Calcium to magnesium ratio

Marey, how else do we keep our bones strong?   Mag and calcium and Vit D3....I have used mag oil but I find it irritates my skin so using it less lately.   I sprayed it on my arthritic feet this morning before I put my socks on but hardly use it these days.     I don't soak in a bath, I couldn't get down in my tub and if I could I'd never get out, it's very low to the floor, old apt I live in, and then there is the fluoirde and chlorine in the water....so I shower pretty fast and not daily for sure.....J 

oh sorry joy....tackless of me to mention bathing to you ....but re: showers....have you considered a filter?

there is a small scale water purifer called adya but maybe for drinking only.

i've just had a 'big blue' water filter attached...so in principle i don't have to filter either my drinking or my shower water.  tho how do i know if its working i wonder !! ? am using on trust....maybe there's a way of testing that extraction is working?

Marey, fluoride shower filters cost about $100 here in the U.S.  my budget can't handle that, so I just don't take a lot of showers like I did all my life,,,,our city fluoridated in 2009....   Maybe  you don't have fluoirde in your water, do  you have a well water system?    I don't know how much of the UK fluoridates..

What about the calcium issue????

JOURNAL OF APPLIED NUTRITION, VOLUME 34, NUMBER 2, 1982

GUEST EDITORIAL

THE CALCIUM CONTROVERSY

Guy E. Abraham, M.D.*

It is often stated that large amounts of calcium are required for strong bones, to calm nerves and for other characteristics of good health. Some nutritionists recommend up to three grams of calcium a day to prevent calcium deficiency. The purpose of this editorial is to review some aspects of Human Evolution, Physiology, Biochemistry and Dietary Habits in order to clarify calcium requirements and its close relationship to intake of other nutrients, mainly magnesium.

EVOLUTIONARY CONSIDERATIONS

Over the past 6000 years or more man evolved in a magnesium and potassium-rich, but calcium and sodium-poor, environment. For survival, the human body had to develop efficient conserving mechanisms for sodium and calcium. To conserve sodium, the Zona Glomerulosa of the Adrenal Cortex secretes a very potent mineralocorticoid, Aldosterone, which increases sodium retention via the kidney 27. To conserve calcium, the skin developed a synthetic process that manufactures Vitamin D3 from a cholesterol derivative, under the influence of solar ultraviolet radiation. Vitamin D3 is then hydroxylated by the liver to 25-OH-D3. The kidney is the site of the most important step: 1-hydroxylation of 25-OH-D3 to generate 1, 25 (OH)2 D3, the most potent calcium-conserving substance16. It increases calcium and phosphate absorption in the small intestine and decreases calcium excretion in the urine:

PHYSIOLOGICAL CONSIDERATIONS

The 1-hydroxylase is located in the kidney as a mitochondrial enzyme. It is sensitive to intramitochondrial calcium and phosphate. Intromitochondrial accumulation of both calcium and phosphate depress the activity of 1-hydroxylase, thereby decreasing formation of 1, 25 (OH)2 D322.A low phosphate diet increases and a high phosphate diet depresses 1, 25 (OH)2 D3 production20.

Besides 1, 25 (OH)2 D3, there are two hormones that play an important role in calcium metabolism: Calcitonin (CT) and Parathyroid Hormone (PTH)3. Both hormones are sensitive to serum ionized calcium levels. An increase in serum ionized calcium results in stimulation of CT secretion and suppression of PTH secretion.

CT and PTH regulate skeletal turnover of calcium and availability of cytoplasmic calcium3. The major skeletal effect of PTH is to increase bone resorption by stimulating osteoclasts, thereby increasing mobilization of calcium from bone. PTH also favors cellular uptake of calcium by soft tissues and phosphate excretion by the kidney. CT has the opposite effect, that is, it increases deposition of calcium in the bone matrix and blocks cellular uptake of calcium by soft tissues. Magnesium suppresses PTH and stimulates CT secretion28, therefore favoring deposition of calcium in the bone and removal of calcium from soft tissues. Furthermore magnesium enhances calcium absorption and retention5, 12, whereas increasing calcium intake suppresses magnesium absorption2, 25.

