To Panoptix or not to Panoptix that is the question?
Posted , 11 users are following.
I am scheduled to have the Clareon Panoptix implanted next Tue.
I have been researching for a few months now and honestly it is very hard to decide on a lens since you want the first choice to be the right one.
My story starts first part of this year when I noticed that my vision is my left eye was to me improving. I had to switch to an older pair of readers and my as my new RX (2 months old) was just too much power. But soon I noticed this cloudiness when I walked at night and then some halos around lights. So I go the eye Dr and she says you have a cataract. She says it is fast moving and I should see their surgeon. So I do and what a complete disaster, that day I waited 2 hours past my appt, nothing worked well as in the equipment they had network issues half the machines needed to be rebooted what a mess took forever. Then I get to see the surgeon he is looking at the results of the testing, confirms I have a cataract, discussed the option but seems very unsure about the readings from the machines as they don’t match up with some of the manual readings for my astigmatism. So, he makes this comment when deciding what to do “well I guess I have to go with what she wrote here it should be right” What red light alert is this guy joking , no he is not. I decided no way am I using this place and said thanks see you later.
Then I start to think about it my reading vision has been slowing improving over the past 2 years. Then I read that this is a classic symptom of a cataract. So, IMO this place has missed the onset of my cataract for the past 2 years. Further I think hmm this visit for checkup was a different Dr and she picked up on the cataract right away. So yea other Dr I have been seeing has been missing it, so this place is a place to stay away from.
I find a new surgeon on the first visit unlike the other place he only wants to see me for a consult. I think maybe they are just making more visits to make more money, but he has a good rep as this time I did my research. Turns out he seems very knowledgeable does his evaluation confirms the cataract in the left eye and it should come out soon and that I have one starting in the right eye that in his opinion can be done when it gets worse or whenever I am ready and lets me know the options. Totally no pressure says he is here to answer my questions, but I need to make my own educated decision on what to do. He says eye surgery has risks no matter what even if everything goes well. This is your eyesight you need to think about it and make a decision you can live with. He says no rush think about it do some research we can talk on your next appt. So, I go back for the next appt we get all the testing done, it goes all well, everything works as it should, we get all the needed test, very professional, and makes me feel like they know what they are doing. See the doc he says to give him a min to look things over to see what lenses are optional for me based on all the testing. He then says based on the testing you can get any lens you want and goes over all the options. I ask lots of question he answers just like he should on all the lens and is spot on with what can happen with each one. I tell him I have had good vision all my life and only in the past 10 years needed readers. I really want the best vision possible all ranges and I prefer to not have to use glasses if possible. He says you can do the EDOF Vivity or the Panoptix and goes over each one. I says really don’t want to depend on readers for cell phone use or to read a label in a store but not sure if I like the trade off with the possible side effect of the Panoptix. He says I can answer all the questions you have but I cannot tell you what lens you should pick only you can make that decision. I tell him I am undecided I don’t know. He says listen we have all the types of lens in stock for your RX give me one to pencil in and you have up to the time I start the surgery to change our mind. I say ok give me the Panoptix he says ok just let me know if you change your mind or if I an answer any questions you think of as this is a decision you should be willing to live with for the rest of your life.
So I am scheduled for surgery next Tuesday.
Even after reading negative posts here, I am on the fence but still leaning towards the Panoptix especially since I have confirmed no matter what I pick it will be the new clarion a lens.
Here are some of my thoughts.
I currently have halos and starburst at night, and I can drive no issue, if I am not thinking about them, I forget they are there. But they are mainly in my left eye and right eye very little so brain is maybe tuning out.
I do work on small close-up tasks at times and I sweat a lot so glasses are a pain and sometimes can fall off when hands are full. So no glasses sounds really nice like it was 10 years ago.
Most of the workday I am on a computer where I do where readers but again if I get up to walk somewhere I must take them off to see distance, yup a pain.
If I have to pick just one concern it would be lack of contrast for night vision. I do notice the left eye has some lack of contrast with the cataract already and I manage. What I don’t want is to have total loss of contrast at night.
As for brain adaptions I think I will do well as right now I have effectively mono vision and really don’t need any glasses. Reason is left eye sees quite clear at 12 inches and right still sees ok at a distance so everything seems in focus for the most part, it is what I would call functional. But I can see both eyes especially the left getting worse as time goes by.
I have read many bad posts here and not so many positive ones. I found this site by searching for Panoptix reviews to see what was out there. I was looking for post by real people and not some sponsored study. I realize that people do have issues real issues but also that most people who have no issues don’t post anywhere.
Anyways thoughts opinions?
0 likes, 84 replies
007Bond
Edited
We're at 10 days postop.
I don't think much has changed over the past few days, but I've certainly learned a few things. I've been going back and forth with my monitor and cell phone set for black on white or white on black. Everything that I read says that black letters on a white background are easier on your eyes and they do seem to be more in focus generally. But I think I'm having a hard time adjusting to that because I've been using the dark theme on my phone and computer for as long as it's been available. There is definitely some neuroadaptation that needs to take place with this lens. Putting that on top of also adjusting to reversing the colors is a bit too much all at the same time for me. So I've decided to just stick with the dark theme that I've had for many years and go forward with just adapting to the lens as is for now. I did find a few settings on my computer and cell phone that do seem to make things easier. They may or may not be on all computers and cell phones, but they are reduced transparency and increased contrast. I think that reduced transparency is helpful because it takes away that faded background image that's behind everything and the increased contrast just seems to better define where things are. This actually seems to make it easier even for my right eyes natural lens, so I think these settings were possibly good to have all along.
