Why is there a universe?

Hi Light. I love it. That is really original. You buck mankind's trend to unsatiable curiosity. I really am tickled pink by your reply. But you do not convert me. I am just too usual. I want to know. Just like a little child. "Mummy, why is the sky blue, why can't it be pink? Why do you cook potatoes? Why  Daddy do you shave? Why, why, why, and I am still asking why? "

Enjoy your mystery, Light. Perhaps the answer is even more mysterious. Let us see how this discussion runs.

Thanks Peter. Unwrapping that statement into the underlying propositions as I understand ithem:

1. It is not possible to prove how the universe came into being let alone why.

2. The most we can do is to believe in how it came into being.

I stick to the Biblical explanation although I was brought up in a Calvinist Baptist church and the Calvinist state that God and science can co-exist as one.  You may find some answers on John Calvins wikipedia site.

Thanks Peter. I agree. If there is a tussle between the Bible and Science I go with the Bible. In the beginning only God was there. Only he knows how things happened. The rest follows that model.

So when you read the Book of Genesis it is clear that the writers could not have the knowledge we have today and they made what they could out of their imaginations. We can find similar disparities in the Koran. Yet we know that mankind has been on this planet for at least 100,000 years which rather puts all of that into perspective.

In this case I do not think you have made a valid point. You have to deal first with your assumption that there is no Creator of the universe who told the writer of the Book of Geneis how he created the universe and, closer to home, the world. What you have proposed is a belief system which very possibly you hold to be a self evident 'truth'.

There is no truth in a myth.

This is a similar problem of validity. Unless we all agree to your proposition being axiomatic, you need first to establish your point. George

The defibition of myth is very clear; I do not need to establish that.

If you say so, Jaguar. That is only effective for those holding the same view. It has no persuasive power and my view is unchanged. 

a) A myth is a view of history which is of long standing but at significant variance with known historical events, or (inclusive)

b) a myth is a view on history which is of long standing and for which there is no evidence for or against.

Under a) above a myth is an untrue or fantastical view. Under b) a myth is a view that may or may not be true.To assert it is true is a matter of belief. To assrt that it is untrue is also a matter of belief. The first few verses of  the Bible lie under this head. I am entitled to claim this myth as true to the facts were we able to know them You are entitled to claim these same verses to be untrue. We neither can prove our point.

I see they have cut my post or edited it and omitted the link to Calvin's wikipedia page I put in he ho have to try and drag from memory what I said and IM you.

Thank you Peter. That is kind. Much appreciated. George

Thanks Jaguar, but isn't Peter correct in saying it all boils down to faith. How can science establish where the potential for the let us say the Big Bang came from. How can such a theory be capable of falsification and thius proveable by science? So cosmology is a busted flush in this respect.

If then science cannot get at the how, then science cannot get at the why? Peter's faith can get at both the how and the why.

Also science is not too strong on answering why. Why is the sky blue? Because white light is scattered in the upper atmosphere giving an appearance of blue when viewed from the surface of the earth.

OK. why should it be blue and not some other colour?  Drive such questions as far as you like there is ultimately at point when science has no further answer.

There was a TV series on Yesterday all about the big bang theory and in closing the last episode the scientists were actually stumped.  Ok they came up with maybe's and botomless propersistions but they could not answer the big question asked by all.

I agree with Light....enjoy the mystery.

Many years ago a very young man said to me as I was dealing with "stuff" that was getting to me:

Life is a Mystery to be Lived, not a Problem to be Solved....

He said this to me over 45 yrs ago.....I've never forgotten it....

Not into Blind Faith anymore, here...... J

Yes, Joy. I remember that quote. It must come from the same source.

If we're constantly picking away there trying to figure out all the whys and the wherefores, we miss the moment in which those things occur.

Take love, for example. Why do we love?

Who cares why we love! Just love and enjoy! Too much wondering why takes all the love away.

There's another one about D H Lawrence. He was walking in the woods with a little boy and the boy asked him: "Why are the trees green?"

Everyone knows the leaves of the trees are green because they contain chlorophyll and chlorophyll is green. But the reductum ad absurdum is like George's Why is the sky blue?

So when the boy asked Lawrence, Why are the trees green? Lawrence answered simply: Because they're green.

I guess Lawrence understood that many of the great mysteries of life are best kept as mysteries.

All that remains after that is for the questioning mind to stop questioning do nothing but wonder at the marvel of it all.

 

That's just his opinion, which he and everyone else is entitled to. What we do know is that the universe is billions of years old and is still growing. Perhaps many people who want to know more should take an opportunity to gaze at the night sky through one of the newer telescopes. Science is constantly breaching new horizons. There is still much to discover and to learn but as the landing (bumpy) on that asteroid shows science is moving forward.

It is poor comment to regard cosmology as 'a busted flush' in any respect. Just because we have yet to learn what happened before big bang does not negate what we do know. For example, we have yet to learn precisely how the human brain works but we already know so much that is both fascinating and helping the doctors to perform minor miracles for those with certain medical problems. Then take CTscans; when we can see our own bodies in slices so fine that the whole of our insides can be examined in detail we understand the marvellous leaps forward in medical science over, say, the last 50 years.

Blind faith is rather foolish. Faith in the Creator of the Universe is not blind. George

Good points Light and there are times I wonder and do not question. Yet there are other times when I learn some detail and am absolutely amazed that such a thing should be. Take DNA for instance. Each DNA molecule contains all the information needed to build a cabbage, a lion, a woman..Each cell in a creature's body contains a copy of the DNA. It is very wonderful. Perhaps we just stop and wonder at different points and are not really so very different at all - just human. George

Good points, Jaguar. these days science covers two distinctly different types of knowledge. There is the kind where theories are established and a proof proposed. To be valid that proof must be both repeatable and capable of being falsified. The other type is by observation and deduction.The observations and deductions can be repeated but cannot be falsified. Strictly, only the first type is science.

You have some odd ideas that fly in the face of reason. Perhaps you can pojnt us to how and where there are just two 'distinctly different types of knowledge'.

I am sorry I was not clear. You were talking of science. I was replying and meant science is split into two types I mention above.

George you are simply boxing yourself into a corner. Your OP promises a philosophical discussion and then deteriorates into unacceptable and insupportable comment. Time for you to look in your mirror.

Thank you Jaguar. I am always eager to untangle my views and to see myself and others more clearly. I have not grasped your point of an hour ago. I should be grateful if you would enlarge on that - hold up a true mirror for me to look into. George