Advice please

It is a common misconception of The Sinclair Method that people tend to look at it and assume it is way to continue drinking when in fact most people beginning the method actually want to completely stop drinking. 

What it actually does is reset your brain back to pre-additive/compulsive drink settings.  It extinguishing cravings and so when the extinction of the cravings has been removed you can naturally make the decision to complete abstain if you wish.

I believe the lastest figures show that of those succesfully reaching total craving elimination using The Sinclair Method, over 40% make the decision to go completely abstinent as drinking no longer provides the thrill it once did, whilst the rest (me included) will drink safely occasionally, usually at social functions.  As long as I take a tablet prior to drinking on those odd occasions that I do chose to drink, I will not revert back to the previous compulsive behaviour.

In the UK, the NICE guidelines say it is a way to REDUCE someone's drinking.  That is correct, of course, but there is nothing to stop you reducing down to zero using this method.

Of course, everyone is an individual who needs to be aware of all the treatments out there, and then chose the one that they believe will work best for them.

Keep the idea of it in your back pocket for now.  If traditional methods don't work for you and you end up in the sober/relapse situation, it is most certainly is worth considering.  It might take a year for The Sinclair Method to completely extinguish cravings but during that time you may have periods of weeks when you don't drink at all, and the end result is freedom from cravings, no trying to whiteknuckle it, and no risk of relapse back to previous behaviours (as long as the tablet is taken if occasional drinking is chosen).  And even if you chose to go abstinent, you will find it much easier to socialise with those family and friends who do drink, as you will feel indifferent towards the drink.  You really will be able to take it or leave it.

As Paul Turner often says on this very forum, it is the most successful treatment for AUD in the world at present.

I hope you keep us updated with how you are progressing.  However you chose to tackle this, you are very brave and should be admired for tackling it.

Hi joann

I know I spoke to in mail but just to let you and the thread know that I will let you know I get on on Friday x

Wonderful, thank you!  Hopefully, you will feel more confident armed with all the information.

In February, I am going to launch this 'fact-finding' service as a service that C3 Europe will offer free of charge, similar to the free alcohol/TSM counselling that we already offer.

The NHS is simply too complicated, with each local health authority having different instrutions and procedure.  I know when I was first looking for help, there was no way in the world I could've negotiated all the bureaucracy!  If I can help anyone get the information they need to feel more confident and sure of their facts BEFORE they go for an appointment with a doctor, or other health professional, then I will be happy to do so.

Nicole,

In your PM the other day, you mentioned the recovery services, is this Addaction? If so, the person you see the second time around is quite often different to the first. It's almost like the first person interviews you and then hands you over to someone else to be dealt with.

The first person I saw was very good, kind, understood a lot of medical stuff, including things that weren't really related to alcohol problems. I wasn't so impressed with the second person, but good luck and I hope it goes well for you.

No I'm actually seeing the same person. Before that I saw nexus which is a bit more about counselling by I needed more the drug side of it at first for detoxing ect.I didn't need to detox but they didn't believe me,I think I'm a bit more tolerant because even when I have been drinking 3 bottles a day I can have a day or two off (cravings are awful though )

But this person is actually a doctor so I have a tiny bit of hope he can prescribe me an anti craving drug and not just tell me to white knuckle it (for years)..,

Yesterday I was supposed to start my diet and go alcohol free.Yesterday I drank 1.5 bottles and today I'm just past a bottle already

Wow what a long discussion. Like you Nicola, I was trying to detox myself on Saturday, after a binge since 7th Jan, having stayed sober for several weeks. Im finding it really hard and back to about 2 bottles of wine a day. Im not well enough to get to my doctor so it goes on. Like lorna, I'm finding the withdrawal very hard again, I've tried to sleep but the jerks( like little fits) just keep waking me up. And I've still not reached the worst stage of alc withdrawal yet re vomiting and possible hallucinating( which has also happened in the past). 

