Trying to decide on HOLEP, not 100% sure I need an operation

Posted , 15 users are following.

Hello everyone, I have been diagnosed with BPH about 3 months ago and still wearing a catherter since that time waiting for an HOLEP operation. I have tried CIC and failed, actually passed out in the nurse washroom fell on the concrete floor bangging my head and noze pretty bad. 

I'm not even sure I need an operation, it all started 3 months ago when I felt ill, went to the ER and had my creatine level at 230, at first they didn't know why, then they did a bladder scan and had about 800ml of urine after void, I never had problem urinating, the flow was normal but I was going often and couldn't hold it in longer. After also an echo of the prostate, they told me it was very large and needed an operation. They prescribed me Flowmax (tamsulosin) but it did not do much. 

I don't understand why they did not prescribe me the combo med, Flowmax is considered a a1 Alpha-blocker (helps relax the muscle around the urethra) and another popular drug a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor like Avadart (a dutasteride) that shrinks the prostate, there is also another drug called bethanechol chloride for detrusor muscle contraction for urinary retention, not sure if some of you men are aware of these drugs or tried it as a combo. It seems to me that urologist just wants to operate, they signed me up and make me wait but in the mean time we did not try these things. 

In any case, this coming Monday, I'm going again for another prostate echo and tuesday I have another appointment with a second urologist for green light surgery.

Another thing I wanted to ask your men of BPH suffering, have you tried CTM ( chinese traditional medicine for BPH) according to them, they say that Urologist in our countries dont' understand the prostate and just want to destroy it, apparently they say that the prostate is calcinated and need to remove the heat and restore normal blood flow to shrink the prostate naturally, even ncbi gov sites did some research, herbs such as: Rou Gui (Cortex Cinnamomi) Huang Qi (Radix Astragali) and Chuan Shan Jia (Manis pentadactyla L.) (41.9%), Shu Di Huang (Radix Rehmanniae Perparata) (38.7%), Shan Zhu Yu (Fructus Corni) and Fu Ling (Poria) (32.3%), E Shu (Rhizoma Curcumae), Huang Bo (Cortex Phellodendri), Ze Xie (Rhizoma Alismatis) and Wang Bu Liu Xing (Semen Vaccariae) . Wondering if anyone ever tried these

I appreciate feedback from you all including my friends Ken and Jim

John 

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  • Posted

    That is a problem with urological practices. They all offer TURP, but most likely have fewer minimally invasive procedures to choose from, so they tell you the one they offer (Green Light,Holep,etc.) is the best. Maybe they honestly that, but maybe they don't. The reason I favor the major academic hospitals is they are more likely to offer multiple options, and due to their higher patient volume and experience, may actually be able to recommend the procedure that is best for you.

    Also most of the minimally invasive procedures require general or spinal anesthesia. If you are taking antiplatelet medication spinal is not an option. That is one reason I decided against TURP-I have a phobia about general anesthesia.

    • Posted

      Hi David thanks for the message, yes I guess we are at the mercy of the urologist, for my case I saw 3 different urologist one for TURP, one for Green Light and the latest one for HOLEP they scheduled me for a tentative date of July 26th so still time to think about it in the meantime I have to wear my catheter for the last 3 months, it's either that or CIC which I feel creapy entertaining that thought, I have a mental blog and did pass out a few weeks ago when I tried it. 

      I know for HOLEP I have the choice of general or spinal anesthesia, not sure yet, I also have another appointment with the green light urologist tomorrow that scheduled me for a cystoscopy which I find useless since the first uro did it, so I might go the med road with him and maybe have an expert at CIC. 

      Thanks

      John

    • Posted

      Why would any men what to do that to another man. Your distrorying his body and most of the times you have to have another. Watch the video of a trup and a holep procedure the cutting and the bleeding is is horror story. This helps most of the time and you have more problems after. The newer procedure will do the same and there less down time Ken
    • Posted

      I haven't watched a TURP or HOLEP video,but the thought of peri-operative bleeding is a major turn off, plus the fear of permanent erectile dysfunction, and possible chronic pain while voiding. Even if the tissue removed by the Rezdum were to return, I could live with self-cathing. What I'mnot certain about is whether or not to continue with FloMax/Finisteride,or just one of the two. The urolgist recommended both for the time being,but I'm worried Flo-Max may lead an OAB. I just got up at 4:30AM and voided 750ml.,with a 400 ml.residual,however I drank some caffeine earlier in the evening. Thats the highest overall volume in the 21 days since the Rezum, so I'll have to fine tune my drinking habits. Not much can be done about the large bladder. I slept for 8 hours straight, which is unusual, and probably the reason for the high reading.
    • Posted

      Have you or anyone for that matter heard of drug "Alfuzosin"?

      One Man on YouTube was trying Rapaflo but the side affects were to bad so his UO put him on Alfuzosin. There are still side effects but he had better luck with Alfuzosin. Go to YouTube and do a search for

      "My experience on RAPAFLO medication". Watch the video and see what you think.