BIOCHEMICAL CONSIDERATIONS

Calcium and magnesium are often antagonistic in their effect of biological reactions7. For example, the biosynthesis of both phospholipids and proteins involve enzymatic steps which have an obligatory requirement for magnesium and are calcium-inhibited. The glycolytic pathway contains five enzymatic reactions that have an absolute requirement for magnesium and require optimal magnesium/calcium ratio for peak performance.

In order for the cell to maintain the proper magnesium/calcium ratio, several levels of regulation are available, acting on the removal of calcium from the cytoplasm. One such mechanism is the ATP-dependant calcium pump in the cell membrane 9, 10. The other important mechanism is the transport of calcium inside the mitochondria. The mitochondria uptake of calcium is reversible if calcium concentrations in the microenvironment are kept below certain limits. Above these limits, calcification of mitochondria occurs with subsequent cellular death. In the presence of magnesium, the uptake of calcium by mitochondria can be slowed down. Since ATP utilization is magnesium-dependent, it becomes obvious that the calcium pump at the cell membrane is also magnesium-dependent. The generation of ATP itself through the glycolytic pathway is in part magnesium-dependent and inhibited by calcium.

DIETARY CONSIDERATIONS

Stable civilizations have arisen only when primitive hunting communities have learned to cultivate cereals, such as wheat, rice maize, millets, barley, oats and rye. In many rural areas, cereals provide more than 70% of the energy consumed9. Table I shows the magnesium and calcium concentrations in these staple foods. They contain two to eight times more magnesium than calcium, and as much as one thousand milligrams of magnesium could be consumed if two thousand calories were obtained from these sources. One may argue that dairy products contributed to most of the ingested calcium. This is unlikely since 50% of individuals tested so far show allergic reactions to dairy products and lactose intolerance is common in most ethnic groups, occurring in 70% of Black Americans and over 70% of Orientals, Jews, Arabs, Greeks, Japanese, Eskimos, Indians, Africans and Asians 23, 17, 13, 14, 15, 1, 24, 18, 8, 19 ,30, 31.

[Guy Abraham Calcium Controversy]

Considering that 99% of the total body calcium is located in the bones, it is not surprising that academic proponents of high calcium intake have used as an argument the possible role of calcium deficiency in osteoporosis 11, 4, 29. There is no evidence, however, to support this view. Osteoporosis is not more common in those parts of Asia and Africa where diets are relatively low in calcium (300-500 mg/day) than in Europe and North America where consumption of dairy products contributes to more than1000 mg of calcium/day When patients with severe osteoporosis were given massive doses of calcium they went into positive calcium balance, but radiographic studies revealed no changes in the osteoporotic process Where did that calcium go? Obviously into the soft tissues where it does not belong.

Calcium balance studies have indicated that man can adapt to relatively low calcium intake by increasing calcium absorption and decreasing urinary excretion10. There is not such a mechanism for magnesium26. The adaptation to low calcium intake is most likely via synthesis of 1, 25 (OH)2 D3 by the kidney. It was previously discussed that high intramitochondrial concentrations of phosphate and calcium in the kidney suppress the formation of 1, 25 (OH)2 D3 20, 22. Therefore, mechanisms that increase intracellular and intramitochondrial calcium would prevent adaptation to low calcium intake. Failure of the calcium-pump at the cell membrane and increased uptake of calcium by mitochondria are two such mechanisms which are both magnesium-dependent as previously discussed. Since a low phosphate diet increases formation of 1, 25 (OH)2 D3 20 and a high magnesium diet would keep calcium out of the mitochondria, it seems therefore that one approach to improving the adaptation to low calcium intake is to ingest a diet low in phosphate and high in magnesium. Such an approach to the management of osteoporosis would seem more appropriate than the ingestion of massive doses of calcium. The latter approach blocks magnesium absorption and creates a magnesium deficiency, conducive to a failure of the calcium- pump and intracellular accumulation of calcium in soft tissues that eventually leads to irreversible cell damage. Also, magnesium deficiency results in elevated PTH which prevents the utilization of the absorbed calcium for bone formation and favors soft tissue calcification.

