Thoughts on overall prognosis of RA

It is not true that methotrexate keeps the body from rejecting the biologics. Methotrexate is used to try to enhance the biologics. You can resist one or both. I failed both, with each actually causing more pain and lowering my immunities, causing underlying infections and dental bacteria to enter my bloodstream, causing tremendous joint and fibromyalga pain.

Cheria, I meant to say "CAN" help "enhance" the biologics and that's one of the ways it CAN help.  My doctor just told me this Tuesday and I wrote it down.  I'm sorry both failed you.  But Human Anit-Human Antibody is a real thing and MTX CAN help block it.  Google it if you don't believe me.

Yes It can help block the anti human antibody, but the success rate is only about 30%

Lol yes your information was incorrect about the methotrexate keeping the body from rejecting biologics and you meant to say what i did lol.

Hi Kim

Thanks so much for your response. Yes, I too have very elevated rheumatoid factor as well as extremely high CCP levels so we're quite certain it is RA. I know all the meds will react differently for each person and I'm trying to stay positive, but it gets hard sometimes.

I'm not on the Enbrel because the only way I can afford it is through the clinical trials where everything is paid for. I was supposed to get on a trial next mmonth, but they ended up closing it early.

I know there's probably something out there to work eventually, I'm just so tired of being tired. I wish you all the best!!

Hi Cheria

I know what you mean about the Methotrexate. I did not like it at all. It actually increased my pain. And my hair loss was massive. My Rheumy said it's what everyone is on, but I saw no benefit from it. I'm not against trying a biologic, but I hear a lot of people, like yourself, get nothing out of it. Or it's short-lived. I just wish there was a magic cure. I have no insurance so it makes it tough. Guess I just have to keep thinking positive and hope for something that actually helps.

Hi sue, it is not true what your rheumy said about everyone with RA being on the methotrexate drug.. There are over 200 kinds of arthritis and methotrexate helps approx 30 percent of those with certain kinds of RA my research has shown..it makes most people hurt more as it lowers their immune system even further which triggers underlying infections (such as dental and others) which spread into the bloodstream causing more pain (joint as well as fibromyalga pain). The way i have gotten control if much of my pain is through supplements. Magnesium ( glycinate) is responsible for over 300 muscle bone and protein reactions in the body, and if this is out of sync (needs a 1 to 1 ratio or 2 to 1 ) with calcium with D, this causes fibromyalga pain which can trigger other pain. I researched which things cause or contribute to inflammation rates in the body in RA conditions (gluten, dairy, sugars, grains, etc, nutrients out of balance with each other or lacking and not being properly absorbed, less than 10 to 12 hrs night sleep, stress etc) and have had no fibromyalga pain in 4 yrs. I take plaquinil and mobic (anti inflam) and at times a low 5 mg dose of prednisone to keep my RA in remission. I usually get a flair once yrly and that is brought on by getting off track with one of the above. Be very proactive and find a rheumy who will on occasion when needed help you when in a flair and works with you when the sulfa drugs, methotrexate or biologics are causing more pain or not helping. Be sure to take a prescribed anti inflammatory daily for the inflammation given off by the disease itself.

Interesting this Cheria!

I have read a lot about methotrexate - and once read that it increases intestinal permeability (as gliadin does).

Given recent stuff about the role of gut immune responses to specific bacteria in RA - I am conjuring an image of King Canute holding back the tide of stuff flooding in to our bodies - perhaps the reason why Biologics work at first but eventually are unable to address the sheer load and variation of immune responses.

Hi Barbara,

I didn't go off drugs completely. I just went back to my other RA drug that I was taking before the MTX, which was helping MORE than the MTX. The MTX brought on more pain for me. More fatigue. I am tired of being tired and I'd rather get back on the Leflunomide than stay on the MTX. My doc was on vacation this week so I changed without telling her, but I did call her staff and tell them to let her know.

Many do not respond to methotrexate, the immune supressing drug often tried ny RA doctors and have toxic reactions actually causing more unmanaged pain, and triggering other infections.(hugely including dental).all causing health to digress.. Advocate for yourself..was confined to bed, wheel chair and cane for 2 1/2 yrs, failing methotrexate, biologics, and sulfa drugs until i became proactuve in my health researching the many causes contributing to inflammation and poor absorption of nutrients in the body..magnesium glycinate is responsible for over 300 enzyme reactions in the bodt that involve protein, muscle, bone health and needs to be balanced with a 1 to 1 or 2 to 1 ratio with calcium and vitamin D.

I guess I am specking of my own experience. When I started MTX it was so hard. I was so tired from it, and it was really awful. Mow, many years later and after a milliion other drufs, and bad reations to biologics, I am used to it, it doesn't fatigue me anymore, and when i did go of it once, I flared like cdrazy-- and I thought it wasn't doing anything.