For some reason today the flickering I see off to the far left is more than usual it was kind of going away but it seems like today it's much more not sure the reason. The eye patch that I was wearing somehow managed to fall off in the middle of the night so hopefully I didn't do anything stupid while sleeping.
I think in general things are possibly improving. I do notice that if I'm viewing something that is not illuminated in any way, I think those items are becoming clearer. Things like a book a piece of paper an object and I think this goes for near to far. I am still definitely struggling with anything that has any level of illumination like a computer monitor especially when it's closer. However, something like the TV that is several feet away seems to be just fine but has no text. Bright lights in the distance seem to be still an issue. Some people in the neighborhood have decorated for Diwali so I got to see Christmas type lights for the first time with the panoptix. there's definitely starburst Halos which equal out into spider webs with both eyes open I don't notice it but with just my left eye if I concentrate, I can see it clearly, if I don't think about it it’s there but kind of faded. It reminds me of an old video game I used to play called Tempest.
I think I would definitely recommend to anyone getting their lenses replaced that no matter what lens you pick you might want to schedule them a bit more than two weeks apart. This would be especially if you opt for something outside of the standard distance lens.
When I say I think things are possibly improving it's because there are times I feel things are more in focus than others. So I feel like a lot of this has to do with adapting to the lenses multiple rings and the three focal points. Considering there are 26 rings on this lens and about 50% of the light is focused on distance 25 on intermediate and 25 on close and your brain is use to having everything on a single focal point there's a lot to adapt to. I'm pretty sure how bad you see the Halos starburst spider webs has a tremendous amount to do with if you can or cannot managed to ignore it in your brain and focus only on the single image that's clear. I think these multiple images are there all the time they're just considerably less noticeable during the daytime. I strongly believe that the reason I'm still not seeing the computer monitor very clearly is because I'm still seeing multiple images of the text and I have not fully learned how to ignore the ones that are not fully in focus.
I forgot to add something that I think is significant. I'm not fully convinced it has anything to actually do with a contrast problem. But the lighting has a significant amount to do with clarity. I think this is partially noted in some areas when people say that reading is good with the panoptix but you may have trouble in a dimly lit restaurant reading the menu. I have taken several different printed items with a variety of size text and viewed them at equal distance measured with a tape measure in a variety of lighting conditions. I can say without a doubt that if the items are viewed while they are being lite with sunlight they are significantly clearer then if they are viewed in a room with only the light that is coming in from nearby windows. In my opinion the text looks more blurry and unclear as the lighting around dims. I think this is why the Halos starbursts and spider webs are much more prevalent in the evening. I'm pretty sure that the brighter the illumination the easier it is for your brain to see and focus on the most clear image and ignore what is coming in from the other rings and focal points.
Again, I'm just guessing here I have no scientific evidence to support any of this really, it's just me rambling on.
007Bond
Edited
Ok I went for the 2-week post op today.
The Dr says everything looks as perfect as you could hope for at 2 weeks out. He says the lens is seated and aligned perfectly. That everything is healing well and looking good but there is still some swelling, irritation, and dry eye. Dr says this is normal and will go away in time use OTC drops for comfort. They did the refraction test he says my near and distance for the left Panoptix is as close to plano as can be expected. That my astigmatism is also corrected as best as possible given the available options.
Remember right eye is still natural and on its own would need a near correction. He did some playing with the device they use to prescribe glasses you know the typical. He says in his opinion I am good as is he would not recommend any glasses at this point. He says your right eye still sees well enough to not need a distance Rx and the left is spot on and will give you the near vision.
I ask then why is nothing from near too far in good focus with the left eye if everything is spot on. He says you still have swelling, irritation, and some dry eye. that will take time to go away, and this distorts your vision. He says further it just takes time to adapt to the Panoptix at the min several weeks. He says it is unrealistic to expect that you will see perfect so soon after surgery. He says this is a big trauma to the eye and like any surgery it takes time to heal and feel normal again irregardless of the lens you pick.
He gives me the reading card and points to a line and asks can you read this? I say yes, I can see it ok. He covers my left eye and says how about now I say no total blur and then moves to cover my right eye and says now? I say it’s functionally visible he says you are good with no glasses just give it time.
He says come back in 4-6 months and let’s see where you are. He says over the next few month things will become very clear as the eye heals, and I become accustomed to the lens. He again says your implant is on the money you just need some time, and you should see very clear near and far.
Overall IMO over the past several days there has not been much changed. Sure, I can functionally see with both eyes open at any distance. Nothing is razor sharp or as I have noted like you would see with a brand-new set of glasses. I still see the odd thing to the left Dr says it will go away and I think that is becoming less over time. There are times of more clarity so maybe there is hope here. I still see the double image he says that is the astigmatism and will become less as the swelling/irritation goes down. He says you will always have some minor astigmatism it’s not possible to correct it 100% we can just get as close as we can without going over.
So I feel good that he says the power is as good as one could hope for and that everything looks good. Seems there is no overnight results for me, and I will just have to give this some time. Sounds reasonable with swelling, irritation, dryness that my vision would not be as good as it can be. Also seems reasonable that is going to take some time to heal and go away.
