Vaginal Atrophy

Hi Beverly. Thank you so much for replying.  This is such a horrid condition, apparently Ive got it for life. Im 69.  Been told its treatable but not curable.    Was told 4 years ago by the hospital I had Vaginal Atrophy and was put on Vagifem pessaries and been on them ever since but the atrophy is quite bad as my doctor has said its very tender up there.  I started to have spots of blood  and i think the pessary is causing this  as the end of the applicator is slightly sharp

Vagifem didn’t work for me. There are plenty of alternatives. Your dr should offer alternatives to you. The ovestin cream has changed my life. 

ruth, I believe Vagifem is estradiol which is what I'm using. You have been using it for 4 years, but the atrophy is getting worse now? I did not start using it when I was first diagnosed 3 years ago. Am two months into using  it now. Guess time will tell how well it will work for me. 

I plan to start taking the buckthorne as a supplement. 

There is another woman who posts here who had the Mona Lisa laser as I believe the hormones weren't enough. She is very happy with the results. But I believe she had a severe UTI problem. I haven't gotten those. Is that a problem you have?

suki, I just realized you are saying the weaker hormone estriol worked for you. Is that typical? Did you have a bad reaction to the vagifem or did it just not work?

I had a bad reaction to the vagifem. After just a few days it had made me swell up so much inside I couldn’t get a finger or the applicator in, let alone a penis! Estriol is weaker but it is used in a more concentrated form. I am pleased that it has worked for me because it is the protective estrogen so, unlike estrodiol and estrone which have risky side effects, it actually protects against cancer and cardiovascular problems.

Hi Suki girl

Is the Estriol that you use the same as Estrace cream?  Is the Vagifem 10mg a lower dose with less cancer risk as well?

The cream I use is called ovestin, containing estriol, and available on prescription in the U.K., Europe and Japan. Estrace cream, the estring and vagifem pessaries contain estrodiol. All vaginally applied estrogens are considered significantly safer than oral HRT tablets because the amount of estrogen that enters your blood (i.e. your whole system) is negligible. However, estriol is known as the protective estrogen because studies have shown that it actually lowers the risk of cancers and cardiovascular problems. Estrodiol and estrone, the other two estrogens found in the female body can increase the risk of cancer and cardiovascular problems but that applies to oral HRT tablets - like I said the amount of these hormones that are found in your blood when used locally in the vagina is negligible. It is just comforting to know that estriol has that protective function.

Hi Ruth, I am 65 had an early menopause after hysterectomy at 37 and was on HRT patches for years.  However since stopping them (can't remember how many years ago now) intercourse is extremely painful/impossible - it's agony.  I have tried all the usual, lubrication creams and also Vagifem pessaries, all to no avail.  My sex drive has completely dried up, and for me it's not an issue - I feel relieved in a way to be no longer subjected to my monthly reproductive hormones - it feels like I am like a child free from those hormonal shackles.  Husband isn't as firm as he used to be either.  I am wondering if all this hype about the over 60s rampant sex lives is really true?  My brother and my twin sister don't bother with sex any more either.  I guess it is part of our natural life cycle?

 

Hi Suki girl.  .  just come back from my docs.  I told her I have a slight bleed but then it goes off.  Sometimes i get nothing for couple of days then suddenly it will appear.   She said just to cover her back would I go to the Gyn and see if there was anything else wrong.  I said what per cent are you not happy with the way things are.  She said out of 100%  she said 1%.  She said she just covering her back.  She said I dont think theres anything wrong.  I had a cervix check 4 years ago when the Gyn checked and they said nothing wrong but its definitely Atrophy.  Ive come back quite cross.  Im carrying on with the Estriol cream

Why are you cross? It is good that they think it is nothing serious. It is also good that they are checking for anything serious, just in case.

Im cross because my doc said she knows theres nothing really wrong but shes just covering her back.   She has said previously ignore the light bleeding your getting as it goes off  although comes back..  I could go through a lot of interference and disturb everything

HUm, yes, I get you. Although it I should good they are checking if it I still something more serious, if that checking involves insertion of a speculum, I wouldn’t want it. Beverly and I were discussing just that. With all of the modern technology and the laparoscopic cameras they use in keyhole surgery, you’d think there would be some other way of looking up the vagina than stretching it open with a speculum.

I totally agree with you and Beverly about using speculums and such like but how on earth can they check.  A camera would be just as invasive and extremely painful.    My doc is only 1% unsure about anything more serious.  She told me she is not worried but she says she needs to cover her back.   I am going through enough down there as Ive got external piles which are very sore at the moment.

Dont they understand with Atrophy that you are already sore up there and im treating it with the Estriol cream.  They could undo all that

I’m not sure a laparoscopic camera would be as painful, the tubes that contain them can be pretty thin and flexible. They must have smooth ends too because I had a colposcopy where one of those cameras took a trip up my bum to look at my small intestine - if it can get up there smoothly then it can get up a vagina!

ruth, at my recent appointment I told the (new) gyn that examination would be impossible as I had bleeding after the one a few years back. She said she could absolutely do it so it would not be painful as she would use a baby's speculum. I had never heard of one (really, a baby??), but it worked and I had no pain or bleeding. So why not tell your doctor that's what you want used?

Suki, I'm sure it wouldn't be as bad, but people who have awakened during a colonoscopy have said it is excruciating. I'm not sure why. Maybe intestines are just really sensitive.

Re the internal exam a baby's speculem is what worked for me.

Eh? I wasn’t asleep during my colposcopy- wide awake and watching the whole thing on TV! It didn’t hurt at all until he got to the end and said “just a little more”, then there was just a brief moment of excruciating pain and it was over. My mum and brother had the same and they weren’t asleep either.

