Very anxious about treatment

I can still see your post Alison so don't think they removed it 

It seems from the readings that people break bones without osteoporosis or osteopenia just as often as those who have these conditions and many people like me with severe osteoporosis have not broken bones. My worst tscore that I know of from over a year ago was -4.3 lower spine. 

I suspect that my two bulging discs cause more issues than the osteoporosis.

I continue to put faith in diet and exercise to help improve bones because by their very nature they do replenish.

 

You have repeated this several times Kathleen and I would love to know where you have found the evidence to support your claim. A hug from a loved one or turning over in bed, hanging the washing, or sneezing can break bones if you have op. This does not happen with “normal” bones

Nobody is saying that extremely fragile bones can't be broken by such means, but it is true that healthy bones can break. Anyone can be injured through trauma. I've read that there isn't much difference in the rate of fracture between those diagnosed with op and those with denser bones. Could be that for most of us falls prevention is just as important as any other fracture risk reduction strategy.

And there is the strength aspect that we have talked about before too,

Anhaga. I had plenty of falls a few years back but no broken bones luckily. Now I am super careful. Sneezing resulted in two bulging discs that seem to have caused a trapped nerve in the sacroiliac on the left side. X-rays confirmed arthritis and scoliosis in the back as well. I would never have predicted osteoporosis as I believed my back was good so I sometimes wish I had never had a scan that diagnosed it.

By typing a few key words we can now read up on any subject and sort through the information.

I will just continue to take care not to fall and hope I can avoid any broken bones in the future. 

I am simply saying that Kathleen frequently says that “as many people who do not have OP break bones as people who have healthy bones” This statement is misleading.  Ofcourse healthy bones can be broken. Children fall out of trees, people have car accedents, fall off ladders, but my point is, you are much more likely to break a bone if you have OP, from doing normal day to day activities. If you fall from standing, you are at a much higher risk of breaking something if you have OP, where as almost anyone can be unlucky and break something falling from a ladder. It would not be sensible for us to indulge in contact sports for example. However, healthy boned people do and occassionally, break something. If we did, we would be a pile of broken bones.!!!

I have had 3 fractures and none of them resulted from falls. I have really good central core muscles and therefore I don’t fall. My tumour on my balance nerve has had some inpact on my balance, but I still have never fallen. I stand on one leg everyday and bounce a tennis ball 100 times to try and keep good balance. But everything I have read on OP shows that you are much more likely to fracture something far more easily, if you have OP.

Kathleen and Alison, I do feel this conversation has been going a bit at cross purposes.  No one says that osteoporosis is not a risk factor for fracture, but it isn't the only risk factor, and in the big picture many or most people with osteoporosis manage to live out their lives without breaking any bones. 

Unfortunately for many of us, including yourself, if I remember correctly, the diagnosis for either OP or LBM often comes as a huge surprise only after we have broken something.

Anhaga, Kathleen, Alison, " Many or most people with OP manage to live out their lives without breaking any bones". (Anhaga). I have no idea whether this is the case or not. As Alison pointed out many people are only diagnosed with OP after having broken a bone. The issue here is not that people with diagnosed OP may indeed never have a fracture - the issue is that the RISK  of them fracturing is MUCH greater than for those without OP and  I think it's misleading to argue to the contrary.

MAYO CLINIC Osteoporosis site :

" OP causes bones to become brittle - so brittle that a fall or even mild stresses such as bending over or coughing can cause a fracture most commonly in the hip or spine".

This does NOT occur in people without OP

" Hip fractures are often caused by a (simple)  fall and can result in disability and increased risk of death with the first year after the injury.. . Spinal fractures can occur even if you haven't fallen. The bones that make up your spine (vertebrae) can weaken to the point that they may crumble which can result in back pain, lost height and a hunched posture".

This does NOT happen in people without OP.

So, what should be  the intelligent conclusion here? It seems to me that, regardless of what any of you 

(including myself sometimes) might LIKE to think, the answer is self-evident. 

J

Exactly what I was trying to say Juno. It is interesting too, that both you and I have medical backgrounds, so perhaps we see things a little more black and white

Well, I have had my second dose. I am quite achy and my ankles feel frail but I suspect some of this is due to my anxiety over the whole issue. My spine is -2.3 so quite close to osteoporosis and the meds have been prescribed because of the fracture. My greatest fear is that I will need dental treatment in the next five years. I have an appointment to see my dentist on Tuesday to see what she says. She is private so I will need to find out if she can refer me for NHS treatment if I develop complications or need an extraction. Meanwhile I have to talk to my doctor as she has prescribed Calcichew which I have been taking but  hospital report says I should not have extra calcium because of my kidney stones( just something else I knew nothing of!) I should rely on extra calcium in my diet. I am already boosting my calcium intake and Vit K. I just have to get over this emotional hump! 

