confused about god..

George, the moderators will remove things well outside the topic, which is why I wrote that to Holly. Unless you can think of a way of tieing together the origins of the universe with pain in the groin postoperatively?

Hi Juliette, 

Yes indeed. I have no reason to be messing about in postoperative groin matters. I am in the forum because of prostate cancer. The groups I attend are prostate cancer and chatroom for general topics. At the top of this page on my syatem the address line reads home / dicussion forums / general / chatroom. If your address line is different wa had better take our contradictory information to the adminstrators to sort it out as it is very confusing for us. Poor Holly! she is a new comer and this cannot be helpful for her. I assume she is in distress over some mediical problem, her own or of a loved one We should sort this out for her first and for us as well. I am very glad you adressed your second concern note to me. That was very percipient. I look forward to hearing from you very  soon. Private message would stop us clogging this discussion. George

Hi George, Somehow I have gotten into another forum. It's because someone who went off topic on the hip replacement forum got shunted to general discussions. So now I am getting both it seems. Poor Holly will think I am bonkers. I don't want to get into questions about the existence of God because I am a Buddhist. Arguing or debating by kindle is a frustrating experience.

Hi, i'm on this forum because 18 months ago I was diagnosed with an eating disorder and I have a skin condition called vitiligo.

Thanks for your reply, much appreciated

Thank you juliette. That is most distressing for you. I quite understand. I hope Holly in not much troubled by this confusion. As you suggest she must have thought for a while we were bonkers and writing contradictoy rubbish to each other. I am glad you have been able to tell us how the situation arose. You can now bow out with honour and my respect. George

You are most welcome, Holly. It was a pleasure.

Please Juliette

Both George and Holly are in the right forum.  This is a "general chatroom" not the hip replacement, perhaps you've hit the wrong fourm?  Just sayin'

George, I am with you 100%.  If Juilette keeps on correcting everyone, she's clearly mixed up with the fourm she's in.  I think the MOD would be interested in this situation as Holly clearly is in the right place. 

Xx Frustrated

If anyone is receving notification emails from groups they have not joined it will be because a discussion they have posted in has been moved from one group to another. If this happens go to https://patient.info/forums/me/groups ; and click "Leave group" for the ones you wish to leave or do not want emails about.

Regards,

Alan

I'm afraid that link does not work, Alan. I've tried it three ways and get a not found response.

I'm with Jaguar, I don't get anything but that "not found" message.  Perhaps another one or is that word "and" supposed to be highlighted?

Hi Tina, that is a good clear point to start from. The God of the Bible is knowable to a small degree because the Bible describes that God. Probably most clearly in the person of Jesus Christ. Perhaps you could tell Holly why you do not believe the description is accurate..

There is an account of a man Paul, aslo called Saul of Tarsus, who is faced by a similar assertion to yours when viisiting Athens.. He finds that the Athenians go possibly further than you might wish to go. They erected an altar and inscribed it (in Greek of course) "To the Unknown God". Paul then told the Athenians about this unknown God quoting one of their own poets.

I look forward to reading some more from you, Tina.

Cheers

i believe that we as a planet were the results from a explossion of another planet . life i am not sure how that started scenice has some good explanations but not sure they have it all correct.

the power of nature is so much stronger than man .why does water not freeze from the bottom up, by scince it should. 

faith can be noted as the simplist thing i know of a little girl who had a wart on her finger she saw her nans vanishing cream and asked if she could use it nan said she could and let her take it home in the week the wart had gone ,was it the cream or was it faith.

theres so many things in this world we do not understand so many religons which i do not even consider ,but others find comfort and that is fine bu tin my eyes religion is all about power and control .

i have faith that i get up each morning and the sun is in the sky might not be shinning much but its there , i have faith that the world is beautiful and magical and only mans greed and tendency towards violance makes it an unplesant place to be sometimes .

theres nothing stronger than natrue and as soon as man excepts this the better.  i believe that we each should stand in our own truth what ever we belive is so for us . i believe in honesty ,kindness, strenght and courage . i stand in my truth . and the right to believe in them.

 

Hi Tina

We have much in common. Yes amazing things happen just as you recount about the little girl and the vanishing cream. I am one with you in seeing religion as power and control. The source of power is the money the religion collects from the people over whom it exercises control. Yes, the sun rises and sets (we all speak of it that way) and almost never that earth rotates me into sunlight and rotates me in into night. Odd really. Few believe the sun actually rises and sets. Yes the world is beautiful and wonderful but those unpleasant attributes of so many of us, perhaps all of us at various times, spoil it. Yes, if we pit our strength against a volcano, or against gravity,  and so on we come off badly. Yes, I admire and praise people who exhibit kindness, strength and courage. But on truth we disagree. For me truth=truth; for you truth = my truth (whatever you accept as true ) Still, we have a great deal in common.

