Vagifem vs Estrace Vaginal Cream?
Posted , 11 users are following.
Any input would be so helpful!
Long story short, I've been told by 2 gyno's I have AV.
My question is which one is better, if there's a difference, and has the lowest absorption into the blood stream. I have an unreasonable fear of medication bc of my current health issues and I'm reading conflicting info.
The first doc gave me Vagifem 10 mcg vaginal inserts, per her directions, 2x a week.
Second doc gave me Estrace Vaginal Cream, her instructions are 1 applicator 4 grams, 2x a day for 2 weeks, then 2x times a week after. That seems like a lot to me.
I'm literally making myself sick agonizing over which one is the least likely to seep into the blood stream. I know they both will but I want the least amount possible. The pharmacist isn't much help..
I'm so ready for this menopause crap to be over, I feel like I've already checked out of living a normal life. My anxiety is off the charts and no one to talk to about it, I don't currently know anyone personally going through this.
Bit of background, I had a hysterectomy 16 yrs ago, but kept my ovaries. Started having issues in July with yeast infections, was finally told it was AV and I needed vaginal estrogen. Currently having headaches, dizziness, and awful sadness, crying for no reason and dryness. Went through hot flashes and night sweats a few yrs ago, so those aren't an issue. Other medical issues, heart valve problems, high blood pressure and cholesterol, hence my fear of causing more problems with estrogen getting into my system.
Any info or advice would be much appreciated!!
2 likes, 53 replies
melinda128 Gigi368
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Gigi368 melinda128
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Thank you Melinda!! How much of the Estrace do you use and how often, if you don't mind me asking? I've been putting off using either one of them, I'm just down right terrified but I know this feeling of normal, in the southern region won't last and I need to get with the program before any other issues start. I don't have bladder infection issues so far, but I get a feeling of heaviness and frequency urges, but no burning when I go. My main complaint is yeast infections and dryness, like sand paper. I haven't been intimate since the beginning of July, so I have no idea if it's painful for that or not. Prior to July I had zero issues, woke up July 22nd miserable and it's snowballed from there 😞
melinda128 Gigi368
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I started with half of gram for seven nights. Now one gram twice a week. Hang in there. My insurance would not pay for it. But, I went online found a coupon on Estrace's website and that brought the price down.
Gigi368 melinda128
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Hi Melinda!
I finally used it last night. I used a gram but didn't use the applicator. I used my finger to apply it and rub it in and spread it around so it wasn't in a clump and then used some on the outside too. I don't know if it'll work that way though. I'm not worried about wasting any my insurance covers all of it but 3.00. Thankfully!!
melinda128 Gigi368
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Gigi368 melinda128
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Thank you Melinda!! I know I won't see results right away but I had to bite the bullet at some point and use one of them and since the cream is supposed to work faster that's what I chose. If I notice any thing unusual I'll stop. I'm. Calling my doc today about the Estroil. I'm not hopeful but it's worth a shot.
I've dealt with anxiety since my early 20's and it is the pits to put it nicely. I think it makes all this worse! I'm sorry you have to deal with it too!
Suki_girl Gigi368
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You need to try both and see which suits you. Some people get on well with vagifem, others don't. Some get on well with vaginal cream, others don't. You can have reactions to either. They can sting, make you more sore or make you swell up. I had vaginal dryness and painful intercourse. I tried vagifem first and after a few days I swelled up inside so much that I couldn't even get a finger in. After some time I tried vaginal cream (ovestin) and got on absolutely fine with that - my vagina feels and looks 20 years younger! Sex is wonderful again.
My doctor says, and I have read, that with vaginally applied oestrogen the hormone just stays around in the local area, it doesn't enter the the rest of the body (or only negligibly).
Some advice - try some of the cream on your outer area first, then you will know if it is going to sting or burn you. You don't want to find that out after you have inserted a load! Same with the vagifem - I just rubbed the tablet on the outer bits.