I have decided to just live my life going about my day and give this time to settle in and see where we land in some time. Dr says each week will be a little better and in time you will see very clearly. That is what I had originally hoped for, so I plan to give that a try.
One thing I find maybe odd is I asked when can I get back to the gym. He says as of now you have no restrictions live your life do what you want to do. Do not rub your eye and you should not do this anyways to any eye. Go swimming workout do your normal activities. I was a bit surprised as I see some say you must wait 4 to 6 weeks. I was doing HIIT 3 days a week, light cardo at least 3 days, and heavy weights at least 3 days a week. So to be clear I asked I can go back to HIIT and barbell with a few hundred lb? He says yes, no issue lift as much as you normally did previously. Since I have been a bum for the past 2 weeks, I think I will start back slow but I wonder others opinion of how hard to hit the gym at 2 weeks out.
RonAKA 007Bond
Posted
I think your surgeon is being a bit cavalier with the swimming and weight lifting concerns. Keep in mind that there are no stitches used to close the incision in your eye. It is just left to heal on its own. The risk is eye infection and the reason that eye drops are prescribed. Infection is not an uncommon complication of cataract surgery. I would avoid swimming in any water where there is a risk of bacteria contamination for a month post surgery.
.
The other not uncommon post surgery complication is elevated eye pressure which can lead to glaucoma. Some have to go on drops to control the eye pressure. This is the reason for limiting weight lifting which can elevate eye pressure. The common recommendation is to not lift more than 10 lbs for the first week, and after that avoid heavy lifting as is done in weight training for 6 weeks.
007Bond RonAKA
Posted
Thanks Ron.
They did check the pressure in both eyes and said it was good where previously the day after the surgery it was high in the left eye and they gave me drops for a few days. I don't think I want to be swimming or getting any water in my eye that's from a questionable source. Even in the shower I'm just avoiding direct contact and letting things just rinse down and away from the eye.
That was my concern too thinking that when you do heavy lifting you are kind of creating a pressure within the body overall and for sure I think in your eyes yes. I think I maybe want to error on the side of caution perhaps just using some 20 pound dumbbells with higher repetitions or even some 10 pound dumbbells with high repetition over lower reps and heavier weights for the next few weeks. But already two weeks of doing nothing is taking its toll so I definitely want to get back into my routine before being a couch potato becomes my habit.
Ron what are your thoughts on the lighter weights and the higher reps for the next few weeks at least that's some exercise in the right direction though much lower impact? Do you think the lower weight, but Higher Rep still causes a pressure issue? I guess the key here is what's the definition of heavy lifting? I think this is something that varies person to person so it's difficult when you read online avoid heavy lifting for me that's a few 100+ pounds but for someone else it could be 25 pounds by personal definition. I wonder if the length of the workout has any impact is it better to do a few 15 minute workouts with light weights over a 30 minute workout accomplishing the same thing. Does breaking it up into more intervals lessen the overall impact on the eye healing I wonder.
Curious of your thoughts.
RonAKA 007Bond
Edited
My thoughts for the first while is to use lighter weights and more repetitions. Probably the big risk would be in lifting weights equal to or more than your own body weight while holding your breath.
007Bond
Posted
16 days post op.
OK so yesterday midday I started to believe that I may be seeing slightly better. Not necessarily on the computer but with other things at a distance and closer up. I went out for a walk last night after dark and I believe that the things that I normally see on my walk were more in focus. Unfortunately, while walking we got a phone call that my son was involved in an auto accident, so I quickly drove to the scene literally around the corner. Luckily everybody was OK and walked away though the car is totaled. While driving I felt that things were looking better than they were on previous night drives. Yes, there's still the typical Panoptix visual disturbances I'm specifically talking about clarity/focus.
I felt a little bit encouraged and we wound up not getting to bed till after 3:00 AM and I had an early AM dentist appointment, so I didn't even get much real sleep. But when I got up, I do believe that things were clearer than they were yesterday. So, I've done some testing today and things around my house that were not clear are clearer today. Again, nothing is perfectly in focus nothing is all the way to what I'd hoped it to be. But I can say there is a noticeable improvement from yesterday afternoon to today. I've gone out on 2 drives today and I can say for sure that road signs that I was typically only seeing when I was literally nearly on top of them, I could see them at a distance that I feel is at the least acceptable. Are they crystal clear at a very long distance like you would expect from a good prescription glasses no. But again, I'm just reporting that thankfully I have seen improvement in my vision. Perhaps some of the swelling and inflammation has gone down allowing the eye to settle a bit.
During my drives today I really did feel that everything from my watch at 12 inches to the dashboard LCD screen to license plates in front of me extending to road signs in the distance has improved in the past 24 hours. But I would like to point out that all these things that I see the improvement in if I intently study one of them and really concentrate, I can see ghosting and clearly shadow images of the of whatever I am looking at. I think you really must forget about these things and focus on just ignoring them and seeing what you want to see. At least that's how I'm feeling today only time will tell if in the long term I am happy and have the vision that I hoped for.
If we are talking specifically about my cell phone and the computer or any illuminated device with a screen or similar, I still see the outer glow. I also see the double image that I believe is related to my astigmatism. but I'm trying very hard to think positively and imagine the vision I want to have and be open to my brain adjusting to the anomalies in vision that the Panoptix presents.
At least some positive news for the past 24 hrs.