I don't remember the drug they use, but you absolutely forget everything. One second a nurse was near my arm with a needle telling me how I would have to help the doc by swallowing the tube (was also having an endoscopy) the next moment I was totally awake in another room. 

I know 2 women who said they woke, but were not able to talk to let the doc know and the pain was horrible. I remember nothing so I can't say, but I sure would rather NOT watch it! Are you sure you were given nothing?Once had a cyst or some growth removed from my cervix with the doctor giving me a blow by blow description of how deep she had to DIG to get it all out. Thought I would vomit and had to tell her to "stop sharing". Am just now being able to tolerate an eye exam! As a child I NEVER considered being a nurse!

hi beverly.  Good advice.  Thank you.  A baby spectulum.  Thats why I bled a few years back as the gyn had put instruments up me and the pain was absolutely terrible.  Ive never forgotten it.   Ive had lot of light bleeding last few days but in the last 24 hours it has completely gone off.

Isnt this Atrophy  horrible. Its a long process to get it right.  Im now putting Estriol cream up every other night and Yes moisturizing gel up 3 times a day to repair the tissues.  I hope your coping with L.S. ok

Perhaps they put you to sleep if you are having a tube down your throat as well. I just had it up my bum. Yes, I was totally awake through the whole thing because I remember thinking what an inflated ego the consultant had (the way he spoke to the nurses). I want to watch what they are doing to me! I had a biopsy done in my cervix once and watched the gynaecologist doing that on TV screen. I had keyhole surgery on my shoulder last year to remove a lump of calcium in my tendon, shave off a bone spur and burn off the rough edges of cartilage - I had a nerve block to my arm (at my request) was wide awake and watched the whole thing on a screen. It is my body and I want to know what they are doing to it.

Hi all, I had both at the same time, more than once. They used to offer sedation UK, but now dont. The endoscopy was soon over, the colonoscopy took ages, they had problems getting the endoscooe round bends, the higher they got. I think it depehds on your anatomy. My son had a colonoscopy and even with gas and air to help, couldnt cope with the pain, and ended up going for a CT scan.

It may be that all doctors don't have baby speculums available. Had an exam by another doc several years ago who said she was using her smallest speculum and as much lube as possible. That's when I decided it would be the last exam I would ever endure. I remember the nurse grimacing in sympathy. It has only been my newest gyn that mentioned the baby speculum. I would say she is far more tuned into the pain & problems involved although I am not impressed with her team's poor follow up when it comes to contacting me about anything. Puts me in the position of feeling like a pest trying to get info.

Bottom line, I would like all the women on this board to know that baby speculums exist and you should insist on one if you are concerned about bleeding and excess pain. 

Suki, Just before the nurse gave me the shot she was explaining that I would have to help the doc by swallowing to get the tube down. I was somewhat horrified as I could not imagine not gagging. So clearly on some level I was expected to be awake. However, I remembered absolutely nothing until the moment I "woke" in the recovery room. It was like a switch went on. No grogginess; just awake. Must have something to do with the drug itself. 

I think you might be a bit unusual in wanting to watch as someone is operating on you. I have NO desire to at all. 

Strange how Atrophy is. One minute youve got a slight bleed the next minute nothing hardly.  Im using Estriol cream every other night,  though i must admit I got up in the night to go to the loo and i shouldnt have done cause your supposed to lye down ALL night.   The bleed comes after ive done the Yes moisturizing gel as though im catching the delicate tissues  when Im up there

Hi Suki girl  what is the difference between Estradiol and Estriol cream please.  I was thinking of going back to Vagifem pessaries as this Estriol cream is messy and im still getting breakthrough bleeds.although I think it might be causing ive been using far too much Yes moisturizing gel and the applicator is bring a lot of muck down

Hi Ruth, I believe I told you this just last week. Estrace cream, the estring and vagifem pessaries contain estrodiol. The cream you use contains estriol. All vaginally applied estrogens are considered significantly safer than oral HRT tablets because the amount of estrogen that enters your blood (i.e. your whole system) is negligible. However, estriol (in the cream) is known as the protective estrogen because studies have shown that it actually lowers the risk of cancers and cardiovascular problems. Estrodiol and estrone, the other two estrogens found in the female body can increase the risk of cancer and cardiovascular problems but that applies to oral HRT tablets - like I said the amount of these hormones that are found in your blood when used locally in the vagina is negligible. It is just comforting to know that estriol has that protective function.

But Ruth, you cannot keep changing your treatment. You need to stick with one, use it for some time, and give it a chance to work. I thought you were pleased to use the estriol cream because estriol is safer than estrodiol and you preferred the applicator to the vagifem applicator. Your bleeding is not caused by the cream or pessary, it is caused by your severe atrophy. Give the cream a chance to work. Due to the advanced state of your atrophy it will take the treatment some time to have any benefit.

Hi Suki girl.  Very sorry i forgot. Your quite right. Its just me , trying to get it  right.  I will be staying on the Estriol cream which is safer as you say.  My doc says the Atrophy some weeks ago was getting a little better and that shes not worried about it.    I told her i have slight bleeding that comes and goes but she says not to worry.   Im only using the Yes moisturizing gel once a day now and the cream every other night as I think theres too much going up.    I did no cream last night or  moisturizing gel and hardly any blood and nothing much this morning. Im getting bits.    I know that when  the gyn looked 4 years ago roughly the Atrophy was pretty severe so has I suffered all my life with very heavy periods,  its going to take some time to get over this

Once ive put the Estriol cream up and gone to sleep does it matter if i have to get up in the night for a wee  cause im absolutely bursting or do I have to wait till morning

Would love an answer Suki girl as Ive got to use Estriol cream tonight and I know 

ruth, rather than try to remember why not keep a notebook. I do that now as there's a lot of info. Suki is right about sticking to a specific plan long enough to know if it works. And keep a calendar so you know when you've used what, for how long and the results. Doctors can only do so much. You have to arm yourself with factual information so when you see the doctor you can discuss what regimen you've tried and for how long. They have hundreds of patients and you have only one body so it's easier for you to keep track of what's going on than it is for them. If you keep changing what they are telling you to do they will have no basis on which to make a decision.