      Dubby

    • Posted

      Yes the videos are bad they start cutting away at the inside of the prostate and distroy the bladder neck. That is where all the problem start When I watched it it got me so upset. To do that to another man. And say that all will be fine With the procedure you had it takes more time. Now just relax and things will get better. Ken
  • Posted

    A holep report, in case of use, though not same circ's as yours  : age 49, volume 22cc so not large.  Many issues pre-op, but not to the point of retention.  Op wasn't too bad, only in for one night.  Removal of cath was painful, couldn't pee for 2 hours after - scarey - then I could. 

    End of week 5 post-HOLEP, and it's gone like this : week 1, 2 : no bleeding (after leaving hospital), no clots.  Urgency, frequency issues ameliorated slowly but surely (not completely, mind).  Worked from home – soft seating worked best.  Dysuria persisted, seemed less if kept drinking water at night; fading out end week 2.   Flow rate end week 2 very good. 

    Week 3 : back to office … various hard chairs to sit on, unlike at home : sore down there, sometimes felt like sitting on a lump.  Light bleeding all week, a few small clots, flow rate seemed down a little.  Maintained 24/7 drinking (of H2O) to clear out the clots, and avoid infection. 

    Start of week 4 briefly saw some MUCH heavier bleeding and two large clots (~20x10x3mm), many medium clots, and increased (but not bad) discomfort when sitting.  I read this is within the range of what’s normal, so didn’t bother the uro'; instead I took 4 days’ annual leave, took some iron pills, and tried to not do much, to give it time to heal, whilst still drinking a lot (as throughout).  Result : by late week 4, all was good; visible bleeding had ceased. 

    Week 5: very pleased; all good.  Still no scabs - maybe the odd tiny bit of tissue.    Best-yet flow rate : might well peak at 20 ml/s.  Still mild discomfort “down there” when sitting on other than well-padded seats, and very mild discomfort on peeing.  Activities : jogged slowly (0.6 miles) which felt fine; given the bleeding last week, prudently avoiding cycling (obviously), most lifting, petrol-lawn-mowing, and sex.  No problem avoiding these things until it feels like all has settled down – my aim/hope is to be 100% back to normal by start of August, i.e. week 8, ready for annual vacation.  Experience of erections since the op indicates no difficulties will arise there.  Frequency and urgency issues have faded away – last night I slept for 6 hours before needing a pee (best for ~8 years).  With just a little further improvement, I hope I’ll sleep right through – have just stopped drinking water overnight, given that there are no clots to clear, and infection risk is presumably low now (still drinking copiously during the day; was doing so at night). Pleased with the op.  Urologists don't really say much about recovery; mine just said something about 2 weeks and that was that - but really, it's just a few weeks of bother.  I still need to work up to voiding more than 220 ml a go - I need to train my bladder to not feel full too soon.  Am trying !

    • Posted

      Hi Paul

      Thanks for your updates on the HOLEP operation, I'm glad things are workout for you, as for me well I'm waiting to see if they will honor my end of July HOLEP operation date and surely hope they will and all will be ok afterwards, of course I don't expect all to be perfect but surely will be happy to remove my catheter that I have been wearing for over 4 months now.

      Thanks for sharing

      John

    • Posted

      Paul.....I'm glad you are doing good.  At 49 why would you have this done.  Was the Holep the only thing they offered you.  Do you think  that you will be able to deal with retro.       Some men can't deal with that.  You said that you have no problem with a erection I hope it stays that way because when they start cutting away at the prostate sometime the doctor messes up and then there is no sex life.  God bless and I hope you get better in time.  Ken  . 

  • Posted

    Tom said previously: In the meantime, don't give up on the CIC - you can get used to it, but you will have to use a hydrophilic catheter. Most companies that sell/make them will send you free samples. Use the smallest one that will work - 14 fr (French) size might work. 12 fr is too small. 16 is "normal". The curved tip (coude tip) is painful for a first time user, but some like it. It didn't work for me and was what my urologist gave me for my first try. 

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    Of course individual experiences may vary, but "16" French is not "normal" in the sense that it is the first size most physicians recommend. The starting size is usually 14 French. Also the "coude tip" should not be any more painful than the straight tip for "first time users" in fact, the reason coude tips are often recommended for those with large prostates is because they are less painful and tend not to stick the prostate but instead the curved shape allows them to go around the prostate.

    Lots more about CIC in the self catherization threads.

    Jim 

    • Posted

      Hi Jim, thanks for the message, I haven't completely given up on CIC, it's just that now my prostate is too big and I have a full blockage and inserting a catheter is very painful because of the prostate obstructions, most of men doing CIC are able to urinate some but I can't urinate a drop so CIC is more painful. I'm waiting for my HOLEP operation hopefully by the end of the month,

      I'll see after that how my body reacts

      I'll keep you posted

      John

    • Posted

      Hi John,

      I haven't been following this thread closely and the point of my post had more to do with clearing up some misconceptions on CIC than recommending it to you. But as for "most of the men doing CIC are able to urinate some", that's not necessarily true. Really runs the gap. But since you're doing the Holep by end of month, makes sense to keep the  Foey in until after the procedure and then take it from there.

      Jim

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