exactly accurate . I have to make a search reagrding this subject .It is frustrating . Take care and thank you again .( You had some fractures ?i f I recall well ? )

Hi Mariana,

​My pleasure   I'm eager too so any info you may have also gratefully received   That is interesting that you had differing results on your Dexa scan...I wonder why.  Gives me a new insight as to how trustworthy these Dexa machines are.  Yes I broke both my wrists last December just before Christmas  Been a very hard, painful 6 months   I was thrust in at the deep end on this OP, only going along to have a scan as it was mentioned in the orthopaedic department where I was going to get my wrists checked.  When I asked my GP for results I was sure I would be told 'no' so was shocked to be told 'yes'.  All this is very much a learning curve for me so, yes, any info you come up with as to dexa machines please let me know

Take care and have a good pm.

​kind regards Carrie

Hi Carrie,

Please ignore my PM regarding Eileen, It wasn't really fair of me to ask your opinion and I've sent an email to her anyway.

I was chatting to Mariana earlier and she was enquiring about my Ph meter which seems to be reading a little on the high side so I need to get hold of some distilled or de-ionised water to get a base-line figure. I could probably get some at a car accessary shop cos they use it in the lead acid batteries as top-up. Will have toe look into that.

I passed on your good wishes to Pauline and she seemed pleased, it had stopped raining here so she didn't get wet.

I haven't heard from Anhaga for a while but I'm in touch with Kathleen quite often. I haven't heard from Patty or Jill much but they are probably on other threads or conversations.

I did contact a Wendy who was looking for assistance. She is on Alendronic Acid and is having difficulties just like the rest of us, so I left a link the this thread. There's lots of good stuff and lots of links to various alternatives.  The sun is out and I need to go and cut the foot high grass. Bye for now

Kindest Regards

Colin

Hi Colin,

​It wasn't silly at all, and I hopefully replied as much in my message to you   I'm happy to give of my opinion so please don't worry

​Good luck at getting your distilled water.  I am full of admiration as to your strength of purpose at fighting this

​I hope Pauline's arthritis isn't playing up too much, mine is unfortunately hence shorter messages at the moment.  Don't know whether she finds the same, but I seem to get flares now and then, quite often with a change in air pressure, and it becomes so painful

​I think I saw a post from Wendy, but I haven't got round to catching up on posts/links yet.  Had to have a bit of a rest this pm after the ordeal of shopping earlier!  I should have waited as the sun has come out now and I was out in the rain earlier!! lol

​Good luck with your grass cutting

​kindest regards Carrie

Hi Carrie,

Many thanks again, I managed to get out while it was sunny, in my T-shirt and Shorts no less, vitamin D galore. I ranout of time and didn't finish before our meal was ready but I got all the top and some of the slopes done so that there isn't much to finish tomorrow or whenever but not before my trip to the gym. Concerns have been expressed about impact jumping but I think that with my exercise history, I should be OK as long as I'm careful and don't overdo it.

I have obtained a small paperback book about exercises which I've begun reading and found that there are a lot of seated exercises and other graded activities including for those with advanced osteoporosis. I shall continue educating myself and let you know what I think when I've finished it. I'll PM you the details.

I've just been helping Pauline to chop carrots and weigh things for tomorrows evening meal. She is going to York with Wendy on a shopping trip and wants most of the preparation done for when they arrive back.

Going to do some more reading now - The vitamin K2 book and the exercise book.

Take good care of your bones and thanks again - It's funny but the answer is obvious once it's been pointed out!

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Hi Colin,

You're welcome

Yes be careful with impact jumping....sounds like you are getting quite a lot of exercise anyway, so no point in overdoing it.

Oh yes please re any other graded exercises

​Pauline is a woman after my own heart - just the sort of thing I would do...get organised!! lol  Hope she has a lovely time   Retail therapy always good for the soul

​You are right...we just have to take better care of ourselves which includes inside as well as out....just about to dish evening meal here, so enjoy your reading

​kindest regards Carrie

Hi Carrie,

I am sorry to hear about your wrist .How did that happen ? Did you fall? I think you had a very bad time .How did they treat you?

About DEXA --I have to wait a little time .Although DEXA is not dangerous ,still I had this year MRI ,a CT scan also for another condition so I will wait and guess what? I will have a DEXA with another machine ,the third one . I am so curious that I cannot wait for .They say the tehnician is not important from the moment he or she knows how to start the maschine . I made the last 2 DEXA with the same machine  but the tehnician was different .And the score was almost identic. They told me to stick with the same machine from now .But I am curious . Good night and take care .

Carrie,

I know what you mean about arming yourself with as much info as possible.  I saw my dr. today and she is SOOOO determined that I start Prolia.  I am JUST NOW finding out about K2 and even strontium....  so many things I am doing differently for my health in the last few months.  I want to add those things and keep on keepin' on for a while.  

That study about micronutrients that Colin directed me to the other day was a world of encouragement!  I printed it out and took it to the dr. today, but I failed to ask her to realllly look at it....... Maybe she will read through it.  Who knows....  

Here I am!!!!!  :-)

Hi Jill,

​Its a nightmare isn't it....especially when our doctors are so determined on a particular course of action.  I need to go thru my nutrients, I know I need to up some of them.  Jury is out on strontium I am taking, the natural, not the prescribed stuff! lol  Only started recently and unsure effect it is having.  I will keep it up tho.  Colin is a mine of information   So useful So are you still not taking the Prolia?  Good for you if not, for standing firm   Take care!  Hope you have a good day.  Very tired this end so think I need to rest a bit more today.

​kind regards Carrie

Hi Mariana,

​Well, you got to laugh in a way, I tripped over a Christmas present!!  I had been rushing around, doing bits, wrapping, just put some tea on, went to do something else, reached awkwardly, stepped back, tripped and fell right back!   Don't recommend it!!! lol   I try to take far more care now, and if I feel myself trying to hurry, deliberately slow down as no way do I want a repeat!   Couldn't fault the ED, and friends and family rallied round and were brilliant.  At least I got out of cooking Christmas lunch eh! lol  (said slightly tongue in cheek!!)

​I am certainly curious about your experiences about Dexa, does make one wonder, so it coudl be the technician rather than the machine?  Or just a slightly faulty machine?  Do let us know how you get on with your next one. 

​You take care and have a good day

​kind regards Carrie

Hello Jill

Nice to be in touch again. Sometimes I miss a connection to another thread and can easily loose touch with people, This happened with you for a short while.

I can't rememer if I told you that I am taking the natural route and have mapped out suitable exercise and diet, including supplements that should point my body toward a total cure of OP. As far as I can tell, the most important nutrient that we can take is the K2 vitamin since that is in overarching control of what happens to the calcium, zinc, bones and many other things some of which are incredibly important to me. Here I'm talking about the ability of this vitamin to clear out the atheroma from your cardiac arteries, it puts the calcium where it should be and even helps with memory,  I got a book (surprise) dealing with this wonder vitamin and even though I'm less than half-way through I find that I am convinced that K2 is probably the single most important vitamin that is missing from most Western diets. Of course, we all still need vitamins D3, B, zinc, Boron, copper and lots of others but this K2 is now mostly missing from our diet and that is getting worse since most of our animals from where we used get K2, including chickens, are pellet fed instead of being on good green grass. I think I may be overstating my point somewhat but it does seem that if this had been pushed sooner, many of us would not now be being pressured to fill our bodies with chemicals used to clean car engines.

There, rant is over, how are you keeping? I hope that things are going well. I now have a version of my story which is a bit verbose and takes up 4 pages and is only published by PM. If you are interested, let me know.

I'm still collating and sorting all the posts that I have collected and there is a lot of information there, maybe enough to write a book but at the rate I go, being so incredibly nosey, it could take years.

Lunch-time for me and I'm cooking my own - gluten-free pasta.

Take care, let me know what you think.

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Oh Carrie ,

Thank you for telling me what happened. I am so afraid of falling . I am very fast and active and I have to slow down with my t-score . I can imagine how hard was for you .It is good to have friends and family for time like this . Are you Ok now completly? Can you cook a little bit ? How do you manage going shopping? Regarding treatments for OP I didn/t hear about too many people who actually improved their t-score ,I think just people taking FORTEO are doing better on DEXA aftre 2 y of treatment . And after FORTEO one still have to take something else. I stop talking  right here not to be too boring   and I whish you good night .

Hi Mariana, if I might just butt in a little, I have only come across two with better T-scores since I joined this site but since I joined I have seen and encouraged and joined several other members in rejecting the bisphosphonates and taking the natural path. There haven't been any arguments about AA causing brittle bones and I haven't found anyone who likes it although a few people do defend its use. If we do have a few successes, it may encourage others to follow. Not enough is made of the FACT that osteoporosis is a curable condition.

Talk again soon

Aristotle

aka Colin.

Hi Colin ,

I  definitely  made a mistake when I wrote to Carrie .I meant --I do not see many people with medication improving their score ,,so I was asking myself  why doctors are persuing us to take those awful medication of they do not impove at all the t -score .This is  why I mentioned after that FORTEO ,because I was thinking about treatments. Treatments that I would like to avoid completly .

Hi Mariana

I wasn't taking you to task, just telling as it is, but hopefully we are not only going to beat this condition that we have, but hopefully make it obvious that there is no use for bisphosphonates. It's a little unfortunate that the depositing of calcium is such a slow process but hopefully it will show an improvement for me in October. It won't be for lack of trying. I shall not prepare myself for the possibility of failure until very close to my rescan date. I'm hoping that our group will be even coser by then and also that all knowlege is flowing freely between participants. I see it that the more that the knowledge is shared, the easier things are for me. I'm sorrt if i'm going on a bit but I feel quite passionate about this, particularly since I see some fat cats benefitting at the expense of the misery of others.

I can and do go on at length to anyone who will take notice. I'd better go and do some more cataloguing and collating.

Have a good night

Kindest Regards

Colin

How many times have I used 'Hopefully'?

I ought to proof read before I post, quite a few keyboard errors in the post.

It is good that you are passionate about this whole thing ,we all should be .And we benefit from your it as we can learn from you. I have to be more ferm about a gym program . I am a little stiff especially in the morning ,my back hurts ,I have bad posture (with a minor scoliosis since childhood and kifosis also which is more visible now that I am shorter with 5 cm )so definitely I need to make a commitment to a daily program.I do correct my posture hundred times a day as I feel better when I stay straight but I have to biuld  strong back muscles .Have a nice day .

I  " eat "sometimes words ..and I should  proof read also

Hello Mariana, the posture thing is of concern to me since I have become quite round shouldered which doesn't help my height and probably causes compression of the discs in my spine. I haven't studied the spine in detail but think that it's maybe time that I began to take an active interest in that so that I at least know what is going on.

I have just read an article about a study which finished in January, about Melatonin and Osteoporosis. The results haven't been published yet but the lead-in article suggests that melatonin and strontium may be the way forward. I'll definitely have to keep an eye on that.

Going out for lunch today - my daughter's treat to me for Father's Day (Sunday) so will put off my exercise until I come back. A little skipping will settle things nicely as well as being beneficial to my bones.

Bye for now

Kindest Regards

Colin

Hi Mariana,

​Thank you.  I suffer with osteo arthritis too as well as M.E. and Fibro...and asthma, which could be how the OP developed thru me being given huge doses of prednisalone as a child

​I am still trying to get my hands/wrists back to normal and still going to physio, but compared to how I was I am hugely improved I can cook, etc, etc, and am even gently driving again   Although there is still pain,and I can't lift anything too heavy.  Any small progress I am thrilled with   I get help with shopping from my brother and very kind neighbour. 

​Forteo....is that the same as AA?  Sorry I forget it comes under so many different guises. 

​I am hoping thru following a healthier way of Life to improve my T score and I am also on HRT which supposedly helps!

​Hope you have a good day there, take care! 

kind regards Carrie

 

Hi Mariana and Colin,

​I think the Dr's are mislead by the drug companies in the belief that the AA and the like will help control future falls, but I don't think I read anywhere that it changes the present bone structure.  Following the healthy option, including K2 etc, seems to indicate that we have our future in our hands and can indeed change things for the better

At least, that is how I read it!

No worries re the typing....I am forever doing that!  lol

​kind regards Carrie 

Me too!   But time runs away with me!! lol

kindest regards Carrie

Hi Colin and Mariana

​Me too re the posture as I spent years doubled over trying to breathe with asthma problems so am very round shouldered.  I do dance a bit so try to stand straight and improve my posture that way, I also follow....I think it was Jill but I may be wrong, who said that she tried to stand straight and pull her shoulders back like she was showing off a pretty necklace   When I go out walking, I try to do that...or try to remember to do that! lol

​Dancing can be good in that ballet positions mean you have to stand straight, well as best one can

​It is a shame that melatonin is not available in this Country   Interesting what you say about the article mentioning it along with Strontium, please keep me posted   Was that the strontium renalate or citrate?

​Have a fabulous lunch   And enjoy Father's Day

​I must look at skipping again......just uncertain with the OA.

Enjoy your days both of you.

​kindest regards Carrie 

Hi Carrie ,

Forteo=Teriparatide --Does not belong to AA class of medicine .

Teriparatide is similar to human parathyroid hormone (PTH) . It looks like this drug work by improving t-score. But has  side effects and it is not supposed to be taken more than 2 years.This medication has been found to cause an increased risk of bone cancer in animal studies. It is not known if this risk is also increased in humans treated with Forteo. Who would consider such a treatment with such wornings......Oh ,you really suffered a lot of illnesses .I am sorry to hear that but you seem to be in a very positive mood .That is very good.Talk to you later have to run ..Bye.

Hello Carrie, It's always nice to read your posts. You reminded me of some of the things that we did when we 20 years younger. We used to go ballroom dancing and thoroughly enjoyed it. unfortunately, the dance teacher tried to push forward too quickly and we had difficulty remembering the steps which is not the way I do things so we eventually quit. I used to cut a mean tango!I Your brother sounds like a real star, you were lucky to such good relations who are prepared to rally round and assist where necessary.

