Waking up too early (and hello)

Hi, ann,

yes, I agree completely that the subconscious mind is a powerful thing, but I can't for the life of me understand how it works even when I'm UNconscious, i.e. sleeping. In my case I suppose I have a sort of work-related conditioned insomnia, I want to sleep well so that I can function well with my students and colleagues, and as a result I can't  sleep. But while I understand that we can all subconsciously feel tense or nervous, worried and sad, and that all those feelings can interfere with our falling asleep when we're alone with our thoughts, how they manage to wake us up is lost on me.

It's very frustrating when, after having experience with difficulties falling asleep, and actually beating that monster in my own way, I am now deviously woken up in the middle of the night instead and can't fight back.

I find it interesting how say you're too sensitive. I've been like that too often myself.  I've read somewhere that insomnia often manifests itself in people who are sensitive and who react to insults by shutting themselves in instead of fighting back. I've certainly been guilty of that too many times in my life.

In any case,you're right, thinking too much about anything, and especially insomnia, has never done anybody any good

Hello, JB,

thanks a lot for your reply. Lots of good info there. Also, always good to find a kindred spirit in this thing, ,with work stress being your trigger as well.

And I agree, stressors go away but the insomnia remains. Why oh why does it have to be so...

It's funny, but making a sort of a list of what we have to do the next day is part of my job, I'm a teacher. But it's not so much the job itself that puts the pressure on me, it's the people. I used to think my insomnia is invisible, that it doesn't show that much. I would simply drink extra coffee on the days that I had poor sleep and I would make it through the day without too much trouble. Now that I'm older, that tactic doesn't work anymore. When I sleep poorly I function poorly in social interactions and it shows. People ask if I'm OK , why I'm so gloomy etc.

Your advice is not a broken record by any means, it's basic sleep hygiene that everyone should follow.

What's interesting in my case is that I've followed the second rule by default. What I mean is I've never been able to sleep during the day, no matter how tired. It's a strange ... habit, I suppose, but it's been with me since forever. Although it helps me get better sleep during the night, it's absolutely soul-sucking on those days when my night sleep fails, such as these last few days and the whole last year, more or less. Then I would kill for an hour or two of nap during the day, but I can't do it. Strange, I know, I don't know what to think of it myself.

As for pills, I've held on to the rule myself all those years, including college. But when this cursed morning awakenings started, I've also started using pills (Valium) when I couldn't take it anymore. I get the Valium for my epilepsy, but  I'm thinking of getting real sleeping pills one of these days, if this year proves to be like the lasst one. I need to be able to function with people around me. Of course, I would only use the pills rarely and in times when I couldn't take it anymore, just like I do with Valium now.

Uh ,I've written a entire  essay here, I'm sorry. I've just had something to say for all the things listed. I'll try to be shorter in the future!

Thanks, ann,

I'm actually supposed to take Valium once a day for my epilepsy, but I refuse. That is the only drug I refuse to take, I take 2 others and I hope those will suffice.

I instead use Valium only when I need it to help me sleep, and only when I can't take the insomnia anymore.

This is wrong,though, because if I'm going to use a pill for sleep I think it should be a sleeping pill, like Ambien, not this. But I'm ashamed to tell my gp of my sleeping problems due to all the stigma that surrounds it. I have enough stigma with epilepsy.

If this thing persists, however, I will ask her. I know that pills are a double edged sword. We'll see, maybe I hit a streak of good nights and forget about that for a while.

Hey again Edgar,

I probably didn't go into enough detail in my comment earlier on sleeping pills.  I am not at all opposed to medications, even those that need to be taken daily for psychological or other health issues.  I actually took antidepressants for a time and will say they helped me some.  My main gripe with sleeping pills has always been that they are extremely ineffective, in addition to creating dependence.  I have taken them all at one point or another in my search for a cure to my insomnia; Ambien, Trazadone, Lunesta, Xanax, among others.  The story is always the same.  Any sleeping med would help me get maybe another hour of sleep for a day or two, but then I would return to the same old sleeping pattern, waking up in the middle of the night and not going back to sleep. But then when I would go off the sleeping medications after seeing they were ineffective, I would get even less sleep than I was prior to taking the meds!  On top of that, the sleep I would get when on the medications was like not sleeping at all.  I would be unconscious but seemed to slip in and out of sleep quite easily and would wake up feeling worse than when I took nothing.  

I went for several years thinking that it would get better if I could find the right pill, but that is a pipe dream.  The right pill doesn't exist for insomnia.  My sleep started to turn around rapidly after I began taking sleep hygiene seriously, mainly limiting my time in bed and getting good exercise.  I'll end my preaching session for now   

Hi, jb,

feel free to "preach" on, brother or is it sister?

you know what, I'm pretty sure my experience would be the same, unfortunately. I've been a member of another forum for 7-8 years before they shut it down and know pretty much what the situation's like. I am sadly aware of how insufficiently effective those things are, but when insomnia hits me like it has today, I'm ready to give it a go and hope I will be among the few for whom they work.

Valium helps put me to sleep at night, but when I tried it during the day it really didn't do much. That is why I want to try something else, even though my hopes aren't high.

I own a book called "Insomniac" ,written by a woman who suffers from insomnia her whole life. Much of the book is focused on how little the pharmaceutical companies are doing to really help insomniacs. It looks like after Xanax they did nothing of value, they found their golden goose...

Yes, I feel the same way that she does.  It is not like the fuel companies are actively trying to develop gasoline that powers your car while removing the necessity to fill it up again.  It is the same with big pharma and sleeping pills.  they have no vested interest in the pills actually working to more than a modest extent.  I would be in favor of them if they helped people more, but as you mentioned there are reams of posts on this and other forums where people talk about being addicted to them but getting no benefit as far as sleep goes.  I wish I was one of those lucky few also, but alas it is not to be . 

No, actually, I'm from Croatia. We are close to Italy and Germany, equally beautiful, but far less known.

When I say Ambien, I mean its European version. In my country it's called Sanval. Same active substance.

Sorry to hear about your son, though It's good to hear he's been episode free for 10 years, that's quite an achievement. I'm pretty sure mine was brought on by my sleep, as is often the case. Is the cause of his epilepsy known?

I also have MS , to fulfill the old saying that trouble comes in threes.

I count insomnia as a condition for itself, regardless of the fact that it's supposed to only be a symptom. When it's chronic, it's a condition.

You say your daughter also sleeps poorly, perhaps it's genetic?

I don't have children myself, I don't know how I would fare if I had kids on top of all this. I guess I would be on some one pill or another full time. Hats off for you.