Afterlife ~ yes, or no?

Doc!

I just pondered this discussion as we were talking about this similar conversation in another message via you and myself.

Myself, I would like truth, honesty.  Just comfort so one isn't afraid or fearful of what may happen, to me, that's not good for either.

So, please be brutelly honest!

Frustrated

Hi frustrated.

I take my belief and substance of the 'next life' from the Bible. The Old Testament had a limited view called Sheol. All the dead, good and bad, waited there for judgement on the last day. Then Jesus came and clarified the position. He taught that Sheol had two parts with a great unpassable gulf between. Those blessed by God went to the part of bliss. Others went to the other part and disliked it intensly. The Gospel (good news) of Jesus Christ is that those who turn away from their own views of right and wrong and trust that Jesus Christ's goodness is suffient for them to be counted by God as if perfectly good will reside in new perfect resurrection bodies with Jesus Christ in the part of bliss.

I hope, frustrated, this over brief account of good news will help, Doc!

Hi Mark ~

Mark, have you ever had "deja vu" moments?  Or, something seems "familiar" but you don't know why? Or perhaps this is your "first" life? 

I don't know how to explain if but I feel there are other lives I've lived.  Once, a pirate, one time a little girl lived to 5-6 yrs old.  My belief is, sometimes we aren't here to learn a lesson, but to deliver a message.  That I could go into detail but won't unless anyone is interested.

So, not sure I answered your quest, Mark, but you've opened up for discussion!  Thank you.

Frustrated

Hi

This topic sounds interesting, please continue..

Hi Mark

I agree. If we foul up once, why not again and again every time. Besides there is no evidence that such a thing happens. The universe we know is one of cause and effect. One of the effects is that it will run down to cold inertness. We won't do much in that state.

I believe it's "faith"?  Doesn't faith give us a reason to go on?  There is evidence that we cannot explain except that we do return.  And, that doesn't have to be by not doing right.  Take the child that remembers falling from a tall building as it burned.  He screamed and screamed nightly from dreams he was having.  He also had a different name.  He remembers smelling the fuel from a jet engine, yes, he parished from 9/11.  How can you argue the fact when this particular child is 3 and had no reason or no knowledge of 9/11.  Or the other child that kept dreaming of falling from the sky (as it was, he flew a fighter in WW2 and his plane was shot down).  Or, the orphan trains in the 1850's a child in 2013 describes her time on the train and where she was taken and who adopted her.  This child at the time of describing the "train" was no older than 7.  The parents did go to the archives where data was and there it was, her name and adopted parents. 

This, to me, is proof that one can return and the business doesn't have to be that "we didn't get it right" but rather, we may just have left our lives too early.  Make any sense?

Frustrated

 

Anne,

Please join in as no one is right or wrong, it's our opinions, right?

That is another great question, well one question and an assertion.

Faith, confidence, trust are all facets of the same sort of thing. To make sense of the words we need an object or a clause. Faith in something or someone. In my case I have confidence in God whom I believe is trustworthy. I accept (but I don't like) trouble in this world because he promised his people that they would have trouble but they should be happy because he had overcome the world.

As to the interesting accounts, I have not the least idea. Someone else may be able to help us.

But, how do you know when you are dead? If you keep coming back then you will never experience death or the after life.

But, how do you know when you are dead? If you keep coming back then you will never experience death or the after life.

The only thing that comes to mind in respect to this topic is if there is not reincarnation then why aren't there more graveyards, as I'm sure that there would be more with the few hundred million people that walk the earth before us.

My guess, Mark is some didn't go that route as they perhaps chose to do the ashes and toss them across some beautiful mountain.  Also, at least in the US, you can build on a graveyard if it's been over 100 years, so who's to know?

But you do make a good point.

Frustrated

HI Mark, I am not quite with you there. Why would reincarnation mean that the vacated body skips past the graveyard? Would there not be just as many bodies in graves whether reincarnation or not.? Quite intreging.

Hi George

You do make a good point...why not be reincarnated as another living creature, for if there is reincarnation who is to say that we will come back as human.

Hi Mark,

Yes, that is a good point. I was too restricted in my mind to really understand the thrust of your comment. I think I have it now. That is the cyclical understanding of our universe and history. My thinking is linear history with repetitive patterns along the way. That concepts leads me to the concept of the mortal body powered by blood carried oxigen being superceded by a spiritual body powered by the spirity (the ultimate and eternal form).

Hi George

There are many directions and many paths that can be taken when we arrive in the afterlife. But the questions are;

1) Who chooses our path?

2) What's next for us ?

3) How do we know what mistakes are made and how do we repair these mistakes?

Hi Mark

I see you believe in many ways. So you have the problem of assessing your prefered way or perhaps trying to chosen for your prefered way. I am not up in these things. I hope that is basic enough to make my answer comprehensible.

!) God chooses and has set Jesus Christ as the path.

2a) we go by Jesus Christ and then we are with him on death and in due course will be given an immortal spiritual body.

2b) we go without Jesus Chrsit.and after death we await the end of the world when Jesus Christ will judge us and appoint a place for us. We will not like it.