Melatonin is available from biovea, I can PM you a link if you want to look at it, both liquid and tablet form. I need to re-read the strontium papers again and then I may have to consider another change. It's a good job that the plan is quite fluid and easily modifiable. It was strontium citrate and I don't know if I can get it on the nhs, It could stand a little more examination.

I was interested to hear your wrist story, I'm so busy with me and my discoveries that I kept forgetting to ask you., but glad to hear that they are healing and slowly getting stronger. I've come across the necklace story before and the idea is sound, just forget the necklace, I'll have a gold medal for gabbing!.

We've been out for a lovely lunch to a country pub about 7 miles outside Scarborough. I was treat like a king and had Chile pork chops with chips & peas and thoroughly enjoyed it. All things that I liked and could eat. There were presents and cards as well so I had a super time. When we got home, I even got the rest of the grass cut before the collection wagon arrived, so I've had a good day. The grass cutting will have to do for today's exercise, particularly since I had the grass bin out the front and carrying the mower bin full of grass up a one in three hill about ten times is hard work. I'm not complaining, there's not a thing I can do about the heat and Rain (Yet).

You are correct when you comment that you read that AA doesn't change the bone structure, it just changes the way that the osteoclasts that remove calcium, work, so that the bone stays and ages and crystalises and becomes weak and fractures. That does ignore all the other nasties that AA does. I gather that if you stop taking the drug, in time the affected bone is eventually built over and recycled in the normal way, it just takes a lot of time.

Please do be really, really careful if you try skipping. You could undo all the good work over the last few months.

I've chatted to a few people today about various bits but nothing that was a great exertion. I'm saving that until tomorrow at the gym and then our gardens and sea-front walk. Have actually developed muscles on my legs that I had never noticed before.

Thanks for your good wishes, we intend to enjoy our days together as long as Pauline is able. She's going to see her doctor again to see about the long term and what can be done.

will talk again after the gym, unless I think of something else important.

Have a good night.

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Yep, still NOT taking the prolia......  just can't!

Colin,

How much K2 are you taking???  

Forteo did me a world o f good, but after two years, bones decreased again. I don't know after one year, because a dexa wasn't done....  I should have insisted....  

Carrie,

It wasn't me who said that about standing up straight like showing off a pretty necklace, but a GREAT IDEA!!!!!  I am probably going to get a brace from the dr. office.  I got fitted for one.....  It forms to my crooked spine the way it is, and then over time, i should need it adjusted because I will "learn" to stand up straighter with more awareness and reminder of the brace.  It also pulls the shoulders back gently, but surely!  She said I would only need to wear it an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening.  

It was me. It is such an easy exercise which takes only a few minutes to do.

Men can do it too. Just pretend it is a different kind of necklace.

The other one is using light weights and doing arm curls and lifts.

As I am struggling with motivation I suggest doing it at the same time each day. I will aim for just before lunch.

Hi Mariana,

Ahhh...hadn't heard of Forteo or Teriparatide before....thanks.

I try to be positive ....some days easier than others!! lol

You take care and hope you have a good day.

kind regards Carrie

Hi Jill,

​Don't blame you!

Wish there was a simple answer!!

Hope today a better day for you.

​kind regards Carrie

Hi Kathleen,

​Ahh!  I couldn't remember who   What I have been trying to do, nice to have someone else on my brain wave!! lol

​Too right with men too.....just puff out their chests

​I have been doing arm curls behind and lifting, with my elbow by my side, is that what you meant? 

​Yea, I have a list the physio gave me for my wrists/arms/shoulders which I try to do 2 - 3 times a day dependant.  Evenings whilst watching TV works quite well!! And yes, like you, before lunch.  There are other exercises I should also try but tbh time runs away with me....if I manage a walk to, and fitting day to day Life in .....there aren't enough hours in the day

​Hope today a good day for you

​kind regards Carrie

Hi Jill,

​Kathleen and I were on the same wave length lol  It isn't always easy...especially when walking uphill (!) but I try   I also wear an across the shoulder bag now, and only carry what I need.  Wearing a shoulder bag for years didn't really do my poor shoulders any good

That is interesting re your brace....does it seem to be helping ? 

​Actually I got a sports bra a few years back, and didn't like it as that did a similar thing, I ought to dig it out again and try wearing for only a short period of time, like your brace, that way it might train me better, without suffering too much pain if I wear it all day.

​Hope your day a good one!

​kind regards Carrie

Hi Colin,

​I am blessed with such a good brother   And yes, dancing I love   Shame about your ballroom...maybe you should try a different teacher or class or just go to a local dance if they have any, for fun?  Pauline might enjoy it too ?   I know they hold dances in our local village hall but I am normally too tired in the evening to go.

Yes please re melatonin - I didn't think one could get it!  So thank you

​My strontium citrate I bought....it get so expensive all these supplements

LOL re the medal!  With all your hard work and effort you deserve a real one, so yes, try the medal/necklace idea!

​So pleased you had such a lovely time out   It is so nice to be pampered isn't it   Sounds like a good day - even with the grass cutting!  Well done!

​I'm not about to try the skipping yet so please don't worry, baby steps with it all.  I did wonder about a new pair of tap shoes though! lol  I used to tap dance years ago....!

​I thought so with the AA....nasty stuff   Wish they didn't want to push it so much, makes it hard when you are struggling and looks for a helpful drug, and they try and brow beat us with this  

​I hope Pauline gets on ok at the Dr.....has she tried turmeric at all?  Someone else I was speaking to was going to try and golden paste - it even works on animals so there must be something in it!  Certainly I think that it does seem to help my pain levels, as when I stopped it, I was in far more pain.  Seems like nature has its own cures if we can find them

Hope the gym ok, and enjoy your walk

​I am hopefully going to Cornwall next weekend with a friend so am really looking forward to seeing the sea and enjoying some sea air

Have a good day ! 

​kindest regards Carrie

 

Hi Jill

Sorry to hear that Forteo did not work for long term.How do you know that it had worked? Did you have a Dexa right after treatment? And how do you know that had decreased the density now? Thank you very much for your precious time.

Hello Jill,

Just got in from our Friday walk after the gym session.

Packet here says Vitamin K2, 75 microgram (100% NRV) of natural source MK-7, so it's k2-7.

NRV is Nutrient Reference Value, I believe that this is like the recommended daily amount.

Swallow one capsule daily with water. Recommended intake should not be exceeded.

Bought the K2 book and it seems to be pretty conclusive that we all need it whether you have bones problems or not. It's good for cardiac and other artery atheroma and calcium problems as well as the brain. You still need all the recommended vitamins to effect your bones repair.

All to do with animals that we eat no longer being fed on lush green grass.

I'm going on again aren't I.

All the best

Colin

Well done for not taking the prolia, have you got a fall-back plan? (not a pun).

This man is doing both things!

Hello Mariana,

Glad to see that you are interacting with the othere denizens of Patient. It really is an interesting site and I usually have to tear myself away because the time just flies when you are chatting, helping and learning as well as contributing. I'm glad that you picked this area to inhabit with the rest of us.

If you've been following my posts you will have seen that today was another of my three a week gym days where I get myself hopefully fit to have some new bone constructed. I am being extremely careful not to put too much stress on the left femur head because I shall not know how it is progressing for some months yet when I hopefully have my next dexascan. That should be in early October but it may take some doing and I am not now and nor will I be in the mood to be put off. I've learnt and had enough of that which is almost as bad as the diseases.

Hope that you are getting lots of useful information to help you make your own decisions.

Have to go and collect my family now. Talk again soon

Kindest Regards

Colin

Hello Carrie

I've just been to collect Pauline and Wendy who have been at a local S supermarket cafe having afternoon tea with a friend and her daughter. The mother has advanced disease of the retina (macular degeneration) of both eyes and she is going to have a seeing eye dog in eighteen months. It brought me up short when I considered that for me, the worse thing that could happen would be the total loss of sight, followed closely by a similar thing with hearing. Bones, for all I go on about them, are quite a long way down the list. As long as I'm careful, I can deal with my bones and also those that would foist poisonous acid upon us.

I think that my mind made its own decision, not a lot to do with me, after all the answer is fairly obvious. Of course, I have quite a lot hanging on the effectiveness of vitamin K2-7 and I'm still reading, only up to page 56 and still enjoying the history lesson contained within the book. I posted a PM with a link to a site which sold melatonin. If you rake around that site, there are quite a few options but I didn't know exactly what you were after but I dare say that you will find it and if you don't, get back to me.

I haven't read any more about the Strontium (lack of time, too much poking nose in elsewhere) So far it seems feasible and may speed things up. I gather that you still need the calcium and all the other supplements. I haven't tried it in the Mediguard yet but must before I make a firm decision on that.

Cornwall is a lovely place to go as long as it's not during the school holidays. We have been on coach holidays and really enjoyed the coastal bits but never had enough time for exploring. We hope that you enjoy your trip and have some good weather as well. I wouldn't think that climbing inside copper and time mines would be on the agenda, it's easier to buy supplements.

Pauline is reluctant to try your turmeric powder as long as her gel continues to work and at the moment it is making the pain bearable for her. She didn't complain much this morning although going down the steps is quite difficult. Going back up after lunch was fairly easy and overall, we'd had a lovely walk. We get some funny looks from the youngsters because we have always held hands and still do. I don't really know why it amuses them but I also don't care as long as it makes them happy. During these walks, we often recap specific periods of our lives together and that will keep us going for another 50 years (only 48 actually in early August). We haven't been able to find any coach tours from our neck of the woods to Bournemouth. Maybe I need to search harder. Always tired after tea on gym days but still find the energy to stay awake to see M.A.S.H. and DS9 Tonight might be the exception. Just about to finish my cup of tea and watch the second MASH. It must be something about Fridays.

Take care Carrie

Kindest Regards

Colin (with eyes half closed)

Carrie,

I haven't gotten the brace yet.  I got fitted for it, but left there without it because I'm trying to prioritize all these things so the $$ won't be drained dry.  Shew!!!  

I tried a sports bra once, and that strap across the back made me CRAZY!  I canNOT do that!  

My poor shoulders are so rounded, and my upper back, too.....  I'm anxious to get that brace and start working with it.  It will require some discipline though and my husband wonders if I'll actually wear it much.  I NEED TO THOUGH!!!!  

Jill

 

Mariana,

Yes, I had a dexa after the two years were finished.  It was EXCELLENT!!!!  I didn't have one the year following (SO WISH I WOULD HAVE FOUGHT THAT DECISION!).  It has been two years now, and I had a Dexa two months ago.  And yes....  going back down again....  2-3%.  

Jill

Colin,

Thanks for the info on the amount.  I will check the amount in the supp I am taking now.  I had read in that one study that you directed me to  that they used 200.......  but I know mine is less than that.  

I found a place where I can get beef that is fed on that lush green grass.  I've just started buying my meat there!!!!  Excited!  

Jill

Hello to all,🤗🤗🤗

sorry i I haven't been around lately, have had a busy time with family over for my mams 85th birthday. She is soo much fitter than I am 🙃! 

I even donned heels for her party....not the wisest move I've made as I sprained my ankle on the walk  home 😁😁 ! Alls well now though so back on my wobble disc😀 ....physiotherapist I see is proving to be a godsend in giving me exercises to do to help Strengthen my muscles due to polymyalgia have now improved to using exercise bands to add resistance. 

Also so had a lovely couple of days in the Lake District even managed walking 5 miles each day......slept like a top at night haha!

Re  K2mk-7 ( plant based ) supplement Ive just had a look at my supplement and see I'm taking 200mcg a day as recommended by the German manufacturer .... Looking on the Internet there appears to be a lot of variance on recommended doseage!! Possibly due to reasons why people are taking it......I read that one person suggested her husband following a stroke had up to 60% clearance of brain vessel occlusion as shown by brain scans performed pre and 6 months post k2 treatment ! Sounds fantastic but care should be taken in accepting the claim as I suspect this gentleman was given other treatments also !

if anyone finds any more clarity on appropriate doseage for recommended k2 with our d3 supplements I'd be very interested to hear it 🤔

Have a great day everyone...looks like the sunshine is about to make an appearance today hear in the north east ☀️ Hurray for the sunshine vitamin!

predictive text 😳! 

Jill,

Thank you for letting me know. Excellent means that you were out of osteoporotic zone and back in osteopenia zone or even better? Is this 2-3 % bad ? It depend how many procent did you improved in those 2 years .If you improved a big amount of procents than 2-3 % maybe it is not so bad and you can stay out of treatment for meny years . Im just guessing here beacuse this whole OP problem is a huge mistery .

Hello Handbrake ,

My vitamin k2 comes from a german manufacturers also and they recommend 100 mcg per day . I am curious also how much other people are taking from this vitamin .

Take care with high heels so many people had fractures because of that .These days I had a minor switch of  muscles in my right foot  because of a sandal that was not enough tight on my foot. My doctor sais, never wear  high heels ,no slippers also .Just shoes that will keep tight my feet all over . Pretty hard ,especially with the inside shoes.

Hi Colin ,

Thanks for incouraging me to learn from this nice group of yours. Very nice and helpful people here on this chat room . Reading and following as many threads as I can .My time is tight so I have to do my best to read as much as I can . Yes, I follow all your posts .Nice that you are so determined going to gym . Also taking those beautiful long walks. Do not mind of young people looking at you two holding hands .Maybe their parents do not have such a beautiful relationship as you do .So they are wandering how many couples are out there in the world  still so happy being around their spouses.

Have a woderful weekend .

M.

Hi Patty,

Welcome back, I did wonder a little, if I'd missed your posts on a different thread but all that wondering was Pointless.

