confused about god..

Well said, Jaguar!

Couldn't agree more

Frustrated

Thank you x 

Hi Jaguar,

Yes that seems a reasonable take. On the other hand, may be the Creator did tell Moses about it. It is not entiely implausable, but not proovable either.

Do you really imagine that Moses or anyone else would have kept quiet? Then do not overlook the fact that Moses came from one of those tribes that each had their own god. Ignorance is only to be expected at a time when knowledge was so retarded. Any of us could have believed anything in those olden days simply because of the level of ignorance.

You have made a sinsible point. That good sense does not rest on mine being .... what shall i say ... absurd? In my point of view, which in no way need be used to damage yours. Moses did not keep quiet but wrote it down in the book to which you have referred. The other point you make is a reasonable take on history and mythology. I accept that. My take happens to be different but again it in no way dammages your point of view. It is just different. Moses was trained in the best schools/university of ancient Egypt where the Pharaohs were trained. Moses  was, in my take, a very well trained scholar. Four script systems were taught and used at that time in ancient Egypt, the leading civilisation of that era..

Thank you, I'm sorry to hear about your nephew, wife and brother

I believe a LOT as Les does and I'm 76, went thru various religiions after I left catholism and do LOVE the principles of Science of Mind....

The glass is Half Full vs Half Empty.....just how a person see's the glass. 

I also never read a bible and never plan to...memorized prayers during my catholic years but that's been it.....

My dad finally told me on his death bed at almost 96,  that he never believed, mom was a staunch religious person.....that's all she knew and did reach out so guess it worked for her.   

My next door neighbor is a born again and told me a while back, if I didn't believe, I'd burn....well, we barely talk anymore.....she locks herself in her apt with her bibles.....

Well, I said a bit and guess I needed to talk a bit.   Joy 76 US

I didn't raise my daughter who is 51 in any religion so don't know what she believes today nor her two teenagers...I know she's gotten a lot of spirital works via AA, so she teaches her children those principles too....

Keep It Simple.......

Hello Joy,

I think the half glass business is all to do with context. So is our omptimism and prudence.

I find I agree with you too on religion. It is not the task of Christians to threaten and browbeat their neighbours but to love them. They are obliged o share the good news that Christ has died, Christ was buried, Christ is risen. Well that doesn't seem very oppressive. Just some dry historical facts. Some find it good news. I do, others don't. Certainly no reason not to love a neighbour. You know Joy, that sometimes the good kindly sense of a non Christian neighbour should put Christians to shame. My sorrow is that all too often it does not. 

I think at a certain age when a person loses their partner, they turn to God - that is what I have noticed many times over the decades.

 

My father did some strange things after he lost my mother, to me it was abnormal, but to this day I think there was more to it than what he was letting on. About 2 years it started after he lost my mother - he would phone the hospital saying he felt really ill, well I knew he was one of these people that would look in a Health book read the symptoms and read them over the phone to the hospital. Of course this went on for months, each time a ambulance was sent to his premises and took him in - now that on one day stopped, he actually dressed himself in his pyjamas, packed his suitcase and 'flagged' down the ambulance with his walking stick - this was at around 2am in the morning!!

After a while the hospital got wise to his antics and could see why he was doing this - he was lonely, and made friends via going to the hospital, not the church – we never asked him why, perhaps it was his way of dealing with his loss.

 

It did come to a point whereby he was having major surgery for cancer, but he hardly let anyone on that he was suffering, until one week before he died, my wife and I got him in to a residential home where he could be cared for properly, less than a week later he passed away. He never mentioned God or Jesus after losing my mother 4 years earlier. He died in the worse possible mix-up I've ever seen in my life - his health records were not sent to the residential home, so when he passed away the paramedic sent out had no history about him. So, he attempted numerous times to bring him back - not knowing if this man dies at any time not to resuscitate him (because he was riddled with cancer which started from Colon Cancer) When my wife and I arrived, we seen the face of agony and pain that he must of went through on his face, and the huge bruises on his chest from the electronic pads used at the time. It took me ages to get over it. And because I was the eldest in the family, it meant my wife and I had to do all the paperwork tied up in the property. It felt like we were going through someone’s memories, which we both thought was wrong. I suppose everyone has to do it at some point, it was just the first time I had to with my wife.

If there was a God or Jesus, surely the way my father passed away would have been avoided, and not left as an administrative error, and people wonder why I have no beliefs whatsoever. My mother and father brought us up with respect, and treated my brother and myself the same. The way my father left this world was terrible, I would not wish that on my worse enemy.