Cheers, George

when i talk of truth i mean if you believe that swearing or being cruel is wrong you should not be swayed by others to think differantly you should stand in your truth.

Thank you Tina. I agree most heartilly. Foul mindless language is unpleasant and should be resisted and discouraged. Cruelty is a terrible wrong both to an individual and to society. If we suffer for standing against such things we must bear it quietly and with patience, So even where I thought we disagreed you are able to show me yet another point of agreement.

do you like poetry?

one of my faverate poems is

IF by Rudyard Kipling

such good advice from father to son and even daughter.

Yes, I am familiar with that poem Tina. But no, unlike you and my wife, I prefer prose. Allegories, similies and metaphores go down well with me. I am impatient with peotry. So much packed away tight and needing to be teased out of their soul beguiling rythms and cadences. Strangely I love well crafted music. It is similar to poetry in reducing and packing away variations on a theme, so full of delight and interest. I adore  Mozart so sweet and seemingly simple yet filled to the brim with quiet subtilty and invention told in the sweetest sounds.

God teaches us all to have "faith" that God is God and his son died for all of our sins.  God doesn't acknowledge anyone in prayer if it isn't sent to him by his son, Jesus Christ.  So, faith is the answer and it clearly looks as though you have "faith". 

Frustrated

Hi Tina

Clearly it was the ointment.  Faith is different than that idea.  The ointment was created by man so that it will cure the wart.  You are talking about God and does he exist, that is where "faith" comes into play, you cannot see God, but you know there is a higher power, why?  Because you have  faith in your beliefs of God.  The ointment is just there to add some confusion to you but clearly it isn't confusing at all, it did what the label stated it did and that was to rid your body of a wart...don't confuse that as "faith".  The label was "trusted" by you to cure your wart.  See what I'm sayng?

Frustrated

Hi frustrated and Holly. I but in with diffidence but the problem clearly IS the ointment. I fear frustrated has not met this substance. First let me quote Holly's account of the little girl.

"faith can be noted as the simplist thing i know of a little girl who had a wart on her finger she saw her nans vanishing cream and asked if she could use it nan said she could and let her take it home in the week the wart had gone ,was it the cream or was it faith."

I remember oooo about 68-69  years ago. I was probably six at the time my mother had many pretty things on her dressing table, which was set in a bay-window with a view of the garden below. I would watch as she put on her creams and scents and lipstick and brushed her unruly black hair. One of the magical seeming pots contained Vanishing Cream. Often she would pick up a little dob on a finger try to dab it on my nose. I would dance away with shieks and giggles. This often repeated game was a merry joke. My mother didn't want her little boy to vanish. Nor was I likely to do so. The Vanishing Cream was a cold cream, a foundation cream to keep a lady's skin as soft and smooth as any mother's should be to her little son. It had the property of being absorbed quickly, of vanishing,. after being smoothed on. I had been told this at some forgotten time and we both enjoyed the familiarity of the joke.

The little girl appaparently was ingorant to the true properties of the cream and believed it would make her wart vanish. It was the placibo effect, faith,  that made the wart vanish.

So Holly is correct in her remarks about the little girl and faith. And so is frustrated in her general remarks about faith.

I must thank you for that misunderstanding. I haven't thought of those childhood games with my mother, it may well be in 68 years. Really a very happy reminiscence for me.

actuly hun that was my post tina .about the litte girl with the wart.

Sorry Tina.  Thank you for being gentle with me when correcting my error. George with the red cheeks.

i really dont know why i bother some times the

whole point of the story was the cream was not meant for removing warts

it was her nans face cream , but the faith of the child in the name vanishing cream  meant she had faith the wart would vanish and it did

 

Absolutely. We both have Vanishing Cream in our backgrounds. It seems that it was not called that in USA. I have not seen vanishing cream in decades. Is it still sold? I don't pay much attention to face cream products. (Probably need to but ....)

I had an experience years ago which gave me another slant on faith, also important. I switched on our vacuum cleaner in perfect assurance that it would work. I was surprised, shocked when it did not work. I found soon enough that I have not plugged it in. It came to me that faith unconnected to the will and power of God does nothing.