With both vagifem and ovestin I had to use them every day for 2 weeks, for an initial blast of hormone, then twice a week after that. Of course I only managed a few days with the vagifem before I puffed up so much inside I couldn't get the applicator in (let alone a penis!).
kathryn26445 Suki_girl
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Suki_girl kathryn26445
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Suki_girl Gigi368
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To add to my previous post - which country are you in? In the UK we use ovestin as a vaginal cream which contains estriol. Estriol is considered to be the safest oestrogen to take because, unlike estrone and estrodiol in HRT (which are synthestic manufactured copies of those two hormone found in women) it doesn't increase the risk of cancer. Some doctors consider Estriol to be the safe, protective Estrogen. It is a mild estrogen that has been used in Europe for 30 years. Here’s what the medical literature states about Ovestin, a natural, Bio-Identical Estriol prescribed in Europe: “Ovestin contains the natural hormone Estriol, which is a weak estrogen. Unlike other estrogens, estriol is short-acting since it has only a short retention time in the nuclei of endometrial cells. Estriol prevents hot flashes, bone loss, thinning of the skin and vaginal membranes yet it is 1000 times less stimulating to the breast tissue than is Estradiol. Not only does it NOT promote breast cancer, but considerable evidence indicates that it may protect against and reverse breast cancer". Estriol is not the weak oestrogen as originally thought, it is just needed in more quantity. It is a protective oestrogen that balances out the action of the other two oestrogen in the female body.
I believe that estriol is a bioidentical hormone and has been used in Japan and Europe for some years. I don't know if it available in the US. Where do you live? Estriol is used in the vaginal cream because it is particularly good at supporting sexual and urinary health. Studies in Japan show that it reduces the risk of cardiovascular disease and increases bone density.
Gigi368 Suki_girl
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Suki,
Thank you for weighing in!! I'm in the U.S. I have no idea if it's available here. Is it prescription or over the counter?
I do have a family history of breast cancer and I had to have my hysto because of fibroids, I'm not really worried about cancer though, I'm more concerned with the blood clot, stroke and heart attack warnings. I'm on a blood pressure pill and a heart pill bc of A-fib (irregular heartbeat). I was reading about the Estrace raising blood pressure. Plus reports of hair falling out, ugh! I would love to get by just using moisturizers but I need to firm the walls up. I know everyone is different and reacts differently, I'm very sensitive to meds oral and topical that I'm terrified of both of them.
I sound rediclious!
I obviously want the lowest possible that works and I can't find any info on which one is 'safest', even though everyone says they're both safe. I'm going on what info I've gathered and if I read it right it says that Vagifem is an "ultra low dose" but takes more time to work than Estrace. I was toying with the idea of using about a half gram of the Estrace and using my finger to apply it inside and rubbing it in,I have no idea if that works though. I'm totally clueless on all of this, as you can tell. I'm not wild about the idea of seepage from the cream..
At this moment I'm not having any urinary issues and I actually feel fairly normal but that won't last. I'm not so bad that I can't insert anything, I had no problem with my exam Tuesday, the speculum went in smoothly with no resistance. My main problem is burning, minimal itching, and an overall feeling of sandpaper and occasionally the need to urinate too often and some bladder pressure, and yeast infections, which the gyno said will continue unless we get a handle on the atrophy. I used Replens twice and coconut oil on the outside, and for about a week now the symptoms have been very minimal. I know that was just a quick relief though.
So I'm just overwhelmed and trying to figure out the best way to go and gaining the courage to use them.. I will try your suggestion of using a little on the outside first though!!!
Suki_girl Gigi368
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There are some other posts on Estriol. You might want to have a look at them. Because it is a bioidentical hormone I don't know if you can get it in the US. Others were talking about getting it from a compounding pharmacy (we don't have those in the UK, I don't think). I managed for 4 years using coconut oil, vitamin e oil and vitamin e pessaries. I still use them, but the increasing pain during intercourse made me decide to try the vagina lol oestrogen. I apply coconut oil both externally and internally after every time I visit the toilet. It is perfectly safe to use internally, it has antibacterial and antifungal properties so many women with a tendency for vagainal infections use it. I apply vit e oil (form an oral capsule) once in the day. Just before I go to bed, on the days I am not using the ovestin, I insert a Key E pessary (I know those are available in the US because I have to get them imported from there!)