007Bond
Posted
I did some more night driving and sure there's some visual disturbances with the Panoptix mainly the spider webs. And when I say spider webs it's really the Halos and the starburst combined. Thing that I noticed is if the lights are in the far distance the spider webs are considerably small around the lights and can easily go unnoticed. As the car approaches you, they will slowly grow in size as the car gets reasonably close maybe 100 plus feet the spider webs are quite large and may even take up your entire view. After this point they quickly go away and then you have your normal vision you would expect. But this is because I'm going out of my way to look for this. And by going out of my way I'm really looking directly at the oncoming cars headlights. What I discovered is that if I look straight really focusing on the road ahead of me where I'm driving, and I don't directly look at the oncoming cars the spider webs are almost not there. I think it's directly related to the angle you're viewing the light source from the more direct you look at it the worst the spider web will be. It's probably not a good idea at least I never did in the past make it a point to stare into oncoming vehicles headlights so as long as you don't do that it doesn't seem to really be a problem. Now there are things that are going to be directly in front of you like brake lights traffic lights. Those certainly do have a level of spider webs but they're definitely not as bad as bright headlights. Again, I'm really going out of my way to think about these things and look for them. If I just go about my business and don't fixate on them, they seem to be easy to tune out.
Currently as of today I think things are going relatively well I can easily see things from 12 inches to Infinity. I'm still using the drops and my vision is not 100% perfectly clear like a good set of glasses would give you. But I still think I have some time to go to heal and things do seem to be slowly improving. I still have yet to be caught in a massive traffic jam and see what things look like. But if I can get to a point where I'm completely happy with my vision after things heal well. The visual disturbances related to the Panoptix even if they don't eventually get tuned out 100% by my brain are a small price to pay for this range of vision without glasses. It’s worth noting that I am operating with the Panoptix in my left eye and my natural right eye that has a very mild almost unnoticeable cataract, is farsighted and could use mild distance Rx as well as +2.5 readers. So the Panoptix is carrying the brunt of my vision 100% close and slowly decreasing as distance increases. If my right eye was spot on things would probably be even better than they are toda, since total vision is best if both eye are seeing well.
I think I am saying no matter what lens you pick nothing is going to replace your natural lens and be prefect. Each one will have pros and cons you need to decide which ones you can live with.
007Bond
Edited
Day 24
Another week of drops left. Overall, in general not a big change since last time I posted. I still feel that my vision overall is probably 95% it's not fully crisp near or far. But I think there's some definite improvement on the computer I really get through the entire day on my computer with no glasses and everything looks just fine. I guess I'm adjusting to the afterglow, and I think that having one normal eye really helps filter out things as opposed to both eyes being panoptix.
However, I had a chance to be in quite a bit of traffic at nighttime and experience both taillights and headlights in large quantities. This experience was less than positive! With both eyes open it's quite tolerable and I can see everything just fine nothing really bothers me, I can drive along the roadways without issue. BIG however, I quickly discovered that this is only because my right eye is filtering out all the issues created by the panoptix. With just my left eye open I would say driving at night in massive traffic would be impossible! This is because the spider webs and the anomalies that are created with a large number of headlights or taillights especially if they are in the distance creates a visual blur of your entire view. It seems to be directly related to distance the further off the quantity of headlights are the much worse the situation. Once they get close to you those lights are much less bothersome or really the spider web becomes unnoticeable. But if you're facing oncoming traffic in a situation with many bright headlights or many brake lights or even taillights in front of you. Wow you just see this total blurred image of all the spider webs overlapping each other. But when I open my right eye, everything instantly clears, and I actually can see very well. At this point I'm convinced that my right eye though it technically needs a prescription if I were to see with it alone, clearly aids my brain in filtering out the correct image to focus on in my left eye.
Again, I want to note that on roads at night with a few cars even several, as long as it’s a single lane roadway in each direction there is no issues. Even a multilane highway with not a lot of cars no issue. But get on a 3+ multi lane highway with lots of traffic coming at you and in front of you at various distances you are done, seeing becomes impossible. It’s hard to describe but imagine seeing a few single spider webs you can easily see between the webs and make out the visual picture. But if you take a large quantity of webs and overlap them at various angles and distances there is no in-between the webs at all. In this case you just see this extremely washed out view it makes seeing any of those cars or even the roadway impossible.
Now for those folks with both eyes having the panoptix whether they ever adapt to these visual disturbances or not I cannot say. I can say that I am 99% sure that I will not be getting another panoptix lens in my right eye. There is no way I can take the chance of my nighttime driving looking anything like what it looks like with just my left eye in large amounts of traffic. I think what I will be doing is getting an extended depth of focus or possibly even just a distance lens in my right eye. Now I thought of maybe I experienced this in my left eye because my right eye is doing so much of the filtering that maybe if I had both eyes with the panoptix my brain would adapt to that, and I would see very well. But I think that's taking a big chance and risking a lot and it's probably not worth it. Especially when other options are available like extended depth of focus or pairing it with single vision lens.
I mean if I could get my vision a little bit crisper, I would be really happy with the range of vision from the panoptix. I mean being able to read the small print on the prescription bottle through distance without glasses is impressive. And generally, I would say during the daytime there are no real noticeable visual impediments when paired with a non-panoptix eye. Even at nighttime it seems that if you pair the panoptix with a non-panoptix the range of vision from your dashboard to Infinity is good. The other night I was at a dim lit restaurant no issues with the menu. But again only one eye with the panoptix so other eye I think really aids here.