That makes the childlike assurance of faith more complex. The child used face cream. The wart dissapeared. From where was the power? Faith  is not power; it is confidence that power is available and will be used, in this case, to remove the wart.

 

i think women are more for poetry then man , man seem to be the quick fix types , you only have to listen to women on the phone to a friend and a man , i did read somewhere that men use far less words than women in conversation.

as well as fibro i have aspergers which is a form of high functioning autism , so i love poetry and music because i love words ,

some people with aspergers love numbers and are obsessed with them with me its words.quoutes ,film and TV diolouge . love words .

any word thats new to me have to look up the meaning ,

love all kinds of music but i really start with glen miller and the rat pack and jazz moving into rockand roll and soul and country rock and folk .

some of my favs are in the year 2525, universal soldier,soldier blue, eve of destruction , and midnight cowboy , its a wonderful world, broken hearted melody. il stop now because i could go on for ever.

Wonderful how varied we all are. and even in our variety we touch at various places. Even in  your limited list we have a point of contact. I love "Its a Wonderful World" sung by Scatchmo  Another point of contact, and one that is almost universal, is that when we are in the most dire trouble we look for help from outside our home and family and friends to whatever personal power is greatest and beyond the confines of our person universe.

i no some people just can't get the simplist explanation.

its like with this condition , i wont give in to meds or up on life although these things have crossed my mind from time to time because i am human and fallable.  but something keeps me strong ,

i believe its loved ones in spirit , one night i had 3 white russians vodka coffee liq and milk

but had forgotten about some antibiotecs i was taking , after i was so drunk i couldnt walk in a staright line i was at a friends house and had to walk down a small hill carrying my daughter who was asleep.

how i did it il never know.

i managed to get in , put my daughter to bed .

i was really struggling by now to stay up right i just wanted to sleep but knew i shouldnt,

i made it to the kitchen made to pints of black coffee half with cold water ,drank it straight down , went up stairs put my legs right up behind the knee on the bed with a bowl next to me this washed my stomach by being extremly and violantly sick .

now i was just 26 i had never been taught this or seen it done i just knew i had to do this , i slept up right all night and was ok in the morning ,if i had gone straight to bed i proberly would have choked on my vomt , i belive my loved ones in  spirit were with me .

wonderful world by scatchmo makes me cry and smile beautiful words .

I know the frustration you have in the seeming impossibility of getting your point across. We are each interpreting the world and some events that occur according to our understanding. The listener is trying to understand what they hear you say according to the view point and understanding they have. The two seldom fit. It is exactly the same for me.

I could tell you of an angelic black cab that got me out of trouble. It makes perfect sense to me. You might say to yourself "Let me see if I can make some sense out of this". Others might say i must be drunk or a loony. All we can do is to say it as we see it and not be distressed if our listeners are puzzeled, sceptical or totally unimpressed.

Please do not think that I think that your impressions and interpretations are not real. I accept that they are. My difficulty is that I have to try to fit them into my view of the world and that, in even more tricky, to my view of the spiritual relm.

i would be very interested in your black cab story.

iv excepted that people are all differant and understand in diffeant ways

if i dont agree with someone than i will say lets agree to difer

if i dont quite understand what some one is saying i ask them to explin it differntly i suppose being on the autistic scale i sometimes find things are explained in a to complex way . and  a simplified  explanation often does the trick

I seldom drive in London and when do I hate it. I entered London from the west and knew my route to Wapping but nothing else. I got as far as Picadilly. There the traffic pressed me. Could not turn south towards the Thames. I was forced to go straight ahead. Then disaster! the road turned north. I would be lost. In panic I prayed to the Lord God in Jesus name. There was nothing but traffic rushing Northward. Nowhere to turn back. "Follow the black cab" The tought was in my mind as clear as anything can be. I knew instantly it was the black cah just infront of the car ahead of me. It turned right. I had not noticed there was any turning. I followed but the cab joined the flow southward. It was a moment of agony. I would loose my guide. The Southward flow had stopped for the light 50 yards up the road. Gratefully I hurried round. There was the black cab. And there was the Embankment. I was saved. The black cab turned east. The rest of the traffic west. I hurrdied on, the lights stayed green. A moment later I was travelling eastward. There was no vehicle at all for a quarter mile where they waited at lights. There was no black cab; just me in a quarter mile of empty road. 

I concluded then and still do. An angel in the form of a black cab had rescued me.

i think that is wonderful and see no reason not to believe you .

iv had some very strange this happen to me.

my faverate xmas film is its a wonderful life

when he asks for help and is sent clarence the childlike angel

well u proberly no the story . he got the help but not in the way he expected .wonderful film.

