Cervical Spondylosis ruminations

Just a quicky on the Yankee thing. The Yan is an english interpretation of the Dutch 'Jan' , and the Kee is supposed to be the smelly cheese. The Dutch apparently called all English 'Jan' (John) just as we call all Germans 'Hans', or all Spanish 'Juan'. Thus Jankee was a derogatory term for the English colonists. Ring any bells ? or am I going on about this a bit much?

There's always Wikipedia!

Hiya Gerry.... :jester:

I will go look it up on 'Wikkie' at another time.... Or i will call my Dad and ask him.....

I have just spent the last couple of hours helping my daughter do her 'homework' for her Child Care traineeship.....She is 18....and STILL leaves everything till the last possible minute...... :yuk: :huh: :yikes: Silly Mum get roped into helping her finish so she can go to bed..... On the upside, I now know all about why some Hindu's don't eat aminal products.....and warning signs to look for if a child is being abused.....!!!! (Yes...2 totally strange subjects she had to finish work on)

I've not had a good pain day today.....and my head is pounding.... :wah:

I hope your sunday is a pleasant one!!!!! Thank God mine is nearly over..... :zzz:

Take gentle care of YOU.... :hug: :jester:

Jas..xx.. :fairy:

Hi Jas,

Sorry to hear about the headaches. I posted some stuff ages ago, before you joined us...Cervical Spondylosis Headache Tips. Don't know if you've already seen them, but hope you might find them helpful. I've always reckoned that if I can lose the headache, the rest is easier to manage. I have to say I haven't had my usual quota of headaches recently, even my thursdays have improved...and that may all be down to the new pillow!

It's almost like I'm waiting for a relapse just so I can say it was just another blind alley...coz that's what I'm used to. Not so. However, this doesn't help your head so I'll just wish you well til it passes.

Gerry

Hiya Gerry.... :jester:

I was just thinking about you and hoping you are doing ok...... :ok:

If you are busy working lots.... :run: :steam: :puff: :artist: then that is great..... but if you are not and are having a difficult time :doctor: :weird: :wah: :monster: I am sending you hugs :hug:

If you have gone on a holiday :bus: :ufo: :tennis: :zen: :earth: then i hope you are enjoying yourself.... :ok:

Missing your banter in here.... :thepost:

Jas..xx.. :wings:

Hi FB. Still here. Had to retreat into the bunker for a while due to hard work and sore shoulder. Just popping up for air. I've been sneaking the occasional look at what's been going on ( behind my back !), and, to be honest, not feeling compelled to respond to everything has been a bit of a break for me. This site can really get to you!!!. Anyway, here's the minutes of my last meeting with myself (I'm currently the controversial Chair of a small housing co-op, so forgive my self-indulgence).

Matters Arising:

1: Pillow report and recommendations.

2: Discussion on the nature of pain.

Pillow Report:

In a nutshell, great for keeping mugginess and headaches at bay...Not so sure about it's effect on radial aches (shoulder, arms etc). I can honestly say that, so far, I haven't had a wipe-out headache day...and that is a big plus. However, I did aggravate my shoulder (by way of neck) at work and the pillow doesn't seem to offer any relief here. Whose to say, it might have hurt more if I wasn't using it. Don't know!

So, good for headaches is good enough for me. A post analysis suggests that the shape of the pillow and the position it forces you to sleep in, does the work which would normally be the job of the neck muscles (when asleep) thus leading to stiffness and headaches. Is it possible that these muscles usually overcompensate for the neck relaxing whilst asleep, in an effort to protect the injured neck?Also, this is my first proper cervical pillow. There might be a better product out there. After all these years, finding the perfect pillow should make me feel like a right mug....but, where there's Amazon...there's hope.

The nature of Pain:

This is just an exploration of the concept of pain. I've read a lot of social history, Im an addict. In my mind, what happened before tells me what will happen tomorrow (Back to the Future!). I'm always amazed how little coverage was given to personal suffering ( considering gory executions, battlefield wounds, diseases etc ) even in the chronicles of witnesses. In fact, there was a general contempt for the processes of injury and pain. It seems that pain and suffering were assumed to be part of everyday life and any exploration of this process was put down to \"fate\", \"God's will\", etc. and there was no particular need to explain further and it certainly didn't warrant making a big noise about. I suppose that, by the time you'd had your first toothache, you quickly became aware that no-one was really interested and that you just had to get on with it.