From my father’s reaction when my mother died he turned to the hospital, not God or Jesus, which surprised me considering I only knew that he went to church every Sunday with my mother, until she passed away.

i know what your saying both my dad and grandad died in a way that i would not wish on my worst enemy, my dad at home with supposed home care from the same as your father, just wasted away, he had a nurse at night that wouldnt even make him a cup of tea had to wait till the morning and my brother to come round.

my granddad had a fall and triggerd lymph cancer type only normaly found in a young person the did a big op on his arm which led it to being strapped up and hooked up so he couldnt use it , he was so doped up he couldnt speak  when my nan and i went to visit , and to top it all they brought his food and put it where he couldnt reach it , so he never opened his bowls for several days from lack of food

,so they gave him a strong laxative whiich made him mess him self because he couldnt get out of bed because his arm was in a sling on a pulley , not only was this a big dent in his dignity , but they sent his pyjammas home for my nan to wash ,it was there fault . put together with many many bad things iv seen myself in hospitals thats the last place i want to go  . 

the care is not there like it was there are some excellant doctors and nursing staff but there are many who just do not do there job properly.

when a trainee nurse gets asked to fetch a sick bowl and the reply is iv been to universty i dont do vomit . i think we are in for a very big decline of care. as for god he did give us free will so should we blame him. idont know ,  but  i think we should have some faith .in the universe and its power ,  

Which Gulag?  . . . . I wish, how I wish I was just joking. Your account brings tears to my eyes. How could anyone be so uncaring. And to take money for it. I suppose they sleep at night, but they shouldn't. There is one who says "vengance is mine." I trust him to do as he says, unless . . .

Dear Tiswas,

I was on my own at lunch today. I wept quietly through my meal. Now I have reread Les's note. So much misery. 

Dear Les, 

You have days ago asserted that you have not read the Bible. You seem doubtful that there is a God of any sort. So it is not very persuasive to blame the God of the Bible, Jesus. Why not blame men or mankind. Their failings you have set out before us. They do seem to be blame worthy.

Hi George,

Perhaps I should take a "gander" (Look!) at the Bible George - it's when I look back over the decades all I see is things have become worse, nothing ever goes right, and our current Gov't is just making this country the worse possible place to live in.

It makes no sense to me at all, let's look at the tabacco statistics:

In 2009/10 tax year it was estimated to be £10.9 billion.

Estimated cost to the NHS in same year was £5 billion, with another £2 billion to employers.

Back then I used to smoke, I gave it up 3 years ago, but that was partially my doing, and the surgeon that said he did not want to see me again, I have seen him again, but that was for a follow up appointment and he knows what I am like, "see, I'm back!" he recognized me and laughed.

The government wants people to give up smoking, yet their biggest profit comes from cancer related diseases. To me that is total BS!! Then again the current is getting severe blows from every angle possible.

Yes, my father gave up smoking as well, 17 years before he died. It was difficult telling my wife that I thought I had cancer, we told our children that I just had to spend a few nights in hospital, it was easier on them. I only told them the full story when I was released. My daughter was only 8 years old at the time, it hit her harder than the two boys - but she seems to have a strong bond with me, unless she's ill then it's mother time. lol - shes 14 now, and still questions us if we even mention hospital because she associates 'death' with them.

I think George why I don't believe there is a 'God' is because of numerous things that have happened over the years.

My wife and I, used to babysit for my sister-in-law's children, a girl aged 2 and a boy aged just 14 months. It was just after Christmas about 22 years ago now, both of then were giggling and laughing and we're all having fun. Gave them their tea, and we noticed my nephew was not acting his normal self, within ten minutes he was unconscious - we had already phoned for an ambulance. So, from 6pm until around 9pm he had gone from a playfull boy to unconscious, and in an Intensive care unit, by midnight he was gone, just the machines keeping him alive, sad to say. His parents decided to have the life support machine turned off by about 4am. It all happened so quickly and well under 12 hours to see a child pass away so quick was unreal. He was announced brain-stem dead by 4am.

Did the bad luck finish there.... no...

Our niece kept asking where her brother had gone, her mother said he's gone to heaven. My sister-in-law was still trying to get over what had happened, and her daughter was coming out with more questions - one that finally hit many people that day was "Mum, when you have your new baby, will I go to heaven to see my brother?" - she, thought she had to die because her mother was close to giving birth again. I remember that day, for a long time, it's not something you would expect from a small girl - she had counselling for many years because the boy she sat next to in school died about 6 months later. All that stress she was getting over, just went straight back to her asking more questions about her brother.

My wife was pregnant at the time we lost our nephew, which under all the stress caused a miscarriage. We were lucky to have 3 children in the end.

I'll write a bit more later, George....thats really brought back some memories...

Regards,

Les.

I did reply George but it went straight to moderation - why, I don't know - it had no external links or advertising or any kind..

I know. It's very perplexing. The computer whips it away. I feal like a naughty schoolboy when it happens to me. A day or two ago I used a prohibited word. The moderator changed a vowel to a star and the restored the message. It will be Monday before I see your message.

George, I heard it all with the christ born, died, risen, etc.....the devil, hell, heaven....heard it all.   fear, guilt, etc...

Don't buy it anymore....read too much science stuff in the last 20 yrs and met a lot of other people with mindsets I never knew.   Joy

The 10 commandments make a lot of sense to me in my life.....

As for goverments, they do good and they do a LOT of not good....we have to live with it and pick and choose our battles and don't drive ourselves crazy trying to change things....the young people THANKFULLY are organizing as their's is the future....   I did my share of activism work when I had energy and much younger but have to LET GO as much as possible and do my own healing as best I know how.....don't depend on the pharma industry....and I never smoked, so good sense in my middle name.....

