Curious why the most recommended Gout treatments are not working for me.

Look up EU Natural on the internet, or just do a Gout search on Amazon. It's a capsule containing primarily Celery Seed and Tart Cherry extract with other stuff. Mainly a maintenance supplement as far as I can determine. But at this stage I'll try anything recommended, and this one was one of the highest recommended supplements (non-medical).

Hi Nick,

Attack started on 2/9/17 and has FINALLY started to subside this morning (2/22/17). I have taken a few Ibupeofens since this episode began but have to be very careful with NASIDs as they will interact with the AFIB medication I'm temporarily on.

As you have a heart condition everything must be treated carefully as I'm sure you are aware.

Had a long chat with both my cardiologist and my pharmacist regarding both the meds for my AFIB condition and the Colchicine as I've been a mega dosage user of vitamins and supplements for at least 55 years. I started immediately after I became familiar with Dr. Linus Pauling's study on Vitamin C. I took a gram a day of C and several other vitamins and supplements for many years and never had as much as a cold for many, many years. A recurring lower back pain prompted my Osteopath to order a complete rheumatology study which identified RA. And that's kinda strange because I don't have any of the normal effects of RA except the expected creaks and groans of a hard used 82 year old body! Of course the Gout is certainly related to arthritis. Oh well, this too shall pass!

Linus Pauling's 1970 theory on vitamin C have been convincingly debunked in numerous large scale double blind studies. While Pauling received the Nobel Prize for chemistry his hypothesis about vitamin C was outside his area of expertise, and not based on research; it did however sell a lot of books and made him very wealthy.

Yes, but he also lived to about 100 years old. I met him when I was a kid, still remember it too because I thought he was a great mentor too. After I met him I wanted to be a doctor. Although, that didn't come to fruition, I was close enough being in the medical field. I do have to admit, there's something about vitamin c, that when I drink it, it cured me of whatever malady I might be going through, other than gout attacks and dehydration. So perhaps it depends on body type. Who knows but I believe Linus was on to something with vitamin c. What type of studies were done to debunk his theories?

Like you, I've been a proponent of 'C' for years as I believe (in my case at least) that it's use (along with several other vitamins and supplements) I regularly imbibe have a marked effect on my health and well being. I do not believe these effects are psychosomatic but rather evidence of actual intervention. Regardless, in my personal history of viitamin and supplement usage I've seen positive results.

Same here Olly. A few years back I had fluid in my ears, with pain, I had somewhat of a cold, my doctor believed it was viral. He gave me packets of vitamin c 1000 to take twice a day. Worked like a charm, nowadays when I start feeling under the weather, I take his recommended vitamin c dosage with 3000ou's of vitamin d, and it all goes away next day as if never had anything.

Linus Pauling lived to 93. At the age of 65 his scientific standing was as high as it is possible to be. By the time of his death, his reputation was in shreds, shredded perhaps by senility, refusing to accept that he was wrong about his increasingly ludicrous claims about vitamin C curing everything from colds and warts to cancer, and everything in between. It is an example of how when an individual has access to the media a myth can be formed despite all the scientific evidence. A more modern example is the autism-vaccine link proposed with fraudulent evidence by Andrew Wakefield. Both Wakefield and Pauling killed large numbers. Wakefield by reducing the numbers of children protected by vaccines and Pauling by all the people that refused treatment for cancer believing that high dose vitamin C would save them.

You make some very good points. On 2/1/17 my PCP noticed atrial flutter when I went in for a EKG that was required for a scheduled hernia operation - he put me on Metoprolol Tartrate (Beta Blocker) because he was afraid I'd stroke out if he ddin't get the heart rate stablized. He was aware I'd had a single episode of AFIB over 5 years ago with no recurrence since then, and not on any medication. Eight days later ( 2/9/17) I experienced a severe gout attack which is still not completely 'healed'. I researched the Beta Blocker I was taking and found it has a rare side effect of causing severe Gout. And that, I believe, is what caused my problem. My catrdiologist changed the Beta Blocker to a Calcium Channel Blocker (Diltiazem), and put me on Colchicine to try and get the gout under control, in addition to other medication to stabilize my heart rate. Amazing, but one can have minor flutter and not realize it's a problem. On the other hand, I have no choice but to effect some major lifestyle changes - two beers a night and several Ginger Ales a week are now a thing of the past (LoL)...

silverback, you make some interesting points. However, uric acid crystals can be found in urine. I know this from working under microscopes looking at urine samples when necessary. I worked in medicine, in research and as a physician assistant.