I think you could be right re anxiety. It is early days for you so see how it goes. I can help with the dental issues. I consulted 2 dentists before I started my meds. One in Scotland and one in Portugal. Both have been practicing for many years and neither have seen a patient with problems due to OP meds. The one in Scotland told me I would be given antibiotics prior to a tooth extraction and I would need to continue them for a week after extraction. Both were certain the drugs did not affect teeth in any negative way and the problem would only occur after extraction. And, even then, the condition is very rare, if you pratice good dental hygine. I have not needed any extractions and hopefully will not need to confirm this. I am at more risk because I have had radiotherapy to my brain tumour. Sometimes in the past, anything I had, I would think, is this due to the meds and it would turn out to be a pulled muscle or I was tense and clenching my teeth. This is why I talked about the power of suggestion. I take calcichew and have been fine, but I donot have kidney problems. I think I should be able to stop the meds soon as my score has improved greatly.  I am 63 in December and I have taken the meds for almost 3 year. I did meet someone who has taken them for 9 years and had no ill effects although every professional I have consulted, have told me 5 years is sufficent. I hope everything goes well for you Alison

That is so encouraging Alison! Thank you so much. I will ask the doctor about calcichew as my kidney stones are very small. She may wish me to continue or just improve my calcium intake with diet. Thanks again! 

People on calcium should also make sure they are getting extra magnesium as otherwise the balance between these minerals can be upset.  My particular supplement includes magnesium, but if you've been taking calcium without magnesium for a while it would be good to take an occasional dose of magnesium separate from the calcium (calcium can be a bit bossy and interfere with proper absorption of magnesium, a result of too much calcium in relation to magnesium.  Magnesium is, along with K2 and a few other micronutrients, like boron, essential in making sure the calcium actually gets into the bones.  I like to have an occasional bath with Epsom salts, just in case the magnesium in my supplement isn't enough.  Magnesium is absorbed through the skin in this case.  

Anhaga, I recently read that it had been found that people suffering broken bones were often short of magnesium so I try to remember to take some in the middle of the day away from everything else.

Also back to the list of reasons why people break bones I guess too!

 

Is there a reason you take the magnesium 'away from everything else'? I started yesterday and I see it is two a day. 

Sorry, I had missed Anhaga's post! 

I'm not absolutely sure of this, but the way I understand it is that calcium and magnesium maintain a certain balance.  This balance is skewed if more calcium is taken in supplements without also additional magnesium.  In that case if you start to take magnesium at the same time, the extra calcium you already have prevents the magnesium from being efficiently absorbed.  So best to take the additional magnesium at a separate time.  Calcium is quite bad for interfering with various other substances.  If you're on prednisone, for example, they interfere with each other.  Calcium will also prevent iron from being absorbed if you take them together.  Makes you wonder why so many of us take, or used to take, multivitamins, we probably don't get optimum dosage of any of the contents!  Although my calcium supplement claims to contain the right amount of magnesium I no longer really trust that and so I do have an occasional magnesium capsule, or the nice relaxing soak with Epsom salts.  But there's a lot of magnesium in our food, this being to plants what iron is to animals.  We really can only do our best, with whatever reliable information we can find.  And with regard to optimum nutrition, this seems to be a moving target, always more to learn!   

Apart from helping with osteoporosis magnesium is very helpful with leg cramps and busy legs.

My older son mentioned taking magnesium on its own and I know people who take magnesium for a range of things.

I don’t tend to take calcium supplements but I do take vitamin D3 and vitamin K2. 

If I were to take calcium I would alternate with magnesium but my calcium levels are pretty good as shown in my blood tests. 

I don’t think you need magnesium every single day either.

Having fruit and vegetables every day is more important.

 

What I don't understand is that its accepted as a fact that 1 in 2 post menopausal women and 1 in 4 men have Osteoporosis so why aren't all post menopausal women given a dexa scan rather than wait until after a fracture. Its bound to be down to NHS funding, but I would have opted to pay for a private dexa scan if I was made aware of the 50% chance of having OP.

(I do appreciate that unfirtunately not everyone can afford circa £150 for this scan)