Vitamin supplements

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Can you take too many vit supplements?  Recommended for PMR sufferers are - vit D, vit C, vit K2, magnesium, omega3, and goodness knows how many more!  

Would appreciate comments.  I hate swallowing unnecesary pills.

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  • Posted

    You CAN take too many vit supplements - while you are on pred you NEED vit D and calcium. The others may be recommended by the vitamin proponents but you don't NEED them unless you have other problems. I don't take any, never have, unless I need them. I use magnesium IF I have any signs of cramps - but not on a daily basis.

    Vit C - if you have a good diet with plenty of fruit and veg (including potatoes) you probably don't need any more. There is a great deal of evidence that shows that artificial vit C is not as beneficial as vit C obtained from dietary sources. 

    Vit K2 - that's Anhaga's field and I'm not going to disagree with her. But sourcing fresh sauerkraut and using it in salad on a regular basis and also sourcing your meat and dairy products from grass-fed herds and buying bio-eggs is probably all  you need - fermented foods are a valuable source of K2 and products from grass-fed animals has higher K2 levels. Gouda, Edam and Brie cheeses are also particularly high in K2 - fresh though, not the pre-packed to keep for ever sort.

    Omega3:  The healthharvard educational blog says:

    "How food, and its component molecules, affect the body is largely a mystery. That makes the use of supplements for anything other than treating a deficiency questionable.

    Despite this one study, you should still consider eating fish and other seafood as a healthy strategy. If we could absolutely, positively say that the benefits of eating seafood comes entirely from omega-3 fats, then downing fish oil pills would be an alternative to eating fish. But it’s more than likely that you need the entire orchestra of fish fats, vitamins, minerals, and supporting molecules, rather than the lone notes of EPA and DHA.

    The same holds true of other foods. Taking even a handful of supplements is no substitute for wealth of nutrients you get from eating fruits, vegetables, and whole grains. 

    What should you do if you currently take fish oil? If your doctor prescribed them—they are an approved and effective treatment for people with high blood triglyceride levels—follow his or her instructions until you can have a conversation about fish oil.

    If you are taking them on your own because you believe they are good for you, it’s time to rethink that strategy. If you don’t eat fish or other seafood, you can get omega-3s from ground flaxseed or flaxseed oil, chia seeds, walnuts, canola oil, and soy oil. One to two servings per day can help you avoid a deficiency of omega-3s."

    The vast majority of supplements taken by the general population are filling a hole - in someone's else's bank balance. It has become BIG business and - like all big business, they want to sell their products. 

    The healthharvard blog also says

    "Following food author Michael Pollan’s simple advice about choosing a diet may be the best way forward: “Eat food. Not too much. Mainly plants.”

    Choose good quality and the right foods - instead of spending money on the supplements and popping pills - spend it on fresh and organic foods as they are far more likely to be grass fed. 

    • Posted

      Many thanks, Eileen.  All the information I was after.

      I do eat fish three times a week, The cheeses you mentioned are the only ones in my fridge.  Not allowed to eat leafy greens at the moment, but Sauerkraut is a good idea.

    • Posted

      Eileen, what is your opinion on how much we need Vit D and calcium as we reduce pred? I can understand that pred interfiers with calcium absorption at high dose, but as we taper to 7mg and below, should we still tke the same quantity of Vit D and calcium? I am specifically concern about the calcium, since exess can go to a wrong places ( like walls of the artheries ).

      BTW I agree 100% with your comments on suplements... Best to do blood test to see if any of the suplements are actually needed.

    • Posted

      Myself, I wouldn't stop the vit D - not without having regular checks at least but I wouldn't stop my calcium supplements either as I don't get an awful lot via dairy etc in my diet. I think diet has a lot to do with it - if you have a high calcium diet then maybe there is less need.

      But there is claimed to be evidence that there is still an effect even at lower doses of pred, as low as 3mg. Now personally I'd not take that as 100% truth since about 40% of patients on pred develop osteoporosis and over 30% of the general US population has reduced bone density anyway. The figure rises to 50% amongst the Chinese population, I assume because so many Chinese are slightly built (well, they used to be, I saw plenty of very solidly built Chinese when I was there!). People develop low bone density anyway - I don't think that it is possible to blame pred for anywhere near all the cases that develop when we are taking pred.

      I'm sure I remember reading that provided you are replete with vit D you are less likely to have problems with calcified arteries. Certainly, that was the view taken when there were the articles warning about taking calcium supplements a few years ago. The problem there was less with the supplements themselves but with who was taking them and how: 

      Young, healthy women who were already eating a diet with adequate calcium (in the US many foods are fortified with calcium although the bioavailability varies) were also buying supplements and taking them as well. They also thought that if a small amount was good - more is better. Nor did they always take vit D with the calcium - and the calcification was found in people who only took calcium at above a certain level. None was found in people who took calcium in combination with vit D3. 

       

    • Posted

      Thank you!  I have checkups every 90 days  (with blood test) and my Ca level was smack in the middle of the range.  I do eat relatively rich Ca diet and take some additional Ca +Vit D and have plenty of K2 from eating natto ( fermented soybeans), just wondering when to start tapering all the additional Ca down.. maybe the best is to rely on blood test and go from there.
  • Posted

    I think there can be an issue with magnesium if you are taking a calcium supplement which does not include magnesium.  There is then the possibility that the two minerals can go out of balance.  In that case, take magnesium separately from the calcium supplement so that it will be properly absorbed.  Usually we can get enough magnesium from our diet, provided we are cautious in the amount of calcium we are supplementing.

    I recommend Vitamin K2 supplements, which are made from the Japanese fermented soy product called natto, as for many of us it's nearly impossible to access and eat the kinds of foods which contain measureable quantities of Vitamin K2.  In Europe it may be a given that your animals are grass fed and not even "finished" on grain but here (North America) it's the opposite.  Even our organically raised animals are more likely than not to have grain as a major part of what they're fed.  And grain fed animals cannot make enough K2 to supply our needs. We particularly should look for the form called MK-7 as it is apparently more effective than MK-4.  If you can find, and stomach, natto, then that's a natural food source of Vitamin K2 MK-7.

    I know I may sound like the Queen of supplements.  In fact this is what I take: a calcium supplement designed for bone health, a liquid iron supplement (ferritin level has been vanishingly low) Vitamin K2, mixed tocopherol E, and, because these help my osteoarthritis, glucosamine and on alternate days a complete B supplement.  I'm a vegetarian but eat dairy, eggs and fish.

  • Posted

    Okay I wasn't going to say anything, but can't help myself.  I think my biggest concern with eating store-bought fruit and vegetables shipped from all over the world these days is that too many farmers are not checking to be certain that they have not depleted nutrients from the soil in which they are growing their food.  Some are conscienscious (sp?) but others are not.  It is a throw of the dice.  I used to grow my own vegetables and treat my own soil, but can't now due to where I live.  Likewise with the difference in free range, well fed chickens I used to raise and the kind of eggs you find at the supermarket - terrible, thin shelled and not good at all.  So to say you can get what is supposed to be in the foods we eat, I wouldn't count on it at all.  The rheumatologist I originally saw suggested a specific basic multi-vitamin (he researched what the balance of vitamins included in it) and I will stick with that along with D in the winter months and a blend of calcium w/magnesium.  I eat alot of wild caught salmon and venison as well.  I am going hunting next week for deer.  We'll see how that goes.

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