Compare that to todays concepts. We are led to believe that pain is, more or less , a thing of the past. Our first thought, naturally, with any injury, is \"what pill do I take to get rid of the pain\", but only because this option is available to us.In a way, we are by-passing what should be our first thought \"I might have no remedy for this pain...so how do I handle it?\". This is often the case with chronic conditions where we know (but still hope otherwise) that the pills don't always work.

It seems, that the availability of possible relief has duped us into a kind of false sense of security...get rid of pain...get rid of problem. We have promoted pain to the top of the list of must-do's....perfectly understandable. However, pain is not an entity, or an injury. It is a neurological reminder to the brain that some injury needs to be dealt with (something our ancestors probably understood better than us ). Conquering the pain doesn't neccessarily deal with the cause (I'm just exploring here..I know how good it feels when the pain goes).

The point I'm trying to make is that , in the unenlightened past, cultural pressures forced people to relegate their concept of pain to social irrelevance, and, in doing so, they adopted a more resilient attitude to it than we are capable of today with our seemingly easy access to relief. We read

Hiya Gerry.... :jester:

I'm sorry you have had trouble with your shoulder...Hope its feeling better!!!

Great to hear that your pillow is working for you!! I know mine has helped reduce the times i wake up with stiffness, so thats a plus.

You have given me food for thought in your ruminations about pain..... I know that for myself, I have been starting to realise that meds are just a bandaid and a mask for the pain...I try to cope for as long as i can during the day without taking meds.....I wait until i can't take it anymore....but sometimes i feel like...why am I waiting???? It feels like i am punishing myself when i put up with pain when i know i can get some kind of relief with meds.....

Anyway...Take care...Deb..xx.. :wings:

Exactly the same for me! Maybe I'm just trying to convince myself otherwise. If nothing else, it's an interesting mental exercise. Here goes...

Pain thresholds: I'm probably preaching to the converted here, but there will always be someone new come along who still needs to figure what's going on. It took me long enough to grasp even a minimal understanding of the mechanics involved....it's good to share.

Pain is a neurological signal from an injury, to the brain, which demands a reaction, namely, that the injury be treated and repaired. It is a simple uncomplicated system which can be tolerated and acted on, whereby, we know that repairing the injury will also negate the painful signal. The pain will vary in direct relation to our ability to tolerate it and it's own pressing need to be registered in the brain and possibly assume priority over other mental distractions. It will almost always demand priority. When we react, properly, and treat the injury, we know that our toleration levels will increase in relation to our expectations of the known healing process. Our bodies naturally provide the chemicals to achieve this, so that the healing process at the point of injury takes priority as the painful signal recedes ( I just like typing!!).

Nowadays, we can take meds to mask the pain and allow the healing to kick in sooner. For good or bad, in the long term, the benefits of this kind of intervention are debateable. What we should be vigilant about is the possibility, in the long term, of negating our natural responses to injury through overuse of synthetic substitutes, which seem to do the job quicker. A good comparison here would be heroin addiction and the withdrawal process, which must take place to return the body to it's normal pain toleration levels.

Some chronic painful conditions, however, do not follow these rules. With c/s, or sciatica, for instance, what we get is a nervous system malfunction! The actual nerve is being interfered with at the point of injury (the neck or lower back), but the signal it sends to the brain is that a shoulder or a leg is injured. There is actually nothing wrong with the shoulder or leg. That nerve isn't capable of sending a signal to say it is being pinched in the neck....it is a dedicated nerve which can only report on the shoulder...therefore it screams that the shoulder is injured. The actual nerves which are dedicated to the neck don't feel the need to report back on the neck injury, because, unless the neck is seriously aggravated, they are not programmed to report minor dysfunctions.

Thus the confusion of referred aches and pains, and thus the lowering of toleration levels...simply because we can't recognise the process as we would with a straightforward injury/pain signal/ healing scenario. It's a bit like an irrational anxiety creeps into the priocess which, because we can't see how to fix it, allows our negative overview to prosper.

In reality, a pinched nerve, although painful, is not causing or reporting any real damage. In my warped mind this suggests that we should deal with it using the same irrational logic and try to dismiss it's persistence by recognising it's non existance (tricky one that). However, the reactions of the surrounding muscles and tissue (these must react to the false signal...they don't know it's false!) at the referred injury point can lead to cyclical spasms and inflammed tissue (such as frozen shoulder). What's really happening is the natural healing processes have become the problem themselves, by reacting to a false signal, and the only way to stop the cycle is to prevent the nerve from being pinched in the first place.