Regarding K2-7, my book says that 120 micrograms is an 'effective daily dose' and is the maximum on shelves in Canada. The book also says that this doesn't mean that you can't take more. Menopausal and post menopausal women have a higher need for K2, so taking 240 micrograms or more daily is a good idea for women who are facing the big change. Eating a single 40 gram serving of natto daily provides more than 400 micrograms of K2, if you can stand it. I know nothing about natto. Scrub that, I do now and the pictures and comments about taste and smell suggest that it's an aquired taste and you shouldn't be put off by gross appearance,

Continuing, My supplier of K2 says that 75 microgram is 100% of NRV (Nutrient Reference Value).

This all suggests that there isn't yet a definitive idea of what is the required amount to perform it's task. It does seem like a bit of a miracle vitamin and I suspect that really, the majority of the population should be supplementing their diet with this, since our traditional source has been virtually discontinued.

I think I'm on my soapbox again but I am significantly impressed with the clalims made for K2-7.

I don't know if are aware but Eileen withdrew from Patient because she was having problems with chaos. I don't know if she will come back although I have emailed some bits and pieces. The rest of our comrades in OP (+OA) are still with us and posting merrily with a serious end purpose.

Nice to welcome you back

Kindest Regards

Colin

aka Aristotle

Hi Colin,

Hope you slept, you sounded tired.  Our bodies do put us through a lot don't they.

​Do agree re eyesight; I suffer with ocular hypertension, and have to use eye drops every night to prevent glaucoma.

​Don't blame Pauline re the turmeric, as long as something works that is the important thing.  Turmeric is gaining wider recognition as a proven anti inflammatory; the BBC Dr programme have contacted the Turmeric Group to ask for further volunteers to make a programme, so it is obviously gaining recognition in the medical world too

​I did see the link re melatonin, thank you, will look into it

​I am hopeful that the K2, Zinc, Calcium etc, and the HRT will all help protect my bones, not got hold of a copy of the K2 book you recommended, but it is on my list of things to procur! lol

​That is so lovely you and Pauline still holding hands - long may it continue!  The kids are obviously just jealous of the special bond between the pair of you, something to cherish

​Maybe an opportunity for Bournemouth or similar will suddenly present itself for you both - let the Fates decide?!

​As for the tin and copper mines - think not, have also ruled out parachute jumping, sky diving, or bungee jumping!!!!! :D lol  However I do intend to have some good R & R

Off to make a cake   Enjoy your day!

​kindest regards Carrie 

 

I just responded by my reply with moderators as i mentioned a brand of K2

ho hum!  I should have known better!!

​kind regards Carrie

Hi Jill

I have quoted some figures in a post to Handbrake (Patty) (I assume you'll see them), from the K2 book. I have no idea at all how much you will get from genuine grass-fed beef. I'll have to see if that information is available. It's all the extras that could be life-savers, particularly the artery clear-out. The supplement has a half-life of a few days but our bodies don't store or recycle it. Given a free choice, the steaks sound like the better bet. I gather from the $$ signs that you are in the USA and that't where you can get some really superb steaks. Have to admit to some envy over that. Such a pity that mass production techniques of our food cause so many end problems.

I think that you should give us all a treat and describe each delicious bite of steak. I'm almost drooling at the thought. My last really good steak was at a diner in Laramie (WY) back in 1998, and that seemed perfect. Drooling at the memory.

Best Regards

Colin.

Hi Carrie,

I did have a chuckle about the bungee jumping (lovl). I really don't envisage me doing anything energetic that doesn't have a necessary effect on my bones, arteries and muscles, unless you can think of a suitable exercise to grow some more brain and include database addressing in that. Things are sinking in nicely but it is no longer instantaneous which it was once upon a time a very long time ago. This could be a fairy story but hopefully with a happy ending after I've kissed the heroin (and I don't mean the drug!).

Read the article and a bit more that Anhaga sent me the link for and found that the author disagrees with Ms Brown about the alkaline Ph test. Whilst that is a bit inconvenient, it really doesn't matter. What matters more is following the road and taking diversions occasionally as necessary and as new information comes to light. Yesterday, I was chatting to a fellow exerciser and comparing notes and discovered that I now have muscles that I hadn't realised were there before. It's probabably been developed by the effort used in the jump take-off. Just hope that the bones respond in a similar fashion. I keep recapping the things that we need just to make sure it's all there, particularly the main items, zinc, Vitamin K2, Vitamin D3, Calcium, Copper, B complex, Folic Acid, Magnesium, Phosphorus, Manganese, Boron, Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Silica. I don't take fluoride, relying on that in my food. It is just too dangerous to mess about with. (See The Book page 90).

I still like The Book as a good reference source even though some of the things have changed a bit. I also like the K2 book, it's easy reading and not as complex as the first book. I still need the time to read all the other stuff that I have. It's like reading for a degree all over again - It must be worth at least a masters!!!

I did sleep well last night and woke up fairly refreshed and ready to face a visit to town to help Pauline with the provisions (which reminds me, I haven't had my apple yet). Going to light the fire cos it's fairly chilly here and is unlikely to improve. I'd better get on with it. (just been helping to prepare the curry for tonight's evening meal). It's a busy life.

Glad that you are taking real good care of your bones. Parachute jumping indeed, what next?

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Hi Jill

​Get you re the juggling ......really hope it helps when you do get it.

​LOL re sports bra....my shoulders hurt after...so I have a feeling I thew mine out, tried it for the racer back.  Wish I'd kept them now as I'd give another got, just to wear for a short while.  Might look into it in the future.

​My shoulders are rounded too, because of the bending over from childhood trying to breathe with bad asthma   Really hard to try and correct old problems   Good luck!!!

​kind regards Carrie

Hi Colin,

​:D re parachute jumping! lol 

​Glad you slept better   Still on off for me  

​Just rechecked and am taking everything you have listed bar the silica which doesn't seem to be included in anything.  I think some of them I may have to up the dose on but that can be adjusted.  Add the strontium citrate and natural gelatin and turmeric on to my list, plus I'm taking a separate B6.  So I am hoping all bases are covered lol

​Yes that is so true re the muscles....all we can do is keep pushing forth gently.  Very hard sometimes, especially when one is tired.

Weather not the best is it   Good luck with your visit to town

​kindest regards Carrie

 

Hi Patty,

​Nice to see you back

Bless your Mum. 85, good on her   And glad you had such a lovely time in the lake district

Ouch re the heels   Not fair is it!!! lol

​Think I will stick with my 100 mcg K2 for now and the rest of what I'm taking and just see for a bit.  Can always adjust in the future if needs be.

​Does seem to be a variance you are right.  Hard sometimes to know for sure whether what we individually are doing is right or not, all we can do is trust our gut instincts.

​Send some sunshine down south plleeease! lol  Dank and dismal here! 

Enjoy your day

​kind regards Carrie

Hi Mariana,

You appear to be fitting in very well and contributing where you see an opportunity to help or offer assistance. I learnt much from following other people's posts and eventually graduated to buying books. I still read new books but use the older ones as reference so that I have information to answer queries on subjects which I can't always totally remember. It does take longer to become completely familiar with new subjects. My excuse is my youth, it was probably mis-spent lol. I still have many and varied interests and there is very little which doesn't seem to be interesting and worth following further. As you will have gathered, I do an awful lot of just chatting mixed in with my information

but that is just my way. I like friendly exchanges of information and views and I like to get to know the person with whom I am communicating. It makes for a pleasant experience and is good for keeping the blood pressure down which is good for the OP. This was partially why I was happy to introduce myself as I did and why I was so pleased when you reciprocated.  It always makes things pleasant and usually there is no bickering or nastiness. It's much easier and less stressful to act in a civilised way than as a boorish lout. See, I've already gone off on a tangent. I must be short of food or something.

It's nice to see that you are happy and enjoying this wide and varied group of posters. You seem to fit in well and I hope that your stay with us will be long and fruitful. I see myself being here for some years since bone-building is a long-term business.

Take good care of your Bones

Kindest Regards

Colin

Wow Colin ,

thank you for your feed-back .You have a fantastic sense of humor also and talent to write and keep people here not just informed but also entertained .I smiled a couple of times reading your answer .

As you are saying ,this place,this chatt room  is not just for bones  it is also a nice place to talk to each other ,in other words to socialize. It is really important for us to socialize .As you said it is very good for heart and for entire body-well-being.

I will be present as much as possible but in short time I will go back to work .Right now I am in a short vacation which I have  spent mostly reading from this forum and from your rich sources . My time on PC will be shorter but I will try to see all of your improvements .I mean I will follow some people.s posts to see news .Maybe as I  will read more  I will have questions and  I will bother you with them .

It is a good reminder to take care of my bones .Thank you .

Although in the past I knew I was  not supposed to bend ,now that I am on this forum it is even more vivid in my mind what I am supposed to do right .

Kind regards

Mariana

Thanks Colin, I think I'll stick with the dose for a while especially as you say the benefits for post menapausal women 😫apparently the vitamin has a half life of 48 hours so I shouldn't be accumulating too much and given our supplementary calcium

Oops hit the button to early haha! 

...given our supplementary calcium on top of our diet perhaps we need more?? 

Carrie....have just done a little sunshine dance for you🤗☀️☀️ And Marriana I gave the heels a miss....for now haha

Patty, It is very wise to gather information, review it and use it when the time dictates that is is going to be effective. Caution will usually ensure a long and happy life. (You can't be too careful)

Best Wishes

Colin

Hi Carrie,

we are  all research in progress😜 our differences may help us all when we get to our repeat DXA scans 😀

Gosh this k2 must be clearing my brain cells as yet again I've hit the send button too quickly 😂

.. I've got my appointment with my Dr next week so have to tell him I'm not taking the dreaded Alendronate....feel it's not going to be an easy discussion😫 but hope he agrees to support my natural route and persuade him to let me have a repeat DXA scan next year! 

Very true Colin🤗

Im at the stage now where I'm looking at my diet to see what supplements need reducing before adding any....don't want my body coping with all the capsules and additives! but at least we are covering ourselves in the meantime 😀 Currently taking calcium vit d ( all in one with minerals and added soy & omega with vit c) and k2 the rest is down to exercise and sleep. I did toy with the idea of swapping to calcium citrate due to increased absorbtion rates but that would require separating all supplements😫. I'm hoping that taking them at meal times will suffice. I'm sure time will tell !! 

Great to hear from everyone...Marianne have a great time back at work don't worry about answering us ..we will all still be here when you find time to pop back🤗 Night everyone sleep well and build those bones !

I know what you mean when you say your mother is more fit than you!  Mine is 80, and until recently, I felt the same.  She is slowing down a lot.. just this last year... I think she doesn't have enough going on in her life, and is terribly bored, thus, sitting around more...  and doesn't have the energy she used to have.  ANYWAY, all that to say I UNDERSTAND!!!  

The dr. said my bones were near perfect.....  but now I can't remember what the values were.  I need to look and get back to you on that.  Now I'm back in Osteopenia range... which is better than the Osteoporosis range I had been in, right?  

Really good info on the quantity of K2.  THANKS!

HA Colin,

Love it....  well, we enjoyed some of those steaks tonight.  Cooked on the charcoal grill.  YUM!!!!   (Yes, I am in the U.S.)  But, I have to admit, the best steaks we've ever had were in Argentina.  We lived there for a few years. Oh my.  The steaks here are no comparison to those!!!!  You can cut them with a butter knife.  Now THOSE?  YUM!!!  

I have a little piece leftover from tonight's meal, that no one touched, but that appears to be the most tender!! I will enjoy it for a snack tomorrow... unless my hubby gets to it first!  

Keep holding your wife's hand!!!  LOVE IT!

Jill

 

Oh Handbrake, I feel for you on the dr. visit!!!!  I'm putting this dr. off on taking Prolia, too.  I think next time I need to be bold enough to lay out my reasonings for not doing that at this time.  Surely she will go with me because all of these things that I'm doing are fairly recent, and so give it another year, and my bones may show some response!  

I'm thinking that anyway!!!  

Jill

 

I think it is important to be computer literate as we get older. I love my iPad. I can research, play games, connect to people in various ways and keep up with world news.

If I did not have the internet I would be very bored and cut off from the world.

We do not go out much except to the pool or the doctor or something that must be done that cannot be done online.

We don't eat out and only occasionally visit friends.

We do take a road trip to see our grandchildren in Canberra though.

At the moment my husband and I are making a 100 page photo book for our son turning 50 this year which is a mammoth task. Old slides and negatives have to be sorted and recorded.

To be computer literate saves the sanity of older people!

 

Hi Jill,

Right ,Osteopenia is much better that OP ,so if you had before osteopenia and you are back there it is good . I think it takes time to deteriorate back in the OP ,at least this is what I have read. I am curios what was your t-score before treatment . Very curious !!When you will find out let me know .Thank you .This year I organised my results  .And try to keep a little notebook with my OP files . When I had x-rays in the past  the radiologist always told me my bones looked  osteporotic .It was 2006 when I had my first DEXA .It was -2,8 border between osteopenia and OP . I tryed the awful AA for very short time as I noticed side effects .One of my best friends has OP . She was on AA -s for 12 years .It destroyed her esophagus. And her t-score never improved .This is why I stoped taking anyting but Ca ,vit D,MG and recently like for an year now I take vit K2 .

You had a fantastic time enjoying your steak .How was life in Argentina? I heard they have the best steaks in the world and they eat the highest amount of beef per capita in the world.

Sorry to hear about your mother. She lives alone ? You are saying she is slowing down a lot --does she take any vitamin supplements to make her stronger ? Old ages are not so beautiful.

Take care and please get back to me when you know how was your t-score before you started the treatment . I am still open for a treatment if it will be necessary .

How about strontium? What are your information? I know in USA the supplement chains are selling strontium . But we should see if anyone ever improved their t-score under strontium treatment .

Sorry I wrote too much this time .I do not want to rob your time with my bla bla

 

I hit the button by mistake before saying have a nice Sunday .

M.

Thanks Jill, I don't know about you but I keep going over my little repertoire in my head so by the time I get in there it will all come tumbling out just so I can fit it into our 7 min appointment ha ha! ...Crazy woman haha!😂

Are you really limited to a seven minute appointment? Can't you book a double appointment?