Again still on the drops still some more time for total healing to see where things land. Sometimes when I blink things are blurry blink a few more times clears up. But I don’t think any amount of healing or stopping the drops is going to make what I have seen with the traffic at night go away.
Again, this is just my experience there is a truck driver on YouTube that has both eyes with the Panoptix. He says he can drive at night no issues and he drives all the time just at night. But he did get both installed on the same day! This could make the difference and sure is very different then me who is going to be months or even years between left and right. It is very possible that this helps his brain adapt. But do I want to take that chance hmm…no.
The jury is still out but seems we currently have more jurors leaning towards no panoptix for the right eye in the future.
007Bond
Edited
1 Month Post-Op
OK I'm at one month now. Yesterday was the last day for the drops.
I would say overall for my general day to day life with both eye open I'm seeing quite well without glasses. Just for a bit of history my left eye now has the Panoptix toric and my right eye is still my natural lens with a mild cataract. The right eye requires a very mild distance prescription, and I really can't see anything mid or close with my right eye without glasses. But with both eyes open I can operate very well without glasses.
I'll detail some of the specifics.
In good lighting looking at things that are natural my vision seems to be good at all ranges. With proper lighting I can see very small print at about 10-12 inches. In general, I am able to work on my computer without difficulty, I am able to watch TV no issues, and I am able to see at distance with no issues. However, there are some caveats to my general statements. In reference to the computer or really any LCD device depending on the color combination there may or may not be some afterglow or ghosting. This can be easily seen if I cover my right eye however with both of my eyes open it's not generally noticeable. If the subtitles were to be turned on my TV, I would notice this ghosting if in a darker room, it's highly dependent on the lighting. As an example, if I were to take the eyedrop bottle with very small print black print on white when viewed in the sun it's extremely clear even with just my left eye, walk out of the sun and into a shaded room and that print will become fuzzy. As for driving there are no issues during the day with both eyes open and there are minor issues at night with both eyes open. However, with just my left eye open the Halos and starbursts become spider webs. If there's only a few cars, it's not an issue, if there are many cars like on a packed highway or a traffic jam the spider webs overwhelm your vision to the point that everything is just a blur. However again with both eyes open this is minimized to a tolerable level. I would like to note at least for me this is not just restricted to headlights or taillights. Things that are reflective like speed limit signs or other signs you typically see on the side of roads that your headlights are illuminating will appear as multiple images when viewed with just my left eye. It's very hard to explain the only way I can describe it is if you've ever looked into an Infinity mirror you can see multiple images one behind another it's very similar to this. All of this seems to be directly related to being in a low light situation and the light source illuminating the multiple rings. I'm assuming that during the daytime this same phenomenon is happening it's just that because the lighting is good one of the rings has the best picture and your brain can more easily focus just on that one. Where at night in the dim or dark lighting the multiple images appear on your retina at a more equal level and the brain cannot distinguish which one is the clearest and focus on it. It's entirely possible that over the next year my brain will learn how to sort some of these images out.
At times more so now than initially I seem to be noticing something off to the left edge I really can't say if it's something dark or something light sometimes it seems like one or the other. It seems to be there more when there is a brighter light source approximately 80 degrees left of my center of vision. It doesn't seem to really do anything; I still see fine it's just a visual change or flicker that is noticeable. But I tried the hand trick holding it to the side like horse blinders it sometimes eliminates it others it does not. So really no idea what this is that I am experiencing.
I think I still have a few more days to let whatever residual issues that drops have caused clear up and some final healing. But as of today, as I said my vision is good, what's disappointing is it's really not razor sharp, especially at distance and in some dim/dark settings. I know what my vision looks like with the perfect a pair of glasses and that's not what I have. I guess it boils down to no lens is going to replace your eye to 20-year-old natural eye and everything is going to come with some kind of trade off. I generally don't drive at night that much, but I don't think at this point I would get another Panoptix put into my right eye which would make driving at night impossible. Again, I've read articles that say it can take up to one year for your brain to adapt to a multifocal lens. So it's possible that if I were to have another multifocal implanted in my right eye in time maybe it would be OK, I'm not sure I want to take that chance.
I still have very mixed feelings about the Panoptix. In good lighting I really like the glasses free range of vision, but with certain devices and lighting conditions I really dislike the side effects. I mean I don't think the distance vision is razor sharp and crisp like it would be with a standard distance lens, but again this is offering full range of vision without any glasses.
I think I'm a rather unique situation where I will have months or possibly a few years between my left eye and right eye. So, I have quite a bit of time to decide for my right eye. I don't know whether this time will properly allow my left eye to adapt and possibly some of these side effects go away or if it will hamper any adaptation. The article I was reading suggest that the side effects like spider webs get slightly better by the third month and then people report they get much worse between months three and six and then clear up between six months and a year to a tolerable level (of course this is with them having both eyes done). If I could get to a point where the spider webs were minimized to a point that you could still see clearly in the distance, I would probably get another Panopticx for my right eye. I had thought about getting a Vivity lens but seems they really have the same or very similar side effects. Of course, I always have the option to combine it with a distance lens which would minimize any possible side effects and give me overall good vision. Like what I have with my natural right eye having reasonable distance vision currently.