I have had no problems with leaking vaginal cream. I put it in before I got to bed, so it has all the night to work. Some drips out in the morning when I do my first pee, and that's it. I don't wear underwear (for vaginal health) and I have no problems with cream leaking out in the day.
You might also like to try sea buckthorn oil (taken orally), there is some very good research where they measure the health and thickness of the vaginal wall and it shows that taking 3g of sea buckthorn oil a day is beneficial to the vagainal wall, comparable to using hormones. The researchers concluded that it was a viable alternative for women who cannot use hormones. I take 3 500mg tablets in the morning and the same in the evening. I really feel it made a difference and kept my vagina healthy. However, it cannot help improve moisture levels and extreme dryness was my problem. I never had any pain or discomfort from it on a daily basis, just painful intercourse. I like sex, so when it started to get painful I finally relented and tried the vagifem, then ovestin.
Suki_girl
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Oh, also forgot to say, with relevance to your concerns about blood pressure, clots, etc, that stuides in Japan show that Estriol reduces the risk of cardiovascular disease. It is considered the 'safe' oestrogen.
Suki_girl Gigi368
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This was from Jean0078, in the US:-
I used estriol mixed with olive oil on the outer tissues. It was from a compounding Pharmacy and I rub in two drops every night. Cost for me is about $35 for three months worth, The Dr who prescribed it said it would take about 6 months to work - I was quite atrophied. I think it took about that long. I have been using it for 2 1/2 years and can even miss a couple nights here and there with no problems. Everything looks "normal" again ! It does not circulate in your body. It stays just where you apply it. Estriol is very weak ( google types of estrogen) but it works. No more irritated tissue .
Gigi368 Suki_girl
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I found a compounding pharmacy very near my house! I had no idea it was there. Now the problem is getting my doc to prescribe it. I just used about a gram of the Estrace. I used some on the inside and some on the outside. I didn't realize it was so thick. Now I'm nervous as all h*ll! I took a nerve pill to try to calm down. It's 3:45 a.m. here and my S.O. is getting ready to leave for work so I'll be alone for the next 12 hours. So far im not feeling any burning but i dont know if I got enough in there to tell.. I'm such a big baby! At 49 yrs old I need to get over my fear of medications. I've had so many side effects though my mind automatically thinks the worst! A water pill for my blood pressure almost killed me 4 yrs ago, it took all my potassium out of my system and almost caused my heart to stop, so I have major fear. I doubt I'll sleep, I'm already that anxious and I just used it 15 min. ago. Thank you so much for all the information! I appreciate it so much!!!
Suki_girl Gigi368
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Gigi, I know exactly how you feel. Almost everything I tried on or in my vagina made me react. Water based lubes stung me, things containing the super moisturiser hyaluronic acid either stung me or made me swell up. I was desperate. I was ordering stuff from all over the world and trying it, just so I could find something that would moisturise my vagina and provide lubrication during intercourse. I spent so much money! The only thing I could tolerate were natural oils. So I used coconut oil and vit e oil, like I said and tonnes of Yes oil based lubricant during intercourse. I even tried sea buckthorn oil on my vulva. It didn't sting but it has a horrible smell and is a bright orange colour so everything it touched was stained orange! Like I said I managed with the natural oils for 4 years. When sex got painful I tried vagifem and that made me swell up - my doctor had never heard of this happening and said I must have had an allergic reaction. It was a long time before I plucked up courage to try something else. When I got the ovestin, it sat in my drawer for a couple of weeks before I finally tried it. I was not hopeful. I expected it to sting. And I knew that if I expected that, then it probably would sting because my expectation would cause it! But, I was pleasantly surprised, it didn't sting or make me swell up and it rapidly gave me a moist robust vagina like it used to be. I am sure that there will be something out there that works for you, you just have to keep trying and stay positive.
melinda128 Suki_girl
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Suki_girl melinda128
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Thanks for that Melinda. I haven't made my own suppositories, no. Probably cheaper than the bought ones! I haven't really had to, the weather is so cold here the coconut oil is rock hard most of the time, so I have have to gouge out solid lumps of it to insert anyway. But I find coconut rapidly turns to liquid at body temperature and soon drips out. Don't you find it drips out? The Key e ones are coconut oil and vit e oil with palm oil. I thing the palm oil retains its solidity for longer so it doesn't drip out until I do my first wee in the morning.
melinda128 Suki_girl
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Suki_girl melinda128
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wendy62425 Gigi368
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Hi Gigi
let me know how you do with the doctor and compound pharmacy. I am also in the US in Virginia. I have had no side effects with both Estrace or Vagifem and have a friend in the U.K. that does not either. I know we are all different but wanted to share a positive.