Thank you tiny. Our ideas on angels are largely locked into the stereo types of androginous hunamoids in long white robes  and a pair of white bird wings stuck on its back. As they are spiritual beings they can presumably take any appearance that suits their purpose.

Sorry Tina for that typo.  No edit on this forum. from red face again George

Hi George

There is no need to "repost" what someone else posted as I clearly got that message.  However, she did state at the bottom of that paragraph "was it the cream or was it faith"...not aware that was  rhetorical question in terms intended to persuade or impress.  Therefore I gave my opinion on what I thought about that situation.  I'm bowing out of this discussion. 

Holly ~  I hope through all the different ideas by George and Tina, you find your answer.  Good question you arised. 

Take care holly and all,

Frustrated

Tina ~

You don't know why you bother sometimes?  What is that supposed to mean?  A half nice/mean attempt to put someone in their place?  Is this not a discussion that all are included to put their input?  That being the case, I'll accept the fact that I clearly do not belong in this discussion and will allow you to put your input as much as possible.  Hopefully, you won't lose tract that Holly clearly asked a question and this is clearly not being directed to that particular feat.

Frustrated

i believe so .i heard a story from a neighbour about an retired couple who had been happly married for 40yrs when the wife was took sick and died

before she died she told her husband not to worry she would send someone for him to take care of.

a week after her death her husband was sat in the armchair  looking out at terriable rain pounding down ,

when he heard some little crys he went to the french windows and looked out there sat a little black kitten trenched looking up ,the husband had a long term dislike of cats tried to ignore it

. the kitten just sat there getting wetter and wetter , the husband relented and open the door . the cat ran in and shock her self and curled up on his wifes chair they have been firm friends ever since.

coincedence an angel who knows .

Thanks for your help guys much appreciated x 

sorry about the repeat posting not sure why it has posted it 3 times

strange things have been happening on this forum like slow texting

and missing out letters.

 

frustrared

i was clearly trying to say that faith comes to us in differant ways 

you made the statement that it was obvious it was the cream .

why would it be obvious when the cream was a face cream .

if it had been meant for warts then of course it would be obvious .

i just thought it was an ilogical statement . but then i do have a aspergers syndrome which gives me a very logical out look on things .

 

I'm not going to do tit for tat but you clearly did state that you nan had "vanishing cream"...not "face cream".   I believe there would have been more conversation with regards to this fourm if "clearly" things were stated just as you meant.  Aspergers.  I'm sorry to hear this.

However, if you want to "put" someone in their place, perhaps re-read your original post before doing so.  You'll see all your contradictions.

This is why I bowed out of this discussion as anything I add would be a challenge.  

I guess it's hard these days for someone to just say "I'm sorry".  Oh well, it is what it is.

Frustrated

When the system starts to fail you get the signs of lagging and words being typed out but not appearing.  Then the system freezes and when that happens, you tend to press reply over and over.  I've done this myself and have had repeated posts.  Just an explanation as to why this happens.

Regards,

Frustrated

vanishing cream is face cream used to make wrinkles soften and look like they disapeared .hence the name vanishing cream . your proberly to young to remember such products ,

i have been on this forum for months and not had any problem with anyone understanding what iv written  hence my rateings badge . for being helpful .

but you have got what you wanted i am no longer going to post . any more advice or suupport because i really cant be bothered any more .i just dont need the hassel .

Tina...that is not what I want.  Not at all.  Sometimes w/o being able to see the other person, it's hard to write exactly what one feels.  Don't allow anyone or anything or any misunderstanding to change you from posting.  I was merely stating that reason I replied to your original post regarding the "cream",  it left me with confusion as you kept adding something in replies and I clearly couldn't see it.  It's not that big of a deal.  Please, lets just agree to disagree and get on with posting as it is a healthy part of us healing.  Okay?

Thank you

Frustrated

  Jeez!  I just wrote a long post and poof, it's gone.  But I will try to repost best as I can.

We didn't call face cream, vanishing cream.  Although I like that concept, it makes sense.  I'm just stating this because there clearly is a difference with our thinking because I'm in the US and we haven't had any kind of vanishing cream, just "wrinkle remover" lol  

Anyway, perhaps to clear anyone from being confused, I learned as a writer, one has to state everything out so there isn't any confusion.  You do not want to confuse the reader.  You might have been able to do this by adding "vanishing cream, which is a face cream designed to remove/soften wrinkles".  Yes, it's longer but you see, there wouldn't have been any room for this miscommunication.  And that's all it was, a miscommunication, right?