I'd like to emphasize that everyone metabolize's purines differently. Maybe for you it's shellfish, where for me, I can eat it without an issue. In fact, I eat shellfish at least once a week if not more when I can. What sets off my gout is eating wheat, herring, spinach and HFCS. Yes, listening to your body and sensing how it reacts is crucial for maintaining a balanced metabolism when one suffers from gout.

Uric acid crystals are of varying sizes and shapes, found in acidic urine. They resemble rhomboids, parallelograms, and rosettes in shape and are amber in color. Though they are seen in normal urine, are also an indicator of disease processes, such as acute uric acid nephropathy or urate nephrolithiasis.

Yes, rusty have seen them all. Thing is doctor's when they see it they go by if ain't broken don't try to fix it. If kidney function mg/DL come in abnormal then they refer the patient to a nephrologist, otherwise they try to treat the patient if it hasn't gone chronic.

Colcrys is a brand name of colchecine used by one company only in the USA.

The US government has given one company a monopoly on its production and distribution, thus making several billionaires who I'm sure were suitably grateful to the government officials involved. Consequently today colchecine is used less in the US compared to the rest of the world because its cost and because it isn't covered by insurance plans in most cases.

However according to the Mayo clinic website today Colchecine is first level pharmaceutical against gout.

In the past the regime used was one tablet to be taken every hour for six hours. Under this regime from memory 80% got diarrhoea. Used more conservatively it is reduced to 20%. The point at which diarrhoea is triggered is individual.

If your family are taking allopurinol and are still getting gout attacks it is because either they did not follow the protocol for the removal of gout reserves in their system, or they have allowed these reserves to build up again, and need to be on a higher dose for a time.

Dehydration will trigger gout and is thus a reason why we should all drink water. We need to produce at least 2 liters of urine a day. For most people the reason we have gout is that our kidneys aren't excreting enough uric acid; in 10% it's over production. Another cause of dehydration is those who are regularly drinking alcohol.

While analysis of the synovial fluid is the gold standard to decide whether the patient has gout or pseudogout, most of the time it is not necessary, especially as there is a small risk of complications from the test itself. Gout and pseudogout tend to hit different patients. Their symptoms are different and the joints impacted tend to be different.

Colchecine has changed its name in the USA not elsewhere. The US government has given one company a monopoly on its production and distribution, thus making several billionaires who I'm sure were suitably grateful to the government officials involved. Consequently today colchecine isn't used much in the US compared to the rest of the world because its cost and because it isn't covered by insurance plans in most cases.

As for food as a trigger for gout, only 15% of purines in the body come from gout. Concentrating on purines in the diet is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. What is needed is management of uric acid levels. If uric acid is under control then food is a minor issue at most. The exception to this is fructose and high fructose corn syrup which raise blood urate levels significantly within 15 mins of ingestion. Those on high sugar diet (or high alcohol) won't get blood urate under control and will tend to attack gout attacks.

Here in Florida my prescription is written specifically  for Colchicine, and is labeled as such. The generic version is labeled in tiny letters on the container as Common Brand(s): Colcrys, manufactured by Prasco Labs. I use CVS as my pharmacy of choice, but depending where you're located, thatmay not relate to anything. 

I'd be interested to know what it costs you - the colchecine?

As for Coca Cola's Sierra Mist, I have read that as of December 15 it put back to high fructose corn syrup.

Why not just drink carbonated water and add some lemon slices.