I can say I've read many of articles and posts that say people that had the Panoptix lens had a wow moment the next day. If you are looking at my detailed account from day one there certainly was no wow moment. In fact, there was lots of cloudiness blurriness for several days and it was more concerning than any wow. So, my overall experience doesn't match with many peoples post for the day after or several days after. Today I still experience moments of more and less clarity I'm reasonably sure my eye is still suffering from dry eye and I'm using the over the counter drops which do seem to help.
The only advice I can give anyone as of today is you may want to schedule more time between your right and left eyes. That is if you are going with any kind of multi focal or extended depth of focus lens. This would allow you some time to see how it works out for you before you decide that you are or are not happy with it.
I will post updates over time on my progress.
007Bond
Edited
36 days post op 7 days no eye drops.
Since stopping the drops I've seen some improvement in overall clarity. I still have the odd occurrence of whatever I'm seeing to the left edge and some occasional flickering of light. I think in the past week things both close and far have come into better focus they are sharper. I think I want to call the afterglow more of a soft focus. It's kind of like the feature that some cameras have where you can put a slight out of focus on an object for an effect. As I gain experience with the Panopticx I believe this is caused by the multiple rings putting multiple images on the retina. I'm starting to think that as neuroadaptation takes place my brain is focusing more on the image that is clear and tuning out the other unclear images. This is what I believe creates the afterglow or soft focus. I'm noticing overtime that this is becoming less of a soft focus bringing more overall clarity to my vision. It's worth noting that this is more prevalent in dim or dark lighting settings. But I am seeing improvement in the full range from brightly lit to dark.
Last night I had the pleasure of driving home in the pouring rain on a crowded multi lane highway with extremely poor visibility. I took this exact same route a few weeks back when it was not raining and just dark. A few weeks ago, the spider webs were so intense that they consumed my entire vision, and everything was completely blurry and eligible. Last night was very much improved, I don't know if it is related to stopping the drops, neuroadaptation or some combination of both. I do know that the spider webs were much smaller focused mainly around headlights and taillights but specifically small enough not to overlap with other neighboring cars. Because they were not overlapping with neighboring cars this allowed me to see everything in between the cars with clarity. I think it's also worth mentioning that depending on the type of headlights the car has seems to make a difference of how big or small the spider webs are. I've noticed that some cars have gotten to the point where they hardly have nothing at all. I have also mentioned before in the past that reflective signs we're showing multiple images with headlights reflecting on them. This has also become considerably less to the point where the signs are understandable with a little soft focus or afterglow and the multiple images are much less noticeable. I don't know how much more improvement I can expect I'm starting to think I will see additional improvement over the course of time. I'm sure that if we're talking specifically about distance if you had a strictly distance IOL you would probably definitely see better. But I think I'm to the point where considering the benefit of the full range a vision without glasses what I see at a distance even at night is becoming acceptable. If nighttime improves even more that would be icing on the cake
So the tide may be turning for the Panoptix and me. As of today, everything on my computer is very legible and clear to me. If I really stare at something and look for the afterglow or multiple images, I can find them. But if I'm just looking at an entire page and viewing it for what it is I don't notice them anymore. I think at this point everything during the daylight hours is fine the clarity is acceptable and seems to be slowly improving. At night there's some Halos and starburst which result into what people call a spider webs. However, over time they have become significantly less bothersome.
I have been going out of my way to go out at night and covering up my right eye and then uncovering it. Maybe I'm crazy but I feel like this is training the perception of my left eye to see what I expect, that is less spider webs. Because with both eyes open, they have always been significantly less. My fear was if I ever got another multifocal or extended depth of focus in the right eye I would have far too many spider webs at night. But I think this switching back and forth over the past week has trained my left eye to ignore the spider webs more. I probably am crazy but I'm determined to make the best of the Panopticx that I have in my left eye. Maybe it's just all in my head. After all the doctor told me that what your eye sees is actually just a big mess, it's really your brain that puts it together into the picture that you see. So if your doctor is able to get you 20/20 near and far and you have a multifocal lens, a lot depends on your Brains interpretation of what's on your retina. For sure these lenses are not for everyone. There's definitely a high degree of learning and adaptation. If you are a person that just wants things to be clear out of the gate with No risk or adaptation you're much better off with a distance IOL and glasses for close-up.
I think I'm about 50/50 on whether I would get another Panopticx in my right eye when needed. There is no doubt that there is a nice advantage to be able to see things clearly from about 12 inches to Infinity without glasses. There are some trade-offs just like there are with any replacement IOL. I guess in the end it boils down to a personal choice of what you can live with. Overall, I think my experience has been rocky but thankfully it's settling down into something I think I can live with. I've also been more proactive with putting in artificial tears at least four times a day I think this is very helpful for the dry eyes and can be contributing to some clearer focus.
007Bond
Edited
Little over 2 months post op.
Currently I still do have the dark Crescent to the left edge, it's not consistent it comes and goes. Since it's only been two months, I'm hoping that it clears up over the course of time (can happen with any IOL). For sure a large amount of visual improvement has happened since stopping all the drops. Over the past few weeks, I've not had the need to use the lubricating drops as much if at all.
I'm operating my daily life without glasses and in general everything is acceptable considering I'm working with only the left eye corrected at this point. I am starting to notice vision changes in my right eye so probably that cataract is slowly catching up.
