Posted , 18 users are following.
Can anyone explain to me can you have AFIB without other heart issues causing it? In other words everyone posting on here that have AFIB had stress tests and echos etc done and everythign else is ok except for the AFIB? I know high blood pressure and sleep apnea can cause it- but I am wondering if it is a disease in itself or always secondary? ANYONE?
thanks
0 likes, 58 replies
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jane67417 PJoy
Posted
Hi, yes, it can just spontaneously arise with no underlying cause. I am one of those lucky ones! I'm otherwise extremely fit, slim, don't smoke, enjoy only the odd glass of wine (honest), take oodles of exercise, don't have diabetes, etc, etc, but it happened anyway. Its fairly unusual, but does happen. I think they refer to it as "lone" afib. Anyway, don't know if you already have, but get yourself a good cardiologist and talk it all through. I've just come off a course of Flecaine to help my heart hold its rhythm and so far so good. Had a couple of dodgy moments, but seem to be getting on top of the problem. All the best for the future.
PJoy jane67417
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Stuart143 jane67417
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Jane, I was in persistent AF until cardioversion and am now on Flecainide. How long did you take it for? I'm similar to you in as much as I didn't know I had AF until I was exercising one day.
I'm also taking Bisoprolol but no anti coagulants. I would like to come off the drugs completely.
jane67417 Stuart143
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Hi Stuart, I was only on Flecaine for a month. Was put on it to help my heart hold its rhythm. Worked well for me. Had one episode when I came off it, but lasted only a short time and been right as rain ever since. Only three weeks, which I know isn't long, but it definitely made a big difference in my case. So I'm not taking anything now, and that includes blood thinners, and so far so good, which I suppose is all one can ever say! All the best.
suzanne48640 PJoy
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john35864 suzanne48640
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suzanne48640 john35864
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I couldn't agree with you more, John. What I have learned is that you must be proactive in your treatment and learn everything you can about this disease. Not only does it help in your communications with your doc, but it gives you some peace of mind that what(ever) it is you are going thru is normal for this disease. Good luck! Suzanne
PJoy suzanne48640
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PJoy suzanne48640
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suzanne48640 PJoy
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PJoy suzanne48640
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frank61666 PJoy
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The gut-brain axis is a diagram of how the contents in the intestines interact with many of the things extending from the gut - through the heart - and into the brain. The vagus nerve is the electrical primary conduit of the blood-brain axis. The vagus nerve controls the heart beat, so if you disrupt the conductivity of the vagus nerve, heart beat problems can result, even if the heart is quite normal and healthy.
An avaerage adult can have as much as 5 pounds of bacteria in his/her gut. These bacteria are exceptionally important for countless reasons and they are a part of us all as they maintain normalcy on issues related to everything from the immune system to the nervous system. For example 95% of the body's seratonin is produced by bacteria in the gut.
Bacteria in the gut also keep immune system modifyers, like histamine, in check. If histamine can overload the body, then heart problems can ensue, originating from the gut, although this often is not obvious to the patient or cardiologist.
So, antibiotics used to wipe out a bacterial infection can also wipe out good bacteria in the gut as is often the case. Because of this, antibioitics can be included as causes of everything from heart rythms problems to mental depression.
I went on 90 days of doxycyclin, a strong antibiotic, for diagnosed lyme disease. Within a month, I had bad stomach issues, but also heart rythm problems later diagnosed as PAF.
When I realized what had happened, I finally found suitable probiotics to replace my gut bacteria wiped out by doxycyclin - result - NO MORE AFIB! It took a few months, but I feel victorious nevertheless.
To me, AFIB is an annoyance and a total pain in the ass. For those with AFIB episodes that are triggered by something eaten or drunk, there is a strong chance that the gut bacteria are out of sync and need to be replaced.
Frank
PJoy frank61666
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Thank you Frank. It is funny you say this because i was on some antibiotics long term for some skin issues. I then kept having recurring candida/yeast infections so i have been taking Probiotics religiously for the past month or so and now i get this- I was asssessing any changes in vitamins when i got the AFIB to see what could be contributing to it and i did begin taking magnesium because i read it was good for Blood pressure. Ironically, i just happen to cut down on caffein the past month- all of this i am doing and i get AFIB symptoms the past two weeks. Very strange. Ijust hope my heart checks out ok- May have sleep apnea have to check that out. Thanks you for the info- i do agree a lot of illnesses are brought on by lack of good gut bacteria. You should be a naturopath doctor
linda51222 frank61666
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L.
PJoy linda51222
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Great that your heart is healthy- that is so important- Thank you again for the info
simon56380 frank61666
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Hi Frank, this is an aspect that I had not considered. I'd like to do some more reading around this aspect of AF. On the face of it, it seems quite plausable.
I have a science background and like to do background reading on possible causes of AF.
Are there any reputable research papers on gut bacteria and it's impact on AF that you can direct me to?