Sierra Mist has the equivalent of 6 spoonfuls of sugar. It may be better to curb a sweet tooth for long term health.,

My co-pay was $47.00 which says the overall cost is over $200.00 for a 30 day supply (60 tablets). You're absolutely correct, the cost is outrageous and like you say, the results of a monopoly. I've seen the same extremely high costs with the blood thinner (Xarelto) my PCP prescribed that I had my cardiologst change to Eliquis. I didn't take the first one because of the nasty side effects (possible uncontrolled bleeding), however, Eliquis has some of the same side effects but can be controlled.  I'll get off these drugs (including the Calcium Channel Blocker) once the cardiologist gets my heart chambers synched up again. It required a cardioversion the last time, but it worked for 5 years so at 82 that would probably get me to the happy hunting grounds (LoL)...

As u know, that's my drink of choice. Seltzer with fresh lemon. I buy the seltzer by the case and the lemons by the bag. After awhile it becomes your drink of choice. I can't stand water lol. So, even though I brought my numbers down to 4.7 and take 300mg Allopurinol a day, I woke up in the middle of the night with a flareup in my heel (insert every curse word)!! What's up with that? I thought if I took my meds it wouldn't happen 😪

Hi Nancy

Questions: a) I won't ask a lady her weight, but what is your BMI?

b) how long have you been treated with colchecine?

c) how long since the attack previous to this one?

d) has your weight been stable?

My BMI IS 32 which I know is high. I take Allopurinol. My last attack was November 10th until December 22nd. My weight has been the same for years. The flareup has always been in my big toes. Today it's under my ankle on the side of my heel. I woke up with the pain!

I'd make couple of comments. 85% of purines come not from diet but from catabolism (our own body cells being recycled). Therefore the best way to reduce purines is reducing body weight. Second at 32 you almost certainly have fatty liver (the same as 20+ westerners). Fatty liver not only interfere with our metabolism of fats - keeping us fat, but it contributes to causing gout. If you dropped your body weight 10-15% your gout would improve as your fatty liver healed.

Since you have been taking allopurinol have you been 1 year without an attack?

That should read 20%plus!

No, I went without an attack from December 22 until today. The gout has been for a year only. I agree 100% with what you say. It's doing it is the problem. I get in a comfort zone and then lose focus on what I'm supposed to be doing.

Hi Nancy

If you have only been on allopurinol a year, what you could be seeing is the uric acid crystals stored in your tissues being washed from your tissues. This is normal and can continue up to a couple of years more. Eventually when there's nothing left, attacks will stop and you can go into a maintenance dose of allopurinol. I don't know if you know but during an attack we need to flush through our kidneys at least two liters - that's not drink that urinate....that's a lot.

Be aware too that dieting is a form of catabolism (eating your own cells) and can trigger gout attacks but will help long term.

Good info. Thanks Rusty.

Seltzer water, or any kind of carbonated water, in gout patients, causes dehydration. Happened to me twice, I ended up in the Emergency room, with dehydration. My kidneys were suffering too. My flare up was in my calcaneous/heel area and I also started getting a bunion. After an IV drip of fluids, it all went away. Since then I have avoided drinking carbonated waters, but it's been hard because like you I disliked plain water. Now, I'm opting for adding fruits to my water, let it sit for about 2 hours then start drinking it.

My bmi is 22, doctor says I'm under weight, ha! I still think I'm fat!

Why would carbonated water cause dehydration? All it is is H2O plus carbon dioxide in the form of gas?

You are both wrong. A BMI is absolutely perfect. Doctors are probably so used to dealing with overweight people that slim now starts to look skinny!

Your BMI not A BMI. Why do they not allow editing?

No idea, but I was told not to drink by several doctors many years ago. I had forgotten about it, started drinking it and next thing I know I'm in the hospital. Not once or twice but about 4 times after consuming it as my regular drink. It didn't hit me to stop drinking until the last time when the pain in my kidneys really made me think about it. I was drinking Perrier, Crystal geyser sparkling water and Calistoga. No more

All research shows that carbonated water hydrates as well as uncarbonated water. The only slight difference is that carbonated water gives a feeling a fullness, (useful if dieting), which may cause a person to drink slightly less. As long as one is aware of this there is no difference.

Oh boy, this is not good news for me. My kidneys aren't all that great anyway. I suppose I can do the fruit infusion with water!! Thanks for the info 😊