Urethral discomfort.

Hi Ellen, Many thanks for getting back to me. As I am just going to bed I will get back to you tomorrow. :-)

Hi Ellen, I am back now. Thanks again for your reply to my message.  Yes I was talking about the vaginal atrophy a couple of years ago wasnt I and saying how the HRT wasnt working (Sorry I am unable to find the post you mention). However, I have since found out that it works "On and off". I can go through periods when it seems to help, then it doesnt for a while. On and off like that. Almost like the effect of the HRT isnt reliable. Anyway I had not realised the urtheral soreness was a vaginal atrophy symptom. I knew about the vaginal walls thinning from the lack of estrogen but I wasnt aware the lack of estrogen resulted in the urethra thinning too, nor had I any idea that it could result in urgency feelings in the urethra either.

I am sorry to hear you are struggling in a similar way too. I am thinking that if my bladder hadnt gone numb after last years hip replacement I would probably have  gotten urinary urgency in my bladder too. As it was,  I lost all the bladder soreness, burning, bloating and pressure along with the frequency following the op. No idea why.  I was left with just the vaginal soreness, till a year ago today when the urgency started.  Oh so you cant tolerate estrogen creams.  I do hope the Mona Lisa  Touch treatment will help you.  Yes I am inclined to think that Ellen, that the urine is like acid and burns delicate tissues. That may help, to mist the vulva with a water bottle or bidet. I just wish I could get back to being who I was before this uretheral urgency started though.  Whilst there is obviously something going on with my urethra, probably linked to the vaginal atropy as I still get a very sore and burning vagina too, I think anxiety brings a lot of my symptoms on. I start getting these strange sensations in my urethra that lead to soreness and burning. If I am at home it doesnt matter because the loo is near by. Or if I am at a coffee shop for example it wont matter then either because there is a loo near by there too.  But if I get these sensations and Im nowhere near a loo, anxiety sets because Im dreading the urgency feelings coming and I not being able to find a loo. 

Yesterday I was in town and for once I parked well away from public loos. Usually I parked near them so I can use them before I go into town and when I am going back to the car but yesterday I decided to test myself. So I parked up at 10.29am for 2 hours.  Looked in M & S and in the market etc. Went for a decaf coffee at 11.20am. Stayed there till 11.50am and had a wee (Not because of urgency) before I left.  I was heading back to the car at about 12.15pm and started to get the anxiety feelings and I could feel things stirring in my urethra too. Now ordinarily I would have gone to the ladies before I got in the car. In the event I got back in the car and just went home. And would you believe I didnt go to the loo till about 3.45pm!! Its like saying the anxiety settled when I got home so the strange sensations in my urethra didnt reach the urgency stage either. And they felt imminent in the town centre! Cant tell you how this has resulted in me missing out on all sorts during the last year. Even avoided a funeral not long ago because of it.  So nervous of having an accident. I wear Tena Pants or similar all the time but still nervous of them leaking. Anyway perhaps I should smear some of my HRT cream over my urethra, well the end of it anyway, and see if it helps at all. I was definitely diagnosed with vaginal atrophy a couple of years ago. so this urethral problem must be part of it, along with the vaginal soreness and burning. I would have had more symptoms if they hadnt vanished following last years op.  Thanks for listening. Will get the GYNEST cream out tonight. 

Hi Shirley,

Yes, urethral soreness is, indeed, a vaginal atrophy symptom. The urethra and the bladder are filled with estrogen receptors (and they are formed in the fetus from the same material that makes up the vagina), and so they suffer when deprived of estrogen. I think you would be having bladder symptoms had your bladder not gone numb from the operation you had. I have the same bladder symptoms that you had previously, and I sometimes wish my bladder would go numb! The vaginal atrophy came on quite suddenly last year; one day I was perfectly fine, and the next I had all the vaginal burning and urinary symptoms. I wish I could just turn back the clock to that perfectly fine day.

In my experience, anxiety doesn't bring on the symptoms, generally speaking. (I never had such urinary symptoms before menopause, and so many women after menopause develop these very symptoms.) But I do think the urinary symptoms in particular trigger anxiety. After all, the soreness and urgency are so uncomfortable and it's a nervy kind of pain, and the symptoms don't let up (no day off!), so one is bound to get anxious. And if you feel like you might not have a loo nearby, of course that is anxiety provoking. And anxiety affects the bladder/urethra. So it's a vicious cycle. An irritated bladder/urethra creates anxiety, and anxiety makes one focus on the source of the anxiety, the bladder/urethra.

