Can you overdose on the injections

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hi I have just seen a hemotolgist privately as my GP refuses to give me injections earlier than 12 weeks and like so many others I am leading 2 lives first half after the jab I am back ! Then inthe saecond 6 weeks I feel old tired and canot cope with the fatigue,terrible pains in my feet ans lowere legs 

brain fog , . I feel this is going to cost me my job

any way he said that there are no long term studies to say what the side effects are of having it sooner 

so that's why its not given 

also that my levels are high now on the jabs so I alledly don't need it 

he could not tell me why I have these symptoms and have high levels

he and my GP just say these must be something else wrong with me but make no attempt over last 2 years to find ou what it is which has fighter need me 

would welcome any advice or comments , I have secured some of the medicine which I may inject as I am so desperate to feel better 

thanks

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  • Posted

    Hi June Rose:

    i'm so sorry to hear of your dilemma. i understand the frustration it's likely to cause since you have the solution to hand: my symapthies to you.

    i'm having help from an Environmnrtal Medical practitioner who specialises in ME/CFS. in her book she comments on the favourable outcome of a study conducted in 1973 on 28 ppl with fatigue; it was a double blind cross over trial - the conventional gold standard of research.

    she comments: ''as the 1973 study indicated, it is not worth bothering to measure the blood levels of b12 to moniter treatment. these are irrelevant. the idea is to get high levels - that is in excess of 2000 pmol/L''

    she goes on to say ''vit. b 12 has no know toxicity & b12 surplus to requirement is simply passed out in the urine (which may discolour pink). it is theoretically possible to be allergic to b12, but in the thousadns of injections i have sanctioned, this has only ever occured after several injections: it caused local itching, swelling & redness (although the commonest cause of redness & swelling is poor injection technique)''. she goes on: (Brit humour) ''as a colleague commented , the only way you could kill yourself with b12 would be to drown in the stuff''.

    hope this is helpful: btw her book is called Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - it's mitochrondria not hypochondria''.

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  • Posted

    My reading indicates you cannot do yourself harm with excess B12 - you just wee it out because absorbtion is minimal.  You need to get enough B12 (and iron tablets) to make you feel well, and more frequent jabs may well solve the problem.  My GP eventually agreed to this.   If your GP won't help, buy it privately and get a friend (retired nurse, vet?) to jab you, and don't tell your GP.  If that doesn't fix it pretty quickly, it clearly isn't just B12 deficiency, so insist on further investigations at the expense of the NHS.  These days you have to look after yourself!
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    • Posted

      Thankyou I do have nurse friends who will jab me and intend to start 6 weeks after my next jab in November

      I bought it in Spain it's colabain same as they use I think at the surgery and if it works I will try to set up a internet supply from them or I will be visiting Spain for my holidays

      you mentioned iron tablets would they help ?

      my GP is not interested in sending me for tests so I will have to Chang GP if it comes to that she makes me wait till I say I will pay they don't offer anything except blood tests 

      in every other respect they seem to look after me but just not on this and I don't know why as it leaves me open to viruse going ,just got over a month long chest infection , it makes you want to give up at times ,but this forum does help as I know I am not alone ,

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    • Posted

      Low B12 interferes with the processing of iron.  Iron is involved in delivering oxygen to your whole body.  So shortage of B12, leads to iron anaemia, and anemia starves you of oxygen.  The damage to your brain and nervous system can be permanent.  Once you get B12 jabs, you can start re-building your iron levels (red cell count, haemoglobin and ferritin).  So taking an iron supplement aids this process.  I thought it was pretty standard for GP's to prescribe iron in the early stages of B12 treatment - am I wrong?

      I need foot surgery, but am being denied it because my B12 and ferrtin are low and might impede healing.  So I can understand that you might be vulnerable to infection - as well as breathless.

