Beta blocker/Bisoprolol withdrawal and breathlessness

Don't walk too much. Start with a little bit and rest. I had similar experience when they gave me corticosteroids. Even though they are not bp meds. They can mess up your hormones big time. I couldn't walk for more than 2-3 minutes after I had those shots, even though ealier I would easily run 1-2 miles. I was simply out of strength, like a deflated baloon. So my conclusion is that whatever infuences your hormones, can mess up your body's natural response to either physical or mental stress. Don't push yourself to do what you would think " a regular physical activity" until you are back to normal. The problem is that your mind still thinks  "it's OK" while your body is not ready for it

Thanks denys.  It's just so freaking frustrating, especially considering 2 months ago I was running 4 miles 5x a week.  

Can't believe what my body has become.  I can't seem to appreciate any little forward momentum I make.  I guess, like you say, I'm just pushing my body past where I mentally think it should be.

I'll take it easier from here.  Thanks again!

I know how it feels. I would run in the mountains, play football, do heavy construction work etc. And then they gave me a couple of shots for pain and that altered my world. So don't look backwards, look forward. This is not USUAL state of your body. It's been a long journey for me but I'm thanking God for any progress I make. About 1.5 year ago I was in a car accident and I'm just thankful that I'm not crippled, bed ridden or dead. So don't give up. There are better days ahead. I'll keep you in my prayers!

Thanks denys, I appreciate your words.  I'll say a prayer for you as well.

 

I said above "Iv'e been on a vegan diet so i'm hoping that will come down on it's own and I can get off th beta blocker as well as the Clonodine."

I mean to say get off the clonodine and calcium channel blocker (Nefidipine - Hate this med also, gives me rapid heart beat and palpitations)

I too get a low pulse now, down to 53, but then most of the time it is much to high when resting. The thing with the breathing, I can no longer feel my lungs working so often go into fast but laboured breathing, especially when under the slightest stress. So when I told mt cardiologist understudy, he was so adament that it cannot be beta-blockers or my heart, he even suggested I might have lung cancer so I should see my GP. My GP put me on inhalers for Ashtma, which do help slightly, but loook at this article from the BHF, saying the amount of people with serious heart problems that are mis-diagnosed, 7% mis-diagnosed as having Asthma, like me, but the fact they are investigating me for a serious heart condition yet still say I must have asthma is frightening at the degree of their incompitance!  https://www.bhf.org.uk/news-from-the-bhf/news-archive/2017/july/deadly-heart-conditions-being-attributed-to-stress-and-anxiety

Just wanted to give an update.

It's been 2 weeks since the hospital took off the beta blocker (labetalol) and put me on clonidine.  As I mentioned Clonidine was better but was giving some similar symptoms BB gave me.  

I cut the does in 1/2 after the 1st week as I couldnt' function and my breathing was all messed up.  Sure enough I felt 50% better next day.

Today, I do feel a lot better and I was walking a  blcok and started to get a bit dizzy so I stopped.  However when I got home I felt better and decided to mow my lawn.  Wasnt bad at al, but I noticed I was breathless like I was exercising - mowing my lawn was never an exercise before lol.  My heart did get 135 bpm.  It would never have gotten past 70 in the past.

So I'm feeling a bit better, but I'm weary.  History tells me when I've come off of BB, I felt real crappy at the 4-6 week mark and my BP would sky rocket.

Im hoping that the clonidine and the Calcium Channel blocker I'm on will curtail that.  But I also feel like I'm racing against time with the clonidine.  I don't want to be on it too long for fear it will start doing similar things to me that BB did.  Fortunately, I'm taking a very minimal dose (But we know even the most minute doses can create havoc) and am down to 1.5 mg 3 x a day.  The hospital left me at 3.0 mg 3 x a day.

I'm also worried that if my BP sky rockets around the 4 - 6 week mark I will have to go back to up my clonidine to get through that phase.  I'm crossing my fingers I won't have to.. that way, when it's over, I can phase out my clonidine.

Lastly, 3 weeks ago I switched over to a Vegan diet.  I do think that's helping quiet a bit, so I'm hoping that will also keep my BP down during that 4-6 week mark.

I need off these crazy chemicals!  But I will keep my chin up and push forward and hope for the best.

Oh one more thing... I have one weird symptom that is very disconerting and makes me think I have some brain damage.  Please let me know if you get this.