I used to experience a lot of lower back pain (just as well this site wasn't running then!) mostly from working at a low level or gardening etc. I was completely laid up on several ocassions...couldn't move. I haven't had this problem for about 4 years, because of two things which helped (beginn

hi everyone, i was reading flutterbyes post. i remember the advice i got from my consultant at the pain clinic. i was doing what you do jas, i waited until i really needed the meds, but i got told off, what you are supposed to do is keep your meds topped up for maximum effect, because the longer you leave it the less effective your pain meds are.i have noticed that the more meds i take the worse my pain seems to be, when the meds wear off.

Hi Chris

I think you've just highlighted a big issue. When you say the pain seems worse when the meds wear off, it immediately flags up the thought that perhaps the meds aren't reducing the pain...maybe they're raising and lowering your toleration levels . The meds help in releasing natural chemicals which raises our tolerance by masking the pain, but the downside is that our resources of pain inhibiting or tolerance raising chemicals are limited and at some point the body must re-establish a balance. The big question for me here is ' can our tolerance be raised voluntarily, thus releasing the same chemicals as when we take pills or even, as when we sleep'. I can feel my hair turning grey as I post!

Hiya Gerry... :jester: & Chris..... :cheers:

I have already figured out that the more pain meds i take, the more my body needs to ease the pain .... It took me quite a while to figure this all out, but i have been really trying to listen to my body.... :zen: I think because headaches are one of the worst side effects i have from CS, I was taking a lot of meds to cope with them...but these days i try to wait and see how it progresses during the day...I feel that when i take too much meds, I can get rebound headaches from the meds....so its really a vicious cycle for me.

I will come back tomorrow and write more....Its late at night here and im exhausted....chat soon...Jas..xx.. :wings:

HIya Gerry...Its been over a month now....I hope you are well and too busy being well to come in here..... :D (But i do miss your posts... )

Love Jas..xx.. :wings:

Hello Everyone.

Seasons greetings to all. Hope everyone is as well as can be expected.

I think this is the first anniversary of the ruminations and, althought it's been in hibernation for some time, I thought it would be nice to resurrect it. I opted out at a certain point (apologies if I left anything unfinished) because of various issues....ongoing dental work, details unnecessary, pain in shoulder and financial survival issues. Priorities change. That's life. I've popped my head in ocassionally to see what's going on and it seems like business as usual.

Some changes have occurred in my c/s situation, so I thought I'd relate the experience. Any feedback is entirely at your own risk! Back in May 09, a pain developed in my shoulder and down back of arm (a bit like when you knock the funny bone in elbow)...might have mentioned this before. It appeared after I had plastered a wall, something I'm not really used to, and I thought it would disappear after a few days. It didn't. It lasted 5 months. It wasn't a frozen shoulder....I know that one where you can't raise it above shoulder height etc. I still had full movement with it, and the movement didn't hurt. Where it did hurt, or at least increase in intensity was when I lay down to sleep (had to put arm above and behind head for any relief) or when I was driving (it would just get gradually worse...5 miles and stop! ). I was taking Diclofenac, but they were pretty useless.

Anyway, about 2 months ago, my doctor (new) gave me a referral to a physiotherapist and I got an appointment in 3 weeks. In that time, strangely, the pain in shoulder and arm subsided and resolved itself into a painless stiff numb hand, with the middle finger dropping down and very little power in the hand generally. The physio looked at this, she was very good...you'll be surprised to hear me say, checked all reflexes and enquired thoroughly about the history and circumstances. I held nothing back, like we don't!, and she figured it was a classic symptom of trapped nerve in neck, c5/c6, due to c/s . She then fast-tracked me for a second opinion, to a 2nd physio, one week later, and she concluded the same. The outcome is that I've been booked in for an MRI scan (my first) on 2nd Jan. I know a lot of you have mentioned the hand thing before, pins and needles (which I don't get, just numbness) etc, but this is the first time I've experienced hand problems after 30 years of c/s.