My GP would never cover it under a double!

Hi Patty,

Have you thought about doing my trick and printing it all out in one-liners with spaces between the lines.

At the bottom, i suggest you send yourself a reminder:

"It is my body, I do not want to be bullied, indeed I will not be bullied."

Then if he gets stroppy, remind him who pays his wages. They are there to listen and unless it is infeasible, they should do our bidding, particularly over something like this which is purely driven by the big drug companies and should never have happened. As a last resort, there is always the comment that the media might be interested in the way you are being treated, although that is a bit extreme.

A list is good and gives you the right memory joggers.

You are in the right - believe it!

I'm sure you can tell that I've had similar treatment before over some heart medication beginning and ending with S.

Best of luck

Colin

Hi Jill,

Your post reminded me of 1963 when I was Radio Officer on the "SS Hardwicke Grange", a refrigerated vessel taking general cargo from the UK and bringing chilled and frozen beef back to Europe and the UK. Down in Buenos Aires, Dock Sud, where we were loading the beef there were lots of shacks selling beef sandwiches and these were half a French roll split horizontally, with a sirloin steak between the pieces of bread. Cost around a quarter dollar and absolutely delicious. I was quite happy to miss dinner on board ship for one of those washed down with a bottle of local wine for the same price. I'll bet that there was plenty of vitamin K2-7 in that!

Colin

Hi Mariana

I understand that your vacation is almost over and that your time will be precious to you in the future. I have really enjoyed meeting with you on this thread. Our communications have been learning experiences both ways and I really hope that you will be able find a little time to tell us how you are progressing. Also, if you need information that we might have, don't hesitate to contact us. I'm sure that any one of us will only be too willing to help.

I wilsh you all the best for the future. Maybe you will discover the cure that we are all striving for. I shall continue delving, reading, deducing and learning and if I come up with anything further I shall leave you messages. I will message you an email address where I can be reached. I usually check these several times every day.

I wish you all the best for the future, keep in touch when you can.

Take very good care of your bones and think of your friends occasionally.

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Thing is Colin it's always good to keep them on side so it's more a case of persuading them to our thinking as we still need their support for investigations etc... I made myself a little list last time which really helped when he threw me by telling me my DXA scan results....I was initially there for my polymyalgia follow up so finding out that I had another condition was a bit of a curve ball! However I feel I've moved so far forward since my last visit so need to bring him up to speed haha! I'm sure he will be fine x

Yes Kathleen, amazing isn't it and an emergency appointment is 5 mins no wonder the Drs surgery over runs on time but I guess they have to see as many patients as they can,

May I ask you please ,where do you live ?Which country ? Where is an appointment  with a MD so  short ? Is this Dr a GP ?

Hi Patty,

I just wrote a reply and it disappeared before I could even copy it.

Sorry if I misread what was happening, I thought that there was some bullying going on and having been a victim from time to time, it sort of clouds my vision.

If you can get your way without having to resort to threats or skirmishes, good for you. I tend to use guile and enlist the aid of a locum who used to be my doctor years ago.

Good luck with your visit.

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Hi Colin ,

I became addicted already to this forum and especially to this nice group and chatroom .  and if I will have time I will check in   ASAP .I am hopping somebody some day will find a cure for this awful condition .Have a woderful night all of you .

Kind regards to you too Colin ,

Mariana

 

Hi Carrie,

I hope that you had a good day. We took advantage of the brilliant start to the day - sunshine and very little wind and clouds in the distance. So we set off down our usual route into the park and ran into an old friend taking her dog for a walk. It made a nice change to chat to someone who had a different set of problems. We walked through the Open-Air Theatre and along the promenade onto the sand and wandered along quite happily as we do. There were quite a few dog walkers around but it was very peaceful and we had a good walk around the base of the castle to the fish pier where the little cafe is. We had an early lunch, Pauline had a breakfast omelette and I had a couple of pieces of lemon sole , a jacket potato and a salad bowl, all thoroughly enjoyed and good for the OP. When we got home, four and a half miles along after calling at a supermarket, we treated ourselves to a gluten & dairy free ice-cream cone. Naughty but very nice. Moral restored.

Spent most of the afternoon answering a post from Mariana, I believe that her vacation is over and we shall not see or hear a lot of her although she says that if she gets the chance she will send us messages, Also managed to put my big foot in it again with Patty (I thought that she was being bullied but she wasn't). Anyway I apologised and  I think that all is OK.

Got some nice presents for father's day - a set of watch repair tools and a really beautiful card.

I'm going to find out about sprouting Chia seeds because it multiplies the goodness by ten times, so I'm going to find out how to do it and have a go. The sprouted seeds may be abominable but I won't know until I've tried. After I've tried this, I'm going hunting for multiple supplements to try and reduce the number of pills that I have to take. Suggestions are welcome.

Haven't any more news, chat again when I have some, bye for now.

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Hi Patty,

​Yes if possible book a double appointment.  I try and do a list like Colin, which does not always go down well, but at least summarises my points.  I try and back up with suggestions I want her to follow!  Seems to me half the time we have to tell them what we think is best for us as they don't really know!

Good luck!

​kind regards Carrie 

Hi Patty

True!

kind regards Carrie

Hi Patty

​Yay on sunshine dance!! lol  Not reached me yet as bucketing down, but here's hoping lol

Take care!

​kind regards Carrie

Hi Mariana,

You are so right, it is important to have support, and from ppl who understand   Look forward to seeing you as and when on here

Take care....esp of your bones!

​kind regards Carrie

Hi Colin,

​Good day with my brother and nephews, though somewhat tiring!  We ended up at Weston Super Mare on a rather drizzly Sunday lol loads going on, with an air show which was amazing to watch, the kids enjoyed the pier, and I got loads of walking done so much so that was quite worn out last night! lol 

​Your walks do sound lovely   I'm glad you had such a nice day   And lovely presents

​Yes I saw Mariana's post.....I do hope she will stay in touch with us   Saw Patty's post too...it does seem we all have problems with doctors and their time limits and impatience with us   Wish there was a magic wand I could wave for us all. lol

​I MUST try and source chia seeds.....still on my list!!!! lol Good luck with trying to sprout some of your own, let me know you get on.  I am preening at not having killed off my strawberry plant which has produced some lovely tasty freshly grown strawberries lol  Was so afraid that it had died over the winter!

​Re the supplements.....think I mentioned to you the company that did the multi vitality gold which included vit a, vitamin b complex ie B1, 2, 3, 5, 6 and 12.  Extra D3.  Vit c.  vit E.  K1, biotin, folic acid, boron, calcium, - as a top up to the higher dose we need - chloride, chronium, copper - albeit so quite a high enough recommended dose but a start - iodine, iron, magnesium - though I take a higher dose of magnesium anyway too - manganese, molybdenumn(no clue! lol), phosphorus, potassium, selenium and zinc - though take the higher dose zinc along with my K2.    Bar looking at tracking down a higher dose of copper, it seems to cover the basics.  I can message you if you need more info

​Hoping for a quieter day today to catch up on rest!!!!

​kindest regards Carrie

 

Thank you very much Carrie . Take care too ! I am adicted already to this forum and to this particular chatroom. Thanks all !

Mariana

Helps to be around like-minded ppl Mariana

kind regards Carrie

 

You are perfectly right .Can you tell me how much MG you take in plus? I saw your vitamin formula . .And I think I figured out the name of manufacturers . How long have you been taking a multivitamin ? I use to take something years ago but started again as I felt a little tired .Now( I think) I feel more energised . So I will stick to it . I take magnesium citrate 300 mg per day .But I still do not know if the ratio with calcium is ok ot not . I have to study this aspect too .

So many things to learn

Kind regards

Mariana

Hi Mariana,

​Do you mean how much magnesium?  I take 375mg with vitamin B complex with supper along with 1000mg timed slow release vitamin C and the strontium citrate.  Lunchtime, I take the K2 100mcg, with chelated zinc 22mg.  I also take the multivitality gold I mentioned above then too.  That has 75mg magnesium, 2 mg manganese, 10mg zinc, along with the b vitamins ...I don't think my copper which is included in that is quite high enough but haven't found a stronger yet, it is only 1mg of copper included in this tablet.  Brekker I take the vitamin C again - I started the slow release formula years ago when I was diagosed with M.E./Fibromyalgia, I was also told about the value of teatree oil which is amazing stuff!  Brekker I also take a B6, natural gelatin for aiding the joints, (taking jelly or disolving natural gelatin works just as well!), because I suffer with hay fever and ENT problems I also take an echinacea.  Shouldn't need to, but until the Dr takes note and I can get seen by someone in ENT, I have to do what I can to help myself! lol  Ialso take the homemade turmeric golden paste, the capsules work too, but you have to be careful of the make as it has to be natural.  

​If I misread what you asked, apologies, just let me know, I am hoping as I haven't used caps this post gets thru ok!!! lol

​You are so right, so much to learn.  I need to go thru the info I have again as there is so much to take in

​kind regards Carrie 

Hi Carrie

Thanks for getting in touch again. I really look forward to posts from all the friends that we have on this website. I think that you were probably the third of my contacts, Kathleen was the first and then Eileen. I haven't heard from her and will drop her a note soon just letting her know how we are progressing.

It sounds as though you had really enjoyed your day in spite of the weather. I don't mind being tired at the end of a day as long as it has been a good one, never mind the weather. Well done on the walking, all exercise that does a bit of weight bearing, is good for the bones. Regarding our walks, they really are fantastic, A good distance with slopes both up and down, sand and sea, castles, harbours, boats and parks,, Lighthouses and lifeboats. And that is just the Sunday walk and doesn't include the items that are there for the visiitors.  We are having an 'Armed Forces Day' in Scarborough this coming Saturday and Pauline and Wendy are trying to persuade me to go but I prefer to be on the periphery of these affairs and use my long-range camera lens. I just don't like crowds especially when all the tallest people obscure the view for us vertically challenged midgets! So the jury is still out on that one. I would expect there to be several thousand in the crowds that will be watching.

I believe that Mariana liked us sufficiently to remain in touch for a good while to come. She came up with questions that made me think and I learnt quite a lot from her as I do from all the people with which we communicate.We both had messages today and I've been helping with some bits on the side like the pain-killers that Pauline uses as well as curry recipes. I also messaged my email address just in case she loses her access to our threads.

Regarding the doctors, I do believe that the ways of the world have changed so much that the days when I could guarantee seeing the Dr of my choice for as long as was necessary are truly gone and the "efficient" LOL system that has replaced the old one, is falling on its face and we are the losers. (get down from soapbox)

Well done on the strawberries, Mine have only just flowered so will be a while yet.

I'll have to spend a little time with the supplements (time, what's that?) and I'll get back to you. Looking for a compact way of getting the right ones.

Re Chia, I have bought two bags of 620g chia seeds from h____d & b____t, buy one & get 2nd half price. Pricey but if they are as good as they are supposed to be, they will be worth it. Found a site that shows you how to sprout the seeds so that they are much more potent. Needs a little care but not difficult. I'll PM you the link when I've done here.

Today was gym day and I was late cos had to clean Pauline's hearing aids - blockage in the little tubes. She's seeing a nurse to get ears sorted on Wednesday. Anyway spent some time on the cross trainer/stepper and used the other lower body development aids. Hung from the high bars for 15 seconds (up 5 for this week) to try and stretch my back and improve my posture (ongoing project), I might increase my shrinking height a little if it works. Did the weight & steps thing followed by some jumping (very carefully), and actually worked up a sweat. Then home for lunch and start answering some emails and cancelling Paulines counselling appointment because she's totally deaf at the moment. I fixed her up some headphones from the television via my computer so that she can hear the programmes or else she would be cut off from everything.(the tele volume didn't go high enough for her to hear and anyway that would have befuddled my head even more). I'm going to find a little more about chia and also find my copy of the 20 nutrients so that I can make a formal assessment of my progress.

I'll chat again tomorrow, I'm always a little tired after gym.

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Thank you Carrie ,

Yes I wanted to know how much magnezium are you taking beside the multivitamin and your answer gave me even more informations .Thank you .

So you take the strontium citrate also .Ah I am so so curious about this strontium alternative . I mean I am curious if it will work . Where can you buy it ? Do you live in England ? 

Good night and sweet dreams

Mariana

Hi Carrie

Well, what a lazy day, Apart from a bit of ferrying, all that I've done is sort some more posts and read. I found the site which described all the good things about chia but I haven't found the 20 nutrients post - there are so many of them now. I think that I would be better going direct to the site where they are rather than searching for my copy of them. Then I will search out the multi-vitamins and see what transpires. Would like some more details of the multivitamin that you mentioned, that could save me several pills. Could you PM me with the details please. I need to use up what I have anyway so there is no rush. I looked at the 20 vitamins that are sold on The Site but the carriage charges double the cost and it's just not worth it when I can get them over here but just individually.

I saw the post from Mariana, she really seems interested in people and has come up some questions which I had not considered. I quite like that and it's nice when things are done in a very civilised manner.

I wrote a bit to go on another discussion that Kathleen has started (link at the bottom) but the mods have collared it, can't think why, I don't recall anything that was advertising or contentious, it was more about me (could be that, that is my favourite subject) Anyway that was five hours ago and still nothing back. It's time that the wonky software was upgraded. Maybe they think that I've written too much! I should have been out in the garden again but it's such a nuisance having to get changed out of my gardening gear  so that I'm fit to be seen inside a supermarket. Pauline is still deaf at the moment and is rather fearful of going out when it's busy because she can't hear the traffic or bkes and worries about being involved in an accident. She gets her ears syringed tomorrow so with a bit of luck things will return to normal. Time for my apple now, banana after evening meal and no kiwifruit tonight - it's the seventh night and have to buy a fresh bag tomorrow. I want to print out all the dope on them for the folder because I find myself forgetting bits and pieces.