When I try to walk outside my vision does this funky glitch that throws me off balance.  I could be looking down and suddenly look up and it's like my brain or my heart has not caught up to the new scenery and makes me feel off balance and my heart sinks a little bit.

Also, just being outside walking throws me off.  It's like my brain can't take in all the different data coming in at once and throws off my balance.

Hope that makes sense.

Thanks

Whilst not the same brain symptoms, when I first went on Bisoprolol, I said I felt like a dunk Zombie, well I have been off BB for three months now and am even considering asking for a MRI brain scan because my brain feels so completely dull, a real feeling at the back of my head and neck as if I had pins and needles that has left the area feeling numb. I feel drunk all the time now?

Man Peter, I read some of your posts in other groups and you've been through the ringer.

I can only hope that this is all leading somewhere for you and that you get better days and start feeling yourself again.  

So sorry to read what you have had to endure.

Keeping good thoughts for you.

BBs interfere with the blood–brain barrier. So expect gliches. Everyone may have his own. I woud have a slow reaction in my head and sometimes would feel confulsed if my brain would be getting information from two or three different sources simaltenously, like if someone is asking me something, while I'm reading or listening. Not always but sometimes. You just need to realize that your nervous system has been " hacked". So if you get pulse high, rest and drink water. It should come down on its own. Your brain now is getting different signals from the previous left over drugs plus the new ones, plus your own anxiety. So, relax. If you dind't have it before, that it's NOT you. Assuming your other vitals are ok and you are not having a hypertenstion attack.  

Now, don't add your own anxiety to the situation. If you react to all these weird feelings and start thinking " I'm getting crazy" it will only make things worse. Shaken nervous system is a dangerous thing  and needs to be put "back into the jar".  Hope it helps

Great explanation... thanks!

Surprisingly... today my BP is solid.. hardly any fluctuations.  It's beeen swinging high low for a long time.

Thats a nice thing to say Islybot, thank you and I hope you feel better very soon.

How many times do you measure your bp?

 

I meant a day

 

BP: 6 x a day.... Before and after my meds.  Which I take 3 x a day

My chiropractor ( nutritionist)  told me to measure it once or twice a day regardless of how many times a day I take medication. The reason being is that every time you measure it you "tie yourself mentally" to the numbers on the screen. So if the number is good then you feel good, if the number is bad you feel even worse. And here is the kicker, then you start thinking about it the whole day. And that in turn creates stress and stress raises your blood pressure and can bring about other symptoms as well. So the conclusion is the fewer measurements the better. It pretty much works the same way with the BBs :   you need to '' wean off" from bp measurements. 

Oh boy.. that's gonna be tough.. lol

I'll try and cut it down to 4 a day..

 

quick update

My morning BP (yes, I should be cutting back on measuring my BP :-P) dropped down quite a bit today after taking meds (Clonodine and Nifedipine) 110/70 ... Which sound good but since my BP has been running high for quite a while, that drop didn't feel very comfortable.  However, it does give me confidence to know momentum is there.  I do hope is more from me going on a vegan diet then it is the meds.  But only way we'll see is when I get off the meds.

Went for another walk and I probably pushed it more then I needed to but I'm feeling ok at the moment.  Went out at a snails pace and walked about 20 mins.   It's such a weird feeling, like Im retraining my body to just walk.  I do get these weird feelings like i"m floating, but not only floating but floating fast, and then slow.. fast and then slow.  Even though Im going at the same speed physically.

Also, got a new darn symptom.  I'm noticing I'm much more sensitive to heat then ever before.  Whether it's walking or taking a shower.  When in the shower if I stay in too long I get these raised like goosebumps.  Never had that before.  Oh the joys of these medicines.  Oh, also got a couple of minor nosebleeds, which I read was a side effect of the Nefidipine.  

Man, I can't wait to get off these last 2 meds.

Each day it seems I'm getting just a bit better.  Was able to walk for about 

15-20 mins at a normal page (But for me seems fast), as opposed to my snails pace.  But as mentioned I am weary, because in the pas withdrawal hit me hard around 4-6 weeks.  I'm hoping I've already been through my withdrawal.  Trying to stay positive.

For Bob, or anyone else that has been able to wean off BBs.... I know that a fluctuating Blood pressure is common, but how long after your last BB pill did you find your BP start stabilizing?

Thanks

Islybot, about those weird brain symptoms: while I was on Beta blockers, I had memory problems, feeling as if I am not concentrated 100%, I would forget all the time what I wanted to do etc.

Now, when I am off, I am feeling better, but a part of a damage is still there, I think.