On the plus side, there is little or no pain and, strangely, less actual neck trouble (headaches, stiffness), as though the focus has shifted to the hand. This is good, but is a problem for my work as there is only so much I can do left-handed. Also, I think it will be good for me to have the problem recorded on paper...when it comes to dealing with any future complications, work disability, referrals to specialists etc. I'm already aware of the possible invasive treatments and I'm not really interested in taking risks if I think I can manage otherwise.

Anyway, 'nough about me for now. Xmas greetings to Em, Chris, Jas, Mike and all in the c/s club, and hope your'e all doing well.

Gerry :xmastree: :bubbly:

wow so nice to see you again gerry i thought we had lost you. sorry to hear about how your problem with your shoulder and arm. i have recently had an mri on my right shoulder to see what is happening , i have the numbness and almost contracting of my fingers. i have the report at my gp's that i havent got round to picking up yet so it will be interesting to see what they have said. have you been in contact with flutterbye she is doing well after her op and is getting back to her old life still rather tender but better than she was. em pops up now and again but i must say i miss the old crowd, and banter. well i wish you all a merry xmas and a very happy new year xxxxx chris

Hi Everyone.

Back again. I haven't forsaken the community. It's just events took a turn and I needed to think it out before posting. I think I mentioned the shoulder pain and hand numbness (classic symptoms of c/s ) before. Well, because the numbness is so apparent, I got to see the Physio at St. Annes Hosp and thence to MRI scan and thence to Neurosurgeon at UCLH. The appointment with the Neuro is next monday (15th March...the Ides of March!!!!) and I'm completley open minded about any outcome. Following my previous experiences with GPs, Physios and Neuros I have to say that, so far, in this instance, I have been treated like royalty....both Physios were excellant.. maybe a result of the fact that the problem is \"obvious\", which was never really the case before. I got copies of Physio's report and MRI report. I also got the MRI DVD to deliver by hand to the Neuro and I was able to copy this to my PC and study the MRI images in detail. Very interesting...if a bit gruesome!

It's odd, but I have felt relieved of a lot of anxiety / frustration since this recent process began. Mostly because I've trusted and respected the attention given to me...previously I had always sensed a disbelief with the professionals (as most of my previous posts will testify). This doesn't really help the c/s much, but it does put me in a better frame of mind to deal with it....very important. I know the Neuro won't be offerring me a \"miracle cure\" but at least I should get the options spelt out and recorded. Ultimately, any decision on any action will be my decision, once I know all the facts and options.I'll report later.

Besides all that, I can't let this opportunity for a rant go by without posting some new theory on the shortcomings of society in general in dealing with c/s sufferers. Here I go again.....

The Twilight Zone: I'll explain......

For many, many, many years I have tried to get the best out of myself, despite the c/s. I'd even say that I have exceeded myself way beyond my limited expectations....if only to distract myself from dwelling on the aches and pains. For good or bad...I don't know. I may have exaccerbated the problem...I don't know. Also, and just as important, I have had to purposefully ignore a lot of critism about how I went about living and working, which might have seemed odd to someone not realising the problems I was trying to deal with, day by day. To me, I am an overachiever, considering the limitations.

Viewed from the perspective of someone else, who can't see ( despite being told ) or understand my c/s problem, it probably looks like I'm a serial whingeing underachiever. Maybe it looks like an excuse to just be lazy...if only! I don't know. However, I am nearly always aware of a lack of believeability (subtext of disbelief) that prevents me from seeing eye to eye with the doubters. I sense this a lot and, consequently, I have undoubtedly retreated into semi-isolation to avoid having to confront the ignorance or vent my enfeebled anger at not being trusted. It seems to be accepable nowadays to not trust what you hear, even if you have no reason to distrust. I don't like my descriptions of my c/s problems being assessed in the same manner as a confidence trick.

This is what I mean by the Twilight Zone....always encountering ( or expecting to encounter ) a lack of understanding in the balance of expectations that people pour on each other. I think I've used up all my excuses and just find the process superficial, when all I really want is to know how to wake up tomorrow ache free. If that ever happens, then I'm more than prepared to re-enter society , on their terms (it seems this is the only accepable way). Until then...the Twilight Zone.

Rant over.

Gerry

My neck is quite sore and I have to go to work. My attitude has been too good lately and Im wondering how long I can go on and how bad this thing gets. If I continue to work in the same job, working on computers for a disability organization (cant you believe this!), will it make my condition worse. Perhaps someone can give me their views on this. I am so angry that I have been diagnosed with this chronic condition, Cervical Spondylosis!