Write down the different forms of estrogen including the brand names so you won't get confused. You can copy what suki has written and paste it into an email to send to yourself. If you don't know how to do that get someone to show you. It will be helpful for you.

In the meantime write it in a notebook.

It really depends on you. I’d prefer to have it in all night so if I need a wee in the night I just ignore it and go back to sleep. It depends on if you are able to do that or not.

Sorry didnt get to finish my message.  Would love to know if I should stay lying down all night after applying Estriol cream tonight as i have to get up in middle of night for toilet.  Does it matter

you know your own body best.

Thank you Beverly for your comments.  I much appreciate it.  Its so nice to be able to talk to people like you and the rest of the ladies on the Forum.  It gives me great comfort.

Hi Suki girl.  Im doing the cream tonight and will do my best to stay lay down ALL night instead of getting up for a wee.  Im sure that way the cream will work better.. Thank you again

Hi Suki girl.  Did the cream last night about 9.00 as went to bed early.  Had to go  for wee at about 1.00 plus i had a bleed  which i think the applicator disturbed.  Got up this morning and as my doctor said in the mornings when you get up and maybe have a bleed its due to gravity.   Its now going off.      I dont have a bleed on the night and mornings of no cream,  how strange.    Must be worse Atrophy than what my doc says

give the estriol time to work 😊

now ive had a phone call off the hosp saying theyve had letter from my doc stating that ive been on Estriol now and still has problems of spotting could they look into it.  Hosp have said today they want to do a ultra sound scan .  I said as lon ng as they dont put anything up besides a baby speculum

I had an ultrasound scan when I had irregular and heavy periods at the start of premenopause. They do it just to check there is nothing more serious going on. They used an internal ultrasound scanner which was inserted into my vagina. I can’t remember if they used a speculum (it was more than 5 years ago).

Thank you for coming back to me Suki girl.  They are going to do ultra sound scan on the top of my stomach and according to what they see they will discuss it with me.  I spoke to a very nice Senior nurse at the hospital  in depth yesterday and i have told her that if it comes to it they are not putting gadgets up me.  The most they will do is a baby speculum  i told them.    the nurse says she will just look up if necessary.  How nice is she !      But what ive told her whats going on she doesnt think theres too much wrong.   Im not using the Estriol cream for a few days cause Ive only got a  trickle of blood at moment whereas when i use the cream  i get a lot more which tells me the applicator is affecting the tissues.

Hi Ruth

im not sure you stopping the Estriol cream is a good idea......the estrogen cream is what heals the VA vagina.  You need to keep using the cream as directed by your doctor so you can heal.  I am using the Vagifem.....if I slow down using it the pain comes back.  As Suki recommends...use your finger instead of applicator.

I wish you well.  Let us know outcome of ultra sound.

Wendy

Ive spoken to my doctor today and she said if I dont start using  Estriol cream again , the bleeding could get much worse.  So thats probably why i was  having a bleed when out shopping today,  cause i hadnt  used the cream.  I know I shall have a bleed after the cream but my doctor said if you do bleed at least you know why.  Its because of the applicator

Hi Wendy. Thanks for coming back to me.  Your quite right,  my doctor said if I dont start using the Estriol cream again I will start bleeding. I was in town today and all because I didnt use the Estriol cream at the weekend i had a bleed. ,    My doctor said if you bleed after the cream at least youll know why.  Itll be cause of the applicator.    I was going back to Vagifem pessaries but Suki girl said the  Estriol in the cream is safer than the Estriol in the vagifem

Hi Ruth, you need to use the estriol cream when you’ve been told to by your gp. Use a finger and spread it around the vagina entrance, gently. Don’t keep starting and stopping or you won’t get anywhere. You may need to use this for the rest of your life. Once it’s absorbed, it will work on the vagina as well, then you may be able to use the applicator, but you may not have to. For the time being, use your finger, give it time to work,it can take months. Don’t stop using it.

Hi Laura.   im starting the Estriol cream again tonight.  My doctor said not to stop again as it could cause bleeding.  Ive had bleeding today and im sure i will again tonight after ive used the cream.  I cant use my finger so im using the applicator.   I think the reason for the bleed today was cause i took a quick break from the cream.  I need to get my vagina used to the cream.  Just for a while im putting it in every other night and then reduce it to twice a week

Yes, you need to keep using it or you’ll have withdrawal bleeds

Ruth, you need to stick with the cream and give it a chance to work. With your advanced level of atrophy this could take months. You will not see any improvement over a few weeks. You need to be patient, stick with one medication, don’t keep chopping and changing and don’t stop the regimen the dr has told you to use. You stopped using the vagifem because you didn’t like the applicator. It seems you are worried about the applicator for the cream too. I must admit, if I just push the applicator straight in, it does seem to catch on something. I don’t think the vagina is a straight, smooth tube. I have developed a method to stop it catching on the inside of my vagina whereby I put my finger in first and slide the applicator in, pressed against my finger and at an angle. That seems to work for me. Of course we are all different shapes and sizes so what works for me may not work for someone else. If the applicator was still causing me problems, I would just squeeze the cream onto my fingertip and insert it that way. As long as you get it inside it doesn’t matter if it is not all the way up - the effect spreads through the tissues.

hi Suki girl.  ive started using the cream again last night and all im getting is brown stains, considering yesterday i kept getting a bleed.  The only trouble was in the middle of the night after id put the cream in,  i was absolutely bursting for a wee.  I was just too full up to go back to sleep.  So had to get up for the loo but then lay straight back down again.   I spoke to my doc this morning and she said to give it about 3 months on the cream then she will put me back on Vagifem cause thats better for me.  I told her the Esteriol is better in the cream than the Vagifem but she said no,  Doctors prefer the Vagifem.  Its safer

Give it time. I think drs disagree on which is safer. You should go with what you are happy with. You know your body best.