When I have quit Beta blockers, I had huge problems in the beginning, as if my brain was working too much all the time.

I had problems with loud music, loud noises.

I had to turn down Tv all the time. If I would listen to 2-3 songs on the radio, I would feel as if I had been on some rock concert for 24 hours.

I used to tell to my family all the time: please, turn the tv or radio off, it is so loud, I can't stand it, my head will explode.

Also, back then, I was also too sensitive to sunlight and bright and moving colors.

If a Tv had some action scene, or too bright colors, or flashing lights, it annoyed me.

The same as loud music.

Also, back then I had problems with sunlight. Even though it was winter, if I would go out for a wlak, I would need to put my hands over my eyes and I used to tell to myself: omg, why is this sunlight so bright? It is killing me.

Now, when I look back, it seems that our central nervous system was just too sensitive when you stop taking beta blockers and it can't handle adrenaline and everyday normal things around you.

Sounds seem as too loud, lights seem as too bright etc.

So, you probably have similar problems.

Either your brain is too sensitive currently, or your brain is now trying to adapt to a new situation (without beta blockers).

Remember, beta blockers are making our bloood vessels wider (to lower blood pressure).

And now, if you quit beta blockers, your blood vessels will be thiner again. That means that your brain will get less blood suddenly compared to days when you were taking Beta blockers. This is why we can have dizziness and headaches for some time after quitting BBs. 

But after some time, your body will readjust to thiner blood vessels and it will start to work "normal" again.

So, if you are out of balance, it is probably connected with all these changes in our body, in our vessels, in our brain due to quitting beta blockers.

Thanks Bob.  Great answers.

I was definitely, and am still to a point, senstive to to anything loud.  But it has gotten better.  In fact all of my symptoms have gotten better.  I'm still challenged with high blood pressure, but that's coming down as well.

This Sunday I will be off BBs for 4 weeks.  While I'm feeling good about it, I also know I have to get through the next month.  If I can do that then I think I will have made it out of the black holes.  But as mentioned, Im very cautious as in the past it was between 4-6(maybe 8) weeks when symptoms would bull doze thier way back in.  I'm just hoping my change to a vegan diet will take care of that.  So far so good.

I was even able to walk 3-4 miles today at a decent speed.  I'm not running yet as I do still feel like my equilibrium is still off.

Crossing my fingers and hoping I have left the dragon's mouth.

Are you on any other bp meds? Or just a free fall?

Hi Denys,

I'm on clonodine and Nifedipine.  The clonodine I cut dosage in half because it was giving me similar symptoms as the lebatalol.  But cutting it half I've actually been able to bring my BP down lower.

The Nifidipine brings BP down short term but also had crappy side effects.  Pushes my pulse rate up to 115 fora couple of hours after taking it and giveing me gum inflamation.

Something tells me once I can get these meds out of my life and stay with the Vegan diet, my BP will revert back to normal.

But for now, it's comforting knowing that these meds can be helping me go through my BB withdrawal.   I just have to make it through 4 more weeks then I think I"m in the clear.  By that time, I will start weaning off the clonodine first and eventually the Nifedipine... by that time my Vegan diet should be kicking in fully :: Crossing fingers ::

 

I wanted to report again that most of the symptoms of BB withdrawal have diminished markedly.  I no longer have bradychardia.  I can walk 4 miles (can't run yet, but at least I can walk.  Don't feel like I'm gonna faint.  Energy is back up, not felling anywhere as exhausted then before.  I am still a bit dizzy, but I'm attributing some of that to the nifedipine.  All in all, so far so good.  Just gotta get past the next month.

In order to get your meds out of your system you will need to clease your liver, cause if some of those meds disagree with your body, your liver ( the filter) will try to rid of them by shoveling them within itself  to keep them from getting into the blood stream, some will end up in the fat cells as well. 

 

Thanks Denys, ya I probbly need to do a good liver cleanse.

Well, I think I'm about fed up with the meds and decided to just wean off all of them.

I'm down to 1 cap of the nefedipine a day (Suppose to take 3/day) .. and quite frankly, although the Nef would bring BP down to normal for an hour it would shoot back up to 150-160/90-100.  Well so far after only taking 1 nef a day... Im seeing consistent 150/100.  A few months ago I would constantly see 170-190.. so, I think I'm doing. 

I'm keeping up with the Vegan diet so I think that's helping and eventually will get me down to normal in a month or two or three.