Recent studies suggest that calcium requirements are increased by acid-ash, high- protein and high sulfur diet21. In order to increase the efficiency of the adaptation mechanism to low calcium intake, every attempt should be made to ingest foods containing a magnesium/calcium ratio of two or more, with neutral or alkaline ash, not excessive in phosphate, sulfur, proteins, refined sugar, fats and other substances that drain the body of both calcium and magnesium. Magnesium deficiency causes a reduced intestinal absorption of calcium and decreased serum ionized calcium.

Magnesium has a calcium-sparing effect and decreases the need for calcium.

Since magnesium suppresses PTH and increases CT, adequate magnesium intake would improve the phosphorous balance from a low phosphate diet by increasing phosphate absorption via the 1, 25 (OH)2 D3mechanisms and by preventing the PTH induced phosphaturia. Furthermore, a high magnesium intake would enhance calcium absorption by the 1, 25 (OH)2 D3mechanisms, increase serum ionized calcium, promote deposition of calcium in the bone matrix where it belongs and minimize cellular uptake and mitochondrial accumulation of calcium. )

With such an approach there would be no need for pharmaceutical companies to develop new and improved calcium blockers in the management of cardiovascular diseases, since magnesium works naturally to produce the same end result.

REFERENCES

1. Alzante, H. Gonzalez, H. and Guzman, J. “Lactose intolerance in South American Indians.” Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 22: 122, (1969).

2. Amiot, D., Hioco, D. and Durlach, J. “Frequence du deficit magnesique chez le sujet et dans diverses osteopathies.” J. Med. Besancon 5:371-378, (1969).

3. Aurbach, GD., Marx, S.J. and Spiegel, AM. ”Parathyroid Hormone, Calcitonin, and Calciferols.” In textbook of Endocrinology, Williams, RH. (Ed), Saunders Co., 922-1032, (1981).

4. Aviolo, LV. “Postmenopausal osteoporosis: prevention versus cure.” Fed. Proc. 40: 2418, (1981).

5. Briscoe, A.M. and Ragen, C. “Relation of magnesium on calcium metabolism in man.” Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 19: 296-306, (1966).

6. Bryan, W.T.K. and Bryan, M.P. ”Cytotoxic Reactions in the Diagnosis of Food Allergy.” Otol. N. Am. 4: 523-533, (1971).

7. Bygrave, F.L. “Cellular Calcium and Magnesium Metabolism.” In An Introduction to Bio-inorganic Chemistry. Williams, D. R. (Ed) Thomas, 171-184, (1976).

8. Cook. G.C. and Kajubi, SK. “Tribal incidence of lactase deficiency in Uganda.” Lancet l: 725, (1966).

9. Davidson, S., Passmore. R., Brock, J.F. and Truswell, AS. “Human Nutrition and Dietetics.” Churchill Livingstone, 166-175, (1979).

10. Davidson, S., Passmore, R., Brock, J.F. and Truswell, A.S. “Human Nutrition and Dietetics.” Churchill Livingstone, 90-106. (1979).

11. Draper, H.H. and Scythes, C.A. ”Calcium, phosphorous, and osteoporosis.” Fe. Proc. 40: 2434, (1984).

12. DuRuisseau, J.P. and Marineau, J.M. “Osteoporose medication calcique et magnesienne,” See Int’l Sympos on Magnesium, 223-226, (1971/1973).

13. Gilat, T., et. al. “Lactase deficiency in Jewish communities in Israel.” Am J. Digest. Dis. 16:203, (1971).

14. Gilat. T., et. al “Lactose intolerance in an Arab population.” Am. J. Digest. Dis. 16:203, (1977)

15. Gudmand-hoyer, and F., Jarnum, S. “Lactose malabsorption in Greenland Eskimos.” Acta Med. Scand. 186:235, (1969).

16. Holick, M.F. and Clark, MB. “The photobiogenesis and metabolism of Vitamin D.” Fed. Proc. 37: 2567-2574, (1978).

17. Huang, S.S. and Bayless, T.M. “Milk and lactose intolerance in healthy orientals.” Science 160: 83, (1968).

18. Johnson, J.D., et. al. “Lactose malabsorption among the Pima Indians of Arizona.” Gastroenterology 73: 985, (1977).

Now, here's where it gets FASCINATING...

o what your doctor doesn't know is that the Thyroid is RULED by the mineral ratio of Calcium/Potassium. You do NOT solve a Thyroid problem with Hormones... You correct the mineral imbalances...

o what your doctor ALSO doesn't know is that Hormone-D CAUSES Renal Potassium Wasting... Hmmmmm...

o And furthermore, what your doctor doesn't know is that supplemental-D, unopposed by animal-based Retinol, will CAUSE a depletion of Vitamin-A in the Liver. This then leads to a depletion in the production of Ceruloplasmin, a key transport protein, which makes Copper bio-available. 