Going round in circles. Where I live I can't get Diazapan, Lorazpan, anything to help with the detox. Been down the addaction route 3 times and it was a complete waste of time. Re detox, if they smell alcohol  they won't see you, if your sober then they say you don't need a detox now and they just want to put you on Antabuse. 

So frustrating

I just find the whole thing embarrassing when I go to sigh post which is our local place.Ppl do stink of alcohol and the other "guests" are talking about where they get there drugs from,or how they inject because all there veins have gone,they all seem happy and chipper and I sit there with my anxiety wishing the world would swallow up

My mother was a heroine addict as well as an alcoholic and she got more support being a druggy

How does anyone get to a GP when too intoxicated

I liked my last visit to Addaction. The coffee table had a sellotaped note on it saying, 'no e-cigarettes', but no one told the guy off with an open can of white cider on the counter.

Lorna -

The critical thing to understand for both Doctors and for patients on the path to recovery is the Alcohol Deprivation Effect. There are lots of studies on this, they but they can be rather difficult to read, although one can usually get through the "Abstracts". The best and easiest to understand summation I've seen is in The Cure for Alcoholism. If you ask JoannaC3Europe for a copy, she has a PDF version available. In a nutshell, it's the tendency for abstinence from alcohol (and other drugs) to lead to relapse. The longer the period of abstinence, the worse the relapse. There are medications out there to combat this and restore choice to those with Alcohol Use Disorder, but without such treatment, the likelyhood of relapse approaches 85%. You may have seen this effect in other drinkers. They abstain for a period of time, only to return to drinking more than they ever did before. They dry up again, swear it off again, then after a while they relapse again. And again, and again. We now have the means to break that cycle. 

Keep in mind too, that Cthree europe will provide free informal alcohol counseling via Skype to any who wish it, and free formal counseling where it is required by guidelines in order for a patient to recieve medication to control or eliminate the use of alcohol. They're a great resource to turn to that will help you navigate "the system" or even if you just want to talk to somebody about your problems with alcohol. 

Lorna, may you heal soon. If I can help you in any way, please let me know. Feel free also to go to the Cthreefoundation website and click on the link for the OptionsSaveLives Forum. There are people there that have been through battles with alcohol too. You can read through their stories, post a question (or even just blow some steam off) and get some answers and support. 

We are told to not turn up to our appointments intoxicated ha

I wouldn't because I have respect for people in authority and I still have my youngest who is 16 so wouldn't want problems

Thanks...I will. Just want to get the withdrawal etc out of the way as I know it won't help with that. Also read that side effects can be nasty. Thanks again for taking the time to help and for the support x

Thank you. I will.

It's all very well this talk of help with withdrawal symptoms, But when we actually need medication to detox, no-one wants to take responsibility. The service user wants to stop drinking. But needs medication to detox safely. Your GP won't prescribe and says the referral service I.e. addaction have to prescribe. Addaction then say it's up to the GP. Meanwhile the poor service user is in need of something to help them detox, and when it is not availableforthcoming is told to carry on drinking as it's dangerous to just stop.

Personally I've never had a detox or had hallucinations, but I know plenty who have. To have reached rock bottom, admitted you need help, is The time for immediate detox, or if that's not possible, then meds to detox safely at home or tapering your alcohol intake to reduce slowly.

Years ago I used to attend a group therapy class run by the local mental health trust. It was a condition that each member had to be 'breathalised' prior to the session. I've been told that such tests can't be carried out now as it affects their human rights.

my involvement with alcohol services has shown up a complete lack of communication between GPS and whoever provides the specialist help. Neither seem to know the role they should be playing, and both are guilty of lack of knowledge regarding the Sinclair method, not listening to service users research and documentary evidence, to the point of ridiculing any new treatment.