Have a good day🌷
Wendy
Gigi368 wendy62425
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Hi Wendy!
I didn't have much luck with my doc since it has to be compounded, she's not very familiar with it. She's going to do some research and we're going to discuss it at my Nov appointment. I've been on the Estrace Cream for a week now. And to my surprise after the second application I was already feeling 80% better! The sandpaper feeling was almost gone and going to the bathroom was great, no stinging and I was emptying my bladder completely with out having to bear down. On the moring of my 4th application I woke up feeling pretty awful and it lasted all day, so I skipped that dose. The next morning I felt great and used it again that night, woke up Monday morning feel awful again, and skipped Monday nights dose. Now having said all that I suffer from severe anxiety and take meds for it, so is it the Estrace causing the symptoms or is it my anxiety or am I trying to come down with something.. that remains to be seen. I talked to my doc today and we're going to cut it back to every other day and I'm journaling the amount and time I use it and how I'm feeling to see if we can find a pattern. I'll resume it tonight and see how I feel in the morning.
More on the positive side of things.. I'm using 1 gram at bedtime and I also smear some on the outside. Obviously I can't see inside so I don't know what that looks like, but the outside tissues look better than they have in years. Everything is plumper and moist, and what Suki said with the stuff she uses, it's looking youthful again. No longer looking like a shriveled prune LOL! I can sit comfortably and walking feels like silk! I still get some twinges of heaviness, but I've only used it 5 out of the 7 days I've had it so I'm sure after several more weeks I'll notice more differences.
Suki_girl Gigi368
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Great Gigi, I'm so pleased it is working for you. Hello youthful vagina! After 2 weeks I felt back to normal. When you say you woke up feeling awful - in what way? Did your vagina feel awful or you yourself generally?
Gigi368 Suki_girl
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Suki,
Me in general... I woke up drenched and sweating my butt off, I was dizzy, sick to my stomach, heart pounding, headache and felt foggy all day. So I skipped it Sat night. Felt fine Sunday, so I resumed Sunday night, and Monday woke up feeling the same way except add diarrhea to the symptoms. Skipped Monday night, but I'm still feeling strange today, pretty much the same but eliminate the diarrhea and add heart burn. So far the southern region is feeling great. My S.O. and I even gave "it" a go Sunday night and I was amazed!!! Zero issues.. no pain during or after, and he said it felt fuller and "softer", no need for any lubes and I noticed more feeling and big time sensitivity! Right now though, I feel like my head is going to float away and my face is feeling flushed like you would with a fever but I have no fever. I did the night sweats and hot flashes several years ago, so I don't know if the Estrace is causing that or if I'm trying to catch a virus. I think I'll wait until tomorrow night to start using it again, to see if these symptoms go away.
Suki_girl Gigi368
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Are those known side effects of estrace? I'm surprised because I thought if one is using the cream the effects are local (that's what my doctors told me) and absorption into your general system is minimal. At least the sex was good (I am more sensitive now too!).
Gigi368 Suki_girl
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I have no idea since I won't read side effects, my doc doesn't seem to think so but no one takes me serious when I tell them I'm highly sensitive to medicine....... Maybe I'm trying to come down with a virus, or it's just meno symptoms in general? We're scaling it back to every other day and see what happens. I think I'll also cut it down to half a gram and see what happens but I'm skipping tonight to see how I feel tomorrow, in the mean time I'm using coconut oil to preserve the moisture, I'm not trying to back slide on the progress I've made in just a short week...
kathryn26445 Suki_girl
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Suki_girl kathryn26445
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wendy62425 Gigi368
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Please keep us posted as how you are doing.
Wendy