Afterlife ~ yes, or no?

Jesse ~

Since I witnessed this first hand as I illustrated in a previous post here, I believe the "near death" is a real.  I've been there, felt it, and still live on to talk about it, although I'm very selective with whom I talk about this to as I still have so much to learn about everything and would not want to make a mockery of ones beliefs.  You ask me how I feel about the "near death experiences", may I ask the same?  Please note that I am not  by any means challenging anyone, I'm just searching as most here, I believe are, right?

Again, thank you!

Frustrated

Hello frustrated,

I have first hand experience of this, have never ever spoken of it however.   I was a child, bad accident resulting in much physical damage including fractured skull.  At one point I saw mayself on the theatre table as men in gowns worked on my head,  no feelings no sounds just watching.  No fear, only that I was watching what was taking place to the 'body'  on the table.   That was it,  no white light, no falling I was I feel - as I search my memory now and try to be reasonable that I must have been seated somewhere to observe the goings on down below me.  There was no sensation of going back,  next memory no idea of time factor, was being in a hospital ward.

Was it death or near death,  nothing was used to bring me back ie paddles or physical pounding of the chest that I saw.  I later learned I was placed in a bed and it was a matter of wait and see if she comes round, this was back in the mid 1950s!  nothing fancy like what we have now equipment wise to aid the coming round process .

If that was death,  I am fine with it,  calm and peaceful.

Jesse ~ (Hi Doc!!)

Can you recall why you didn't mention this happening in the 50's to anyone?  I'm curious if it's the same reason I haven't spoke of it.  My reason, and it clearly states this in the Bible, what we learn is for us to learn and for the "non-believers" they would tend to pass us off as coo-coo's, but mostly out of fear.  Anyone having such a beautiful experience that no one else had experienced, she must be nuts, right? lol  or, I want what she's smoking...lol geesh!  The Bible warns us not to boast loudly regarding what we experienced, yet, when we are with other's who have similar beliefs and possible experiences, we feel at ease.  I can/could have only imagined me speaking freely of this when this happened in the late 70's, everyone would have definitely had a say in that I was "on drugs".  And, with a title like that, my life would have been so terribly different. 

When I read the bible, it speaks to me, not me to it.  And if I  don't understand what's going on, I put it down and pick it up later sometime and then it all falls into place, perhaps I wasn't ready to bear what was being said at that particular time.  I believe so.  This forum  has opened me up in ways I'd never thought I would.  I thought I'd die with that knowledge, what a shame that would have been.  When you describe your experience, I don't "rolleyes" or even hesitate, I believe you 100% that you had that experience, one thing, though, do you recall if you were at peace or any emotion at all?  Anyway, bbs with a smile   LOL whoops

Frustrated

Hi frustrated,

  I had no feelings nor heard any sounds, I was calm and peaceful for what ever time it lasted.   The accident happened at the start of a holiday, it finished said holiday . I was the only one hurt,  can recall my time in hospital and fellow patients but nothing at all of parents.  Ma only ever spoke of it in anger,  ' first holiday in five years and thats as far as we got ( name of place mentioned)  I was afraid to speak of any of it.  I speak now only because of the discussion and the purpose my experience may serve.   

I had not given any thought as to why it has not been mentioned by me before to anyone,   will say now though that the anger it roused  remains a strong memory, her words are still clear in my head,  as is the experience I had.    

Could it be as a frightened child,   ( not frighted by what had happened - either accident of happening)  I took comfort from the peace I found in that place,  I am trying not to put words into my head now,  if you understand,  I do recall the peace quite clearly,   it would be easy I guess to enlarge,  but I will stick only with what I remember,  my somehow precious little secret.   

Memories, they return at the oddest times and out of the blue,  darned if I can remember the things I should be remembering tho lol !!

 I do hope you got something positive from your experience and  it remains special to you.

Jessie

Those are precious, precious memories. In the quiet annonimity of the forum we share them yet keep them secret. Another silver lining to the dark cloud that brought us to this blessed spot.

Indeed,   nothing is sent to us that we are not strong enough to bear,  but the bearing becomes easier when shared with those who understand and are ready to walk with us awhile along the rough path until it levels out.

Jessie

Hi Jesse ~

As far as getting something positive out of my experience, I have.  However, it's taken me  along time to expose my most inner feelings about this which is why it's making this so positive.  Beautiful. It excites me as I do  believe after this life, there's one amazingly, far better than this life.  Our purgatory.  Which, if you will, follow me to the next discussion.  We can come back here but I have another door I'd like to open, if it's ok with you and Doc?