I'm not as unnerved about not parking and shopping in close vicinity of a loo, as I am able to hold it, though it is uncomfortable. I don't have any leakage, and I can just imagine that this would heighten your concern about having a loo nearby. The leakage, as you know, is a bit of incontinence, and incontinence is often a symptom of vaginal atrophy and can also result from childbirth. In fact, when I had the Mona Lisa Touch done (it's a vaginal laser, invented in Italy, for rejuvenating vaginal tissues that have atrophied), my gynecologist told me that she had used it on herself for incontinence due to childbirth. She is not yet in menopause, but already had urethral trouble. The laser treatment worked for her. It's too early for me to know if the Mona Lisa will work on my urgency problem, but I already see progress on the vaginal dryness and soreness, so it is doing something.

I tried two estrogen creams (Estrace and estriol), but they both gave me systemic symptoms after just a few uses (thickening of uterine lining), so I had to quit using them. I am in the US, and we don't have Gynest cream, which is an estriol cream that is weaker than the ones prescibed here. For some reason, American gyns prescribe stronger estrogen creams, and especially favor estradiol. II think weaker is always better with hormones. There are pharmacies (chemists) here that will make up creams of various strengths, so perhaps I should try an estriol cream with the potency of Gynest. Have you ever had any systemic problems with the Gynest? 

I also wanted to tell you that my gyn recommended rubbing on coconut oil and vitamin E oil to soothe vulvar/vaginal dryness. I know that Boots carries the coconut oil. Some in the UK also like Balance Activ Moisture pessaries for dryness.

Anyway, thanks for listening to me, too! 

 

Hi Ellen, Great hearing from you again. I will get back to you over the weekend :-)

Hi Ellen, Just trying to message you again after trying last night and losing the message just before posting it! So frustrating! Back soon hopefully.

Here we are with my 2nd attempt.

Thanks for your message. Great hearing from you.

Thanks for clearing up the fact that uretheral soreness is a vaginal atrophy symptom. I wasn't sure. Yes I can see there must be estrogen receptors in the bladder and urethera and they suffer when deprived of estrogen. And most definitely I would be having bad bladder symptoms if my bladder wasn't numb following the hip replacement. I was having bad bladder symptoms before the op. I understand you wishing your bladder was numb but the downside is of course that I can't tell when it's full so after to keep an eye on roughly how much I drink and the time so I know when to go to the loo. My vaginal atrophy came on the same way three years ago. Very suddenly. Not been the same since.

Having read your take on the anxiety side of the uretheral urgency, I think it makes sense. I was probably misreading what was/is happening. For example down town the other day I thought I felt the anxiety first but probably the early stages of urgency were there first and I was panicking and then the and came on worse. And of course there was no loo near by. Absolutely though, the soreness and urgency are anxiety provoking. Extremely uncomfortable aren't they. As you say, it's all a viscous circle. Interestingly though, you say the symptoms don't let up. Well they don't in as much as I am un- easy going anywhere there may not be a loo nearby and I've put so much off and avoided things because of it. But the soreness and urgency does come and go for me. Some days it can be a lot worse. Some days not so bad. Thing is the urgency is always in my mind when I leave the house and Whilst I can have times of bad soreness and burning at home, I never have urgency episodes at home. Probably because my anxiety re there not being a loo nearby isn't there. That's my guess anyway.

I wish I was like you and could hold it and not be as un-nerved about there being no loos nearby when I go into town. I'm surprised you can hold it really because the sensation is too strong and powerful for me to stand any chance of being able to hold on. So yes it must be very uncomfortable for you. It wouldn't be a bit of leakage for me. It would be a full blown wee. So yes incontinence. Glad the Mona Lisa treatment worked for your gynaecologist and I hope it works for you soon too. It's good that you can see progress on your vaginal soreness and dryness for starters isn't it.

Sorry to hear you have had problems with Estriol and Estrace. I am using the weaker GYNEST cream that you mention. I must admit I think weaker is better too where hormones are concerned. Sounds like you are looking for the GYNEST I am using. No I've not had any systematic problems with it.

Thanks for telling me about the coconut oil and the vitamin E oil. I do use vitamin E suppositories now and again. Not tried coconut oil though. I have tried the Balance Active too before today but found they didn't help much. Vit E is better for me. I go into Boots every now and again so will look for the coconut oil.

Was just chatting to someone else who pointed out using d - mannose for bladder and uretheral soreness. Might give that a try too.

Thanks again. I'm just glad that uretheral soreness and urgency is not something that's unheard of and is a definite part of Vaginal Atrophy.

Hi Shirley,

Nice to hear from you.

Yes, the soreness and burning comes and goes for me, too, but I usually experience it at least once a day. I might be fine all day, and then I will find that I need the loo twice in one hour, but that it will be just a small wee each time. It's just this feeling of needing to wee when I really don't have to, and I can hold off going if I choose. It's very frustrating, and it often provokes anxiety in me. 