My grandkids dad 55, died last year, he smoked too long.....I believe his life has served as an example to his two children....I HOPE.....Joy

Dear Les, 

The world is a hard and wicked place. I have grown very cynical as so much appears to get worse and worse. I expect it will be worse yet. People will want someone to put things back together. But he will prove to be a bad self-seaker. All too ghastly.. And then the misery of your account. So much, yet it is not so exceptional. Other families seems to run along smoothly. From our perspective it seems without rhyme or reason. Often it is the bad uys who do well, living long, opulant lives and some good guy, cold and starving. 

George

Yes, that's it. I buy it , you do not. I will not love you the less. We are sharing our disprate ideas rather than striving for dominance.

ah, now the message shows...this forum must have some weird setup to block what I typed, it did not fit in to category listed why messages are moderated, oh well guess that's their prerogative - some thing must of flagged it.

Anyway, back to reality, so to speak!

I cannot remember whom told me this but with over 4,200 religions worldwide, and only one God, it's religions that cause wars. I wouldn't agree with that entirely, okay religions may cause wars, but there must be a dominance figure in the future. I think it will eventually be one ruler, one religion (if allowed), since knowledge and logic will be playing major factors.

I read in the news recently more scripts were found that were missing from the bible - and now they are translated, surely they would have been missed previously, or the bible would make no sense. How do you know that how the Bible was translated correctly? Surely, with over 4,200+ religions, how do I you know which is correct or incorrect? I guess this is the point where wars derive from the Bible, since there are so many versions.

I not the type of person that just looks at any book and reads it, to attract me to any book it must be something that I would benefit from as in technical, or something that proves that something else can be done. When I say I have never read it, I know parts but it is beyond me when so many people criticize it, even at the start. I have often heard about Adam and Eve, neither of which had 'belly-buttons' and then there is another part whereby, sex within the family is seen as normal -  whether this is true I do not know, since I have not read it - it's only what people depict from their understandings. My brother, well he's a religion to himself - he thinks everything is "Evil". By this I mean, he has a large flat screen TV, never turned on because it is alll evil. Games consoles his son was given for Xmas one year, again evil so he smashed it up with a hammer so the evil would not spread! No radios in the house, no newspapers, his son has such a restricted access to the internet it is unreal. Found comics in his attic, so he burnt them, the list is ridiculous. And his son's school wonders why his son is so behind in all subjects.

Okay, when I left school I was already working and going back to school taking 'O' Levels, back then they had to be paid for, so my mum and dad paid for them knowing I would pass them easily. My brother was the total opposite of me, left school with no exam passes at all, lived on the dole for about 3 years before getting a job as a postman, then he got fired from his job for stealing peoples credit and debit cards, he nearly got sent to jail, but instead he was fined £40. He never learnt his lesson he re-applied for his job back, of course that didn't work either, then he moved 120 miles away and tried again with the same company, this time he even had the gaul to ask why!! He got busted 2 more times after that for shoplifting, then he stopped, so say the Devil was asking him to do it all, that included drugs and alcohol, nearly killed himself on three occassions. I tried many times to ask him why he was doing such stupid things in his life, and out of the blue he said I am a reborn again Christian. Well, from that he married a lesbian, had a baby that went through hell, but not from my brother - this time it was his wife! Their marriage lasted 17 years, she left him when he gave £30,000 away to someone in the USA, whom was well known in the USA for Scams. At the moment he's going through the divorce and also tied up in a scam in the USA for millions of dollars.

I think he is iis own worst enemy, and will never learn - I have tried many times not to touch these get rich quick schemes, but he carries on and ignores me. His son, I haven't got a clue - his upbringing has been terrible and not being allowed to even watch TV, how is he supposed to even learn anything. Everything I have mentioned he says is evil, so I cannot win.

I seem to be the total opposite to him, I'm down to earth and get on socially with most people, regardless of who they are or look like, my brother is unable to even hold a chat with anyone. Perhaps it stems back to school, or something I don't know about I'm not sure.

I'll finish this tomorrow the tramadol is kicking in and I'm falling asleep!

Regards,

Les.

Dear Les

I agree with so much that you write. I am NOT in favour of religions and I mean all of them. The Lord Jesus Christ who is God the creator of the universe did not command his followers to form religions or churches (group 1 below). He commanded them to make disciples. The distinction is absolute and confusion arises because of the different use of words.

Religion essentially means obedience to some regulation or regulatory system.

The meanings of church falls into two different groupings

(1a) An enclesiatical meeting house often with styalised archetecture

(1b) An eclesiastical organisation with a managing hierarchy

(1c) A political organisation with a managing hierarchy

(2a) A temporary gathering of disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ, minimum 2 persons

(2b) The disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ in their totality

Disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ are those who are taught to observe the precepts of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I would understand that you were writing of class 1b type churches. Your brother would seem to be free range and sounds as if he is most unhappy.

George