Yes but do you know for sure that Estriol cream is more cancer safe than Vagifem pessaries

That’s what the research appears to be saying. But, like I said, the amount of estrogen that enters your system from any estrogen used locally in the vagina is negligible. So, just go with what you are happier with.

If you are worried you should always do your own research. That’s what I do, rather than rely on what others are telling you.

Oh well here goes for another night with Estriol cream.  I did the last one on Tuesday with no bleed at all.  At moment im doing it every other night for a week then changing it to twice a week..   For the last 48 hours ive had no bleed at all which has got to mean a lot.  Im going for the Ultra sound scan next Thursday  just to be sure but im stopping them going up inside.  Im actually putting plenty of cream on the end of the applicator once I have filled the applicator up before I insert it and I think this is helping

I am wondering why  I am feeling so full in middle of night after using the cream.  Its a feeling of dying for a wee but is it the cream sitting there making me feel full or is it im dying for a wee

I cover myself and the applicator in coconut oil - slips in easier then. Good luck with the ultrasound scan.

not sure what’s going on there. Best ask your dr.

Hi Suki girl.  Since I started Estriol cream again,  ive not had a bleed since Wednesday then did the cream again on Thursday,  no blood on the applicator which was coated with the cream on the end before I put it up and no bleed at all since so far. Doing it again tonight, so fingers crossed.   Also i managed to stay lying down ALL night on Thursday..

Great Ruth. But don’t obsess about the bleeding. It will take some time for the still to make a difference.

Hi Suki girl.   After using the cream last night and staying lying down all night i have no bleed but I do have bits of fall out from the cream.  It feels like im wetting myself.  ...Feels strange

Hi Suki girl.   Did the cream last night.  Only problem is,   i wake in the middle of the night absolutely bursting for a wee to the point if I dont get up for the loo I shall wee myself.   Yet the previous time I had no problem, I just went back to sleep.   Is it because the cream is sitting there in the vagina and making it feel  'full up'

I don’t need think you need to wee is due to the cream. You shouldn’t really be able to feel it up there. I suggest not drinking before you go to bed. It really doesn’t matter if you do need to wee in the night. The cream will still do its job. Like I said, just carry on as you are and see how it goes. It will take time.

Hi Suki girl and everyone.  How is everybody.    Im still doing my Estriol cream every other night and  so far no bleed at all.   All i have if anything is brown stains when ive put the cream up.   Im going to see the Gyn on Thursday just for an Ultra sound scan to satisfy my doctor more than anything.  But because things have settled down up there now if there nothing on the scan Im refusing them going up in the vagina and disturbing things which at the moment are going very well

That's good, Ruth. Sounds like all you needed to do was stick to a regimen with the cream and relax about having to urinate. 

My situation really hasn't changed. Using the hormone cream for the AV & the steroid for the LS. Everything looks to have improved, but I still have the phantom signs of infection that come and go. Not sure what I can do about that. Am seeing the gyn in a couple of weeks.

Yes, it has been quiet on here lately. i was hoping no news was good news, and it looks like it is!

Hi Suki girl. You wouldnt believe what im going through. Thursday i had the scan and they found 2 polyps in the womb, so the consultant started the procedure to take them away. It was so painful, he couldnt finish it. So he said I have to go back next week snd he will put me under for 15 mins while he does it. He said for the next few days I will have a bleed. My goodness he meant it. It come in spasms but when it come its comes. I went walking today for fresh air and i think thats caused it to get quite bad.He did a lot up there. Pumped water in me and opened it up. I reminded him id got Atrophy. Do you think this has caused all the bleeding

Ruth,

Polyps can cause bleeding, but not always. But the fact that using the hormone cream seemed to stop your bleeding sort of supports the theory of the AV causing it,

Sorry you had to go through such a painful experience. Sounds somewhat barbaric. Don't know how they could have expected to access your uterus via an atrophied vaginal canal. I should think the results of that would in itself cause bleeding, unless the hormone cream has been able to improve the skin's elasticity. I think medical people can focus so much on the job at hand they can forget there is a complicated human body there.

Do you have someone to take you to and from these procedures?

Hi Beverly. The bleeding has more or less gone now after that half done hysteroscopy.Its been an awful 3 days. Im going into have the procedure done properly again on a week on Tuesday the 23rd October. But im thinking maybe i can cope without anaestic. Its only a few hours im there for but it will be quicker if I dont go under. I really must get back on the Estriol cream. The gyno said I cant go back on that until hes had a biopsy done on the 2 Polyps. I dont know why

Ruth,

Why not at least be tranquilized? It's impossible not to tense up when you are in pain. Tell that to your doctor BEFORE you go for the procedure. Surely they can give you something to relax you to the point that you don't care how much it hurts. It will wear off in a few hours if you need to drive yourself home. Or do you have someone to drive you?

I had excellent eyesight most of my life and never went for exams. When I finally had to go I found I absolutely could not sit still when someone was heading for my eyes. I told my GP I needed something and he gave me a prescription for a few anti-anxiety pills to get me through it. No reason why you can't get the same.