3) all of us foul up for it is our nature. No amount of repairs will get us right with God. --> go to 2a)

I think that is my belief in a nutshell.

Hi George

I understand to what you are saying. But the only spiritual body that I am aware of are clouds in the sky.

Why...you ask?

Who knows how long they last as each time they fade then new clouds are formed and like god/Jesus Christ they give life.

I wonder if that is where the saying "on cloud nine" comes from.

Hi Mark,

Great that you are comfortable coming back at me. I am grateful for that. A forum is not much use if we don't contribute as well as receive whether it is our ailment, treatment or is there life after death a Yes or No.

My understanding is that I am not talking of clouds pretty and ephemeral though they are. Cloud Nine possibly refers the heighest sort of cloud in earth's atmosphere and a metaphore for the greatest feeling of elation.

Spiritual beings as I understand it are:

         ( Father - incorporeal

God  ( Jesus Christ - now corporeal

         ( Holy Spirit - incorporeal

            ( good - incorporeal

Angels  (

             ( bad - incorporeal

             ( after death - incorporeal         

Humans ( after resurection (no judgement) - corporeal

              ( after judgement - incorporeal

Quite a complicated scheme but I hope that shows my understanding.

Hi George

If clouds are not of a celestial nature, then why include them with angels, cherubs and sometimes on religious cards and cards of remembrance and mourning.

So I think that clouds are a form of life as it provides us with the most natural substance...water.

Hi Mark ~

I'm not sure we "do " know we are dead as many get "stuck" here.  I believe there is a light at the end because I am witness to that twice.  Once during recovery after an operation I felt "lifted" and saw a light then felt the paddles bringing me back.  The esctasy of being lifted to a higher place for me, did exist.  Second, and the most important to me, at my darkest moment, lying in bed and in such a terribly dark place, the room lit up and I was being lifted but still being human (I'm guessing this part) but I know I did get myself to a point then I was frightened and down I fell.  NO, I'm not crazy, no I'm not special, I'm just human like everyone else.  I believe we are given what we can accept at that time and the rest, we'll find out soon enough.

Life after death, it has to be a "personal" experience as I cannot tell you if you've been here before.  I, myself, have been.  I, one, either haven't learned what I'm supposed to learn or, two, passed away before it was my time ie: accident, murder something like that.

Mark, do you believe, hypothetically, if you were in an accident and injured beyond any pain one can deal with, do you die w/o pain or do you feel it to the end?  Same as in murder, do you feel the pain inflicted as the means of death or, what?

Curious what you have to say, truthfully!

Frustrated

Hi frustrated61

This has happened to me, when we found out that I was allergic to penicillin, which slowed my heart rate to the extent that I went into cardiac arrest and took them six attempts to get me back.

As for pain, I believe that pain is only briefly. Look at it another way. Have you ever heard of anyone that has lost a limb, but said that the pain is a dull pain. Most pain I think is through shock after realizing to what has happened.

Hypothetically, yes I do believe. Again look at UFOs we have all of these images the same as the afterlife and God, so something has to be there...hasn't there?

If there is no God, son of God of the afterlife and heaven, then why do millions pray to a God of their belief in the first place?

Mark and Doc!

Personally, I believe we are given choices (here's that free will again) and the path we take is up to us, even if its' the one less traveled.

I believed what is next for us depends on the path we chose. I believe God has chosen our paths but given us the opportunity to pick which way we want to go, right?

We may never know what mistakes are being made and may not have even come "back" for another chance, In fact, since you brought that up again, we may only be on this earth for someone elses purpose.  Meaning, (hypothetically speaking) we may cross paths with a person(s) that need directions, we give them then bam! we get hit by a car and die.  Now that's quite simplistic but the general gist of the idea is there. That could have only been our purpose a choice to ignore that person or be kind to them, right? 

Or a child who gets cancer before even walking, he's taught people to be humble.  That may be his purpose on the earth and I know this fellow and he did get cancer and the type he got would never had been noticed until he was around 2yrs old, some reason, the doctor told his mom to get him an MRI because his eyes weren't focused and wasn't  following back and forth, babies generally do not get MRI's at such a young age, he did and his life was spared and with all the surgeries he's had and never complained, he taught us all how to be humble, Yet another child suffering from the same exact cancer, passed when he was almost 3.

But, for the first baby, was this his purpose or ours?  get what I'm saying?

Anyway, food for thought.

Frustrated Xx <3 everyone!>

Hi Mark,

I see your point. Certainly  lots of artists over hundreds of years have made those sort of  depictions. How do you perceive eternity? I think some of those artists would have been trying to illustrate eternity by metaphores.

frustrated,

I do like the point you have made,  time and age do not matter if we have done what it is we are here to do.  So many times we ask the question what is it all for / about ?   this usually happens when we really do need answers because we are at very low points in our emotions,  we ask  what am I living for,  what is the point in living or why was I born at all.

Need to think some more on this one,   a nerve has just been hit.    Will return for more salve.