Meanwhile on the other side are service users requiring help for drug addictation, which seems to be readily available, even going as far as having notices on walls reminding methodone users about being prepared and to ensure they have enough medication to last over Xmas!! Where is the immediate help for alcohol services, more often than not, information hidden in a pokey cupboard with a few scruffy seats and 3 year old magazines. The ADS centre I attended, looked like drug users were in a private waiting area, complete with plasma TVs, comfy seats, drinks machines and a child's play area, and numerous staff dealing with walk in addicts, that service is not available for users with alcohol problems like sudden withdrawal symptoms. They are just told if it's urgent you need to contact your GP and no you can't turn up at A&E .

 

Unfortunately, I can't help with that part, Misssy!

Just to point out, both C Three Europe and C Three Foundation in the US, only provide free alcohol counselling to those requiring either naltrexone or nalmefene, or wishing to specifially use The Sinclair Method.  We don't offer counselling for any other medications used in AUD treatment.

The reason for this is simple:

We do it completely and totally voluntarily, and both myself and Claudia over at C Three Foundation offer the counselling service amongst running full time jobs.  Since we focus on raising awareness of The Sinclair Method as an AUD treatment, we would be inundated if we offered free carte blanche alcohol counselling for everyone.

I am happy to look up prescribing information for any other AUD medications for anyone, but we have to draw the line somewhere with the free counselling.

Thanks!

I stand corrected, Joanna. Thanks!

Yep, that's why I made sure I managed to detox using just one of the two boxes of diazepam I was given (2 x 28 tablets) and one was all I needed.

I'm keeping that spare box, as they're like gold dust and soon it will be joined by the acamprosate and they will join my other daily stash of prescribed medications in the understairs kitchech cupboard, which are, Lactulose, Carvedilol (look that one up, it'll make you shudder), Thiamine, Amlopidine, Spironolactone, Vitamin B compound strong, Omeprazole and Folic acid.

It looks like a pharmacy in my house.

Hi misssy

good to see you back again xx

Hey Misssy, nice to see you, I missed you.

Pat xxxxx

Did you detox using ONLY the diazepam?  Was it still difficult?  How many diazepem did you take in a day?  Were you able to still carry on your life as normal during the detox?

Sorry for so many questions, I just need to know.

Thank you in anticipation,

Pat

Yes, diazepam does it for me. If I go cold turkey, I have to lie in bed for the first two days, I start to retch (I think this is my stomach muscles contracting and forcing a cough as air is expelled), I get nausea if I lift my head up, I lose my balance (bouncing off door frames) even walking to the toilet, if I eat or drink (water) I bring it straight back up, I suffer sweats (whilst feeling chilled to the bone), I suffer arm spasms just as I am about to nod off, thereby waking me up and I get foot cramp during the night.

The first two days are the absolute worst. So, out of a packet of 28, it goes something like this. Each tablet is 5mg. 3 tab morning, lunch, evening and 2 just before bed to see me through the night (11)

2nd day, 2 tab morning, lunch, evening and 2 again just before bed (8)

3rd day, 2 tab morning, late lunch, later evening (6)

4th day, 1 tab morning, late lunch, later evening (3) total of 28 which is one packet.

Yes I could carry on my life as normal, you do feel mildly out of it, but that is only for the first two days and it doesn't stop you doing any day to day things. No it was not difficult, but I would say people react in different ways to medication. But I certainly am a heavy drinker over decades, so if it works okay for me, I imagine it will for many others. The trouble is people on here don't seem to be able to get their GP to prescribe diazepam. I can't understand why, it is only Valium under a generic name and you're only ever given two weeks supply, so you're hardly going to get hooked on it.

Thank you very much for your very helpful reply.

Pat.

Well written Vickilou. I'm on day 1 again. Only meds I've got are paracetamol and phenegan(over the counter sleep meds). It's rubbish. Maybe I should change my addiction to heroin so I get more help? Joke. He we go again x

Has your GP prescribed you diazepam before?