Hope that all is well with you and that you have a good day.

Talk to you again later

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Hi all,

just to let you know I had a good visit with my dr today, took my list Colin to make sure I asked all my questions 😜 And managed to get everything in. He's happy to support my decision and prepared to repeat dxa scan next year so we can review situation. He tells me hormone replacement ( bio identical is out of fashion again haha)  and I've also agreed to referral to rheumatologist ( because of my polymyalgia) just to make sure that we have covered all possible treatment options so I feel quite happy with the current situation. Also my vit d levels are good.

another post in the forum mentioned their t score in relation to % bone loss which is interesting because at my dental appointment 1year ago my dentist told me I had around 30% bone loss in my teeth ( corresponds with my spinal t score of -3) however at my last appointment 1 month ago he measured an 18 % improvement in my teeth.....I do hope there is a relationship to the state of my bones😀 I have also noticed my nails are growing and stronger. Has anyone else noticed similar changes? Would be great if we did have some outside signs of improvement ( or  warning signs that people may have osteoporosis ! )

Hi Patty,

It does sound like your Dr is a bit of a star but if you had a coherent plan already mapped out for him and you obviously knew what you doing, he just did the right thing. I hope that you didn't bully him (lol).

It does sound as though you didn't need to, and are on the right track  with your plan in place, lots of supplements and some exercise, how can you fail. I just hope that it's the same for me. Well done and the best of luck. Have had some nail thickening but teeth are falling out!

Tale good care of your bones

Regards

Colin.

Lol re bullying Colin ...no he was really nice put his pen down when I told him I had brought a list but all in all a good visit. Oh no re teeth😫! 

handbrake,

I can RELATE.... or I lose the "nerve" to ask certain things....  

I'm behind!!!  MAN!!!  I still need to dig out that info.....  and while Im sitting in my chair, it isn't happening.  LOL.  I just made myself a note though, so pretty sure it will happen now.  I have your email flagged too.... so maybe tomorrow..... it's late again, so not tonight.  

Life in Argentina... we LOVED it.  We missed our home and family, but we had such a good experience there.  LOVED the culture and the people....  I felt like I fit better than in my own culture!  It was just simpler lifestyle.  

My dad is still living.  He just turned 85, so Mom doesn't live alone, but no, she doesn't take much in the way of vitamins.  She takes few medications, though, too.  She is on Fosamax, and I am warning her to get off.  Besides that, she has been on for more than 5 years.... NOT good.  Other than that, she won't hardly even take Tylenol for a headache.  She will say, "I have a headache, but i took a tylenol yesterday...."  She's funny.  

I haven't taken Strontium, but NEED to take time to read about it again.  

No worries about writing too much.  Sorry I am taking so long to respond!  Sometimes the days go by and I don't get time to check.

Hugs to you!

Jill

 

How fun to hear such neat memories of that country I love so much!!  Those little sandwiches are called "lomitos".. and yes, YUM!!  Did they have egg on them??!?!?!  We have tried to duplicate them here in the U.S., but just not the same.  

A particular supplement, Carrie??  message it to me, if you would please!!!  

Colin,

I do believe I would ENJOY walking if my views were sand and seas, castles, harbors, lighthouses and lifeboats.  Sounds "luscious."  

Yes why do we do that? He may of course just be passing me over to the big guns lol😂 

Hi Carrie, 

gosh that's a lot of supplements lol I sourced chia seed shots at the local supermarket ( look for aisle with healthy nuts and seeds are) they are really handy ,come in a box .look like the sugar sticks that you get in coffee shops.

Hi Jill,

Thank you so much for your RE . I enjoy reading longer posts .I liked your Argentina report .I always wanted to visit Argentina .Who knows maybe one day .. Amazing that your parents are still OK  and help each other .Do you have my email address?I am glad. Take your time for your answer . Any information is good to learn from other people's experiences .

Hugs to you too Jill .

Mariana

Hi Mariana,

​Yes I do lived in England, in the south west  Glad I answered your query ok!  I bought the strontium citrate online, amazon I think, can message you if you want   Jury out on whether it is doing anything at the moment lol 

​Hope the sun is shining where you are, raining here at mo lol  Have a good day

​kind regards Carrie 

Hi Patty,

It is quite a list - but they help all my various health complaints....I hope! lol

​I looked at asda yesterday in the seeds aisle ....must have missed them   thank you for the hints!  I think I was searching for 'seeds' as well as the name! lol  I will track them down at some point I'm sure

Hope you have a good day!

​kind regards Carrie

Try morrisons or sainsburys😜

Hi Patty

​So glad you had a good visit with your dr   Excellent that your Vit D levels good, and you have a referral to see a rheumatologist   We will have to compare notes after my visit to one next month! lol  Weird how things go in and out of fashion!!  But covering all bases has to be a good thing, and what I am trying to do too

Interesting re bone loss in teeth.  Oh it would be wonderful if what we are doing does indeed pay off and we are able to reduce our t scores and improve out bodies, naturally!

​Yes since being on the icalD3 my nails are most definately stronger....and longer   So that has to be a good sign -one hopes - of improved bones too

Fingers crossed!!

​Have a good day

​kind regards Carrie

Will do - thanks!

Hi Colin,

​Good to hear your nails are improving but so sorry re your teeth

​kindest regards Carrie

Hi Jill

​Just messaged you   Hope I didn't waffle too much!! lol

kind regards Carrie

Hi Jill,

Ooh Argentian lifestyle

​Wow your Dad is a good age, and good on your Mum   I have lost both my parents, and cared for my Dad after my Mum passed away 10 years ago until his death in 2013.  LOL re your Mum and headache pills!

​I messaged you just now, mentioning I take the strontium citrate, or rather added it to my list of stuff lol.....not sure if it is helping or not.

​With you on the days going past.....I wasn't on here yesterday...and missed loads, only now just trying to catch up! lol 

Hope today a good day!

​kind regards Carrie

 

Hi Colin,

​Apologies I didn't get on here yesterday, busy day with my brother helping me clear stuff in the garden.  He took 6 bags of garden rubbish to the tip for me lol  Tiring day but good job done - and yes, I did try to be careful and do it gently, letting him do the heavy stuff, or cutting thick stems or whatever! lol

I've just messaged you my vitamins, hope msg gets thru ok, any probs let me know

​Nothing wrong with lazy days lol  We all need them   BTW, have you heard from Eileen at all? I wondered how she was.

​You are so right with costs of supplements, etc, it is mindblowing what we end up spending on stuff to help ourselves   Makes me think, when I used to go to the dentist and get a filling or something, costs so much, and isn't something you can show off like a new handbag or pair of shoes!! lol

Yes, I've responded to a few posts from Mariana, she seems lovely   As does everyone I talk to on here

​Thank you for the various links you sent thru, appreciated.  I have so much to catch up with stuff, but hey, one thing at a time eh.   Only one pair of hands, and they don't work that well!!!! lol

​Sometimes seems strange with the mods, you think what you're typing ok, then they nobble you  

​Oh my gosh, did I miss a post about Pauline?  Still deaf?  Something recent?  I quite understand with her fear of going out, my Dad was completly deaf and didn't like going out on his own ....even with hearing aids.  If it is a syringe job then hopefully she will be back hearing again ok soon  

​I know what you mean about trying to remember lots of bits.  I try and copy and paste to word when I can, so I can reread and try and take it properly. 

​Must admit tired this pm, after the busyness of yesterday.  Hope rest of your day goes ok, and good luck to Pauline with her ears

​kindest regards Carrie

 

Hi Carrie, just finished lunch apart from my Avocado for my pud.

I am going to send the list of 20 and the associated text, to Mariana, I'm assuming that you would like copies. They are in word files so could do with you PMing your email address since they won't format for the message system on here. The alternative is that I message you a load of links. The basic 20 now has a PDF link on the page but the individual scripts don't (or I can't find them).

The message that I sent to Kathleen yesterday still hasn't been released by the mods, their software really is the pits.

I think Mariana is gathering as much information as she can before she goes back to Roumania, just in case she can't get it there. I still have the ingredients of Spanish Chicken to PM to her!

Been to the gym this morning and had a good hour and a half session and since there were only a few there, I could use the equipment as I wanted. Still doing much the same as before but I've begun very gradually increasing the weights and levels just an odd level for a couple of weeks and see how it goes. One of the ladies their has been listening to me rabbitting on about AA and she had quietly made up her own mind about what she was going to do and has come off it and is taking some vitamins and doing exercise very carefully. She's 83 and used to be a local tennis champion. She fell very heavily and broke her femur/hip joint, not completely but it was definitely at least a hairline which weakened things. Doctor immediately gave her AA and didn't even check her bone density, too old and almost certainly OP says he. What a load of codswallop. Anyway, pleased that she has taken her fate into her own hands.

Still have to get the hedges cut and the grass tidied up but it's surprising how much time I've lost just helping out in the kitchen, it makes me appreciate Pauline a little more. Pauline is currently at the surgery getting her ears sorted, so that will be one thing out of the way. I can't remember if I told you but she had a full-blown glaucoma incident last year and now has only a little sight in her left eye. To prevent a similar occurence in the other eye, they have made minute laser holes in the iris so that the liquid can escape. It causes the occasional drippy nose but at least she's safe from a further occurence. We really do seem to be dropping to pieces slowly although I actually feel fitter than I've felt in years.

Was reading up about natto early this morning but haven't seen any and with the description, I don't know if I can bring myself to try it. It has a reputation for making people puke on first trying it but it has massive amounts of K2-7 in it. Apparently, you can't overdose on K2-7 which is good because those who decide such things can't decide on the appropriate level as a daily maximum.

Got to go and pick up my two ladies now. Will chat again when I've something to tell

Take good care of yourself and power to your bones.

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Hi Colin,

Just messaged you

​I must try avocado again....tried it years ago and didn't like it lol.....but maybe it would grow on me, like oily fish.    Though I am still only havign sardines or pilchards in tomato sauce as can't face the ones in oil yet!! lol

Of course with sending on to Mariana - the more we share, the more we hopefully learn   ....Ah, didn't realise she lived in Romania....I hope she can still find a way to keep in touch with us all   And Spanish Chicken sounds yum if there is a recipe floating around....!!!! lol

​Well done with the gym and weights.  I am gradually increasing what I can lift in my makeshift 'roller' I told you about, so am pleased.  Still need to increase what I am lifting up as it is still the small wrist weights I bought a few years ago, and they dont' weigh an awful lot.  Need to increase my shoulder muscles ...so any tips gratefully received

​Fab re the 83 year old lady there.....it seems more and more that the Doctors just dole out the AA like sweets   So wrong

​Oh no re Pauline's glaucoma   That sounds painful what she had done   Does she take the eye drops for high eye pressure now?  I have been on them for about 7 years, as suffer with ocular hypertension; interestingly my neighbour takes the same eye drops and is also under the eye hospital!  Thankfully for the past few readings/years, my eyes have been at an accepted pressure level, meaning I just carry on with the drops.  Know what you mean about the dropping to pieces bit by bit.  So glad you feel fitter though

​Natto??  Not heard of it!  Though if it makes one throw up......!

​Hope your two ladies are ok.  Do take care Colin.  Spk soon.

​kindest regards Carrie

 

Hi Carrie,

The laser treatment is painless and takes just a few minutes. It would be cheaper for the NHS and generally an easier answer than drops. I think that they tend to stick to their tried and tested methods regardless. Pauline had some retina and optic nerve problems after the glaucoma as well as having an artificial lens fitted, so only partial vision. Both eyes were lasered.

I'm still being very careful, especially with the skipping and jumping. It does get my metabolism going though.

Talk again soon

Kindest regards

Colin.

 

Mariana,

No, I don't have your email address!  I would gladly email you if you want to send it along!

Guess what I have?  My reports... right here beside me.  Seems you asked what my scores were before Forteo, after, and then now......

2012 T-score before Forteo was -1.9.

2013 A year later while still doing Forteo, my T-score was -.9

2014 Now, this is weird... Did Forteo through that next year... T-score was -1.7

2016 Two years later, after no Forteo for 2 years, T-score is -2.1

In 1992 when I was diagnosed at age 30, my Z-score was -4.44.  Pretty scary.  

I like avocado with just salt and pepper on it.  YUM!  

I sure hope Pauline's procedure to her ears works!  And her struggles with the control of the glaucoma.  No fun.  Sounds like the two of you make the best of it though.  So inspiring!!!

Jill

 

Thanks Carrie,

Yes Definately re compare notes, I was disappointed when dr told me hormones now  out of fashion as all my troubles appeared when mine deserted me😫! However I am taking all in one supplement osteo.  care    plus . from a well known bookseller . The plus is soy etc.

Great news re your nails, Colin too 🤗

Have a a great day 🤗🤗

Hi Patty,

?Hormones do seem to have a lot to answer for don't they...right from when we are teenagers getting them, to getting older and losing them!

?I have heard mention of the benefits of soy before....must look into that again so thank you for jogging my memory

?Apart from my one tablet that contains a lot of stuff being a multivitality from a well known source seems to have slightly lower rda levels according to the nutrients list Colin sent me, I am hopefully covering all bases - fingers crossed! lol

Let's hope the sunshine returns soon

?kind regards Carrie

Hi Jill,

Overnight Pauline's ears have somewhat recovered from what was quite a traumatic experience and her hearing has returned and with her aids in place we can have a nearly normal conversation again. The glaucoma is unlikely to change at all havining been stabilised and moderated by the laser treatment. Just something else for her to put up with besides me! Thanks for your good wishes, I'll pass them on, she doesn't do computers or mobile phones etc

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Hi Colin,

Think I am just a devout coward!!! lol

?Glad to hear you are being careful with the jumping and skipping, little and often seems a good idea to me, just keep our bodies ticking over nicely without putting strain on them

?Take care!  kindest regards Carrie

Hi Mariana and Jill,

Happy to email you too Mariana if you want

?Gosh Jill, interesting re the t scores....so how long were you at -4 before starting the Forteo?  Did you suffer any side effects?  Apologies if I have missed a comment or post somewhere.  Do you recommend Forteo?