I think one of the key factors is you must go into this knowing that nothing is ever going to replace your natural lens. No matter what IOL you pick there's going to be pros and cons. You just must make sure you pick one that has cons you can live with and pros that work with your daily life.
Specifically in reference to the afterglow on my computer which I'm on most all day long, I no longer notice it. It's there for sure if I really concentrate and look for it but I just don't really see it when I'm working. For things that I see less frequently like my nest thermostats and some of my Google Home displays I still see it some, but it has faded significantly over time. In reference to the starburst and spider webs they too have become significantly less over time. At this point there's only subtle differences between my Panoptix eye and my natural eye. Do I see spider webs and starbursts, yes, are they troubling at this point, no.
I think things have settled down to the point where I will be getting a Panoptix in my right eye probably in 2023 at the rate things are degrading for my right eye. My experience is only with the Panoptix IOL but it seems to be fitting well with my daily life now. I'm able to work on my computer all day, get in my car and see my dashboard and road signs clearly, watch TV, view my cell phone or smartwatch, read a book, make repairs to things I work on in my garage, read a menu, read labels in a store, anything I do I do without glasses. Considering I only have the Panopticx in my left eye I feel that if my right eye comes out equal to or better things will be even better.
Again, don't get me wrong the Panoptix lens is not perfect, it's not going to ever replace your natural lens, nothing will. IMO the learning curve for a lens like the Panoptix is steeper than others specifically referencing neuroadaptation. You will be freaked out at first, things are gonna look pretty crazy for a while. You must keep an open mind and just keep visualizing the positive outcome that you want. If you keep focusing on the differences between your natural lens or other lenses and the Panoptix lens, you'll likely continue to notice those problems in your daily life.
Please I in no way mean to diminish the problems that other people with lenses like this experience and continue to experience. I can only tell you my experience and how it's worked out for me, and what has worked out for me in reference to getting used to the differences of a lens like the Panoptix.
Since I see a lot posted about contrast problems, I want to specifically make some comments. I don't really see any problems in contrast when it comes to important daily life functions. Specifically, I'm talking about walking around at night, driving at night, anything where if you had a problem with contrast, you could trip and fall or get into an accident. At this point I've done testing with just my left eye in a large variety of conditions including dark rainy nights with little to no other light sources and I don't have any problems with contrast. Where you will notice problems related to contrast or more specifically the amount of light entering for the given distance (since this lens splits light) is reading in dimly lit areas. The way this presents itself is mostly with small print like a menu at reading distance. What you will notice is if you are viewing this in good light you will have no issue at all, but in dim light the letters will become blurry, and you will have trouble focusing on them. It’s not that you can't see everything on the menu, you can it's just in the low light conditions something like fine print is not going to be fully in focus. This does not seem to be a problem when viewing a large picture like the road in front of you or where you are walking.
So back in the beginning of my journey I originally thought that perhaps the Panoptix was the one of the biggest mistakes that I made in my life, I was ready for an IOL exchange. In hindsight a lot of my problems had to do with how the drops were affecting me, the fact that I was suffering from very dry eyes, and probably some unrealistic initial expectations. For my next surgery I will be using the lubricating drops from day one they were a big help after I started using them. I won’t be expecting any real results until after the drops have been stopped for a few weeks. So I've really done a complete 180 I'm now sold on the Panoptix. For me the Panoptix is providing me with clear vision from my smartwatch-cell phone distance to Infinity. Again, I keep trying to stress by no means are you going to achieve the same level of vision that a 20 year old has with your natural lens. You are going to have some pros and cons, there's going to be a learning curve, it's up to you to decide if and what works for you. At this point I'm happy with my decision I'm fully operational without glasses in all aspects of my life.
RonAKA 007Bond
Posted
It is good to hear that things have improved for you as your eye recovers. Have you had an eye test done by an optometrist to get an eyeglass prescription? That is probably the best way to determine where you ended up with the lens. For your second eye you do have an option to get a monofocal set for distance. It would likely improve your intermediate to distance vision and could possibly reduce the impact of the PanOptix side effects. But, it would not improve your reading vision so you would have to be happy with what you have at that distance.
007Bond RonAKA
Posted
No I have not had an eye test done the plan was to go in March but maybe now is ok. From what I have experienced so far, the side effects have minimized. Maybe I learned to ignore them, or brain adapted not sure I just go about my daily life not really noticing any side effects. Only real issue is the dark crescent at times.
RonAKA 007Bond
Posted
The dark crescent is most likely negative dysphotopsia, and it is always a risk we take. I think is is just as likely to happen with a monofocal as with the PanOptix.
soks 007Bond
Posted
the negative dysphotopsia may or may not go away on its own. it could be fixed with reverse optic capture if you wanted to.
thanks for sharing your experience. may i ask how old are you?
007Bond soks
Posted
I don’t know what to think with the negative dystopia it just comes and goes. It is not consistent only when on the right angle. Reverse optic capture seems evasive if it does not go away on its own I may be able to learn to ignore it. BTW 57.