Good luck. Hope the polyps are nothing serious. I had one on my cervix at one time. Had it removed in the office BEFORE AV arrived!

What a good idea Beverly. Why didnt the Gyno say he would just give me a local anaestic rather than put me under. Yes. someone will be there to pick me up on the day. Im cross because I told him Id got Atrophy and he wondered why I couldnt carry on with the procedure.Ive lost all that horrible bleed and brown discharge after half the procedure on Thursday and Ive just got very slight shows of blood now which could be just the Atrophy which he has completely upset and I will have to start again after the full proedure is done to put it to rights

Ive been out today and had hardly any bleeding at all from the damned procedure now tonight its come back. The cramping is terrible and ive got such sore piles. I feel the Atrophy has gone right back to square one. Sorry im just cross with the Gyno for not taking into consideration the Atrophy

But what else could the gyno do? They have to remove the polips via the vagina, so it would damage the fragile tissues lining the vagina. They can certainly help you with the pain during the operation, but i cant see how they can limit the damage to your vagina.

Hi Suki girl.. Im going to ask them if I can have a local anaestic instead of going under then I can get home quicker. If they can remove a Polyps 4 years ago without a general anaestic im sure they can do the same thing again or just give me a local. A little more patience is needed from the Gyno as I was in so much pain with his instruments added to that I have the pain of the Atrophy

Ruth, I was suggesting something to relax you. Not sure if he can anesthetize the vagina, but maybe it can be done.

Hope it goes well. Good luck.

Hi Beverly. I spoke to one of the senior nurses from the Gyno clinic today and i told her i didnt want to be put under and could I just have a sedation. She said the whole procedure only takes about 15 mins so she will have a word with the anaesthist when i go on Thursday this week. So shall I be doing as well.i told her ive still got intermitant bleeding and she says that the tissues in the vagina that have been upset by the procedure last week. My big concern as well is , my doctor said i need to go back on the Estriol cream as soon as possible but the Gyno said no till after the biopsy of the Polyps. That could take weeks.Oh what a mess !

Ruth,

Talk to whoever did the biopsy and say you need the results ASAP. Or better yet ask you doctor to do it if you are reliant on the hormone to stop the bleeding. It's worth a try.

If it can't be rushed, use a pad like the old days for bleeding. I'm sure it will not be dangerous. If it's uncomfortable maybe try motrin or something like that. AGAIN, run it by your doctor (or nurse). I am neither.

Hope the procedure is bearable and quick.

Take care.

B.

like beverly said, i dont think they can do local anaethetic on the vagina. it would have to be a spinal block.

the problem is that, if you have a tendency for polips, oestrogen can contribute to their growth.

Beverly, the Biopsy hasnt been done yet. Im having the 2 polyps out next tuesday then they do the biopsy but its already too long to go without Estriol cream so my doctor says. i know that if i started the cream quickly now most of the bleeding would go

No. Im not having epidural Suki girl. Ill have to put up with the pain

Ruth, you do not have to put up with the pain. Modern medicine has provided us with many methods of pain relief. Do ask.

Im just angry that not once did they consider that ive got bad Atrophy and they wondered why it was so painful last week when they tried to do the procedure. Thats why probably im having so much bleeding now cause theyve disturbed the tissues with their instruments and also i cant use the Estriol cream cause theyve said no at the moment which my doctor is not happy about

i know Ruth and i am sorry that you have had this setback. But i have increasingly found that i have to be proactive in my healthcare. You need to tell them what you want / need - they will not offer it.

Ruth, suki is right. You have to spell it out for them. Don't just trust they will know your body & mind and do the right thing. When I saw my latest gyn I stated very clearly she would NOT be doing an internal as it is too painful and tears the skin. That's when she told me there was such a thing as a speculum for babies. No other gyn used one before. I complained in the past, but had never said "NO".

On my recent visit to my GP he walked in the room with a girl who looked about 12 & announced she would be to type what he was saying throughout the visit. Told him, sorry, but I did not want anyone else in the room as it was my time to talk privately to my doctor once a year & felt to have someone else there was very intrusive. He was clearly shocked & tried to explain why it worked better for HIM because he didn't have to type as much. I stuck to my guns, she left & we discussed quite a few issues including LS. He may not have been satisfied, but I was. Had she stayed he & I would not have had as much of an exchange. A friend warned me this was now happening & he felt so hampered that he had to make a 2nd appointment. He gets free care & I don't, so I went in prepared to tell the doc what worked best for ME, the patient. Try it. It works!

Beverly. Im going tomorrow for the pre assessment together with the anaesthesit but I have full intentions of asking them to actually do it tomorrow. Im sick of all this messing about now. I just want it done plus i badly need to get back on the Estriol cream and get the tissues repaired again.

Good luck!

thanks Beverly. Ill message you tomorrow

Hi Beverly. I went for the pre assessment yesterday.Procedure being done on Tuesday. I have insisted on a local anaesethic cause im not staying in. I have just got to prepare my mind that I can do it without moving. Having it done at 1.15 pm. I was so out of my comfort zone when i was there yesterday, it was horrible

Ruth, was there a response to your insistence? An agreement? I don't see why it wouldn't be possible with some kind of a numbing agent like lidocaine, though I haven't heard of it being done. I'm glad you are asserting yourself re what will happen to your body.

Maybe now that I have been using hormone cream I could withstand an internal, but I sure couldn't a few years ago. Hope this procedure is as painless as possible.

Hi Beverly. Yes . I was insisting i had a local and they said that was ok. They said i would be talking to the anaethisic as i go in and the consultant whose doing it. I stated only a local please which I shall absolutely insist on. I just really hope I can keep still even with a local Beverly.