Frustrated

Doc! I love the way you think.  Indeed I've found solace with all of you.  I was at the point of leaving this site entirely due to a few that make it difficult to post an "opinion" w/o always feeling like it's a challenge.That's why I would personally like to emphasis, this is OUR feelings, no one person is right and no one person is wrong.  It's all good!

Frustrated

Mmmm what door are you going to boot open for us now? The Yes or No has been very dynamic and quite overstraining the simple discussion structure of main level plus subordinate level. I expect whatever you have in mind will produce similar stresses to the system. So I am all agog .

As to it being ok by Doc! I doubt if shooting out a foot in a foul tackle would stop you, Besides, you are a 5 star general and I but a lowly 3 star general. I therefore stand smartly aside, throw up my best salute and reply, "Yesss, Mam."

That was well-said, Jesse.  How do you feel about a person who gets slammed and slam and that particular person doesn't feel they can bear it.  That old saying "God doesn't give you anything he knows you cannot handle".  Suffering, is that handling?  Or is it accepted some are here to only suffer?

I guess my lack of sleep is really catching up to me.  My fingers are a fumbling!

Frustrated

HaHa! you are silly!  Please, if I'm understanding you correctly, are these discussions over stressing anyone?  Doc, I would never want that to happen with you.  I just felt a true connection with you and I know you are a wealth of information!  I love it!

and before you say "Yesssss, Mam", please bow  LOLOL joking!  what the heck are you talking about a five star general?  Geesh, I must be tired lol I'm only cracking myself up!

XxFrustrated oO

Also, George, I don't want to shut this door unless the other door takes too much energy from all of us.  I have to admit this is tiring but I def up to that because it's energy being used for something instead of me being a slug on a leaf.

I look forward, Doc!

<3 frustrated>

Go to it mam. See how smartly I stand aside and watch for that door to crash open.

Anyway thinking, reading and writing in these discussions is both instructive and theraputic. It quite takes me out of my anxieties and introspection. I fear men with prostate cancer spend too much attntion and anxiety contempating their navel. (I was going to write ' contemplating their lost errection' but I then thought that might be indelicate so I used a euphonism instead. Shows some finer fealing, don't you think?)

Most definitely, Doc! (as I  like a little girl) lol and I'm happy to hear that this is a theraputic and instructive as how I'm feeling.  I love to learn and I love to see every side of a situation.  I know my way "clearly isn't the highway" so I accept everyone and respect everyone for that reason!

 

Hi frustrated,

sounds good,   shall resist the urge to peek till I have read through again on here.   Tis more than OK,  thank you for invite.

Jessie.

Hi frustrated and geaorge,

you two have quite a way of jogging along and it's catching !.   Re. this site,  I have personally encountered a lot of aggression and negativity in the subject that brought me here,  the drug Diazepam, which I took for muscle spasm.  This got me down and I also was on my out but had a last look in chat before leaving  -  wallahh  it is very good to 'meet' people who can exchange opinions and discuss a subject with openness and no put downs or 'I'm right '  thats it attitude.     

Jessie

Hi frustrated,

everyone has their breaking point,  lady who used to live next door several times said to me  ' you always get the sh*te end of the stick '   -   pls excusse the language,  but lol it summed up a lot of things !!  Turning the other cheek and marching on can at times be difficult,  there are only a certain amount of slaps can be taken before a tender patch arrives.

With heart of oak and spine of willow the feet go on albeit gathering layers of clay with each step.

Lack of sleep will make those fingers tumble over the keys, hope you manage to catch up,  we look forward to your words with anticipation, and the new subject.

Sleep well me dear.

Jessie

Hi 5 star General fistrated, Mam,

Look top left of each text panel. And there you are. We are all generals. The new comer, brigader general. Then there is 2 star, major general,. Jessie has 3 stars, lt general. etc. A bit zany maybe, but fun.

The bottom line is WE ARE ALL STARS. It is so great to be on the forum and you all are even greater for being on the forum and rooting for ME. OK OK  frustrated, I hear you, ALL of us rooting for ALL OF US. 

I knew it, frustrated. You are one of them, you know .... one of those who loves your neighbour (British site remember so crazy British spelling, OK?) And when we are all in trouble we need to love our troubled neighbour extra hard. 

Come to think of it, all outside the forum are in trouble too, it's just that some of them don't know it. So we had better love them extra hard too. What do you say? 