Thanks

?kind regards Carrie

Hi Jill  and Hi everyone,

Just a short message as I am very tired aftre a long working day with a travel and a meeting .

Thank you Jill ,this is fantastic that you found your t-scores.I will really comment tomorrow what I think about this .

Good and see you all tomorrow .

Mariana

I meant good night .One can see how tired I am but I couldn,t go to relax without checking on forum .

M

Hi Carrie ,I hope you are doing well.

Tomorrow I will be more active .I am just very tired .

Kind regards .

M

PS Carrie , I recall you wished me to find my way back into  the forum after  my trip . I do my best ,I follow the notification  panel and open one by one  in a  NEW TAB  trying to see all of them .

Goodnight tired lady, we will chat again tomorrow maybe.

Kindest Regards

Colin

Hi Mariana,

I'm very tired myself today....been 'one of those weeks' lol and off to Cornwall shortly, so trying to sort stuff prior.  Hopefully some sea air will help relax me a bit lol

I do hope you are less tired, do take care, and I'm very glad you are still 'on here'!

?kind regards Carrie

?Sleep well Mariana!

?kind regards Carrie

Hello Mariana,

I think that we all want you to find your way back into the forums when you have time. Anyone new joining us always brings a new perspective, new information and fresh questions. I think that all three applied to you. I t was also fun chatting with you and we'd love this to continue. As you have seen, there is a wide variation between the level of affliction and also the level of help or answers required. Sometimes there is a choice of solutions to problems and sometimes there is no answer, only a recommendation that has to be tried and tested. Sometimes because of multiple problems, answers which may seem obvious, do not apply because of infirmity. It's quite a jolly old mix and I'm proud to be able to belong and participate in a useful fashion. I know that you will get tired when you have problems and have to work as well as look after yourself, but if you need to just chat, well this is a chatroom and there will likely be one of us hanging around not far away.

Do take great care and look after your bones. Will look forward to chatting when you have the time.

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Hi Carrie,

Not sure that you will get this before you set off. Just to wish you a lovely time and come back feeling relaxed, refreshed and ready to take on the world again.

Hope that you stay with your current status where you are, like me, following the natural route to restored bones and good health.

I wish you well and only wish that it was me down in Cornwall. I think it's time that I telephoned my sister in Kent to see if she has any spare rooms again!

Take care Carrie, wish you all the best

Kindest Regards

Colin & Pauline

So great that her hearing is somuch better!  That's exciting for her (& for you!)  I'm sure she is relieved!!

Carrie,

When I was first diagnosed, I did injections of Calcitonin for 9 months.  Honestly, I am not sure now what I would have done without those!!  They boosted my bone density about 12-15%!!!!!!!!!  Then each year from there... sometimes gains sometimes losses....  took the NOT-beloved AA drugs....  some of those years.  I honestly WOULD recommend the Forteo.  New drugs are on their way out that are similar, and I'm hoping for that rather than to do something else......  

Have fun while you are away!

Jill

Patty,

Very strange about the hormones, and interesting.  They are making a HUGE "entrance" here... the Bioidentical ones anyway.  The other ones, not so much.  I just started on some in December mostly to help with DEPRESSION because I got off of anti-depressants (thank GOD!).  But, it has been horrendous trying to find levels to help me with my depression.  I am finally doing well.  Blood test results showed all my levels super low, so NO WONDER!!  And I WONDER if that was the cause of my Osteoporosis all along.  Progesterone, for example, I had NONE in my system.  WHO KNOWS HOW LONG it had been that way?!?!?!?!  

Hugs

Jill

Hello Jill

Thanks for your posts.

Pauline is much relieved that she can hear again but it was quite difficult for the nurse (a very experienced one) to get the wax off her ear drum so there was quite a lot of minor trauma to the external acoustic meatus (the tube between the outside and the timpanic membrane). This has caused inflammation and swelling and she will have to wait until this has subsided before she can put her hearing aids in again. So it is only a partial success at the moment but it does make it easier on me that she can hear, my voice was going, through having to shout all the time. She was also using a lot of lip reading and this really exercised my face. My clarinet playing should be greatly improved (lol).

Re your post to Carrie regarding Calcitonin, do you know anything about it apart from the fact that it works. I haven't looked it up yet but I'm interested in anything that will help my healing project along.

Since I started on my project to heal myself, it is remarkable that I have noticed changes to my body in that things that have been a bit odd for years (like ganglions and bent finger joints) are actually becoming normal, that is, the jooints are more straight and the ganglions are disappearing. My gut is much healthier as is most of my digestive system. So I must be doing something right. It's probably the K2-7 which I have probably been short of for many years.

Glad to hear that things are working for you, my hormone problems were fairly easy corrected but need to keep an eagle eye on silly things like prostate - the hormones tend to accelerate any problems in that area. Haven't felt as fit for many years.

Kindest Regards and Best Wishes

Colin

Thank you Colin ,

I am here but still tired .Yesterday I was busy too and came back home at 11 pm .

WEB MD might have some reviews of Myacalcin recte Calcitonin . It looks like this medicine really improved some poeple's t-scores. I do not know why thay do not give this treatment a- la- long but I will find out next week .Very busy today and tomorrow also .

I am glad that things are better for Pauline with her hearing .

Take care .

Best reagrds

Mariana

Hi ,Jill

Very interesting what are  you saying about Calcitonin recte Myacalcin .Why did the doctors stoped the treatment with Calcitonin ? If you improved so well what was the reason they  stoped prescribing it ? Thank you  !!!!!

Have a nice day !

Mariana

Hi Jill and Carrie,

re HRT I'm not sure my male Gp gets the whole hormone thing but there is loads of info on the Internet showing that it has a positive effect on bone density.I did ask about bio identical hormones.it seems that the whole scare of hrt and trying to get people off it makes them reluctant to start it! 

I did read that soy isoflavines ( genistein and diadzeirin) makes a difference at low doses to lumber bone loss in post menapausal woman but another study showed progesterone cream and soy isoflavines increased bone loss.

it does appear to be dose specific.

Glad your feeling better Jill ?? honestly these hormones cause mayhem can't they?

Hi Mariana,

That was a very long day that you had yesterday, no wonder that you are still tired. Friday is one of my tired days after a good session at the gym followed by a good walk along the seafront and gardens, I think that I spent most of the afternoon helping Pauline to prepare todays vegetables, and answering or poking my oar into many other posts. I find it quite relaxing though there is the occasional 'wake-up post' that gets me going a bit. I think that the extra hormones are helping, I feel more like I used to and since we took in my daughter's little cat, Pauline thinks that I laugh more and actually get more exercise at home. The cat and I have an understanding - she calls, and I come running! We have some interesting conversations and I sometimes wonder if she is telepathic.

Going to take Pauline down to see The Forces Day parade. I shall not be going, I really dislike large crowds. I think that there is a little claustrophobia there, not bad, but I avoid doing things which cause me even minor problems in that respect.

Time to go now, Take care and rest a little if you get the chance. Will chat again soon.

Kindest Regards

Colin.

Mariana & Colin,

The injections burned like crazy, and I was having reactions to that burn!  I would get the shakes before an injection... cotton mouth.... it was like an anxiety thing.  I did the Miacalcin through nasal spray for a year or so a few years later.  We didn't see near the results.  They don't even speak of those drugs here now.  That was in the 90's.  Why do they switch to drugs that cause such adverse reactions when there are some that are seemingly safer?!??!  Oh, if I could answer that question, I would be RICH!!!  LOL.  

Jill

I'm getting ready to do another test called MRT ... Mediator Release Test.  It is a test to show what foods my body is reacting to that causes inflammation.  All in order to reduce those reactions, so that my body can absorb what it needs to absorb.  It is suspected that my body hasn't absorbed necessary nutrients.  Then we will do an elimination diet to get rid of the inflammation, and then add the foods back, one at a time.  After that, there is another test I'm planning to do that will show what nutrients my body is actually lacking.  All very interesting.  I am in hopes of finally healing my gut through this process, AND helping the Osteoporosis by being able to absorb nutrients.  It all sounds like a good plan to me!  

Jill

 

Really interesting Jill and a great idea, will you message me if you have any more information. I'm not sure whether they run a test like that here but I will be really interested to hear how you get on

Hi Jill,

It sounds as though you are actually making positive progress at last. The elimination diet that I had tended to be a bit long winded because some of the foods took a while to evoke a reaction and I still am finding foods which cause me problems. I was lucky in that my reaction seems always to be water retention and because I weigh myself daily, it is quickly obvious when there is a reaction. I had a test that showed which of 113 different items caused a change to the immune system which seems to deal with reactions. This test worked for me and I was able to eliminate eggs,dairy (bovine), wheat, gluten and even oranges and almonds. As a result of this I lost 5 stone very quickly and am mostly stable just now although AA did cause a reaction because of lactose in the pills. The worst that happens now is that some things cause flatulence and minor water retention. I'm supposed to retry the excluded items every now and then because the intolerances sometimes disappear when your system is totally clear of them. I actually have only done this in an incidental way like when I go out for lunch, I may have a glass of beer and this has gluten in it. The next day I can usually guarantee a two pound weight increase which will disappear after a couple of days. So mostly, I no longer let it bother me. The most annoying part is that the doctor's surgery have a record of my intolerances but still insist on issuing prescriptions for items that contain reacting constituents. I have been known to be a little less than a gentleman over such incompetence. Usually it is all to do with which is the cheapest medication - Scrooges!

An aside on nutrients, I believe that either vitamin K2-7 or Kiwifruit, both of which I began using recently, have caused minor but important changes to my body. Ganglions on my hands have shrunk to nothing and the end joint of my right index finger which was permanently bent over somewhat, is now straighter than it was. So I must be doing something right. I actually feel fitter than I have done for years sin ce I went on the natural route to curing my osteoporosis. There was another item which I have just sorted out and that was a low testosterone count which was first discovered in 1996. I had my annual blood tests for the cardio-vascular clinic and it down towards the low end again so I upped the gel on two days each week and hey presto, magic. Just have to watch that there isn't any increase in agression or prostate problems.

I think that I've gone on about me for long enough, just hope that you are as fortunate as I seem to have been and wish you all the best for the future.

Kindest Regards

Colin.

It's not a real well known or used test.  In fact, I got the test from the nutritionist I am seeing.  I will take it to a lab for them to draw the blood, then I will take it to be sent off!  I have a feeling it will be "fun" (NOT) when I have to only eat certain foods for 6 weeks to clear my body of the sensitivities.  Will keep you posted!

Jill

Colin,

Hearing of your positive results from very possibly the K2-7 is amazing and encouraging!!!  It is in that bone supplement I got, but I want to buy another supplement so I can add more.  I has only like 85 mg... I want to get closer to 200 a day.  The nutritionist agreed, too.  

Jill

If you can stomach Natto (Japanese Soya Bean fermentation) you can get 1,103.4 micrograms per three and a half ounce portion. Unfortunately the smell is evil and the taste is most definitely acquired. The K2 book that I am reading quotes a minimum of 120 micrograms as a minimum but also state that there is no known dosage because not enough research has been done so far. My capsules are 75 micrograms and unless I feel that more is necessary, I'll stick with that for now. Apparently it has a several days half-life so you will always have a fairly good amount hanging around if you take it daily. I assume that you are aware of the two type k2-4 and k2-7. The k2-4 is not as effective and has a shorter half-life and requires a much larger dose.

You may of course already know all this but when I get typeing, it's like I'm on automatic and it just pours out of me. I really am relying on the K2 to put the bone back where it belongs and not in my arteries.

All the best

Colin

Oh Jill ,thank you for keeping us posted your your experiences .I will ask my Doc why they do not use it anymore . I am very curious .

Have a nice day all of you .

Mariana

I can imagine the diet being tough??! What kind of things does it include?? And are you ok taking your supplements whilst doing it?

The k2 I'm taking is 100mg caps twice a day I can message you the details if you are interested.

Can you PM the details to me please

Thank you, Colin!  And yes, I was aware to look for the K2-7, BUT, i appreciate you saying it because who knows.... I may not have known that!!!!  

PLEASE let me know what he says.  I'm curious too!!!

Yes, send me the info on the particular K2 you are taking!!!!

The diet will depend on what shows up in the blood test.  It will show what foods I am not reactionary against.  I will eat ONLY those foods for the first 6 weeks (no fun...), and then after that, I will add back in the ones that I was mildy reactionary to... one by one... I think every few days.  It should be a grueling process, but at the same time, they say you feel so much better within just a few days, that it is motivating to do it!  

My mother already struggles with our eating habits at our house.  She will REALLY worry when I am only eating "chicken and eggs"...  LOL.....  I grew up in a home with fried chicken, mashed potatoes, and gravy.  YUM.  And my mother LOVES to bake... so all that sugar....  which I hardly ever eat, is a no-no to me now.  And my husband is diabetic, so my poor mother has no fun cooking for us anymore.  I took away her fun.....  

Jill,

regarding your mother.It means she always ate a not so healthy diet and she is still healthy enough to cook . That means that it is not the diet that made us --this generation --so sick ,it means that the chemicals   that were added to ..let's say to everything . Chemicals in water ,in animals ,in vegetables and in air .Chemicals everywhere ! I will contact my doctor as soon as possible to see what she sais about Calcitonin and I will let you know .

Did you eat  lot/s of chicken soups ? They say we should eat soups in which we should  boil bones .I know people who ate lot,s of soups with bones and they still have OP

.Osteoporosis - your name is mystery ,mystery .

Take care all of you and have a nice week .

M.

Oh, so agree!

Diet is very individual and also chemicals in everything!

 

Yesssssss  Kathleen !!!