Thank you for keeping with me on this Beverly. Means a lot. Bless you

Hi Beverly. Ive had the Hysteroscopy done along with the removal of 2 Polyps and they said they cleaned the womb out of old tissues etc. They insisted on a General not a local . I, beginning to feel the after effects now. slightly painful up there and im aching and of course bleeding which Im told will go off eventually.Hello to Suki girl and others I have spoken to. Im dazed at the moment im sorry. Thank you for all your support. How is everyone?

I hope things start getting better for you now. Hopefully you can go back on the estrogen cream and start sorting out that atrophy.

Thank you Suki girl. Cant go back onto the cream until results of biopsy and yes the Atrophy needs dealing with asap. I am still bleeding from the procdure on Tuesday afternoon which I hope will peter out in the coming days. At the moment i feel very tired after the the General anaesthetic

Hi Ruth,

It's behind you now, so you must be relieved. I'm happy to hear it. If I were you I'd just nap. Get rest today. Take whatever pain pills they gave you or recommended. Don't wait for it to hurt. Better to get ahead of any discomfort.

I'm fine. Saw my gyn yesterday who answered a lot of questions. Once again she told me everything (AV & LS) is looking good as a result of using the hormone cream & steroid, but I am continuing with both.

I was told by the consultant that there would be bleeding for few days then it should peter out. The bleeding has gone down quite a lot since Tuesday. Im just wondering if part of the bleeding is due to the Atrophy which is not being treated at the moment or to the fact I had that procdure done which included scraping of the womb and removing 2 polyps

Hi Beverly. Im glad things are looking up for you. You have been through so much and your always thinking of others. Bless you.

Yes Im relieved now. Just need to get started on the Estriol cream to repair the Atrophy but got to wait for the biopsy results

Hi Suki girl. I feel quite drained 5 days into having the Hysteroscopy. The bleeding has gone right down, it went completely then came back again. The nurse said its quite normal and is also mixed in with the water they pumped into me at the time. I dont know if its that or the Atrophy, I cant tell. I shall be glad when biopsy results come in and i can start the cream again

ruth, I was thinking of you last night and wondering how you were doing. I think the nurses are right about the bleeding. Between the blood loss and the stress I'm sure you need to rest. I know I always expect to bounce back from things and get antsy, but it's best to just let your body recover on its own time. Keep your mind or hands occupied and time will pass more quickly.

Do they think the polyps were causing the bleeding you were experiencing before?

Like Beverly says, relax, treat yourself.

Thank you Beverly. I have woken up this morning angry because Im having to wait for the Biopsy and until then I cannot get started back on with the Estriol cream to repair the Atrophy which now is feeling sore when I wee and I still think is causing the small bleed I still have from the procedure. The bleeding comes and goes but is getting less and less which Ive been told will happen.Im also told by friends not to go out walking as this will delay the healing process.Im going to ring the hospital today and ask the nurse to look at my papers to see if it was the Polyps causing the bleeding.

Hi Beverly. I hope your feeling ok. Ive spoken to the Gyno nurse and she has spoke to the Biopsy Lab who said they cant rush it, it will take about 2 weeks. She said as I had it done 1 week ago yesterday, by this Friday or this weekend latest it should be ok to start the cream, as the chance of any infection being there now, is low. I hope shes right. She says the only reason that she can think of that they stopped me from starting the cream is because of the chance of any infection. I shall be very relieved when the biopsy result comes through

Ruth, better to be safe than sorry. I am still dealing with my on again, off again infection. It's been going on way too long. Have called gyn's office twice waiting for word on an alternative antibiotic cream as the one prescribed would be over $100 for a small tube (am dumping my insurance co starting Jan). The pill version is $7, so you can understand what I mean by senseless. Doc thinks (as do I) cream would be better than taking the pill which affects the whole body.

I'm about to make a real pest of myself and call again today.

Although I'm supposed to use the hormone cream daily to counteract the infection am beginning to wonder if it isn't causing it. Didn't use it last night and have no problems today.

If I were you I'd wait the week.

Ruth, best to wait for the results of the biopsy before you start using the cream.

Beverly and Suki girl.Im wondering whether to wait for Biopsy result which is certainly taking time, or to start the Estriol cream on Tuesday which will be 2 weeks since the procedure. I have no bleeding now (fingers crossed) so i gather that the chance of any infection is going now. Any advice would be appreciated. I hope you are all feeling well

best do what the drs tell you. wait until you have had the results of the biopsy.

ruth, I agree with suki, but if you want confirmation call the doctor's office and have the nurse speak to the doc about it. Were his directions to wait two weeks before resuming the cream or to wait for the biopsy results? There's a difference between the two. You've gone this far, just give it a little longer to hear what the doc says.

My cream problem was never solved. The compounding pharmacy was going to charge $70 to make up their version of metrogel so I passed. I do have the pills so if becomes unmanageable I can always take them. The cream just made so much more sense. Hopefully, come January when I change to the other insurance co. the prices will be more affordable. I know the estradiol cream won't be costing $300!

You are quite right both of you Beverly and Suki. I will wait for the Biopsy result which is any day now. The Gyno nurse did say if the bleeding has stopped and it is now the 2nd week this tuesday it wont matter ifyou do start the cream but I WILL wait.Im sorry to hear your having trouble with the cost of your cream Beverly, I hope your not suffering at all. Your a good person and you will get through this. Hope your feeling ok Suki ?

I am getting so annoyed now. Just been told that it could be 6 weeks before I get the biopsy results through. I need to treat the Atrophy so ive asked my doctor to ring me after surgery tonight to give me permission to start the Estriol cream as its 2 weeks now since I had it done.