Hi Jessie, yes, I like that, thank you. Yes frustrated and do jog along. And I have been eyeing you up and down. Trying not to embarras you. I think you may be a kindred spirit. I hope you are.

Mmm the agression you talk of. Yes, mmm we, each of us on this forum are hurting, some very badly indeed, others perhaps not as much. Some, particularly men for they have testosteron to deal with are seriously frightened and that can express itself in agression to everyone and everything. Ladies, please take careful note of this because you may tend to run from agression. Please, please don't go away. Just step back and let it pass over. I had no idea what a burden men bare with their testosterone until my treatment removed that burden from me. Not only did I not have to hold myself under restraint as I had since I was 11 (puberty) I was free to think and speak in a much more open way. Yes, it hurts when someone bites at us. Just please do not leave the forum. You are very much needed, especially be here for your men. Men are reluctant to come on the forum but they need the contact and you are their link.

 

Hello again Jessie, 

My last reply to you was adressed mainly to the ladies. So I write again, mainly to the gentlemen. I am all too aware of how hurt and fear translate into irritatation and impatatience. However, we are all on this forum because we are hurting. We are also all volunteers. We choose to use the forum, to be a part of it. If we bark and bite at each other and demand that our thought must be universally approved ..... well, no one needs to stay. In the end we will have the forum to ourselves. Then who would encourage us and help us get ourselves together again and be able to face today and step confidently into tomorrow? If we disagree with someones thought we must always be accepting of their point of view while presenting our own views. It is tricky getting the best for ourselves from the forum. The cost is being easy and gentle with all forum members. We need to be particularly cautious with gender neutral psudonims in case we are replying to a lady. 

Well Jessie, I hope these two replies are together a balanced response to your troubling admision that you had almost been driven from the forum. I should greatly welcome further comments from you or any other forum member to fill up what is lacking in my efforts. I know you are not the only one who has almost been chased away from the forum. I have no idea if any have quiety stopped visiting.

Hello George,

I did not make my self very clear,  that was because I did not want to point a finger at a discussion.  Some folks think sueing the Dr, who prescribed or unprescribed should be sued, charged because they have a duty of care to the patient,  sue -- sue--- and get angry.  Tis not my way,  not my way at all,  I am a quite little soul who came here for help,  to learn from the experience of others in a similar situation,  very much like yourself I guess.   I don't understand why folks want to tell me to get angry and sue my Dr,  anger and the stress it brings let along taking litigation against someone only makes matters worse.  I am not stressed nor want to be by those dissatisfied with their lot in like and who think getting angry, shouting etc etc is any kind of answer.      I never did get help or find anyone in the same position as me,  hence I decided to leave,  heck me on my on is a way of life I live and will work through things.  I will not though listen to them who shout and get angry.    Best avoided !!!!

Moving on George,  I have just had a brief look at yourself,    so sorry to read about your illness  and the bad time you have gone through.   Always be positive,  seek out laughter and those who bring happiness.  I have been in the same place as you more than once,   I made it through and  am able to say,  stay positive.     I see you have further treatment to start at the end of this month and must be surely worried about it,  try not to,  it is given to help.    Will be thinking of you.   Be strong,  stay happy and positive always x

Jessie

Dear Jessie, 

I am sorry you are leaving the forum. Yes, I understand. Thank you for your kind contributions. I wish you well and better than this world often deals out to us.

Your friend George

Hello George

you two have quite a way of jogging along and it's catching !.   Re. this site,  I have personally encountered a lot of aggression and negativity in the subject that brought me here,  the drug Diazepam, which I took for muscle spasm.  This got me down and I also was on my out but had a last look in chat before leaving  -  wallahh  it is very good to 'meet' people who can exchange opinions and discuss a subject with openness and no put downs or 'I'm right '  thats it attitude.     

followed   by

Hello George,

I did not make my self very clear,  that was because I did not want to point a finger at a discussion.  Some folks think sueing the Dr, who prescribed or unprescribed should be sued, charged because they have a duty of care to the patient,  sue -- sue--- and get angry.  Tis not my way,  not my way at all,  I am a quite little soul who came here for help,  to learn from the experience of others in a similar situation,  very much like yourself I guess.   I don't understand why folks want to tell me to get angry and sue my Dr,  anger and the stress it brings let along taking litigation against someone only makes matters worse.  I am not stressed nor want to be by those dissatisfied with their lot in like and who think getting angry, shouting etc etc is any kind of answer.      I never did get help or find anyone in the same position as me,  hence I decided to leave,  heck me on my on is a way of life I live and will work through things.  I will not though listen to them who shout and get angry.    Best avoided !!!!