OK, so let's review...

o Hormone-D CAUSES a rise in Blood Calcium...

o Hormone-D CAUSES a LOSS of Potassium via the Kidneys...

o Hormone-D, therefore, CONTRIBUTES to (CAUSES) Hypothyroidism BECAUSE It sends the Ca/K ratio into ORBIT, thereby SLOWING DOWN the Thyroid function... 

o Hormone-D CAUSES a depletion of Ceruloplasmin, which makes Copper "deficient" and thus contributes to Hashimoto's which is affected greatly by a lack of Copper... 

Ca/K on an Ideal HTMA should be 4 parts Ca to 1 part Potassium (K). Most people have Calcium that is 3-5X Ideal, and a Potassium (K) of between 1-3. More Hmmmmmm...

We have had numerous folks on MAG and in our practice recover from their "permanent" Thyroid issues with optimal diet, supplementation and "Stress!" management, and correction of their Adrenal dysfunction that is at the base of the problem...

Well, alrighty then... I hadn't pieced it ALL together until this outstanding thread challenged me to do so... Many thanks for that!F Report about 7 hour

Marey--Interesting!  Thanks for posting!  --Suzanne

welcome!

what did you conclude? for me happy to take magnesium....but perhaps i don't need extra calcium?

nor perhaps vithormone D.....surprisingly. per blood test my vit d was ok anyway

any news of your results? you ok? xxxxxx

nor perhaps vithormone D.....surprisingly. per blood test my vit d was ok anyway

any news of your results? you ok? xxxxxx

I guess that I conclude from your article that the ratio of mag to cal should be closer to 2:1 (rather than the reverse, which we are always told).  I think that I'll keep with the higher Vit D3 because it helps with so many issues besides bone health (over 200 epigenetic processes), including autoimmune issues and respiratory infections/flu.  I need all of the immune help that I can get. Seems like if we are getting mag, some calcium, D3, and K2, and getting exercise, our bones should be okay (I'm hoping--and mine seem fine so far). We do need SOME calcium though, and even those in other countries with low calcium seem to be getting at least 4-500mg of it from their diets.  Are you getting it in your diet (sardines with bones in, for example)?  I do take a calcium supplement, but only once per day (500mg) and not twice. I don't do dairy products because of allergy. I just read a new study from the Norway (?) that found that women who do heavy dairy have weaker bones and die earlier than other women.  This is contrary to all that we have been told. I saw references to this study in several places this week.   

I did meet with my doctor who will be doing additional testing due to all of my positive autoimmune findings. She will do blood sugar tests, blood pressure tests, 24 hour adrenal test, etc. to see if I am showing any signs of illness beyond the antibodies.  Thanks for asking!  I'll let you know if I find anything else out. Not sure whether my doctor knows what to make of all of the autoantibodies, though.

Thanks so much. Entirely agree that pasteurised milk is not a viable source of calcium. Wonder about the raw? I do enjoy almond nuts ....and sometimes almond milk (tho still prefer yummy coconut milk I make myself).

Glad you're ok ...be wary of looking for things and the mindset that creates. You are doing so well...is there a functional practioner nearby?

Would you consider returning to the seal and heal gut principles? That would stop this anti body formation. Why did you stop L Glutamine?

My last comment went to moderation, so luckily I copied it before pressing reply and looked it over to remove the likely words triggering the moderation!

I'll bet the problem with milk is the processing and pasteurising--does not make intuitive sense that raw, grassfed milk would cause the same health problems as was found in that study, though milk is made to make little cows grow rapidly, and that could be one remaining issue perhaps with both natural and processed milk.  I have read milk can be an issue associated with prostate cancer for that reason--it supports rapid cell division, which works for little cows but isn't good for prostates.  Wouldn't think that would be an issue normally unless one overdoes it, though the studies likely haven't separated processed and unprocessed milks.  

