5HtP to help citalopram withdrawal.

That's what I thought. I'm up and down, did read the acute stage of withdrawal can be 1-4 weeks, had couple crying meltdown days, but was expecting that to start with. The OCD still not great but think will take while as was on them for 6 months and they did lot of damage. Really glad I came off them, sleep not great last couple nights but been stifling hot here. Son came down and felt normal for a day long time since felt like that. Had awful sinus on them that improved a lot.Let us know how you do making the final jump hope you continue to improve!

How is your sleep, mine not been good last few days but think maybe could be very hot weather here. Find I'm getting quite angry at things and snappy especially fact zopiclone has ruined my life. I's very easy to get addicted to it any withdrawal can take years if you've been on it a while. At least not getting cravings fir citalopram like i did with zopiclone. Least 1st week done!

i have never slept well since all this has been going on really, especially not last few days im in the uk, ive been having anger outburts i find too but thats about it xx

Feel bit more hopeful found blog/ website of psychologist in US who'se been through withdrawal, she said intrusive thoughts very common symptom of benzo withdrawal which zopiclone basically is. Said anti depressants will just make it worse and advised against any supplements said if didnt have before will eventually go. Just feel angry that if I'd never taken citalopram or zopiclone would have a normal life not going through all this. Hope u sleep least it's cooler today!!!

Slept bit better last night think it was the really hot weather making it worse. Think will avoid any supplements fir moment brain needs to recover from the drugs i think. Have you dropped meds any more?

Nope, still at 5mg.

Going to try supplement called inositol just for week meant help OCD doesnt seem have side effects that others have. Have read SSRI's only work for half of people, and can have paradoxical effect, just wish GP's would warn you instead of touting them as the cure all that they clearly aren't for everyone. Thinking back although I wasnt great , compared to how I felt on them was actually quite well in comparison so glad i came off them even though withdrawal tough at moment. Just wish come off lit sooner.

Meant to say compared to how I was on them was a lot better before I started them. Think they seem good for depression but think can make anxiety a lot worse, they don'T warn you about that one. Not eating a lot so hopefully might loose some weightt.

I think they work for some people and the difference is probably to do with the underlying cause of their condition e.g. is it serotonin or dopamine or norepinephrine or a combination or something else?

Unfortunately it's very difficult to test the levels of all these things, hence all the trial and error.

Inositol is a funny one, I've seen some claims that it can help with various conditions but be warned the effects reportedly take several weeks and the doses need to be quite high e.g. 12g and higher per day - you'd want to build up slowly otherwise there's a good chance of some, erm, 'inconvenient' side effects.

If you're looking at supplements the other one I'd research is N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) as there are some promising studies using it for OCD-related issues.

Like I don't want to be here to be honest. Withdrawal pretty brutal been in tears a lot. Have read acute stage lasts 1-4 weeks can't see I'm ever going to be back to how I was before stopping zopiclone. Hope things fare better with you anywaya x

It is going to pass, it is temporary, every day is a step closer.

Thanks Charlie, in hindsight instead of listening to everyone telling me to stay on them longer should gone with my gut feeling come off them liot sooner. Done more research and realised can make things worse for some and don't work for quite a few people. Probably didnt help as did take a zopiclone Sunday night in desperation to try calm things. Can see why people struggle coming off citalopram. How are you?

Last couple of days have been an improvement but it's a fickle thing so not counting chickens yet!

Yes, I wish after say, 3 months, I'd have tried something else - I don't expect a 'cure' in that time frame but I probably should have seen an improvement of some kind.

This is now the 3rd SSRI I've tried so I think a new angle is needed, I don't think serotonergic meds are a good fit for me.

Found they only work in 40-60% of people and can actually cause ocd. Think can work well for depression but if it's anxiety think can make it worse. Seem to only work well at higher doses that i couldn't tolerate think 10mg was just too low . Very hard when everyone advising you to stay longer on them, made things lot worse in my case Getting quite scary dreams now. If you can find the right therapist think they are more effective to be honest. Least I know to avoid them in future, hope you improve whatever you do.

How are you doing have you stopped them yet? One thing I will say is with the zopiclone was definitely addicted to it and had awful cravings when I stopped it's nasty drug, don'T think anti depressants are so addictive so haven't felt thatat all.

i took my last tablet on monday i believe, ive been fine so far, not gone downhill properly in a good 8 weeks or more, since mid may, since ive been weaning ive felt better and better, still not 100% back to who i was before mentally but i dont expect to ever be after this experience, ive only had one day where ive cried and felt really bad, and it was only a morning really, since then ive been fine, praying this is it for me now, still have to taper the quetiapine but im going to leave it for 2 weeks then start going down by 12.5mg from 50mg, as they had me go from that to 25mg and i felt really poorly physically xx