Also, I started doing something called oil pulling (look it up if you don't know about it) and supposedly it clears up the bad bacteria in your mouth, which is suppose to be a gateway for heart issues.   And I've only been doing it for 3 days, but I think that's part of the reason why My BP is somewhat lowered even though I am weaning off he medications.

I'm still worried however, with what the next 3-4 weeks is going to do in regards to getting a withdraawal from the BBs (which I stopped 4 weeks ago today), but I'm thinking, more hoping, I've already gone through the major witdrawal process after my ER stint.  

Time will tell but so far feeling pretty decent, but tentative.

Hmmm... something's going on here.  I stopped taking the Nifedipne and BP is starting to hit the 140s/90s more consistently.  I'm sure my vegan diet has something to do with it, but I think I'm going to have to give the oil pulling some good credit also.

My Creatinine levels were a little on the high side and I've noticed the last 2 years that my urine would be foamy (a sign of higher creatinine levels). 

Since I've started going vegan, the foamy urine was decreasing, but when I started adding the oil pulling about 4 days ago, the foamy urine was dissolving rapidly.  In fact, yesterday and so far today, there has been zero foam!  I'll be taking a blood test in a few weeks so I'm very curious to see what the creatinine levels are.

Also, I used to see a dentist for blood in gums upon awakening... And he would fix the issue but it kept coming back.  Well, today, after 4 days of oil pulling there is no longer blood in my gums in the morning.  Moreover, it's turning my teeth super white!  Breath smells fresh too.

I really think part of my BP issues have been connected to bacteria in my mouth.  

Also, I'm not really concerned anymore about the next few weeks.  I'm thinking I'm gonna get through it with lesser and lesser withdrawls.

 

Another thing is that if you are not really hypertensive and they give you bp meds and they don't agree with you  that  will shake your system and do the oppisite effect. They will make your pressure go up. By the way, my wife was using coconut oil for gum inflammation and it's been helpful ( not for bp). I do hope you found the solution. Some people also use peroxide for gum and teeth rinsing. By the way ( if you don't mind me asking) what is your age?  That might be a contributing ( or transitory) factor as well.

Hi denys, well my gums are much better.  No more bledding gums.  

I'm 47 years old.  Too young for this BP issue.

Well, it seems I may have been too optimistic thinking I could skate past withdrawal at the 4-8 week mark.

I was feeling real good and then yesterday..  Bam... But I should have known as this is how it's happened in the past.  Right when I was feeling my best, I got hit with the withdwrawal.

So I started feeling some of the same withdrawal effects I felt at the 4-6 week mark in the past when I tried coming off the beta blockers.

it's not anywhere near as intense, but I can tell it's there.  If it was a 10 scale 6 weeks ago when I first got off the BBs, it's about a 3 right now. And today I started notcing a bit of that breathing issue coming back and a feeling of hollowness in my chest.  BP also started climbing up a bit so I'm back on the Nifedipine and Clonodine.. Which intensifed some of the symptoms almost instantly.

I need to get off all these FREAKING meds, but guess I'm gonna have to suffer through the next month of withdrawal before I try coming off the nefidipine again.

Oh and I also have a wonderful headache.  How fun is this.  Not only do I ahve to deal with the withdrawal from the BB, but I have to deal with the freaking side effects of the Nifedipine and Clonidine.

Again, it doesn't feel so bad as before, but I'm worried it's going to intensify in the coming week.

You might want to check Michael's Naturopathic Programs Blood Pressure Factors   herbal pills. That's more of a natural stuff and shouldn't cause those side effects ( again everybody's different but it's not a big pharma product and not addictive). Just beware that it doesn't work instantly, you might try to take 3-4 a day for a week or so before you see the results.  On the other hand I"m not sure whether those are available in UK. But you can order them from the US.  I'm trying them right now.

Hey Denys, how are they working for you thus far... would you please send me a private message.  it's a little difficult to have to dig through the messages to find your answer.

thanks

Matt

Hey, I don 't know how to send a private message on this blog. But yes, these  tabs work much softer than the chemicals. I take about three a day 2-3 hours apart with a meal. My bp is still kinda still jumpy but I feel better. Also, try to make some ginger tea with mint. Mint relaxes your body while ginger cleanses it from toxins. Get some fresh ginger root, cut a few small pieces, throw them into boiling water, add a few leaves of mint ( better fresh),  put it all into thermos. Drink  it in the first half of the day starting in the morning, on empty stomach.