Try to put the biopsy out of your mind. At least the procedure is over and the polyps are gone. Are you feeling OK? Has the bleeding stopped? More than likely the doc will give you the ok to resume the estriol and you'll get back to letting the hormone cream doing its job.

I've no idea why the results are taking longer than what you had been told initially. Is this typical of medical care there? Did they give a reason why it will take longer....backed up maybe?

Ruth, i think the reason they wanted you to stop the estriol cream and wist for the biopsy is that estrogen can encourage the growth of uterine polyps. They should have told you that.

If thats the case Suki, whats the point of me going back on the cream at all ?

That is why you have to wait for the biopsy to see what type of polyps they are, then take advise on use of estriol cream. I'm afraid you have to be patient. In the mean time i recommend using coconut oil and vit e oil to sooth.

What do you think of my last message that they are saying ive got to go back to the hospital just for the results even if everything is ok. I have asked them to send me a letter instead. If the biopsy is normal theres no reason why i cant just have a letter instead of spending taxi fayre to go back again

Didn't see any message. Just go to the hospital like they asked. Then you can have a proper conversation with them and ask any questions you may have as a result of what they tell you. You can't do that if you just get a letter.

I didn't see a previous message about that.

I agree with suki. I know spending money on taxis isn't pleasant but chances of getting info in person is greater than in a form letter which is probably what they would send. What's most important is that YOU understand what is going on. If you are there you can ask questions.

I had to go back two times for three different breast tests. At least they're paying attention.

Not sure if medical care is becoming more and more like running a gauntlet, if it just seems that way or if it becomes that way with age.

Are you feeling better?

Yes thanks Beverly. The whole process took a lot out of me. I had built myself up into such a state.I had no information given to me after the procedure, thats why im annoyed. What exactly they did and where did the blood come from.Yes im going back on Tuesday for the results and find out exactly what they did. I shall be asking when I can go back on the Estriol cream. My GP said she will let me go on the cream for a month then put me on the Vagifem pessaries.She prefers them, she says gynacologists prefer Vagifem to Estriol cream.How are you anyway. How are you feeling now. I hope your ok and things are going right for you.

Hi Ruth, I'm afraid that it seems to be the case that you need to be proactive with your medical care - they usually don't tell you anything, you gave to ask. And yet studies show that any medical procedure is less stressful for some one the more informed they are. I always write down everything i want to ask, so that I don't forget anything, which it is easy to do at the time when you may be a bit flustered. I wonder why gynachologists prefer vagifem to estriol cream when estriol is the safer estrogen. Anyway, you should ask for what you prefer.

Hi suki,

My gyn recently brought up a suppository option which I took to mean vagifem. She was discussing the possibility that I may be reacting to the estradiol versabase cream . Maybe the vagifem has more years of study behind it and considered safer. In any case I thought a tablet with an applicator may cause problems so chose to stay with the cream for now. Have been getting lax re use as I was experimenting with less frequent applications to see if the cream was in fact causing a negative reaction. Wasn't able to come to any conclusion and am now off my schedule. Going back to writing it on my calendar.

Maybe none of this will ever get resolved. As the AV is better and the LS is pretty much under control I should just be happy with things as they are. The only real discomfort (which was my original problem) is the BV that comes and goes. Some posters claim it is an LS itch, but I have it no where other than internally and it is very elusive.

Beverly, remind me what country you are in. Didnt you have to get your estriol cream compounded?

suki,

In US. I am getting estradiol cream compounded as it would cost hundreds per tube at the pharmacy.

Am changing my insurance co which will hopefully make it more affordable.

Never did ask my gyn about the possibility of estriol as I seem to be in serious need of whatever estrogen I can get. She says the lack of it is what brought on the LS (already knew I had AV, but was trying to avoid hormones due to my sister's cancer).

ruth,

I'm doing pretty well. Finding out I had problems I wasn't even aware of was a bit shocking, but am working at getting things under control. Have a new knowledgeable gyn who is easy to talk with...when I can talk with her. Next appt in 6 months; will be away till then anyway.

Am using hormone cream for the AV and steroid ointment for the LS. Will have both for the rest of my life so it's a matter of getting them under control. Just need to (hopefully) get rid of the ever elusive BV.

Now you need to master not working yourself into a* state*. Stress just makes all things worse. When you go to appts bring a notebook with questions and write down the answers. Then you can do research on the internet at home and also compare to what women here report if you want to. You just can't let anxiety get the best of you. Maybe you can find some relaxation or meditation videos on youtube. Can't hurt!

Take care.

Im at the point this morning of telling my Gynos secretary to send me a letter with all details and biopsy results because its going to cost me £40 to get to hosp and back. Im on benefits and cannot afford that

Can you talk to your gyno over the phone? - explain the situation and the fact that you would like to speak to them because you have some questions.

Hi Suki. ive just been told i got to go and see Gyno tomorrow. get results then

Great. Make sure you write down anything you want to as. I am always going into drs offices with a list in my hand. Find out exactly what they did to you, what they found and the implications for the future.

Hi Beverly and Suki and anyone else.Sorry not been in touch. Lot going on. Will update you in a few days. Hope you are all ok

Hi everyone. Lot going on at moment medically. I will update you later this week. Sorry about the silence.Take care

Hello to Beverly and Suki and any others I have chatted to. A very Happy Christmas to you all. I hope you are all feeling ok especially you Beverly who I know has been suffering with certain conditions. I am, I think , going to have a Hysterectomy in the new year which will solve all my problems. Still being discussed at the moment. Thank you for all your advice Suki

I will come back to you just after christmas. Sorry about the long silence.