So it's just my experience. You need to do what's best for you.

I now have a cray toe, I'm adding fish oils, lots of Voltaren gel, and it may. . . get better. Very frustrating disease. You just don't know what's going to work.

Best of luck to all!!!

I wonder if you flared terribly when going off from this temporarily was because stored toxins from this medication were being released..kind of like withdrawl of a toxic substance..

Thanks cheria! I added tumeric with curcumin along with fish oil supplements (and of course the folic acid of 1mg that the doctor prescribed) to my regimine and I stopped eating wheat/gluten over a year ago. I have to say, the diet of being gluten free did nothing for the inflammation or fatigue; however, it did help me lose 25 lbs so I stick with it.  

It is frustrating dealing with the Rhuematologist as she says one thing, but then changes and defends MTX on other occasions. At first she told me that none of the DMARDS would help me because my numbers are so high that the RA is in full mode. But then when I complained about the MTX not working as well as the Leflunomide, she told me it was due to changing drugs, and then it was because I needed to wait 3 months...when I had already been on it just 2 weeks short of 3 months. I find it hard to believe that 2 more weeks would make a difference.

I know she won't be happy with me changing the med on my own, but I know my body better than anyone else and I know that the MTX was definitely not helping me. I'll check out Magnesium supplements. Thanks again.

Yes Barbara, if I've learned one thing on these forums it's that everyone seems to react to different drugs differently. Some have great luck with one drug, while others get no relief at all. It's going to be a long road of finding what works for me, but I refuse to settle just because my Rheumy thinks MTX is the RA drug because 'most people are on it'. I'm glad it finally ended up working for you!

Actually, the MTX only works so well, but it waswhen I was off it that I realsized it does SOMETHING. I also take sulfasalazie, 3,000 ,g a day and a little prednisone, but Orensia and MTX was the BEST! I just got too sick all the time. But my RA as so controlled I didn

t even need the eye drops for my dry eye. Too bad.

Good luck.

I found magnesisum does nothing but help me sleep a little better, and too much will give diareah.

Good luck!

Hi. You must be talking about magnesium oxide..i am referring strongly to magnesium glycinate.

Methotrexate did the same for me. I got the feeling that my Dr thought I was crazy. It really did make me worse. Within a couple weeks of going off it, my pain decreased immensely. I'm waiting now to find out if my insurance will approve Enbrel.

Wow Sue, is this truly a real RA specialist!! What is she trying to do to you!? Lol..this truly is no laughing matter though! It sounds like a language barier kund of thing, in which she is miscommunicating and leaving things out! So inferior of this doctor to infer MTX because "most people are on it for RA" which is also not true at all. The truth is that most are tried in thus as the first drug to see how they do on this.. As this cancer drug greatly compromises their immune systems, inducing so much pain, and other conditions including fibromyalga as well as tentative lupus, just as biologics can do, they are told to stay on it..or stay on it longer...while the pharmacy literature clearly says to stop this medication, if these painful or inflammatory induced conditions or new infections (including induced dental injections!!!!) present themselves!! What is going on do you think!? Anyhow, i am so glad to hear that you are listening to your body, and doing as I had to do to finally get the right management of this very often poorly managed painful disease!!!!! We need much more research for management of this disease, but for now, we must be proactive, very self invested, help each other!!!!!! The magnesium glycinate helps with multiple RA and fibromyalga conditions, but is only absorbed if taken with calcium and D3!!! This is the only way calcium is properly absorbed as well! Without this magnesium, the body actually depletes our calcium!!! D3 is needed in the mix as well for either of them to be absorbed. Research absorption ability of magnesium and calcium! The imbalances create conditions you would need to research to believe!!!!!!! Please let me know how you do..♥

My personal experience and resesrch shows that MTX as well as Biologics trigger not only all over fibromyalga pain (as magnesium is hugely depleted), but also induces a Lupus condition, induced by the medicine, but goes away when stopped! Magnesium glycinate should be talen with calcium and d3 if you have RA or RA symptoms regardless if you are on the further possible depleting RA medication trials.. I take plaquinil, mobic (anti inflammatory which is critical) and 5 mg of prednisone.. If i do happen to go into a flare, which is not to often now ( 4 yrs out of 7), a prednisone or medtro pack is prescribed starting at 20 mg, then 10mg, then 5mg over about 10 days. continuing at 5mg). Some doctors prescribe 20 mg straight for 10 days, than drop it right off!! Insane!! Should be gradual as this is messing hugely with the master adrenal gland and systemic hormones and this much without tapering is extremely hard on us physically and mentally!!!! Which then triggers fatigue and an emotional roller coaster like you wouldnt believe, and HUGE depletions of magnesium and the b comples stress vitamins in our body for functioning!!!!!!!