Will do Colin 🤗

Will send details Jill , re mam,yes it's amazing isn't it mine loves all the naughty stuff was telling me off yesterday for not having any treats to have with her cup of tea haha! Mind you i had just made her dinner and I did make a summer pudding just for her this was her after dinner cup of tea ! She said during the war food was rationed so there was very little fruit and veg to be had ...hence the apple or orange in our Christmas stockings ??

Like Marrianah says they ate loads of broth from boiling ham shanks and adding pearl barley etc. her dad was a fisherman so always lots of fish and shellfish to be had....perhaps no wonder they have strong bones.

Hello Colin, Mariana, Jill, Kathleen, Patty, Jean et al

?I am back, but shattered! lol  Lovely time and the sea looked beautiful, didn't get too close as it was chilly and wet, especially yesterday lol but at least I had a lovely change of scenery

?I need to catch up on bits now, so apologies if I say something out of turn, but with laundry, bills, health and everything else including tiredness, I will be a bit behind!! lol  Bit of an M.E./Fibro flare as expected

?I did take my vitamins with me to take, and even partook of a lovely crab pasta meal for supper Sat night, sitting in a pub right by the beach lol  Did quite a bit of walking, and exploring too! lol 

?Will try and get on again later, but if not will try and catch up this week with all the links.  I can't remember whether I said but I ordered some MSM with Glucosomine and hyaluronic acid and chondroitin which I will start today. 

?If anyone has found anything really useful, please could you be kind enough to pm me so I can catch up!!  Be really appreciated   Thank you!!!

Spk soon!!

?Kindest Regards Carrie

Hi Patty and Jill,

My K2 MK7 are 100mcg too

?kind regards Carrie

Hi Jill,

Would be interested if you could pm me the details of the MRT!   Thank you!!

?kind regards Carrie

Hi Carrie

Welcome back and I hope that you are revitalised and raring to go. Glad that you had a nice time, good food and the walks which are really good.

Obviously you will have things to catch up with and much sorting out before the holiday is in the background again but no-one is going to expect you to know everything that went on here although most of it has been bitty and well-spread. I have done my usual bits where I poke my nose in and try to help where I can. Have communicated with Mariana, Kathleen, Jill, Patty and Anhaga. Gathered some more information but nothing earth shattering, There have been a lot of posts and multiple subjects.

Read more of of the K2-7 book and I'm really impressed with the possibilities, particularly the cardiac benefits as well as the Osteoporotic goodies.

I contacted my sister last night and got an immediate invitation to visit her in Kent for a few days and I think that we shall take her up on that since it will serve several purposes - I shall see my dear sister again (We became very close once I passed 50 and the family started shrinking), Pauline will get a break from up here, we will get to visit areas that we really like and it will boost our batteries as well. Just have to decide when we go. Maybe I'll finish the hedges first which is what I'm about to do. I'll chat again later.

Really glad that the weather held for you. Just think how much good the walking will have done.

Take care and look after your bones

Kindest Regards and best wishes

Colin.

Hi Patty and Jill,

?Yea, think the male G.P.'s don't understand so well, I have seen a female in last year and she totally gets it is right to be on HRT for now, and they have no intention of taking me off it in the foreseeable future

?Confusing re the soya....think I will just add in the MSM supplement I have bought and 'stick' for now before adding in anything else!! lol  Though I might try eating soya again sometime.....did whilst I was researching HRT but to be honest not that keen on the texture!!! lol

Take care both of you   Very tired this end, but trying to catch up after my break away lol

?kind regards Carrie

Hi Colin,

?Thank you   Though not fit and raring to go as M.E./Fibro flare so will have to take things easy for a bit...the price one pays!  Still lovely to see the sea and enjoy good company - and some walking in sea air

Oh that will be lovely for you to see your sister, do have a lovely time

?Yes, working my way thru....will take time....lol

?K2-7 does seem like a good thing to be taking ....I think I saw that you felt it had improved parts of you.  I have just started taking the MSM with hya acid etc so hoping that will be of a beneficial addition to what I am already taking.  Didn't want to start it before I went away in case lol

Have a good pm and have a lovely break away with your sister

?kindest regards Carrie

Hi Jill,

Lovely time away thank you   Just playing 'catch-up' now!! lol

?I must research more about Calcitonin....not heard of that one....want to arm myself for my visit to the Rheumatologist next month   So thank you.  If it is capable of boosting bone density by 12-15% it is WELL worth looking into

?Hope things not too bad your end....have you ever looked at St John's Wort for depression?  I am on Amitryptilline, low dose, but prior to that did try St John's Wort

?Kind regards Carrie

Hi Colin,

Thank you   I didn't but really appreciate your kindness

?I know you have spoken to your sister in Kent so hope you have a lovely time over there   We all deserve a lovely time escaping from things for a bit don't we!

?I so agree and hope too that doing what I am doing will work.....a minefield to work our way through, let us hope there is a rainbow of better health waiting at the end of the rainbow for us all

?kindest regards Carrie

Hi Mariana

?Very tired here after my break....which sounds silly but being out of routine ...!  Flare with the M.E./Fibro too.  But overall the break away did me good   And it was lovely to see the sea

?I would be interested in anything you find out on Myacalcin recte Calcitonin if you could pm me I would be grateful   I will check out the web md too on the subject thank you

?Hope you are a little less tired your end ....take care

?kind regards Carrie

Patty ,let's start ,all of us, to eat every day soups made with bones and bones and again bones ,and pearl barley is a very healthy cereal ,we should eat that too and lot,s of fish too .

Don't think you need the soy Carrie whilst your on HRT looks like you are covered with that ?? Glad you enjoyed your break

 

Hi Carrie ,

Sorry to hear you have pr with ME and Fibro. But I can see you enjoyed your trip which is good .I need to get close to see ASAP .

I am away from my home too for a while but when I get back I will contact my docs ( my GP and also the endo-specialist ).

Take care and rest as much as possible .

Mariana .

PS Thank you, I am recovering  from those hectic days .

I think you have a point Mariana ?? We do eat a lot of fish and I do make soups but haven't added barley and bones for a while..yes let's do it !

AGREE!!!  No, I don't eat a lot of soups with bones.  I have only recently been reading of the benefits of bone broth.  I don't "Love" to cook, so i can see myself making it one time and that's it.     BUT, I did buy some Collagen that is supposed to be really good also for bones.  I put it in my smoothies that I make.  You can put it in other things, too.  

Jill

Will do!!! I"ll send you a link where you can read about it.  Got my blood work done and sent off today!  

Jill

Colin,

Sounds like a really nice trip.  I am ready for a getaway, myself, but have no idea when that might happen.  

Jill

I haven't tried St. John's Wort for long enough....  it was while I was on anti-depressants, and you aren't supposed to do that while on them, so i got scared.  LOL.  I am on a low dose of Amitriptyline myself!!!  I am actually tapering off of it.....  I've been on it a long time, and I just want off all of that stuff!!  

I don't know if Amitriptyline is in the same category as the other anti-depressants, but they are finding most anti-depressants are as bad for bones as steroids are.  I was surprised!  Depression is soooooo not fun to deal with.  The hormones have helped TREMENDOUSLY!  I so hope I get to stay on them for a long time.  Otherwise, i think I would have to go back on the anti-depressants.....  it's been a journey......  ick!

Jill

 

Yes I did wonder whether anyone had looked at taking collagen but had read somewhere that it isn't easily absorbed ( not another absorbtion issue haha) have you or anyone else looked into it....could be our next research project??. Don't mind cooking soups Jill as it's just a case of chopping everything up and putting in a pan ..one pot yey??..but think I might make some stock from bones instead of stock cubes. Just a bit worried about the salt content in ham shank Reducing calcium absorption ?????? 

You all might be on your own.............  I don't know that I can motivate myself to eat soup soup soup with bones bones bones (maybe in the winter!!!!!), and pearl barley......  Oh hum... how bout prunes??  And sardines (oh, that fits in the fish category!).  And GREENS!!!!  :-)  

Great... thanks for mentioning the absorption issue AGAIN!  hehe....  Maybe I am wasting my money, but at least I've only been doing it a short time, and maybe with these tests I am having we will figure out something certain (I can always HOPE!).......

Jill

Sorry Jill haha...hey you may end up looking 20 years younger! Don't forget to let us all know if it works ??

Hello everyone ,

,I think we have to approach this monster ( OP ) aggressively. I am asking myself what we are not doing properly . Yes, I agree with  fish with bones . But I think  the gelatin (also known as cooked collagen) we could better take it from cooked bones . I have a pressure cooker and I just put everything in it ,bones ,meat ,vegetables (I do not chopp them as the cooking time will make them anyway soft ) .I do not think the stock cubes are REAL . Are they ? So we make a big pot and freeze some ...sounds OK  ,will not keep me near the stove every day And I read that barley also can be cooked in bigger quantities and freeze some

. You know when I stoped making good soups ? When it was the craziness with the MAD  COW DISEASE.

We make a huge chicken soup with all that and more and just eat it for about four nights in a row lol. We are happy to do that. It is good for the budget too.

Supper dupper ! What is that : more???? Ready to learn and add more things to my soups.

 

We start with whole chicken or chicken pieces bone in, pearl barley and water. Cook for a couple of hours in slow cooker. Then add one potato, sweet potato and pumpkin. Keep cooking in slow cooker. Add mushrooms, green or red or yellow peppers, one red onion, leafy greens, cauliflower, zucchini or cabbage (depending what we have) yellow squash. Usually at least eight different vegetables. At the end cashews if you can eat those. Finally cream if not dairy free. Basically, use whatever you have like corn or any other vegetable you have at the time. It gets better each night. It is very simple but we love it. I never use carrots as I have been told in the past not with chicken and now I can't lol! You can add nuts and cream after serving for people who are not able to have either.

Hi Patty,

?Agreed, don't think it's imperative, but might try to include it in my diet now and then as supposed to be good stuff lol

?kind regards Carrie

Hi All,

?Mariana, I take a natural gelatin capsule every morning....something a friend told me about that our grannies used to eat a cube of jelly a day to keep things 'oiled' within   I have also just dissolved gelatin powder, chilled in fridge and eaten, but tbh it is easier sometimes to take a capsule lol

Certainly improved diet and I am trying to eat more fish....even force myself to eat sardines once a week now lol 

?I don't have a slow cooker or a pressure cooker, but have cooked soups etc just on the hob before now, albeit much smaller quantities.  I always try and use leftovers anyway, and reckon as the weather gets cooler I will defo try and make more homemade soups - delicious   And nutricious

Will be adding barley and lentils to my spaghetti bolognese for tea later lol 

?Been to the Dr this morning....sideline she was checking my immuen system, interestingly I am low in IgM but she had to admit she had no idea what that meant!!!!  Something I need to look into - though she did say she would contact the Immunologist to ask if they knew!!! lol  At least she admitted she didn't know, she didn't try to fudge it! lol

Take care all

?kind regards Carrie

Hi Jill,

:D lol......soups will be wintertime for me!  Salads summertime....though with this damn weather it feels like September now not June! lol 

?It does get monotonous with the bones/fish thing ....that is why I always keep some chocolate handy!!!! lol  heehee!  Girl has to have some pleasure! lol

?kind regards Carrie

Hi Patty

?Hm....you are right to mention salt levels in stockcubes   Didn't think of that!   Ho hum...onwards eh!!! lol

?kind regards Carrie

Hi Jill,

No, you can't take both....I came off the St John's Wort when I started on the Amitriptyilline.  I have been able to reduce that slightly, and am now on a much lower dose then when I first started, but haven't managed to come off them yet.  It isn't easy is it?  You have to be so careful when trying to reduce   Like you, I want off, but Life every now and then throws something at me which means I haven't done it yet!!!! lol 

?There are differing levels, the Amitrypitilline is one of the older anti-depressants, the newer ones just didn't suit me.  Plus the Amitryptilline helps pain and sleep too which is partly why I was prescribed them.  Yikes!  Didn't know they could be bad for bones   I hope they're not....Life can be hard enough as it is......yes my HRT has helped tremendously, and I have also restarted Evening Primrose Oil as that seems to help balance things too....interestingly I questioned the Dr this morning about whether the HRT I was taking had high enough doses of progresterone in which I think ?Colin? mentioned....and it actually does, so I am so glad I am doing something right! lol  They certainly said they have no intention of taking me off the HRT for a looooong time  

?Get you on the journey!!!! 

Hope today a better day your end

?kind regards Carrie

Hi Mariana,

? yup a nice stay away...don't like to use the word 'break'!!! lol  And yes, I'm a bit of a 'hodge-podge' of chronic illness lol

?Glad you are recovering from your hectic days - you take care

?kind regards Carrie

Hi Jill,

Got!  Thank you

?kind regards Carrie

Hi Carrie,

Nice to see that you have recovered and are back to the grindstone. Don't know about Pearl Barley, does it have gluten? might have to do a looksee on that one. However, I found the following bit of information:

IgM antibodies appear early in the course of an infection and usually reappear, to a lesser extent, after further exposure.

Demonstrating IgM antibodies in a patient's serum indicates recent infection.

Immunoglobulin M, or IgM for short, is a basic antibody that is produced by B cells. IgM is by far the physically largest antibody in the human circulatory system. It is the first antibody to appear in response to initial exposure to an antigen.

This may be the item that your Dr was checking and it ties up with the immunologist connection. I suppose that what it means is that you have been exposed to some sort of nasty at some point. That's all the information i have that I could understand.

Just had my daily apple and banana (Potassium) and going down the road to pick up Wendy and Pauline - phone just rand. Chat again later.

Kindest Regards

Colin

Hi Colin,

I'm just checking the back of my packet of pearl barley, and it does say:

'Not suitable for soya, wheat and gluten allergy sufferers'

so maybe one to avoid for you.