Again    sorry     I   did     not    make    myself    clear,         I was     on     my    way   out      but      then     came     across    the    thread     that     yourself         and      frustrated      had      going.

I      shall      be      around,        may        join     you    again     in       subject      who      knows.

Stay   well      and    be     happy    -        both    of    you !

Jessie.

Jesse ~  I've been thinking about this post regarding your experience and you feeling peace etc...proof of that poem about when you see only one set of footprints, know that I'm the one carrying you.  Such a powerful poem that it always sticks to me, it's a beautiful thing ~  Faith.

Frustrated

YAY! YAY! for the stars!  Yes, Doc, we are ALL stars in our own right!  Jessie, I love your willingness to open up to Doc and I and everyone who joins in this conversation.  All are welcomed!

TTYS my friends and sleep well!

Frustrated

Doc, you can say NAAAber, neighbour, neighbooor anyway is acceptable to me, How U doin' lol  HAHA! yes, extra hard and over easy LOLOL silly

Frustrated

Jessie ~

Yes, indeedy, re: agression with a capital A!!  It's a sad thing to watch people treating others unkindly, just because they spoke their opinions.  Very sad indeedy.  I found many very unfriendly and that's ok.  Cliques and myself do not get along anyway.  I've always sided with the underdog because they usually are being bullied.  Bullied, can you imagine being bullied from ADULTS, shame and sad indeed.

I also agree with the exchange of opinions, it's refreshing to be able to do so w/o criticism and crass remarks.  I've held back and kindly asked whomever didn't like my response to address me via email which was ok because then everyone else could go on with the particular discussion but, that got a big NIX as well because why do it in an email...dah, to save the other's from unduly stress.  Go figure! 

Anyway, I hope you join us in other discussions because you and my friend Doc are extremly well versed and fun to talk with!

Frustrated

Doc ~

Amen to that, my friend.  I know this post is going to end up waaaay below so it'll be hard to follow.  WOndering why when we reply to that one person, it cannot follow just below that one person...are they assuming only two in a discussion?  Possibly this is something they can fix, I'll assume so until I'm told differently.  I will ask the Mod regarding this situation as it's very trying to keep re-reading until you finally find what conversation this person is responding to.  Do you agree? or is this just my nemisis?

Frustrated ~ be well my friends and carry on!

<3 xx>

And galluses, braces and suspenders. Yes it is great to have some fun and English is a great laguage to have it in. Have a great rest, frustrated.

"navigating the discussion"

That is such a good idea that Jessie and you have that I have started a discussion on it. I hope we can get lots of ideas out in to open so we can think of something effective for us to use and require the minimum of cost and effort to patient.info. So thinking caps on everybody and let us have a great brainstorming cession. It should be fun too. Remember no judgements or assessments at first - just raw ideas and an ovation for Jessie and frustrated.  

oh that is such a beautiful piece of poetry. I don't suppose someone has it to hand to write out on here?

it would be so lovely to see again. i burst into tears the first time i read it...the surprise and beauty of the ending ...now so familiar x

Dear Marey,

No need to write it out. There is an official web site for it. Do a search on

footprints in the sand poem

and you will be there. Yes, it is a joy to read and a powerful corrective to our selfcentred view. I for one need that message frequently applied.

Thanks ...well i'll try to import it over so we can all be refreshed and restored by the power of that message xxxxxxx

Footprints in the Sand

 

 

        One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord.

             Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky.

                  In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand.

                       Sometimes there were two sets of footprints,

                           other times there were one set of footprints.

 

                                  This bothered me because I noticed

                                that during the low periods of my life,

                             when I was suffering from

                         anguish, sorrow or defeat,

                     I could see only one set of footprints.

 

          So I said to the Lord,

      "You promised me Lord,

         that if I followed you,

             you would walk with me always.

                   But I have noticed that during

                          the most trying periods of my life

                                 there have only been one

                                       set of footprints in the sand.

                                           Why, when I needed you most,

                                          you have not been there for me?"

 

                                 The Lord replied,

                          "The times when you have

                  seen only one set of footprints,

          is when I carried you."

                                                   Mary Stevenson

Yes Marey, yes. It brings tears to my eyes.

it is lovely isn't it.

Jesse, 

I felt mine as calm and peaceful also.  I did have the paddles to bring me back and I did come back quickly.  But that feeling of peace...I look forward to it

Frustrated