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    • Posted

      That's interesting , I have never been asked to take iron  but I will get some is there any particular brand or does that's best 

      sorry to hear yr not getting the opp though nothing seems to surprise me these days. Would you know if a multi vitimin w old help as well thanks

       

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    • Posted

      hi June Rose et al........

      plsd. to hear you've come to a decision - that's half the battle. it helps keep 'hope' on the horizon. if it doesn't work , no harm done. would love to know how it goes for u and would be interested in ordering b12 via you - if/when you get it organised.

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    • Posted

      hi bluemaran:

      sorry to hear you need foot surgery - hope it's a minor intervention. plsd. to hear your GP is sensible enough to delay same till your levels are normal. a course of high dose Vit C combined with Zinc always help escalate healing & prevent infection. best started well before surgery.

      re: b12/Ferritin/HB. i'm wondering the relationship between the 3. my HB levels are v. high (14.00) but with low Ferritin. any comments? btw my HB has always been around 10. 00, but started eating Fish last year.

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    • Posted

      Hi Caitlin,

      Yes, just minor surgery (an old foot fracture which went unnoticed and set wrong), but I work outdoors and being lame is a nuisance.  Oh, it was me who warned my podiatric surgeon about my bloods, otherwise they'd have gone ahead and I'd have had to live with the consequences of poor healing.  See what I mean about "looking after yourself"?

      I agree about the Vit C and Zinc.  Vit C is often prescribed alongside Iron (aiding absorption). Haemoglobin indicates the iron that's reached your blood, red cell count the number of red cells in your blood to carry oxygen around, and ferritin is the level of stored iron in your body.

      We may have similar issues: B12 addressed (tick), iron intake good (tick), haemoglobin and red cell count normal (tick), but ferritin still low.  In women of my age, this is often blamed on heavy perimenopausal periods.  However, I'd not had a period for 12 months before I was diagnosed B12 deficient.  My periods had actually stopped because I was "run down" due to low B12, and started again, regular as clockwork, as soon as I got B12 jabs!  The nurse said this was not unusual.

      I had wrongly assumed that I felt bad because I was menopausal (the symptoms are very similar to B12 deficiency and anaemia), and I wonder how many other women make the same assumption.  My vigilant GP (now sadly retired) thought I warranted a blood test - et voila - I am NOT menopausal, and still in running order at 58!

      So why the low ferritin?  Could it be just the cumulative effect of late menopause?  If so, why didn't it correct itself in the 12 month break?  Maybe because I've tested low positive for PA, resulting in low B12, it will take time to restore my ferritin levels, that's all.  

      Hence my determination to get a good B12 level established while taking plenty of iron.  As therapys go, it's cheap as chips for the NHS.  I want to be over 500.  If that doesn't fix it, we will know my ferritin is leaking away somewhere, possible from the bowel, and that will get me the gastroscopy my new GP felt I should have.  It's costly, and the gastro man won't do it until I've worked my way through lots of iron tablets to prove I have a problem - which is reasonable.

      Once I knew I had low B12 and began to talk to other people, I discovered how terribly common it is in older people.  This may be why some GP's can be dismissive.  They insist on the "one size fits all" jab, whether you improve or not, and don't listen to your assessment of your overall sense of "wellness". 

      Long-term low B12 is implicated in senile dementia and loss of mobility, and a national programme of B12 testing and correction for the over-50's might well show a significant reduction in dementia rates in the long term.  The PA Society seem to working towards this.

      The summary is: if your B12 level is over 500, you take iron tablets (with Vit C if recommended), and you have no other obvious cause for low ferritin - and it STILL fails to normalise,  it needs investigation.  I expect that I won't need anything further, but I'm bearing it in mind.   : )   

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    • Posted

      Hi Bluemaran

      thank u, thank u , thank u for such a comprehensive & clear response - amazing??? makes it SOOOOOO clear for me. i have a bad dose of the ''foggy brain'' syndrome........possible explained maybe by PA. we shall wait & see, but thank u for such auricle standard info.

      plsd. to hear it's 'minor' surgery. hope you won't be off your feet for too long, if at all? hope too, your get the Gastroscopy if indicated?