I am seeing a naturopath who ordered all of the tests that found all of the autoantibodies, though we won't go over the results until early December. I was concerned enough with the results that I made a separate appt. with my regular doctor. I am experiencing some episodes of low blood sugar, so could be related to the autoantibodies to my adrenal cortex or pancreas, since I eat well and exercise.  My low blood pressure and low blood sugar could be related to autoantibodies to my adrenal cortex and the fatigue and brain fog I experience.  So anyway, my conventional doc wants to see what the actual readings are on some of these things with 24 hour testing, etc. I am not eager to do some of these tests (like a 24 hour blood sugar testing)!  

My recent test results seem to indicate no issues with permeability with my bowel, and equivocal results with my blood brain barrier. Not sure how I could have so many autoimmune issues without bowel permeability, so anxious to see how my naturopath reads my test results.  I used to take some L. glutamine, but the last time I took it I took too high a dose and felt weird all day.  Probably would be okay with lower dose, but have felt that just eating really cleanly and taking all my other supplements might be enough(?) 

​Thanks for the inquiry.  I hope that you feel more energy soon with your low thyroid!  

thanks suzanne. i've put it down to

1/ having raw spinach in my smoothie....whilst not currently taking iodine (iron, selenium and zinc complete the protective combo to permit eating raw veg) due to following a new protocol. will tell you about that.

2/ i can't remember !! have to get back to you.....oh what was it? but i had a terrible day. then decided to enjoy it and just space out....no sweat... so am nice and relaxed now especially as had bit of a foot massage....don't you just love those!!?

Agree with you about milk ...wouldn't mind trying raw cows but it would only to have been in a cup of coffee and i'm not really drinking that nowadays.

Your blood sugar........I know what thats about.... its the steroid....so sorry but its a classic side effect. ask joy...am sure she'll back me up.

well how can there be a test saying you have no LG ?

The evidence is there that you do...those auto ants...  and again the wretched s's are going to be behind that too.

Hey why not try again with L. glutamine...no longer a trigger word....yeh!!  Its going down a storm over on the bowel section. Try a smaller dose twice a day maybe?   I'm having a go too...but stopped after 2 days. Maybe this is my no2 cause of a bad day? The fact that I stopped it before the repair was complete. So am going to persist ...Please join me...it only takes a few weeks and is pretty miraculous it seems. Just a tsp twice a day....in a smoothie?

Thanks for the thoughts, Marey!  I may look into starting the L glut. again.  

I remember one thing that the doctor said yesterday that was reassuring. She said that my c-reactive protein levels are so low that she doesn't suspect autoimmune disorders even though I have a bazillion autoantibodies showing up.  I looked it up and CRP does seem to be associated with active autoimmune illness.  Do you know what your levels are reading?  Mine were elevated but went down as soon soon after I started this nonprocessed, whole foods diet (autoimmune paleo)--so that would suggest that diet does impact our expression of and development into an autoimmune disorder.  Of course that doesn't explain why I still have the LS, but I'll take encouragement wherever I can get it that I'm not going to develop all of the other possible autoimmune illnesses that my bloodwork says I could! My Hashimoto's is in remission too, so I guess that something's working right!

I hope that you are feeling better soon with your autoimmune thyroid, too!  

--Suzanne

 

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL NEWS !!!!!!!!!!

I am so dleighted for you I'm waving around like a siren.

Yes celebrate that you're holding back something that you will now absolutely NOT manifest....no way ...no how (as you guys say...a turn of phrase which I rather like....yee how is another !!!!! Will that do ?).

No it won't do yet..........PARTY MASSIVE PARTY TO CELEBRATE.

Come on in everyone....we're having a party...we'll be dancing, swinging and singing when you come on over tonight !!!!

So its breakfast in America ..collect you in my fantasy RV  ...and on to the wilds....via Santa   Monica...to pick up Joy and away off we whizz........................... xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx               

Tee Hee

You're silly!  Thanks for the support!