That's brilliant you are doing so well. Yes def leave it few weeks before stopping the other med, as that could be helping mask any withdrawal symptoms make sure you are def OK first. Think I'm feeling very up and down as still in zopiclone withdrawal and did take the sertraline in between times. Least we are both off citalopram that's main thing. Every one's experience seems different, took few weeks for zopiclone withdrawal to hit but citalopram was straight away. Hope things continue well for you.x

well i had been weaning for 4 weeks, 20mg drop each time every 2 weeks, to my phsyciatric nurse said if withdrawals were going to happen they would have shown in some shape or form already! i dont feel amazing yet dont get me wrong, but i do feel well on my way, praying you get better too! mine came in monthly waves, so im hoping that now im off that monthly breakdown wont happen and then ill get my confidence back prooerly to go back to work when were able too 😃

Think it's ironic you dropped fairly quickly with quite large drops and are doing OK, and I weaned very small amounts over longer time and feel like I'm on a roller coaster, just goes to show going slowly doesnt always lower withdrawal symptoms and everyone reacts differently. So glad it's worked out so well for you anyway, and hope withdrawing from the other is just as stress free as well. x

Did you find it affected your sleep when you dropped doses? Stopped it about 10 days ago and sleep not been good since then. Been taking valerian some nights but dont want take it every night. Hoping will improve eventually. Do wonder if weaning off gradually actually made any difference at the moment!

Definitely.

Both drops have gone through exactly the same stages:

• Days 1-3 - irritability
• Days 3-21 - low mood and bad sleep (e.g. waking at 3AM)
• Days 7-10 - elevated mood, increased motivation (this is an odd 'oasis' in the desert of doom!)
• Days 10-21 - increased rumination, anxiety (morning terrible) and depression
• Day 21 onwards - improved sleep and mood

These have happened with a 2.5mg drop both times - not everyone will have the same pattern/timeline but hopefully this will give you/others hope that it does end. (I suspect a lot of people mistake withdrawal symptoms for relapse)

yeah me too, i woke up this morning very anxious and panicky becuase of a bad dream i had about my mental health (always seems to revolve around being sectioned etc) it always has for some reason, but if i remember rightly, i had the same when i dropped from 30mg to 20mg so could just be a little withdrawal symptom as i remember anxiety increasing abit when i dropped before, so will just see how it goes! x

Thanks so much for that certainly ties in literally only slept for about 1 hour last night, had the same about 3 days after stopping them. Sleep was OK on them but think maybe anti histamine helped. Def had increased anxiety crying days but las couple days not quite so bad. Does help knowing you had similar pattern. Hopefully in another week or so will improve. When i sleep had quite stressful dreams as well. Hope you are doing OK

Better this week than last week, probably the dose settling but also wondering if the NAC has helped - did you look into it?

Glad you are doing OK? Haven't tried it no bit wary of trying anything else tried couple things in past and racked up symptoms. Do sometimes take valerian to help with sleep as don't seem have any adverse symptoms from that.

Slept better thank goodness seem to have had more phsyical symptoms as well in withdrawal, sleep problons, lot headaches, feel like got flu at times. Looking back other posts other people had problems with citalopram don't think people realise what powerful drugs they are. I do think reading other posts most people only seem start improving once they take 20mg that i couldn't tolerate,

you can take valerian (kalms / nytol) every day if you want too, its herbal and will do you no harm at all xx

Thanks just don't want to get dependent on it. Think it's as Charlie said just part of stopping the meds, been bit better last few days, seems acute withdrawal can last up to 5 weeks or so, hopefully will improve. How are you the other med you're taking sounds pretty strong so take it slowly coming off. Probaly helped you coming off the citalopram which is good.

no, none of the meds im on have influenced it, i just luckily havent had it that bad, all ive had is increased morning anxiety, nightmares, sweats snd maybr abit of tiredness... nothing major that ive noticed too much, you cant really be reliant on herbal tablets and even if you are surley its better than zopiclone and citalopram etc, you cant get withdrawals, have you tried lavender oil on your pillow? i brought a spray on amazon and its really good i dont use it often but when i do it helps xx

As the other med has a calming effect think you would found withdrawal lot worse without it as sure it's lessened things. Good you are stilL coping OK anyway. Sleep still pretty rubbish but hoping Charlue right and will lessen by 3 weeks. The suicidal feeling gone off, and havent't had any crying, meltdown days for a while so something happening. Def wouldn't touch ant depressants again. Read it's one of hardest ones to come off because got long half life compared to some

Actually, the thinking is the longer the half life the easier it is to come off as the drug 'automatically' tapers in your body - this is why sometimes the 'prozac bridge' is used to wean people off the short half life meds.

Prozac/fluoxetine has the longest half life of any of the SSRIs - around 4 to 6 days (depending on metabolism and how long you've been on it) whereas Citalopram is around 36 hours. Some of the others are much shorter e.g. Paroxetine is around 24 hours.