Thanks in advance,
Simon
linda51222 simon56380
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Hi Simon,
Something for you scientific mind to ponder. as we all know our bodies are not seperate compartments,everything is interconnected in some way.
we are told that AF is an electrical fault and they are not sure what causes it.
Using the endocrine system as an example, ie, starting with the pituritary gland down to the hypothalmus the thyroid, parathyroid then to the pancreas adrenal glands down to the gonads in a man and ovaries in a woman back up the other side back to the top. if we imagine that as an electrical system and one of the glands gets a break in the circuit the other glands kick in to help especially the adrenals, the reason for it goes undiagnosed or is border line until in the end the adrenals are so worn out they can longer help. so they look for support from the heart eventuallycausing and electrical fault AF, maybe this is why ablation often doesn't work because they are actually looking at the wrong break in the wiring.
the endocrine system is very complex and all of the glands send out several different hormones like the pancreas dosen't just deal with insulin it digests food and sends different hormones round the body including seratonin to the brain.
maybe someone needs to look outside of the box.
L x
frank61666 simon56380
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Hi Simon
Going directly from gut bacteria to AF is not up to snuff (yet). But going from gut bacteria - to histamine - to AF is.
One of the first discoveries over 100 years ago involving histamine was how it causes heart arrhytmias in animals. It also is known that histamine overload can cause all kinds of heart issues.
That said, it is known that all kinds of probiotics contain specific strains known to degrade histamine (via oxidation or demethylation reactions) - L. plantarum, being one.
So, specific terms to google would be "histamine intolerance", "histamine and afib" and "histamine and probiotics".
Based on my situation alone, I'd be willing to bet a lot of afib can be traced back to antibiotic use.
I am a scientist too, so feel free to ask anything, any time and I might be able to find some info.....
A super ot area of research now is how antibiotics might be a cause of depression and stress due to wiping out gut bacteria - so there is a lot of exciting stuff for research today.
Frank
simon56380 frank61666
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Thanks Frank, interesting reading so far, but lots more googling to do yet.
I think Drs treat Afib symptoms because causes are so many and varied that it's hard to pinpoint the exact cause.
frank61666 simon56380
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Yeah - I took the approach I did since the "triggers" were all food related.
HappyBeatz frank61666
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Dear Frank...Well said. Prior to reading Your post had a thought in the middle of the night & the word Histamine came to mind & then I registered a day later & read Your post that resonated with me & made me feel I was on the right track. I was diagnosed with AFib in 1996. I was prescribed many Meds. Flecainide, Propafenol, Multaq, Sotalol (with a 4 day load up in the hospital that did'nt work) Diltiazem, Metropalol, Amiodarone & a Catheter Ablation.I was under a Physicians care when initially diagnosed in 1996 but in '2000 I lost my insurance & did nothing but live with until until the Ablation. At which time I was Suffering pretty badly in every way. I became a total recluse. Afraid to go out in public fearing & anticipating another AFib Episode. It was horrifying. The Ablation along with everal months of AMiodarone to pace me worked for close to a year. SInce then I have AFib Episodes regularly. Lately they've been every 3 days for 24 hrs. or more. Some Episodes are tolerable & I just accpet when they happen, go through it & make the Best of the few days I'm no in it but there are times I feel quite doomed. I become very anxious, dperessed & emotional. I am a caregiver to a 74 year old woman with Demnetia Early Onset Alzheimer's & that in itself I believe is perpetuating these frequent AFib Episodes. I wanted to ask if You would share what Probiotics You took & what kind of regimen did You create or follow? There is no doubt in my mind. I have a friend who never fails to remind me that I've always said I believe in my case & many will agree there is a Direct Correlation with the Stomach/Digestive System Disorders & Atrial Fib/the heart. I can never get a Dr. here in Los Angeles who will look into that. So I go & have an ABlation but then my stomach is a problem & a factor but I'm sent to a Gastrointerologist who works on my stomach & tells me I need to see a Cardioliogist for my heart issue but they wrok together. I've has this happen to me. The Gastro looked nervous when I told him I had AFib he immediately said "I'm a Gastro You need to see a Cardio." He wouldn't even listen to what I had to say. FRUSTRATING! I just want to have a life again. I cry everyday now when I wake up, during the day & when I got to bed. I saw an Electrophysiologidt back in June & he says he'll probably need to do 2 more Catheter ABlations. WHAAAT! This makes no sense to me. Anyway, I just wanted You to know how Your Post gave me some Hope. If You don't mind Please!!! If You remember what Probiotics You took & how often. I want to have a Heart that beats normal again without all this experimental, let's see what we discover when we do 1000 Ablations Life. Thank You! & Look forwarding to hearing from You or anyone else who can impart some information that helped them through this awful condition...
HappyBeatz
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Dear frank61666......Please! Excuse the typos. I'm in a rush...thanks