Regards

Jessica

Hi Mark and frustrated,

Those are fascinating thoughts. I really don't have any experience along those lines. The nearest, I suppose, was when I was suffering during the long years of steroid treatment for sarcoidosis. Much of the time the real me, the one who is writing this text, was about 1 foot / 30cm behind my body and controlling my body from there. Odd? I think it is odd. Then sometimes I notice that I have made a decision and my body moves in obedience a noticeable part of a second before my brain conciously makes the decision. Odd? mmm no, I find that interesting.

Does that connect at all with your comments, frustrated and Mark? Certainly we are very wonderfull made and I expect there are heaps more things to learn about them.

Fantastic, frustrated, fantastic food for thought. I go on the basis that we have one pass through this world. One pass seems quite enough for me. Even so, the miriad of interactions, the deliberate actions and words, the family we are born into, the era we are born into. Then there are the 'coincidences' and 'near misses'. It is all so complicated that I do not even begin to address the possibilities and unknown or unobserved significances.

I do however dwell on the things that seem key things. How I met my wife. Why I got prostate cancer (plenty of other men to make up the quota - rather dark humour, eh? It is not like the draft in the USA.) but when I see a silver lining in that dark PCa cloud I do think 'it is so I could have the joy of meeting my new friends. Friends that are bound to me in a way that would never happen if it were not for our adversities. So wife and new friends I count as blessings lavished on me by my loving Lord who loves me and gave himself for me. Remember the comments on seeds planted in the ground? The unplanted seed remains alone. But once planted while that seed yields up its goodness, a whole plant grows and six or eight rows of fine fat seeds swell and ripen to perfection  My Lord would never have embraced me in a loving relationship if he had not suffered for me so very much first. So too, he allows / arranges / designs a little suffering for me so I too can have very special relationships. There is no other way to have these very special relationships except through suffering. Ease and fun and money bring only weak relationships. Suffering forges eternal relationships. Yes that is the metaphore. Iron heated to white heat in the furnace, Then beaten on the anvil into shape with mighty blows of the hammer. Heated again, and beaten again, and again until perfect..Would you miss this shaping, and desire instead a life of petty ease with paltry assets you must leave behind for others?

That was beautifully said, Doc!  You are so right in that I would have never even opened up to some friends I consider "family".  My good, good friend, I call her my "sista from another mista" (remember, Doc lol) Well we've had deep discussions but it stops.  I don't know it we are just respecting one another and not push, not sure really.  I will tell you, though, she's coming over the beginning of next week and we'll be headed out to lunch...I will speak about all of you and see her "coo-coo" bells going off!  lol Not really, she totally understands and gets me and vice versa. 

Here, thousands of miles away from one another, we all just pick up like we've been friends/family for a very long time, would you agree or not?

But, yes, Doc, through our pain and suffering, we've all come together in a beautiful way.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart!

Frustrated XxOo

I feel a new discussion coming ...tba

Yes frustrated, I remember.

And your thanks touch me from the top to the bottom of my heart. I will remember that too.

"sista from another mista" Cheech (that second ch is the soft Scottish ch as in loch, ) That still tickles me..

O ... Oh 

My answer to that is this: To find your purpose in life, find your wound - Rick Warren.  

there's so much strength in that quote that it has helped me find my worth/purpose.

Again, it is what one thinks and not sure how you figure into this equation...how do you feel about this?

Frustrated 

Hello frustrated,

I recommend you follow this link about the work of the late Ian Stevenson - a Canadian-born U.S. psychiatrist who was with the University of Virginia School of Medicine for over fifty years as chairman of the department of psychiatry, Carlson Professor of Psychiatry and Research  and Professor of Psychiatry from 2002 until his death in 2007.

His research was focused almost exclusively on children who claimed to have lived past lives.

I also think you'll enjoy "Many Lives Many Masters" and "Love Is Eternal" by another U.S. psychiatrist, Dr. Brian L. Weiss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ian_Stevenson&oldid=635341973

Cheers

I don't think that can be right frustrated because if each of us has died many times we've left numerous bodies behind each time that need burying or cremating.

If the essential us is our spirit then the bodies in the graves are just the spent physical vehicles that we were once fond of. It does not seem to me to matter whether the bodies for a human spirit had the same DNA or not. But it seems from the various posts that different DNA is used for otherwise the same strengths and weaknesses would be exhibited and of course the same sex.

What do you think?

DNA is matter and spirits are not matter so I assume that any spirit can be in any body, whether male or female. I've wondered about people who claim to be in the wrong sex bodies; is it possible that they were a different sex in a previous life and subconsciously remember that?

The same strengths and weaknesses would probably be inherent in our spirits so would surface again in following bodies regardless of DNA, although DNA programmes us. Perhaps DNA is a layer on top of the spiritual inner core? We may have to deal with for instance alcoholism in one life time, and something else, such as Autism in another one but with the same spirit. Different challenges?

Yes Georgia, I was thinking along those lines. Different physical challanges would suggest opportunity for spiritual progress.

'Autobiography of a Yogi' Paramahansa Yogananda explains it all beautifully. Apparently we can choose whether we come back and when. We can rest in the afterlife if we desire to, help from there or come back and help. I think we're all here to help in some way.