I stand corrected, just was reading about them and it named about 3 anti depressants that were hard to come off and citalopram was one, does seem to take some several goes come off it.. I know with zopiclone as got very short half life, they advised switiching to diazapam but my GP refused. Just wish sleep would improve, even though not great better than when I was one it, just felt hopeless all the time. Are you still on 5 mg ?

Citalopram is hard to get off for a lot of people, although it's not the shortest half life the levels still bounce around a lot making things unstable. Prozac is pretty much the only one that has a longer half life and it's the only one that's used as a 'bridge'.

By the way, I jumped off 5mg 4 days ago.

Have you stopped completely how are you doing? Hopefully as you haven't zopuclone withdrawal to contend with you'll do OK?Emma seems be doing well. Got awful hay fever at moment probably not helping. Was expecting anxiety get racked up bit at first due to withdrawal. Least now I'mm off hopefully eventually OCD symptoms ease. Sleep problems bit of bummer just have take nytol if gets too bad just relieved I'm off them.

Meant to say Emily.

Yep, last dose was Friday.

Felt fine (better in fact) until yesterday, then last night the brain zaps started, plus flu symptoms - lay in bed with full on teeth chattering shivers for 3 hours last night but ibuprofen helped.

I could be wrong but I think the NAC is helping, don't think it's doing any harm anyway!

Might look into the NAC does it help with anxiety did you get it on line. Just mental symptoms really with me plus the sleeping. As OCD is side effect of the SSRI's just hoping will eventually ease as didn't have it before taking them. Certainly don't feel any worse than when I was on them that's for sure!

Like everything, it helps some people. Some report it helping in particular with obsessive thoughts/ruminations some report it helping with anxiety.

Yep, it's easy to buy online or OTC. I've got 600mg capsules and take them twice a day on an empty stomach. I got a headache the first day but no other side effects since.

I do know that it's used in various clinical settings including psychiatry.

It's nothing to do with serotonin (unlike 5HTP and tryptophan) it's actually involved in the production of glutathione which is a major antioxidant and is also involved in regulating glutamate.

Just ordered some from Holland & Barrett, will give them a try. How long have you been taking them. Sounds more prominsing than the 5 HTP, think it's the glutumate out of kilter from zopiclone withdrawal so fingers crossed.

About 2 weeks now I think, very hard to know if it makes any difference to me as I've been dropping the Citalopram at the same time - it'll be interesting over the next couple of weeks to see if the usual withdrawal effects kick in as hard as before.

Sounds like it's helping if you've not been too bad up to now. As it affects the glutumate which I think triggers the "fear response" ie the OCD symptoms hopefully should help. Seems the zopiclone had more or less switched off the calming GABBA so when I stopped all hell broke loose then the citalopram made things worse. I'll let you know if it helps. I certainly don't feel as desperate as I did first couple weeks so something must be happening. Good luck anyway.

Zopiclone binds to the same receptors as benzos and it increases the effects of GABA but I'm not sure about the effects following chronic use - I know people can build tolerance so maybe there's a down-regulation of the receptors and/or GABA over time.

I'd guess withdrawal is therefore going to be awful as a deregulated system is having the artificial enhancer removed causing a 'double whammy.

Hope the NAC helps, you might want to build up slowly - I've stopped at 1200mg per day but I know people often take more than that. Don't expect to feel different immediately, I'd give it a week before judging the effects, good luck 😃

Zopiclone i s a truly horrible drug and highly addictive, only ever had 3 or 4 packets a year and only took them every night for about 3 years and only about 1/4 tablet has truly ruined my life. It was being made go cold turkey caused the traumatic symptoms. Thought I'd try the 600mg see how I get on ordered some coming Thursday. I had read basically if take zop for while your own gabba forgets how to work so has to reset itself when you stop themwhich can take 2+ years. Happy Days!

Has it helped your sleep. Lack sleep getting to me only slept 2 or 3 hours last 3 or 4 nights. Valerian & melatonin doesnt help. Phenergan helps bit but makes me jumpy next day. Didn't have sleep problems coming off zop amazingly just screwed up my brain so got be the citalopram

Very hard to link specific cause and effect, my sleep isn't great but I completely expect that during withdrawal - not only is insomnia one of the most common symptoms of withdrawal it's something that's hit me hard when tapering.

It might indirectly help if it curbs the ruminations, and that would certainly make the days more bearable too.

Been off it about 13 Days just been last 3 days been awful just couple hours sleep. Maybe withdrawal kicking in. Surprisingly was OK coming off zop and was quite good while on citalopram. I go onto benzo buddies and several people tried NAC on fhere with good results so fingers crossed. Seems people who on another med as well or taking a supplement in withdrawal seem to do lot better.

how are you doing lemanna?