Love to all

Hi Ruth, I've been following your posts and hope you are feeling a bit better. Just bear in mind, unless for a specific reason, hysterectomy is not the answer to a lot of problems.

You are more likely to suffer from a prolapse, without the uterus holding everything up strongly. Your vaginal atrophy will not change, you will need estriol for the rest of your life in any case to keep things plumped up and healthy.

If you are prone to polyps you can still get them in other areas such as the bowel.

I have had all of these, and had a hysterectomy due to cervical erosions that kept coming back. If I had known back then what I know now, I wouldn't have had it.

We are all different and it may be the best thing for you, just research the pro's and cons yourself and make sure you know exactly what's involved.

Hi Laura

Very good advise for Ruth and all ladies! What meds are you using and how often?

YES! I wish all a very nice CHRISTMAS around the world!

MANY BLESSINGS,

WENDY

My meds list goes on for ever Wendy

Happy Xmas to you as well.!

Sorry Laura

I meant for the VA do you use ESTRIOL or ESTRADIOL?

WENDY

I was using estriol, but had to put it on hold as diagnosed with LP so using steroid cream and moisturiser instead for the time being.

Laura

May I ask what LP is?

Wendy

It's Lichen planus, Wendy, an inflammatory condition of the vulva, very painful. Needs ultra potent steroid cream to get it under control and maintain the tissues so they don't break down. Its a life long treatment.

Oh my goodness Laura

what causes LP. IS THIS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WOMEN GET OLDER.? I have heard of LS and now LP??? Just want to know what causes these.....

wendy

Its not known what causes LP, Wendy, but I think atrophy can have a lot to do with it, and lack of oestrogen, I'd never heard of it until this year, but it's quite rare so I wouldn't worry about it.

That is why it is important to start on estrogen at the first signs of atrophy before it gets too bad and you get something like LS or LP.

Yes I know, I'm on a vaginal atrophy fb site. I wish things like this were more widely publicised, I only found out I had VA when I went for a cystoscopy, had no symptoms at all at that point.

Ah, well, if you have no symptoms then how can you tell? The first sign for me was uncomfortable sex - i was straight to the GP to get vaginal estrogen. My GP had warned me not to leave it too late because the consequences could be irriversible. But if you aren't having sex, how would you know?

I had a rectocele repair, and the pain started, and went on and on, I knew it could be a slow recovery, and when it didn't stop, I was diagnosed with pudendal neuralgia, so had spinal nerve blocks, didn't help. This went on for two years, until the soreness started, and everything was sticking together, I went privately to see a consultant dermatologist, and he gave me clobetasol and told me to use twice a day, and referred me to vulval clinic. The sores healed using the clob, and the white patches and fusing were visible. The DR's at the vulval clinic said they thought it had started as LS and progressed to LP, didn't know that could happen.

Thats how I found out, although I had looked it up. I still have PN and VA, but LP is under control just now, on Norisome and Aveeno.. I hope yours isn't too bad.

Laura, what is your age? I am 70 and was diagnosed with LS this year although I knew for several years I had AV (which I did not use hormone for as it wasn't bothersome). I had to look up rectocele as I'd heard of hernias, but not that type. Have doctors said what causes it or is it just a random thing? I'm certainly sorry to hear you are going through this.

One of the LS theories is that it's caused by trauma. By that I think it can be something like your surgery, but I do think it's just a guess. My doctor said mine was specifically caused by low estrogen. But really, who knows.

I have had very good results with estradiol for the AV and a mild steroid for the LS. Am considering switching to estriol, but am not sure if a milder estrogen is the way to go right now. My gyn is willing to prescribe it if I choose to change. There are also insurance complications as I am in the US.

Hope things calm down for you soon.

I am 72 Beverly, I think maybe if you're genetically predisposed to maybe get LP or LS, atrophy may then make it an active disease. If atrophy caused it, more than 50% of post menopausal women would suffer from it. That's estimated to be the number of ladies with atrophy, though I would suspect it's more, as the population ages. Hundreds of years ago, we didn't live past our 50's, so most likely not as many women suffered lack of oestrogen for so many years and became atrophied.

Now the price we pay for our extra years is dryness and pain, if we don't give our bodies the hormones it needs.

I originally tried oestrogel, a pump dispenser, you rub in your thighs or upper arms a few times a week, but it made me swell up so much that I stopped it after a few months. I wish now I had requested something else, but like you was symptom free so didn't bother.

Going back, would it have prevented me getting LS/LP? I don't know.

HI Beverley, replying here as i cant find my last message to you. Thanks for getting back to me, ill have a search for info on VA.

BTW Vagifem is just the brand name of estriodol.

ill ask my gp for the weaker oestrogen estriol.

Thanks again x

Hi Tezes, there is a facebook site called Vaginal Atrophy, there are a lot of members and theres a lot of info there, its a nice friendly site, run by a lady who has problems herself.

Oh ok Laura thanks ill have a look on fb for the group xx

Laura, which group is it ? what is it called exactly ? My search came up with several, thx

just VAGINAL ATROPHY

looks like this.

Thanks Laura ive found it and joined x

Seen you there, hope you get some help.x.

Hi Beverly. Read you message to Tezes. I have been looking for that video you sent me so we can help Terez. I have scrolled through them all but cant find it. So sorry to Terez. i will keep looking

ruth, realized I could look in the section with old PMs, found the clip and posted it.

Ok Beverly. Thats fine. Thank you for letting me know. Bless you. Hope you are ok and having good xmas

I'm fine. Hope you are too and get your issues resolved soon. Remember, second opinions are helpful in making decisions (if you can get them).

Happy & Healthy New Year too!