I love the face that you even mentioned "young" and were referring to me  lol  I'm 61, hardly young.  But young at heart, yes.  Thank you for that little chuckle!  Just know that I'm in no way in an competition with anyone on this site.  Everyone counts.  So, if you wouldn't mind, could we put this behind us and please continue to post.  You have much to add as well as I do.

Warm regards,

Frustrated

well they say you shouldnt discuse politics or religion dont they .maybe there rigth.

yes someone else told me that in the states vanishing cream was called something eles ,

. maybe its because i dont have any problems with with understanding differant accents by phone or conversation [,i once spoke to a women on the phone who had rang me about my aspergers son ]

and had to stop her and say , australian, newzealand, and south african

your acent a mixture of

, yes she said i was born in australia, and lived in the other two places

.  i also know a lot about social history

so although iv never have seen a pot of vanishing cream i certainly no of its excistence ,i suppose i presume others do as well .which i know its wrong but .i suppose its a fault of mine.

i never read anything other than auto biographes of all sorts of people

and social history . all books have to be factul its just the way i am wired .so i tend absorb all kinds of ridiculous facts that other people miss

like in steptoe and son , your version was sanford and son ,

harold stated that in 1962 4 million people in the uk didnt have a bathroom . that was 2yrs after i was born .

i know this has nothing to do with your reply but i just wanted to tell you that an aspergers brain works differant its like a  big sponge and sometimes we forget others dont think like us . i am pretty much MR Spock from star treck . except i do have a sense of humour  . although in  a british comedy that you proberly never heard of in the USA [Bottom] there was a joke that took me 10 yrs to get . so i am a bit dum sometimes .  

 

Thank you for that!  All is good, right?

cheers, i agree with you

and i hope all is good now ?

 

LOL Holly, I'm always good.  Just simple misunderstandings can lead to hurtful words or worse, someone threatening to leave all because of a written misunderstanding.  But it seems it's all good with me and hopefully with Tina as well.

hopefully, she'll determine her side

Mozilla has an add-on for Firefox - textarea cache option - that covers all those posts, long or short, that so irritatingly disappear for some odd reason. Everything you type using your browser gets caught in this cache and is there to be selected and re-posted. So if you are using FF this is one good add-on which saves all the hassle of typing into wordpad or whatever then copy/pasting into a window.

I only do the copy/paste.  I never use anything other than this site for things pertaining to this site.  To me, if I had to write into wordpad then transfer it over, I'd stop writing altogether, that's too much of a hassle.

Thank you for your input as it is reassuring.

Frustrated

I believe we all to some extent suffer from Tower of Babel syndrom. That is, an inability to express our message orally or in writing so it cannot be misunderstood. (Say  "No" to your child. Seldom if ever is there a perfect meeting of minds.) For myself I take it as a settled axium that the communicator is 100% responsible for ensuring his/her message is recived and understood correctly. My wife takes the opposite view. I leave you to guess who is the more often dissappointed.

Well, sorry to Anne, but I agree with you, Doc.  It's up to the writer to make things clear enough not to confuse the reader.  Was taught that many, many years ago and I try hard to apply this to everything I write.  I make mistakes and always will but for the most part, I'm leaving a message for people to understand.  Hopefully that is what happens.

Frustrated

Thank you Tina. I have a cousin I am very fond of who has a mind like yours. She never forgets anything. And a dear friend who has a mind like yours in a lot of ways but with some differences. There are minds like mine that think literally , 'black and white' . I am always getting into trouble with those who think in relative terms, a million shades os gray. And so on. In one way of thinking, no wonder the world is so full of cobflict. In another what richness of thought all these minds with all their differences produce. And we are blessed with a microcosm of that richness on this forum. It makes me pause in wonder at the thought.

Could you maybe transfer this conversation to private message, to save clogging up this discussion just a thought 

Yes, quite right Holly. Thank you for reminding me.

I find it so tragic when someone does leave. There is no way left to sooth their hurt and gentle them back to this community. They suffer taking an uncurable hurt. We suffer not just sorrow but the loss of all they might have contributed. I know that should I in a desperate gloom shame myself by some foolishness and leave in my shame I should loose a resource that has prooved itself already three times as crucial in calling and soothing me back to my proper cheerful self. To leave for me would be like a mini suicide. And that might really enhance the danger of self destruction - a desperate course I do not believe to be right morally, but. .....