One thing I notice is when in stores with high intensity lights example Lowes home store. You know these stores with very bright high white lighting. Noticed this is jewelry stores too where they have intense lights aimed at the displays. What I notice is with my left eye is something hard to explain. Best I can say is a flickering of scattered light off to the left same location that I see the dark crescent. It is like those lights are catching the edge of maybe the IOL and light is randomly entering my eye. Happens infrequently only when in stores like that no idea.
karbonbee 007Bond
Posted
Thanks for journaling your experiences. Very interesting and helpful. One note about the lubricating drops, my surgeon wanted me to start using them (preservative free ones) a month before my surgery to make sure the eye was in good shape for the pre-op and then surgery (mine isn't until early March, with Eyhance). Even without the surgery, I'm noticing a difference in the comfort of my eyes from using them. They also told me that on the pre-op visit, they're giving me the prescriptions for the post surgery drops -- they want me to fill them a week prior to the surgery to make sure that there are no drug interactions, and to start using them all the day before and day of the surgery. Also that I'm supposed to keep using the lubricating drops along with the prescribed ones.
007Bond karbonbee
Edited
Sounds like you are on a good track from the start you will be fine.
bernard96421 007Bond
Edited
Hi 007 Bond,
could you write at what distance from your eyes is the display and what size it is ?
I had Panoptix toric implanted 2 weeks ago and Panoptix 1 week ago.
While the distance and near vision seem to be ok, the mid range ie. mainly 15-35 inches seems to be "absent". Within that, text on the screen is blurry. I get tired very quickly.
Before the ops my display working distance was about 35 inches.
Such result is confusing to me, to say the least.
The doctor on post ops visits said the eyes looked
good.
007Bond bernard96421
Edited
Laptop is at arm’s length (25 ish in), laptop is 15in diag and extra monitor is 24in diag both are set to standard size fonts whatever default is. I did have a lot of issues at first with the laptop mostly blurry and what would call ghosting (many images like a glow around the letters).
I did find a few settings that helped me on my iphone and mac. If I remember correctly, they are under Accessibility, Display, enabled “increase contrast” and “reduce transparency” both helped reduce the issues. But now months later any computer screen looks good to me regardless of settings.
But if you read threw my posting you can see my distance was ok and my up close was good it was things in-between like you. Maybe it has to do with the getting use to the various focal areas of the Panoptix. Neuroadaptation is real and takes some time and a positive mind and outlook. Now I look at something close it’s clear and as I move to far it stays clear brain is switching unnoticed. I can make myself notice things like if I stare at my computer and just concentrate I can start to see the ghosting and the letters become several images on top of one another. I think this is the several lens in the Panoptix casting many images on the retina. But brain learned to sort it out and I just see the clear one for the given distance now.
I have said this many times nothing will replace your natural lens, so every IOL has tradeoffs. The Panoptix does have halos, spiderwebs, starburst, ghosting. It was crazy at first, I thought I made a big mistake. But I got used to it and now I don't notice it I just enjoy full range glasses free vision.
Oh and yea eye's did get tired during the day till about month 2 BTW.
karbonbee bernard96421
Posted
From what I've read, you should allow about a month before your final vision will appear. Your eyes are still healing now, especially if using the steroid drops, which will cause distortion on it's own. PanOptix though is known for having some gaps in it's field of vision due to the diffractive rings it uses. But give your eyes more time to heal before worrying about it.
bernard96421 007Bond
Edited
I am almost 3 months post operation of my both eyes. Finally the vision at laptop's lenght (60 cm) appeared. My eyes can work longer during the day. The most significant disadvantage to me seems to be loss of some contrast sensitivity especially in dim light or when observing small objects at short distance.
I also notice discomfort when watching photos at smartphone and other electronic devices. The smaller picture is the bigger discomfort. I see rather light and black areas than shades.
I also notice that colours seem to me not so vivid than it used to be and changed in a tone.
These are the things which bother me now the most.
Thanks for your replies.
007Bond bernard96421
Edited
I'm not sure what kind of laptop or smartphone you have I have Apple for both and there are a few settings that are quite helpful. If you go under the accessibility settings and then into the display you'll find 2 settings. One is increased contrast enable that the other is reduced transparency enable that. It seems that by default to make our displays look fancy they make the window on top transparent so that you can see a slight shadow of the window beneath. Though this may look cool it decreases the readability. Hopefully you have some settings like this on your devices.
For me I have not experienced any loss of contrast in fact I feel that the contrast that I have now is probably better than what I had with the cataracts. So I think a little bit of this depends on where you initially started from.
As for the colors I agree your natural lenses seem to be more yellow or warm in color temperature then the IOL’s. I kind of compare it to when you're buying replacement light bulbs you see the packages labeled warm color temperature or cool color temperature it has to do with the kelvins. And everyone reacts differently to these things for me I actually enjoy the more vivid colors over the yellow. I still frequently find myself watching my 4K TV and thinking wow isn't it amazing what those colors look like.
I'm thoroughly convinced that we can solve some of the things we don't like about our new IOL’s by simply refocusing our thinking. There's a human tendency to focus on we don't like or what we perceive as bad and that becomes our primary focus and what we can't let go of. I highly suggest thinking about maybe even making a list of all of the positive things about your new vision and try to change your focus to that. For example, when I first got the Panoptix the starburst and Halos forming crazy spider webs especially while driving at night I thought probably I can never deal with this. But then I realized that everything else was crystal clear, my dashboard was clear the road in front of me was clear road signs were clear everything I needed to drive was clear. So I started to focus on these items which are important to night driving and I found myself totally forgetting about the spider webs and just driving with clarity. So unless you're intending to exchange your IOL’s it's best to refocus your efforts on the good and learning to live with them.