      i'm fascinated to hear your not men/P. @ 58 - most unusual. guess it 'runs' in the family or/and probably the rewards of healthy outdoor lifestyle.

      must say i was taken aback to read, that your Pod. Surgeon might have noticed your deficient bloods - would have been the exception rather than the rule. in these times of 'bank balance' medicine & the nursing care of the 'e-notes' , one needs to be on their 'medical know how toes'??

      btw, do u know if there's a correlation between a low Ferritin & possible PA? i'm a tad concerned that my GP's more concerned with her balance sheet than good doctoring, so i feel i need to be informed.

      with thanks

      caitlin

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    • Posted

      My pleasure.  The odd thing is that the late men-p is not in the family.  But I'm a product of the swinging 60's -  (the Pill, no kids) and a very outdoors/active life.  I detect that my "condition" is almost an affront to my (female) GP - how dare I not conform - and they'd be more comfortable if I stopped living, shrivelled up, got old and stopped being a nusiance!

      I'd expect poor readings of haemo before poor ferritin.   Like a car: you put iron/fuel in and drive around.  As long as your tank aint leaking, you get the mpg you expect to get.  But if there's a bit of a leak in the system (or the car needs tuning), the mpg goes down and the tank empties fast.

      And yes, I agree about the danger of GPs balancing their books first, and treating their patients second.........

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    • Posted

      Hi bluemaran:

      thank u for further enlightment. had to giggle @ the car & fuel analegy. think my body thinks it's a 'morris minor' - not goin anywhere fast. no doubt the 'fuel' needs upgrading too.

      yes, i can imagine your GP being non plussed that you are not conforming to the 'one size fits all' - most contrary - well done you? keep them on their toes?

      Caitlin.

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    • Posted

      It's become a bit of a grudge match: Can I get past 60 before the menopause, and demonstrate that women don't have to wear beige or become invisible at 50!?  It seems obvious that, as well as having smaller famillies, started later, retiring later and living longer, we should be re-writing the book about menopause.  (Don't start me on the insanity of marriage, or we'll be here all night!).  We are no longer having 14 kids between 16 and 30, before dying in childbirth!  Passing the 100 year flag is now common, so why the hell should we be condemned to becoming shrivelled old crones at the half-way mark - or indeed - ever!  I feel a deep urge to "kick ass" when the date on my birth certificate determines how I'm regarded.  I am "how" I really am.  And I will NOT lie down and accept feeling like a "bag of c--p" for the convenience of the NHS when I was a fresh as a daisy just 5 years ago.

      Actually, the more frequent (probably smaller) B12 jabs seem to be rather suiting me - I'm much feistier than I have been of late.  I bit the head off a police officer, snarled at a planning consultant, and froze a doctor's receptionist all in the course of today.  Ah - yes, a definite improvement! : )

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    • Posted

      Oh fantastic  , oh to be back like that again , I used to be feisty as well but not now ,well mabye a little bit in the first half of the jab , can you say what u have and how often cos it seems to make sense to keep the levels constant 

      oh how I long to feel in charge of my emotions again !

       

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    • Posted

      bluemaran / june rose: u have me in stitches visualizing the bewildered Doc., marriage madness, planet polluters & 'double take' receptionist.

      plsd. to hear that the power dynamic isn't always in the Doc ascendancy - makes for a pleasant change. it sounds a acse of 'no contest' tween you & Doc bluemaran. btw, what does she say re your non M/P @ 58? does she consider u a bit of a conundrum?

      btw, the Environmental Doc who suggested that i have the B injections suggests: '' having subcutaneous injections of a half millilitre of b12 daily to start with & to adjust the frequency according to response. that approach leaves one in charge to go with the needs of the body (rather than the needs of Doc & Surgery). it avoids the dips & prevents 'depletions'. she says to use Insulin syringes. so, i guess the ideal would be to have your injections from GP & have your own supply to top up in between times.

      june rose: i do hope your GP gets a move on and helps you through this difficult patch. it's most frustrating when they faff around leaving one's health to unnessarily deteriorate....aaarg???

      Cait

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