Yes and no. If I'm lucky enough to get one of the more sympathetic Drs, the yes is usually very low dose for 2 days. I'm too ill to drive or get a taxi there at the mo so will have to be more prepared next time. Though if your prepared then you're kind of admitting to yourself that it's going to happen again. If that makes sense! Just going to have to grin and bear it

Yes and no, by that logic, purely because my wife has wine and beer in the house, it means I will drink it, because it;s there. But I don't, if I need alcohol, I'll go and get my own or go to the pub.

Having a packet of diazepam sat there, just knowing, I have a back up is reasurance. I am waiting for the acamprosate to arrive, meanwhile I've found quite a nice tasting alcohol free beer, which is occupying my mind. Alcohol free usually tastes like p*ss, but this is actually quite decent.

But my question was, had your GPs prescribed you diazepam, and if they hadn't I would kick up merry hell and threatent to complain about them. But it sounds like they have prescribed it several times and it hasn't worked, and they are under pressure (guidelines) to be careful about handing out too many benzos, hence their reluctance to give you more than a couple of days worth.

Paper fairy

i sympathise with you, and yes it's wrong you're suffering like this. There is no reason why you shouldn't be given meds to combat your withdrawal symptoms, regardless of whether or not you've had them before.

I can fully understand your comment about changing your addiction! Unfortunately it's true, much more help given to drug addicts, plus they're not made to feel ashamed and an embarrassment.

 

RHGB

Tut Tut, fancy using such strong language lol! To me it's an everyday expression, but my 7 year old grandson said it when I asked him if it was raining. I was explaining why it wasn't a nice expression, to which he replied, well grandad always says it when he can't play golf!! innocence of youth, shame they have to grow up. He and his 3 month old brother are my main priority in staying sober. I had the little one for the day yesterday, something which I thought I'd never achieve. Shame it took so long to realise and do something positive

Thanks Vickilou, great you've got your grandson for the day and you're well.

And RHGB, it's so frustrating when you take the time to write and it gets moderated, happened to me a few times too! 

Do  you mind if I ask if you are male or female and what age range you are in? 

Definitely male and I turned 50 last year. I'm 6'2", a Gemini with a GSOH.

Sorry, couldn't resist the last part. Not that I mind the questions, but they are very reminiscent of journalistic questions. I am one of the few people that put a few words into my biography (click on the forum name), so you would have been able to see it there.

HI Vickylou. See what you have achieved and the gloriouse moments beeing with your grand children and also being sober. This is something to treasure and I wish you all the best. 2016 is your year!! Well done! Robin

Thanks Robin and paper fairy

Thank you both for your kind comments and encouragement. I can't say it's been easy, but then nothing in life is. I haven't been teetotal, but only drink socially and on a friday/Saturday night.

The youngest smiled at me for the first time and even after having three kids of my own, it was a magical and poignent moment, one which a few months ago would have seemed impossible.

Ive been trusted to look after the youngest for two days a week when his mum goes back to work in June. I've just finished my CBT and would say to anyone offered this to go for it. I have always been very scathing about alternative treatments, but whilst it was hard work and quite emotional, it's very rewarding and explained a lot of things which enabled me to face certain demons in my past and have now been able to face, deal with and finally put them to rest.

I can't change past events, but I can let go and concentrate on now and the future. Dwelling in the past is not healthy, I now look forward to whatever the future holds and not to dwell in the past.

Time to move on and enjoy my family, life itself and see the positive rather than the negative.

Drinking nearly robbed me of my family, and have no intention of letting it consume me and eventually drag me down to the extent that I've lost everything that's dear to me.

 

Morning. Very inspiring message Vickylou. I'm over the worst now and on my day 2. I tapered over the last couple of days and feel like the insanity of alcohol has left me. I hope to start to take control of my life again, instead of the alcohol controlling me.

Have a great day x

you have certainly been through a lot RHGB! Cannot find your biography and clicked on your name....how?? Robin