?Interestingly the green lentils allergy advice also warns against gluten which surprised me, unless it is prepared somewhere where there may be gluten.  Seems to me that quite often they do just cover themselves, just in case! lol

That is interesting re the IgM, I wonder why the Dr couldn't find that out! lol  Will make a note, thank you so much for that, appreciated   She had no idea waht it meant!!!!! lol

?I will mention to nurse tomorrow when I go for the blood recheck

?Just had my apple lol  Drive safe and hope Pauline and your daugher are ntb at the moment. Having rested more yesterday, today has been slightly easier to cope with stuff thankfully   Don't think I will set the world alight just yet though!! lol

Thank you again

?kindest regards Carrie

 

Oh Kathleen ,Thank you so so much. I am going to make this soup . Incedible receipe ! How big will be in the end ? Just to know how much water to use/Thank you again.

Carrie ,could you tell me please are you on prednison -or any cortizon treatment ? I am asking regarding your low IgM .

Lol ,

I saw some american old ladies eating every day JELL_o or what is the name of that little desert made from gelatin ,some fruit juice and sugar or sugar free thing .I donot have this jell -o here .I have to look for real gelatin also .

Hi Mariana,

?I'm not now, I was taking huge doses of prednisalone as a child due to being a chronic asthmatic.  I last took a course in 2000 for asthma.

?Can that have an affect on low IgM?

?Kind Regards Carrie

Hi Mariana,

?You can buy natural gelatin capsules through that company beginning with a dn ending in n!! lol  I take the brand beginning with s and ending in r!!! lol 

?But just eating a jelly a day may help lol

?kind regards Carrie

Hi Carrie, it's me again,

Glad to be of assistance with the mnemonic, there were several to choose from and I just picked the immune system one.

Wendy was at the Drs yesterday late afternnoon and came out not very happy. It seems that she has got some problem with vertical tube cells and they are not behaving themselves so any trip is in abeyance at the moment because Pauline doesn't want to leave her with no backup support.. We had an 'Emergency' earlier this afternoon, got a telephone call from a nearly hysterical Wendy who had a moth the size of an eagle in her kitchen and would I please go big game hunting for her cos she was terrified. She has a severe phobia about moths. Anyway, off I went to the rescue and tackled this monster. It must have been about 3cm across its resting wings and was clinging to her net curtains and was quite beautiful. So I got a piece of kitchen roll and gently surrounded it and then carried it outside and let it fly off. Job done and I'm a knight in shining armour in my daughter's eyes. I suppose I should be thankful that none of my phobias are serious because I haven't a clue who I could call on.

The fellows who put their foot through the ceiling turned up this morning and having after fixing the hole have agreed to sand and paint the whole bedroom ceiling. The whole thing caused an extreme upset in Pauline who thought that our little house was being wrecked by a bunch of cowboys. It was all my fault for agreeing with my neighbout to have the job done. The same thing happened to the other half of my semi and my neighbour also has a hole in his roof and apparently it's all his fault. It must be a wife thing. At least the guys are making things good but it's now raining lightly here so it's a good job that they managed to make it secure. I did manage to get another 25ft of hedge cut and cleared away before the rain began.

I think that today is not a very good day and the added stress doesn't do osteoporosis any good. I don't thing the barley is for me either since it would probably cause water retention. I tested the gluten thing earlier this week and had definite water retention the next day. It's going down now but I'm still gluten reactant. I also react to lentils although I don't remember ever eating any.

However, Pauline does make her own vegetable and chicken soup which is excellent and we had that last night. I think that she uses chicken, sausages (pre-baked), potato cubes, swede cubes, carrot disks, peas and sweetcorn and some chicken stock and sage as gravy makings, not sure which stock but it sure tastes nice.

Time for tea

Take care

Kindest Regards

Colin.

I see . PM .

 

Another very good receipe!!!!!!!! Thx.

Hi Mariana,

We've messaged

But if I have missed something let me know

?kind regards Carrie

Hi Colin,

?Well done you being a knight in shining armour again   Large moths are not nice and I don't blame your daughter....I'm a bit the same with spiders, except more often than not have to deal with them   I spent one evening just before bed having to try and flush a huge one down the toilet, and it took 5 goes and bleach before the darn thing disappeared!!!!  Think this was last year So I am dreading September time when they are more prevalent   I have bought spider repellant plugs that are supposed to help....here's hoping! lol

?Yes it doesn't sound good with the gluten and lentils/barley.....all a learning curve with what we can eat and what not huh.

?Oh dear re the roof and Pauline/your neighbour   As long as it is getting sorted that is the important thing.....

?Sad you have to postpone your trip....but hopefully when you do go the weather.....and your roof!....will be much better, so timing will be easier

?Just off to relax for the evening now.....I do hope you are able to recover from all your stresses.  As you say it doesn't do our bones any good.  It does appear that Life is throwing us all some curve balls presently, let us hope it all improves dramatically soon   Thanks again for info

?Take care.  Kindest regards Carrie

We make it nice and soupy so cover the chicken with water. It will be quite big but you can control that with how much of everything you put in. 

It is called jelly in Australia. Fruit juice plus gelatin so very easy to make!

Loved the big game hunting Colin?????? ! I know exactly how Wendy feels.I too had a terrible phobia of moths ....it isn't quite so bad now ..I can pick the little ones up but definitely still couldn't sleep with one in the room! ??????!!

Thank you .I see a moderator cut an answer of you . Sometimes the cutting goes automatically by a machine .I like my soup soupy too . Yhanks again .

Yes ,I know Kathleen , I do not know if I can find real gelatin in the stores .I will search for .Thank you .

Well, Wendy can cope with the spiders, she has a little gizmo that lets her catch them and release outside, but she couldn't use it with the moth on her curtains and the phobia got the better of her. She had put a plastic cup over it but it didn't want to play, so she set big daddy on it! (Not very big really)

Hi Carrie,

The exercise routine that I have devised and which is now my regular anti-osteoporosis routine is listed below.

15 mins on Stepper/Xtrainer as Xtrainer @ level 5 & 102 steps per min.

5 mins on Stepper/Xtrainer as Stepper @ level 11 & 120 spm

2 sets of 25 on Abductor @ level 40

2 sets of 25 on Adductor @ level 40

2 sets of 25 on Leg Extention @ level 40, seat @ 3

2 sets of 25 on Knee Extender @ level 40, seat @ 3

2 sets of 25 on Leg press @ level 80, seat @ 4

35 seconds hanging from high bars

100 steps holding 2 x 5Kg weights, with 10 arm curls every 10 steps

50 jumps onto and off the step with careful impacts

As the body becomes used to the exercises, times and levels can be gradrally increased using extreme care. It is easy to over-strain the muscles.

Hi Colin,

Very impressed!

​My upper body in particular is very weak, so I am trying to strengthen as best I can....are there any particular exercises you know of that would help strengthen arm/shoulders?  Gently?!!!  Considering the OA!!!

I have been doing gentle arm curls with small weights held close to the body, and trying to use the arms that bit more...oh and using a exercise bend to gently pull against.  lol

​kindest regards Carrie

That should do it Carrie. I have had two shoulder reconstructions so I know all the exercises. Push off the wall is another one. 

No bending or twisting though!

In the pool I use the dumb bells under the water and that is good too.

Every second day rather than every day as the muscles like that or three times a week.

Bands on the door knob and pull back facing the arms forwards and backwards. 

You could go online and see pictures for shoulder recovery and they are good as well.

You are already doing the weights so you are doing well anyway.

Hi Kathleen

? Thank you.  Yes, I do against the wall one too....the physio was quite helpful at giving extra exercises to try   She suggested 'pretending to row' too...but I must admit I haven't tried that one yet! lol

Oh lore, 2 shoulder reconstructions   Due to OP??

I try and do my exercises daily...if time allows!

?Not heard of the bands on the door knob....not sure whether the bands would slip off or not....must have a look and see if I can incorporate that one, so thank you

?Take care

?kindest regards Carrie

First shoulder reconstruction was in 2001 after I fell down a very long staircase. I went like on a slippery dip and must have put my left arm out to save myself and ripped all four tendons off the bone. My husband tried to catch me but I was flying.

The second one was for the other shoulder. This one needed doing partly from wear and tear and because I used to pull myself out of the pool which I do not do any more.

For the door knob one you double the bands making a hook to place over the door knobs. Look for pictures as there are different exercises for this.

The shoulder issues were nothing to do with osteoporosis.

 

Hi Kathleen,

?Ouch re the long staircase   That sounds so nasty

?Makes sense re the wear and tear...overcompensating with the opposite limb.  I did that after RSI years ago, was given the wrong advice, told to rest it, and lack of use was not the thing I should have been doing.  It should have been gentle movement alongside rest.  Our bodies can be so fragile can't they.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

?Will defo check out that exercise with the door knob, thank you

?kind regards Carrie

The left arm is great. The right not quite as good. With shoulder reconstructions it is easy to undo the repair as it is so fragile so it is important not to use. It takes 12 to 15 weeks for the tendons reattach so it is a very slow recovery. It took over a year to get back near full ROM. 

Some are not so lucky though. 

Good luck with strengthening your shoulder and upper back.

I need to strengthen my back especially lower area.

All the best Carrie.

Hi Kathleen,

?That sounds worrying and you must need to take extra care with everything.  Not easy.  I am still recovering use of my wrists, so empathise with length of recovery.  Slow progress and baby steps. 

?I guess we must be thankful for small mercies with things....as you say, some are not so lucky. 

?Thank you.  I have physio again next week   Don't know whether you find the same, but my joints are always worse first thing in the morning, and even though I am able to form a wrist at long last in the left, I can't first thing until some gentle movements and heat 'get things going' so to speak. 

Good luck with your strengthening with your lower back, do take care Kathleen.

?kind regards Carrie

I use a wheeled walker all the time and my husband is my carer. I cannot stand or sit for long so I cannot do much.

I still have good quality of life though as I have a good husband and love my iPad and enjoy watching shows and I am an avid reader.

We go to the pool and have grandchildren who will visit again soon.

Family is everything and so long as we have them all is good.

I think the best asset we have is our minds because we can use them to do so much and our memories are always a part of us.

I don't feel different in the mornings except it takes me a while to wake up and I usually sleep in.

It is winter here in Australia so it is nice indoors with heating on.

Sorry about your wrist. If I remember correctly it was broken? 

Hi Kathleen,

?Cannot be at all easy for you. I am glad that you have such a good husband, IPad's are such a boon aren't they, and I love to read myself when I have time

?You are so right, family, good friends, they are worth their weight in gold!  And yes memories are wonderful   Just wish I could remember sometimes what I went into a room for!!! lol  But it seems to be a hormone thing as so many of my friends, my age, are suffering the exact same way!

?We have just passed our midsummer eve/solstice, so unfortunately our nights will start getting darker.  I don't think we have had that much of a summer....yet!  Hopefully the sun will pop his head out again soon.  Wimbledon tennis is on and we quite often seem to get one wet week and one dry, so I am hoping that this is the wet week and next week will be beautiful lol

?Yes, I broke both my wrists last December just before Christmas   A horrible, horrible time   I don't know how I would have managed if it weren't for my family and friends.  It wasn't long after that I was told I had OP   I am seeing the Rheumatologist next month but am on HRT, and trying to improve my health the natural way as best I can.

Onwards huh!!

?Kind regards Carrie

Oh Carrie, that would have been really awful and debilitating... Both wrists broken. You would have had no hands which must have been impossible to do so many necessary personal tasks.

At least we live in a better time in history to have these health issues. Modern cons such as heating and cooling helps life immensely.

I have heaps of time. We are both retired.

All the best. Good luck next month at the specialist, 

Ladies

Some of you will be aware that I have commented  favourably about chia seeds. Well I recently visited a websie which has details about sprouting chia and there in the comments was an article from a lady who had taken chia and had a bad reaction. Apparently it was also concerned with progesterone and had upset her monthly cycle and caused blood clots. It isn't fitting that I go into more detail here but if anyone wants a link to the site, please PM me and I'll provide the details. (Can't do that here, Moderators would have a field day)

Regards, Aristotle.

 

Hi Kathleen,

?Trust me it was!!!!  I was helpless, both arms in plaster, not a nice time at all   Thank goodness for straws, they were invaluable, and wet wipes for more personal reasons.  Else I was pretty reliant on family and friends

Yes indeed a better time in history thank goodness. 

?I am still juggling Life, ie work/family/friends/etc this end so Life keeps me pretty busy, I do enjoy reading before bed tho   And thank you, I am hoping ...well, don't want to tempt Fate!!! lol  but will keep you all posted

You take care.

?Kind Regards Carrie

Hi Colin,

EEk!  Glad I didn't get hold of any in which case! lol Hope they haven't stirred up problems your end.

?Hope your day ntb.  Enjoy your evening and let us hope the sun pokes his head out!

?kindest regards

?Carrie

I must try and upload a photo sometime!!! lol :D

 

Mariana & Kathleen,

I envy your dedication!!!!!  Maybe I will add that in sometime.  I am trying to cook more with bones in general, but I know it isn't the same as bone broth where all the goods are definitely cooked out of those bones!!!  

Jill

Wow, that sounds really yummy Kathleen.  So do you consider it your whole meal essentially??

What season are you in now?  I'm in the U.S. and don't know where you are.  Is it hot or cold there???  It's HOT here... too hot for June!!!  I DO NOT LIKE HEAT.  Can I yell that louder??  Would it be heard???  Would it do any good???  LOL

Jill

 

I don't like it when a post gets moderated... and I don't even remember what I put.  So you all don't get the benefit of my words....      

Definitely have had two MUCH better days.  YES YES YES!!!!  

I actually am using the help of an organization to get off of these drugs safely and permanently!!!  If you are interested in knowing the name, message me....  they are awesome at support and help.... and are helping people in many countries.  

YES!

Jill

 

ME!!!!  That would be ME!!! LOL.....  That jello.....  grew up on it but you are much better off looking for real gelatin.  The sugar in it, and even the sugar free kinds, have sweeteners in them.....  avoid!!!

Jill

Oh I want to read this!!!!!  

Yes, we are not working, so it is plenty for a meal for us.