I'm glad to hear that you haven't had any problems with the GYNEST. I think that I will give it a try if the Mona Lisa Touch treatments do not resolve this bladder issue. I have used a product similar to Balance Activ. It's called Rephresh, and it lowers the PH of the vagina. However, I think oen or more of the ingredients was making me a bit sore, so I've abandoned using it, and I'm now sticking with the Vitamin E and the coconut oil.

I have heard of d-mannose. I believe it is used to prevent UTIs from starting. Apparently, UTIs are common in women with vaginal atrophy, as a thinned urethra is not as adept at keeping bacteria out of the bladder. I haven't experienced any myself, but I do make sure to drink a lot of water to fend them off. 

Well, I hope the GYNEST will be the solution to your problem. These women's issues are so bothersome! I am really not fond of postmenopause!

 

Hi Ellen, Good to hear from you too. So your soreness and burning comes and goes too. Thought it was just me. And yes I usually experience it at some point every day. Rarely do I get a day completely without it. You mentioned feeling the need to wee when you really don't have to. Thats what I call my Phantom urges. Phantom because when I respond to them and go for a wee, hardly anything happens. I could probably hold off going too but rarely do because I am scared it will turn into urgency. That's the thing with urgency, if you aren't stood right next to a toilet when the feeling comes, you've had it. I would consider it virtually impossible to hang on. Yes this anxiety is the pits isn't it.

No, no problems with GYNEST. In fact I think I will go back on it tonight. Yes try if it the Mona Lisa Touch treatment doesn't work. Yes I abandoned the Balance Active too and I do occasionally use Vit E capsules. I must remember to look out for the coconut oil too.

I'm glad you have never had a UTI. Long may it continue. Yes women with VA seem to suffer more with UTI's for the reason you state. Water is always a good thing isn't it. I've started drinking more lately. I have had UTI's! Absolutely dreadful. You can be dying to wee but holding it back at the same time because weeing is so painful. It's like someone is shoving a sharp knife up your urethera! Usually takes me a week of antibiotics to clear an episode up. Yes D -Mannose is good with UTI's. However someone on another site has said it's helping her sore urethera too and she's not got a UTI. So I am thinking of trying it. At least it can't harm if I do.

Thanks Ellen. I hope the GYNEST works and I hope the Mona Lisa Touch treatment works for you as well. I don't like postmenopause either!

Hi Ellen, Just came across our posts by chance.

How are you doing? Hows things? Hope you are doing ok.

Im managing the vaginal soreness and burning with Vagifem although I still get days when you would think I dont use the Vagifem or anything else come to that!

I still get the urgency but not as much. It has improved a bit these last couple of months though Im not out of the woods yet.

I had a 40 mile drive to see my friend in Clitheroe recently. It was the furthest I had been on my own for a couple of years and the longest I had been away from the house too. Felt uneasy and tense but no dramas all day.

However I had an urgency episode on the hospital corridor a week ago! I volunteer in the hospital shop and there was a major problem parking. No spaces and other people driving round the car parks trying to find spaces too. So I was going to be late to the shop even though I set off in good time . The car park I had to park in was at the opposite end of the main corridor to the hospital shop! I think I got tense and wound up with the bad parking situation and being late to the shop and as I approached the corridor I could feel the urgency building up! But heres the thing. Something told me not to run to the loo at the far end of the corridor. So I didnt. I just walked at a steady pace. And the urgency feelings disappeared! I am thinking that running to the loo like a mad woman would have resulted in more tension and panic and worsened the symptoms..

Anyway that was Tuesday last week. By Thursday I had a walk round a nearby town for an hour without any drama. Yes I felt a bit nervy but I was ok.

So I am hoping that the more I go out, the less I get episodes like I did last Tuesday.

Hi iam experiencing same symptoms since 4 months after a uti i also have health anxiety which makes everything so bad did you find anything helpful?

Sorry to hear you are experiencing the same symptoms sonal. Not good. I have health anxiety too, mostly around bladder issues. But this urethral soreness/urgency is getting me down . Am trying clomitrazole at the moment. Chemist gave me it the other day. Just wish I had an answer that cleared the whole thing up once and for all.

Sorry you are having the same problems. I am trying Clomitrazole at the moment. Its a cream. Chemist gave me it the other day. Wish I had a concrete answer that would end all this once and for all. So sick of these urethral problems. :-(

Iam scared about it being ic , this thing is giving me nightmares

Im scared too sonal that I will never get over the urethral urgency symptoms. :-(